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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
...the explanation is just boring?
Yes, this is a direct response to SlayerKisame's "Let's Talk About Why Your Tobito "Plotholes" Aren't Plotholes" thread and to many of the people who replied trying to explain things.
I've read over your explanations, and what disappoints me the most is realizing that they are perfectly valid explanations. This disappoints me so much because they are just so freakin boring.
Yes, these are all possible things! And this is just sad, because these explanations are pretty much the only ones possible. They feel cheesy, slapped on like putting a magazine under a table with a wonky leg. To quote the great Carl Sagan: "Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence". Not really relevant as is, but if you change Claims for Stories and Evidence for Explanations, you get what I mean.Quote:
Let me give you a concrete example: Itachi used to be an ANBU, so he knew how to infiltrate Konoha, disarming the systems that would otherwise detect him. That's cool and appropriate.
Now imagine if we learned that he just Henge'd himself into any villager and walked through the main gate.
One very important thing: Let's also not forget the Boring Explanation to Bore Them All: Hashirama's cells. Hashirama's cells are the WD-40 of plot devices. Just throw it in anything from mutilated body to rusted silverware and it will be as good as new.
When some big thing happen, we, readers, expect something equally big to explain it. Ultimately, if you can't make your readers happy at the very end, your series has failed.
Now, why am I not posting this on the other thread? Because I want to start a discussion here which I think would be off-topic over there.
Mainly, I want to know what you think about these explanations. How would you patch everything up? Would you feel satisfied if those were actually the explanations?
Last edited by Criss-Kun; September 19, 2012 at 04:54 AM.
Show me please 3 really great twist. I can just think of one and that was Itachi is a good guy.Quote:
Sorry, it's 7 a.m here in Brazil and I'm sleep deprived. What I meant to say was the big explanations that we all came to know and love. No idea why I decided that "twists" was a valid replacement here.
I'll just take that part out so the discussion doesn't end up going in a bad direction.
After how Suigetsu conveniently found a scroll that is able to change the war and let Taka rule the world, a scroll conveniently left behind by Kabuto, conveniently in the only base Suigetsu and Juugo found, conveniently in the only wall Juugo broke, conveniently only usable by Orochimaru, conveniently still alive inside Anko that wasn't conveniently killed by Kabuto, do you expect a logical/interesting reason for the bullshit Kishi draws?
Same manga where Hashirama's cells is the solution for all problems, ranging from a common cold to impending death.
Naruto: "Hey Madara, you said you died shortly after giving Nagato your eyes, how you and Obito know each other?"
Madara: "I used Hashirama's cells."
Naruto: "What, but even I know the math doesn't work..."
Madara: "Hashirama cells. Problem solved."
I agree with the OP. Things can be explained in Naruto, but usually the explanations are just so boring and last-minute.
This is what happens when you can't tie the whole story together and keep making up stuff on the spot.
Like the OP says, it's exactly like putting a book under a broken table to balance it. It's the most last-minute solution ever.
Better than Bleach atleast, where things are not explained most of the time, atleast Kishimoto bothers to explain SOME stuff.
hashirama's cells have epic lifeforce and seem to possess accelerated mitosis because of this.. what if he got cancer?
Why on earth are people still complaining about the Obito "plothole" stuff? At least there's sort-of an explanation behind it. What about all the other glaring plotholes in the series that people just skip over?
Like the stuff with Izanagi:
- So you need Hashirama's genes to use it, like Tobi told Konan?
- Itachi says the whole clan spammed it so much they had to develop Izanami?
- How could they spam it if it costs you an eye?
- If it changes reality however you want, why not make yourself several extra eyes with it?
- No Uchihas thought to use Izanagi while Itachi was massacring them? Durr....
Doesn't make any goddamn sense. Just one of many things in the series.
I don't know why people seem to pick and choose which plotholes they're going to get upset about. Personally, I don't see the Obito stuff as that bad, since we've started to get explanations in the recent chapters. I think the author made Tobi's identity way too obvious at first, then used the Madara stuff to make people wonder again.
