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Thread: One Piece 683 Discussion

  1. #121
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    law can't even escape because vergo would destroy the sad room. they have to beat him,but maybe law already took some "sad" before vergo arrived.

  2. #122
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Gorgias's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Being aware of Monet's background (that she's threatened by DoFla) I can't imagine that Ruffy has the intention to "defeat" her.

    And I don't like the situation that Ruffy is kinda "out of business". And neither the fact that a guy like him couldn't escape this basement easily.

  3. #123
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rody naruto's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Ero-Sanji View Post
    There is a word for that I just explained and it's called a metaphor. A great one at that. Your example however is illegitimate by the simple fact of situation, schumacher and Hamilton are cardrivers in a race, meaning that the fastest car on top of the most skillful driver wins. It has nothing to do with the metaphor of rock paper scissors since it never was a matter of being different. Formula one is simple, it's a race of very similar cars, the basics of rock paper scissors is utilizing the enemies weakness by your strength. In one piece there are so many different fighting styles and powers that there's always someone with a style that is very suited to best your own.
    I do know that you where using a metaphor and that is reason why i used the schumacher and Hamilton situation to show you that your metaphor can't be applied in every situation.

    Let me tell you a story .
    On a pre-timeskip the One piece world was really unfair especially for Paramecias who were going against Logias.It was a world were the rock paper scissors metaphor was the king.A paramecia like Luffy could never stand a chance against a logia like Smoker no matter what.It was too unfair.
    Then two element came into play,changed the all game and made the rock paper scissors thing irrelevant for those who added those two attribut in their fighting skills.Those two element where called "Rokushiki" and "Haki".With those two attribut,a paramecia with the worst attribut could make himself alot stronger,someone like garp who doesn't posses any devil fruit could climb all the way up to the top tier fighters in the One piece world.In this new world ,Logia aren't the most feared anymore,haki users are.And the one who apply it the best is the strongest.

    All this to say that the outcome of the battle betwen Vergo and Smoker has nothing to do with the rock paper and scissors metaphor,but rather with who applies Rokushiki and Haki the best,and in this case Vergo seems to be skillfull one which is the reason why i think he is the will win enless Law gives him a hand.
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  4. #124
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Rody naruto View Post
    Those two element where called "Rokushiki" and "Haki".
    have i missed something about rokushiki? they r physical techniques, they cant damage a logia without haki. the best u can hope for is running away.

  5. #125
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by cearon View Post
    have i missed something about rokushiki? they r physical techniques, they cant damage a logia without haki. the best u can hope for is running away.
    He wasn't talking about logias only...

    Heh
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    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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  7. #126
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rody naruto's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by cearon View Post
    have i missed something about rokushiki? they r physical techniques, they cant damage a logia without haki. the best u can hope for is running away.
    You right rokushiki alone isn't anough to reach a logia and that is the reason why i put it alongside Haki because the two of them together are probably give you one of the strongest if not the strongest attack and defense in One piece.Vergo and Luffy(even though it's an imitation of it) are a good exemple of it.
    Last edited by Rody naruto; October 03, 2012 at 05:41 PM.
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  8. #127
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Rody naruto View Post
    You right rokushiki alone isn't anough to reach a logia and that is the reason why i put it alongside Haki because the two of them together are probably give you one of the strongest if not the strongest attack and defense in One piece.
    well based on your discussions with @ erosanji i will not bud in (thou i guess i did ) but i am not so sure about rokushiki is that great, certainly has merit thou and opened up a new world for the idiots of SH. well i just wanted to clarify rokushiki and why you inserted paramecia specifically since before haki normal chars. cant touch logia also.

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  10. #128
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    yeah,and law is a shichibukai,who are stronger than viceadmirals (except of garp,who was meant to become admiral even over 3 years before roger's death). furthermore,vergo is a VA as well,and he was already stronger than smoker before this (he is the number 1 of the G5,whereas smoker is the number 2). now that it's been revealed he is a spy,I guess his real strength is above what smoker expects... am I wrong?
    To my own harm, I had to hit my head a couple times after reading that post. Oka Shichibukai is a title and nothing else, it does not represent in the tiniest bit the stremgth of a character, e.g. someone could be fearful or/and have some fame, but weak, but be weaker than an average VA. While VAs are obviously the strongest force after admirals and the high command Kong, they could still vary immensly, as could be seen in the war. That said, you come up with an time argument, which is just as idiotic considering the growth of 50+% of the main and support cast within a relatively "short" amount of time.

    Smoker expects to fight a monster, that's comming from his knowledge, his experience and usage of haki. So what in the hellish levels of Impel Down made you think that he would underestimate his ex-boss and head of one of the most dangerous areas of the sea?

