One Piece 683 Discussion

[zerocooldx]

It seems Vergo is already kicking while using Soru. It's also visible within Sanji's fight. Normally people move at high speed, reach the point where they wanted to be, then attack. Do you think he may already be preparing his attack while coming towards his opponent with Soru ?

Well Soru is just a way to move quickly, so i don't see why anyone who can move quickly wouldn't be able to start their attacking motion at the same time whatever that attack may be. If anything it just depends on whats "easier" or more "convenient" to draw. Generally speaking drawing characters doing multiple things/movements at once is more difficult and probably messes with the quality of the art as well if done constantly. The biggest takeaway from that fight is how strong and fast Vergo is. He takes Counter Shock without skipping a beat and then over a short distance is as fast as Law's teleportation. Not sure what Smoker is going to accomplish other then to provide a diversion for Law.

[Rody naruto]

So what if Law is a Shichibukai? It's pretty obvious that there's a big difference in strength within the Shichibukai. Or would you put Law on the same level as Doflamingo and Mihawk, for example? No way. From what we've seen on the Vice-Admirals, though, they all seem to be roughly around the same level of strength (exceptions being Garp and Tsuru). I'm also pretty sure the Vice-Admirals we've seen could take on some of the Shichibukai we've seen, like Crocodile, Jinbe or Moria. Not all of them, mind you, but then again, there are few people we know of in One Piece who could take on the likes of Mihawk, Kuma or Doflamingo. Law, though? He's nowhere near top tier, and well within the beating range of Vice-Admirals. Let's not forget Smoker's set up as Luffy's rival marine, and given how strong Luffy is and will have to become, that should say enough about Smoker.

Also, being the number one doesn't mean you're the strongest, especially within the marines. Sengoku might have been Fleet Admiral, but I don't think he was stronger than Akainu, Kizaru or Aokiji (he was still top tier, mind you, but the admirals surpassed him because they are in their prime and he no longer is). I don't get where you get that Vergo was already stronger than Smoker. So he has a higher rank in G5, like, duh, he got there earlier. But have we seen them fight yet? No. It's pretty unclear at this point how them facing off will go. That Vergo beat Law and Law beat Smoker doesn't mean Vergo will easily beat Smoker. It doesn't work like that in One Piece, that's been shown plenty of times before.

Well there is definetly a difference among Vice admirals.Just think about it this way;it seems that there is only a place for three admirals in the marine which means that from all the vice admirals on the armee,only three will make the grade.Now it doesn't means that the choosen ones are the only ones from the plot which are on an admiral level,it just means that the government chose the top three to become admirals.
From that,it is easy to assumed that there are still many Vice admirals that are on/close to the admiral level regardless of there title.So just like the Shichibukais,there should a huge difference among some of the Vice admirals in term of strenght.

About the Law-Vergo-Smoker issue,i would say that Vergo definitely is stronger than smoker and the best way to come up with that conclusion is to got back to the fight which opposed Law to Smoker.See Smoker didn't lose to Law because he was weaker than him.In the contrary when you take a look at that fight,just by observing the power of Smoker's attacks it is easy to see that he was definitely the strongest.So for me reason why Smoker lost to Traffy is because Smoker's technic and speed were the weakest.Law was the fastest and that is why he won the battle and it is also the reason why he(Law) lost to Vergo.Now,i know many of Traffy fans will get the excuse that Vergo has his hearth but if you take a look at this panel it should be clear to see that haven though he retrieved his hearth Law barely had the time react that he lost it again so much he couldn't see what was coming.
Law lost Vergo because Vergo have both speed and the strenght of a beast and it is the same reason why Smoker will lose to him.He simply isn't fast enough.

---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

I don't think Oda would make Luffy fall there from no reason ; otherwise, he would have only had to let Luffy trying to break Monet's super igloo. Just like Razh said, it's like the Boa's inside from Skypiea : after you leave that dark place, you come back to the light different. It's Oda making a reference to the classical myth of the cavern. So I'm expecting Luffy falling there will have an impact on the events. There has to be something hidden there.

Also Luffy did take alot of the spot light since the time skip and it should be the time for other members of the crew to show what they can do.Like Mani with the fact that she controls the weather should be a good opponent against Monet.I am dying to see Ussop in a big fight so we can really see his improvement .

Note: the Allegory of the cave is definitely on top three of my favorite(number being "Men become they think"from Earl Nightingale) thanks for the reminding

[ukimix]

Well, I have to say I totally disagree with most of the MH's One Piece community's. To me, this chapter was amazing, in particular because of Oda's drawings of Monet and Luffy/Law and Vergo's interactions.