And why couldn't one single person tell Naruto about his parents, seriously...
seriously you people cant be satisfied, its to boring of an explanation, and it was basically established that he inserts a portion of his own chakra into the people with curse seal, remember itachi sasuke fight who pops out of the curse seal but orochimaru, either let him explain or dont read simple as that
I just assumed that someone from the Uchiha clan made some experiments like Orochimaru or Madara. But is that supposed to be a common thing?
But I expect this will be explained at some time when more details about the Rikudo sons and the Uchiha lineage is provided.
But I still think you made a valid question: Izanagi is so overpowered that all Ninjas in the world shouldn't think of anything else, and they should all be looking for Sharingans to use as Dragon Balls.
But it requires Senju heritage to use it, and that's the reason. How the Uchihas used it in the past is a different matter...
Last edited by Fox666; September 19, 2012 at 09:26 PM.
In other words, what you wrote is essentially the type of complete BS that you can use on almost everything that you dislike.
Last edited by Ryr; September 20, 2012 at 05:15 AM.
-Juugo and Suigetsu didn't despise Sasuke like Karin, the one who had a crush on him
-Juugo and Suigetsu going to Orochimaru's lair to search for Sasuke when Sasuke cut his ties with Orochimaru at the start of their journey
-Juugo going mad at random, when he was all logical and stuff when they infiltrated the samurais and were prisoners, and then escaped
-How Orochimaru or Kabuto never hid that ultra important scroll, if it could enable them to rule the world
-Why Kabuto kept Anko alive when he already extracted Orochimaru's chakra from her
-How Juugo and Suigetsu flawlessy found Sasuke when better man tried to locate Kabuto, invain
Ah no of course, a guy randomly punching a wall for no reason and finding a deus ex machina makes perfect sense.
I don't think all the explanations/retcons are bad. Some are though. Then again you could say that a fictional story is not supposed to make sense anyway. But as a writer you've still gotta try to make the fiction make as much fictional sense as possible.
Because Juugo and Suigetsu are not willing subjects of Orochimaru's experiments.Quote:
Do I seriously need to explain to you about his dual-personality? Or do you conveniently forgot about the plot?Quote:
Voldemort hid his horcruxes too. I wonder how people still manage to find them.Quote:
In the real world not everything will always go according to plan. There will always be the random factor. Call it chaos theory or whatever you would like. The fact remains that a lot of discoveries, be it scientific ones or othewise, are stumbled upon by chance. Google it.Quote:
Someone accidentally finding something important in the manga is realistic. It doesn't happen every day, but it does happen.
Even though he killed Orochimaru, go figure.
Suigetsu has no logical reason in following Sasuke, since Sasuke doesn't care one bit about the 7 swords
They went there to search for Sasuke, not to go and chill.
And since they later found him easily, it doesn't make sense for them to just go there instead of searching for him
So Juugo going nuts in that only instance, when he didn't go nuts in stressful situation where his life was in danger is good?Quote:
Juugo acting all logical for the entire period going from the Summit and the War, and then he has this one time relapse in front of that wall?
I don't expect this manga to be a literature masterpiece, but come on, that's way too convenient and easy
People ( Dumbledore ) found them after lucky shots ( Harry destroying the diary ), years of research and Harry obtaining a memory.Quote:
Not randomly punching a wall for no reason
If this would've happened once or twice, or for a good reason, I don't think anyone would be bothered.Quote:
As you said chance discoveries happens all the time, I agree.
Take the Lord of the Rings, just to make a famous example:
Bilbo found the Ring by complete accident, and later Gandalf confirms it was his fate, just like it was Frodo's fate to carry it.
But that is one occasion, and its the author that, instead of being lazy, is focusing on one of the principal themes of the book, how Fate guided the Ring to its distruction. And then again, it was both a great blessing and the worst curse.
This occasion however has none of the above:
its two guys strolling randomly in a place, finding the hidden room for a retarded way in a retarded way, and voilà! World domination
Let's make an example, shall we?
Harry Potter and company are walking down a road for no reason.
Harry strumbles on something, he curses the heavens and looks below, finding an Horcrux.
They can't believe they are so lucky, but hey, its a chance discovery.
But then they realize they don't have a weapon to destroy it, so they panic, and then Ron strumbles on something. He curses the heavens, and looks below.
They found a Basilisk fang!
So they proceed to destroy the Horcrux.
That's what basically happened