    Aniki: A Japanese honorable term for an older brother or a superior.

    pre-post edit: seen Keeper of Jericho reply already, but

    Quote Originally Posted by cearon View Post
    ... and he is the strongest in G-5 as said by everyone. so while there is not many to go by in terms of smokers strength it will be a suprise with the known facts he can win.

    moreover a rank doesnt necessarily mean strength. tashigi is a captain now but i doubt she has the same strength as smoker when we met him in loguetown.
    How does comming from the East Blue make him any weaker than coming from the other Blues. Having command over Loguetown is quiet symbolic, we also know that his ranks never matched his strength. Just as Coby was pulled in by Luffy, Smoker too, began to grow and get stronger relatively fast, his drawn with Ace at Alabasta, even at Marineford, he had the upper hand wouldn't it have been for Hancock. Though Vergo is such a resilient CoA user, so he may need assistance from another Mugiwara to overcome that burden. Or better Tashigi, to give her one good moment in this arc. haha

    Quote Originally Posted by k-dom View Post
    UFO only makes luffy fly a few meters above ground. I doubt he can use this move in such a situation. Plus he is in the dark so it will be difficult to find the slide back.He will get out by another way that the best method I can see.
    While it looks massive, I doubt there is only one way in or is it really like a storage for nuclear wastes[Gorleben], so secret projects will be kept secret?^^

    As you mentioned before, people doesn't seem to get what a break is about. XD Such a sad sight. Do readers just feel angry about Law's fast loss?

    Even with Law going down like that against Vergo, this doesn't really show us that he is actually weak, but that he could be just a bad match up for him. His room doesn't seem to help him very much, his attacks are being shielded with probably the strongest showcase of CoA[which Luffy could have needed against Hodys bite attacks]. I'm excited to see how a logia user will try to attack and/or subdue him. I also wonder if Law will be of any help for the rest of the fight, lying unconscious on the ground like that.

    [QUOTE=Poisok2;3056150]Normally the "epic" chapter comes befora a break, not after. That happens with every manga in the double issues for instance.[QUOTE]
    You mean a chapter with a big cliffhanger, which doesn't have to be epic by itself, just tease a lot. e.g. Kubo, the master troll j/k
    Last edited by Schabrak; October 03, 2012 at 08:13 PM.
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  11. #129
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Rokushiki is a standard to measure physical feat (nowadays) but that isn't a be all and end all. If Garp don't know Rokushiki, I wouldn't be surprise. Rokushiki is but a martial art technique among martial art technique. In a sense, that one element was always there since the beginning of the series. What I meant is the mastering of one own skill whether it is swordsmanship or DF. For Luffy, he didn't achieve the maximum out of his DF until the Gears.

    If anything the rock, paper, scissor still stand. A logia like Coribou could still be defeat by the like of Rob Lucci with a pair of seastone handcuff (even without Coribou probably can't do much against Lucci). I meant Luffy completely immune to the Mero Mero fruit and the Goro Goro fruit. But up course, the One Piece is very complex and doesn't fit perfectly like the Sannin thing from Naruto.

    Haha, I just recall Wiper who didn't have either of those 2 elements almost kill Enel. Both of you guys' views are rather too simplistic for the One Piece's world.

  12. #130
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rody naruto's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by weixiaobao View Post
    Rokushiki is a standard to measure physical feat (nowadays) but that isn't a be all and end all. If Garp don't know Rokushiki, I wouldn't be surprise. Rokushiki is but a martial art technique among martial art technique.
    Of course is the standard to measure physical strenght these days...hell it is the most effective one we have seen so far.I am not saying that rokushiki the absolute martial art,i am saying that it is the strongest martial art(outside of fishman karate and swordsmanship) that we are awared of in this stade of the series.

    Quote Quote:
    In a sense, that one element was always there since the beginning of the series. What I meant is the mastering of one own skill whether it is swordsmanship or DF. For Luffy, he didn't achieve the maximum out of his DF until the Gears.
    1.In a sense,rokushiki and haki were always there since the beginning of series and beyond since the previous generations were using it as well,but we were not aware of it until way later in the series.

    2.Imo,Luffy still haven't reach his maximum potential.But still he had to learn from rokushiki so could get stronger and be inspired to create Gear.

    Quote Quote:
    If anything the rock, paper, scissor still stand.A logia like Coribou could still be defeat by the like of Rob Lucci with a pair of seastone handcuff (even without Coribou probably can't do much against Lucci).
    Hell i think Smoker would be defeated by Ussop if he was handcuffed with seastone but i don't think this has anything to do with the subject.And when you say "even without Coribou probably can't do much against Lucci",i would like you to elaborate because i don't see how Lucci can win without haki.

    Listen someone like Luffy was indeed trapped with the rock paper scissors thing mostly because of his disadvantage as a paramecia against logia.But now tell me how earth this metaphor can still be applied here when obviously Luffy went beyond that concept by learning rokushiki and haki!!Someone like him who,obviously,wouldn't stand a chance against people like Smoker can now fight all those logias as an equal then, eventually ,surprise them.

    Quote Quote:
    I meant Luffy completely immune to the Mero Mero fruit and the Goro Goro fruit. But up course, the One Piece is very complex and doesn't fit perfectly like the Sannin thing from Naruto.
    Sure he Luffy is immune but would it still be the same if the Mero mero no mi or the Goro goro no mi were reinforced with CoA!?Of course not.
    Last edited by Rody naruto; October 03, 2012 at 11:30 PM.
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  13. #131
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Rody naruto- You didn't understand what I said. I totally dismissed the notion that Rokushiki is anyway shape or form important. Instead, I am saying mastering one own skill is important. Some people can have the best devil fruit but still can't utilized it well. Some are born with haki but fail at using it, etc.