Again you!... I was going to write some sentence like that, and there I found yours. At least, I voted first for epic chapter, man... Anyway, I will add some other reasons,

This chapter is just amazing. But before sharing my views on the chapter I want to recall some general features of One Piece.

First, One Piece is not a manga about physical power or fights. Monet has pointed a key to reading the whole manga: “don’t confuse victory with fighting power”. Let me paraphrase it this way: “if you are searching for fighting power magazines maybe this is not the manga for you.” Instead of that One Piece is a manga about will and about the power of will. In Punk Hazard’s arc, this element is presence, for instance, in Doflamingo’s warning to his crew about Luffy possibly being superior to Law because of he has awaken Conqueror’s haki.

But, as a matter of fact, the not so graceful hero of this manga is possibly the most stupid member of the crew; which is just a remarkable graceful event. The stupid hero, again… what a theme! I will quote some of his performances from user kouch_lee:

• Buggy arc: Luffy gets imprisoned by Nami because he was too naive, and incapacitated for some chapters.
  
• Kuro arc: Luffy falls asleep under Jango's comand.
  
• Arlong arc: Luffy does a "stupid" attack and as a consequence gets thrown to the bottom of the sea by Arlong.
  
• Little Garden: Luffy gets stuck under a mountain by a giant, and then gets constantly fucked over by Miss Goldenweek traps.
  
• Skypiea: Luffy gets swallowed by a snake and then gets a giant golden ball attached to his arm, both times getting him away from the fight.
  
• Foxy arc: Luffy gets constantly cheated by Foxy because of his extreme naivete.
  
• Water Seven: Luffy gets stuck between 2 buildings.
  
• Impel Down: In an incredibly tense race against time to save his brother, he finds the time to fuck around with that Sphinx and starts playing whack-a-mole with Mr. 3 clones . . .

To add this chapter to the list, remember that some chapters ago, Law was giving instructions to everyone to make the most of the 2 hours they have. At the moment, Sanji saved a lady, Nami and Zoro’s group found children and stopped their drug consume, (Frankie will bring back Thousand sunny?), though beaten by Vergo Law reached SAD production room, Smoker found Vergo, and Luffy … well Luffy, the most powerful one, is trapped in the bottom of Lab's plumbing… Come on guys, that is just funny and so One Piece. (And it is possible that Luffy will come back yelling and rising a little flying Momonosuke). ... So once again, do you want a smart protagonist, who doesn’t even or often make mistakes? This is not the manga.

Now, Monet is just superb, and the title is dedicated to her. Oda’s inspiration for this character is for sure an ancient character of some Japanese tales: Yuki Onna. This is a beautiful lady, a snow woman, who uses to embrace her victims to extract their lives, as a succubus, with a cold hug; (Monet tries to do it with Luffy). She also uses to move without leaving footprints (which is associated with her following Law without being noticed). Related to this, in some tales she uses to be a ghost, (what also matches Monet’s possibility of trespassing those hard snow hut walls.) Finally, in some ancient japanese tales she falls in love of young visitors to the forest (which I associate also to Monet’s flirting with Law, the possessor of her heart).

Here an ancient tale already quoted in first page of the thread, with some of these features (source):

'The mountain snow woman from a famous Japanese story'
Translated by Clay

A long time ago in a cold northern country, there lived a lumberjack father and son. One winter day, while they were gatherering wood a snow storm began. They rushed back to their cabin to wait the storm out. But the storm continued and the two fell asleep by the warm fireplace. It was so cold, the son woke up. Outside the wind howled and the snow fell hard. Suddenly the door of the cabin flew away in the wind. Snow blew into the cabin and the warm fire went out.

Just then, a beautiful woman with a pure white kimono and seemingly transparent skin came into the cabin with the snow. She went to the father and breathed frosty air on him. He became white as snow and appeared as ice and breathed no more.

The son said, "It's the yuki onna!" He remembered the story of a fearsome woman who comes with the snow to take away the life of people in the night. Having just seen his father killed, the son's body started to shake. Although he wanted to run, his body couldn't move. The yuki onna moved ever closer to the son while blowing white air from her mouth. She stopped just in front of him and said, "You have received my favor. I will let you live tonight since you are so young. However you must never tell anyone of what happened tonight." And she disappeared into the night and snow. He fainted. The next morning, the boy awoke to find his father's body and wondered if he really did see the yuki onna. He never spoke to anyone about the matter though.