    Quote Quote:
    Hell i think Smoker would be defeated by Ussop if he was handcuffed with seastone but i don't think this has anything to do with the subject.And when you say "even without Coribou probably can't do much against Lucci",i would like you to elaborate because i don't see how Lucci can win without haki.
    I think you only read things the way you want to read it. I am saying that Smoker using a weapon with seastone. A handcuff isn't the best weapon since it is not in anyway shape or form serve as a weapon. But with Lucci's skill, he can used to defeat an inferior opponent like Coribou. The second half of that statement, you didn't understand me either. I am saying that with Coribou's skill, he can't defeats Lucci since Lucci could dodge very easily at best it is a stalemate.

    Umm, I think your problem is that you come up with a method that you think it fit best. Then you try to mold everything into your thinking. Let's take BlackBeard for example, his DF work best on DF users. But if his opponent is Mihawk then what now??? (not considering the quake fruit). Let's take Marco for example, the guy could renegade himself over and over and over, the convention method wouldn't work on him. And no, knowing haki doesn't equate on fighting logia at the same level. Even when Vista and Marco try to injured Akainu, we do not know whether or not Akainu using haki to block or it just his physical endurance and his DF power or a combination of all of the above. We can only guestimate.

    I don't think it worth my time to read your past posts. But I do recall your A>B>C because something about Smoker is slower than Vergo or something. Which to me is nonsensical. Kuro seemingly disappear, but I bet Smoker is faster than Kuro.

    I do not agree with the system of this opponent can defeat this opponent at x difficulty as I've seen in imaginary matches from other forum.

    I rather it is more like Law has x percentage of winning at x difficulty while his opponent has x percentage of winning at x difficulty.
    This system implied both has a chance of winning and loosing simultaneously (at different percentage) and maybe at different level of difficulty.

    The whole A > B > C or rock, paper, scissor to be are just too damn simplistic.

    As far as I am concern at the moment, both has around the same chance of winning at about the same level of difficulty. Since both are very straight forward fighter.

    Edit: but really, don't take it to heart. There isn't much of an argument cause I don't even know what are we debating/arguing on. rofl
    Last edited by weixiaobao; October 04, 2012 at 12:01 AM.

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  15. #132
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted k-dom's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    @Schabrak
    My understanding is that people didn't enjoy Luffy being defeated by Monet rather than Law by Vergo

  16. #133
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rody naruto's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    I think this subject is moving away from its original porpuse and i can understand since you didn't read my previous post.i did understand your post correctly,it is you who didn't get mine.On the handcuffs issue it was my sarcastic to say that handcuffs have nothing to do in this conversation since i was only talking about skills.But i guess you didn't get it.So let me make this more clear;when it comes to skills Lucci should not stand a chance against Caribou since he cannot touch him enless he uses haki.Hell Luffy or anyone would have been able to touch Smoker if he was handcuffed with seastones but that is not the issue.

    Quote Quote:
    Umm, I think your problem is that you come up with a method that you think it fit best. Then you try to mold everything into your thinking. Let's take BlackBeard for example, his DF work best on DF users. But if his opponent is Mihawk then what now???
    Lol i am just defending my point of view and are you amplying that Mihawk would beat Blackbeard and that his Devil fruit will not work on him???Ok what's next!?
    Quote Quote:
    And no, knowing haki doesn't equate on fighting logia at the same level.
    Yes it does and Garp is the proof of it

    For the rest of the post i won't even bather because that would just make me repeat myself over and over.And time is money!
    To finish i will say to you the One piece is pretty vaste world with alot of variety yet(thank God) Oda manage to make it simple anough so even child a could understand it,you are the one making it complicated.
    Last edited by Rody naruto; October 04, 2012 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Grammar :)
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  17. #134
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Rody naruto View Post
    So let me make this more clear;when it comes to skills Lucci should not stand a chance against Coribou since he cannot touch him enless he uses haki.
    I think you mean Caribou. Coribou is his brother.

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  19. #135
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Rosebullet Teacher's Avatar
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    Re: One Piece 683 Discussion / 684 Prediction

    I didn't enjoy the chapter (I expected too much, was already having a lukewarm week) but I love Vergo's character, he is totally on mission in every frame. He's taking enormous hits and not slowing down or looking like he will and he's giving just as good as he gets. People make excuses that Sanji's body was hurt so he wasn't at his best against Vergo. Nobody is making excuses for Vergo and after his rampage he still looks like he's gonna give Smoker his toughest fight so far! He still hasn't drawn his bamboo weapon! I'm sure its gonna take both Law and Smoker, begrudgingly allied, to stop him.

    Also I want Nami challenging Monet after catching up to Mocha. Nami said all that "I can't leave crying children" stuff, she's right in front of the people who did that. Plus that thunder trap attack was painfully unspectacular, ditto for that Gust Sword.

    FuS

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