A year passed and the snow again began to fall. One night the young man heard a tapping on the door and he opened to see what it was. It was a woman. She said, "I'm caught in the snow. Is there anyway I could stay here tonight?" The young man was nice enough to let her stay and eat with him. She said her name was Oyuki. They talked and talked. As time passed by they grew to like each other and were married. A few years later they had a child.

In the north country another harsh winter came. One of those winter nights the young man looked at the side of Oyuki's face while she was sewing and said, "You know, you remind me of a woman I saw a long time ago. You look just like her." She immediately stopped her sewing and asked, "Where did you see this woman?" He answered, "Just before my 20th birthday there was a snow storm and she came to this cabin. It was the yuki onna!" Oyuki sadly said, "The yuki onna must have told you sternly not to speak of this. Why do you say this?" He replied, "How do you know this, Oyuki?" She slowly stood up and her kimono and face became freezing white. "It was you... It was you..." "That is right. Why did you say that? Now I cannot live with you." He said, "Forgive me, Oyuki!" But she only said, "I will never forget you. Somehow take care of our child. Fare well!" Just then the door flew open and Oyuki disappeared in the snow. The young man searched for her, but couldn't find a trace. (My emphasis)

To add more features to Monet, she is sweet, tender, and at the same time terrifying: “Mocha… please share with everyone”.

The moment with Law bringing back is just great, though I would like it better with an additional close up of Vergo appearing in the middle of the Room and another one of Law ready to move (as in a western duel )

I also enjoy Law evaluating his strategy in Punk Hazard: “it didn’t work” and confessing his miscalculation with a smile in his blooding face. Tuff guy, since he bravely had gave his heart to succeed, honestly telling the true.

---------- Post added October 03, 2012 at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was October 02, 2012 at 11:34 PM ----------

One last thing on Law's final words: Vergo gets angry when Law calls him Vergo. It should have to be related with their common past.

[SHeeDeD]

Well there is definetly a difference among Vice admirals.Just think about it this way;it seems that there is only a place for three admirals in the marine which means that from all the vice admirals on the armee,only three will make the grade.Now it doesn't means that the choosen ones are the only ones from the plot which are on an admiral level,it just means that the government chose the top three to become admirals.
From that,it is easy to assumed that there are still many Vice admirals that are on/close to the admiral level regardless of there title.So just like the Shichibukais,there should a huge difference among some of the Vice admirals in term of strenght.

About the Law-Vergo-Smoker issue,i would say that Vergo definitely is stronger than smoker and the best way to come up with that conclusion is to got back to the fight which opposed Law to Smoker.See Smoker didn't lose to Law because he was weaker than him.In the contrary when you take a look at that fight,just by observing the power of Smoker's attacks it is easy to see that he was definitely the strongest.So for me reason why Smoker lost to Traffy is because Smoker's technic and speed were the weakest.Law was the fastest and that is why he won the battle and it is also the reason why he(Law) lost to Vergo.Now,i know many of Traffy fans will get the excuse that Vergo has his hearth but if you take a look at this panel it should be clear to see that haven though he retrieved his hearth Law barely had the time react that he lost it again so much he couldn't see what was coming.
Law lost Vergo because Vergo have both speed and the strenght of a beast and it is the same reason why Smoker will lose to him.He simply isn't fast enough.

---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------



Also Luffy did take alot of the spot light since the time skip and it should be the time for other members of the crew to show what they can do.Like Mani with the fact that she controls the weather should be a good opponent against Monet.I am dying to see Ussop in a big fight so we can really see his improvement .

Note: the Allegory of the cave is definitely on top three of my favorite(number being "Men become they think"from Earl Nightingale) thanks for the reminding

I'm sick of this, i bet so many ppl said what im about to say. Smoker losing to law, Law losing to verogn does not mean Vego is stronger than Smoker.

A>B and B > C does not mean A>C. I hate when i discuss strength like this. if i was gonna discuss it though. ill Provide the abilities for each char. then ill take stand/position.

And i Hope Luffy will take " I should think before I react" into consideration. In other words, change his personality a little like " strength does not mean everything i must use brain 2". and i think that's what Oda is trying to accomplish here.

[Rody naruto]

I'm sick of this, i bet so many ppl said what im about to say. Smoker losing to law, Law losing to verogn does not mean Vego is stronger than Smoker.

A>B and B > C does not mean A>C. I hate when i discuss strength like this. if i was gonna discuss it though. ill Provide the abilities for each char. then ill take stand/position.

And i Hope Luffy will take " I should think before I react" into consideration. In other words, change his personality a little like " strength does not mean everything i must use brain 2". and i think that's what Oda is trying to accomplish here.

Damn why so serious!?If the idea shared in this trade is something that you don't agree with instead of complaining about it you should provide an other idea that you think is better.It is called being constructive .

Besides,if you read my post again you will see that i was talking more about speed and technic as a reason for what Smoker would lose against Vergo and when it comes to speed and technic it is the one who has a better understanding of it who will win.In that case if A>B and B>C,A is definitely superior > to C(at least 99% of the time as the 1% being the exception to the rule)

[Ero-Sanji]

For those that claims that if A>B and B>C then A>C, have you ever heard of the game rock paper scissors?

One of the greatest things about this battle manga is that everyone can get beaten by almost anyone depending on the situation and the mood of that "anyone". Law had an ability that made it possible to interact Smoker in a way that Vergo might not. Surely, he has Haki, but that itself is not a guarantee. Personally, I hope that Smoker gets a decent fight now and that he wins or forces Virgo to flee.

[weixiaobao]

Ummm, Law didn't lose to Vergo. Geez, Vergo was beating Law with Law's own technique. I meant Law give himself a freaking handicap by removing his heart. The 2 encounters with Vergo, Law has a huge freaking handicap. The second time, Vergo came out of nowhere. I meant Law thought Luffy and Smoker keep Vergo and CC busy.

[Razh]

Some people will always rank fighters, no matter how many times Oda beats their heads with REALITY BAT. Personally, I haven't seen anything that would make Vergo look stronger than Smoker. Sure, Smoker got fooled by Law's ability. Mind you, it's not some shitty devil fruit, it's probably one of most dangerous abilities so far in One Piece. Smoker is still a logia and has probably absorbed some Rokushiki techniques. Maybe even Haki? We'll see.

Biggest problem here is that Vergo probably has his heart too and he won't hesitate to use it. Law's only hope is to take advantage of their fight and use it to get his heart back and possibly get rid of both of them at the same time.

I think it will be a great fight and you can't predict for sure who will have the upper hand. Even if Vergo is stronger, it doesn't mean he can win and vice-versa.

[Josef K.]

Oda has really gotten a hold of brutality after the war it seems, we have been getting brutal scenes in One Piece before, but he just seems to get better at it! That was really the highlight here, this chapters can be "felt". It has richness and dept.

Another thing was Monet and her "death kiss", well not really kiss, but I would say hug, in one panel she looked like she was "seducing" Luffy in the snow. Maybe the technique did not fully work because Luffy was never entranced by women?

[Rody naruto]

For those that claims that if A>B and B>C then A>C, have you ever heard of the game rock paper scissors?

One of the greatest things about this battle manga is that everyone can get beaten by almost anyone depending on the situation and the mood of that "anyone". Law had an ability that made it possible to interact Smoker in a way that Vergo might not. Surely, he has Haki, but that itself is not a guarantee. Personally, I hope that Smoker gets a decent fight now and that he wins or forces Virgo to flee.

I don't think the game rock paper scissors applies when it comes to speed and technics. I mean i doubt Lewis Hamilton and michael schumacher go rock paper scissors in order to win thier race
Vergo definitely has a step ahead of Smoker in term of speed and it should be clear just by taking a look at Law's fight against Smoker then Law's fight against Vergo.How can Smoker win against someone he can't keep up with!? This has nothing to do with rock paper scissors

Still i am pretty sure it is going to be a really good fight though!

[chess4]

So glad we can put to bed the whole "Monet joining the strawhats. She is a bad guy, i dont understand why people cant face the facts. Kinemon joining or no one. Cant wait to see SMoker and Vergo get it opn

[Shojin]

Not a bad chapter at all!

Can't wait for the fight between Smoker and Vergo!

[Rody naruto]

yeah That Angel face of hers while she was saying "Mocha..you can't keep it all to yourself,you know...please share with everyone." was just she gives me goose bumps(most because she remind me an ex but that's an other subject ) And Ussop reaction when he saw her was just Funny

[k-dom]

Another thing was Monet and her "death kiss", well not really kiss, but I would say hug, in one panel she looked like she was "seducing" Luffy in the snow. Maybe the technique did not fully work because Luffy was never entranced by women?

That makes me think we have to see Sanji reaction when he will see her :-)

[ukimix]

Maybe the technique did not fully work because Luffy was never entranced by women?

Neither by men, which make think Luffy is like a 11 years old boy: he doesn't like sex, but he does like meat.

That makes me think we have to see Sanji reaction when he will see her :-)

Sanji can resist seeing Monet, but if she hugs him... he would die with a smile on his face. Robin is a great rival for Monet.