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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
As for as duplicating moves with Muga, I'm sure Yukimura and Sanada must have just tried duplicating any move they've seen. After all they've seen far more than anyone not in their school by definition (they're two time champs) so why wouldn't they just try everything they see in case there's a useful move? But they clearly turned Kirihara away from the Muga path, which implies they must know this path doesn't lead to anywhere useful and in terms of experience they're obviously the most qualified to say that copying people's moves doesn't get you anything really useful. I mean sure Sanada and Yukimura aren't the main characters so maybe Sanada and Yukimura uses Muga everywhere else we don't see them but there's just no reason to believe this is true especially given Yukimura pretty much thinks of Muga as a useless move.
Ryoma has pretty much nothing in common with second door but he can open it. If you talk about experience, both Yukimura and Sanada has far more of it than anyone else, again by the virtue of being on the champion team. If you talk about heritage, especially samurai heritage, Sanada obviously knows how to use a sword and Fu is a variant of Battou, and then there's the not-so-subtle fact that Sanada Yukimura is one of the greatest samurai ever. The third door cannot be opened by normal means but it didn't take anything super special to open the first two doors and Sanada and Yukimura are obviously really special to begin with. I mean Nioh can flat out clone the first two doors but he can't clone the Zeroth Serve in the match against Fuji, so in terms of difficulty it's harder to clone the Zeroth Serve than both of the first two doors!
Tezuka Zone isn't really a good move relative to the people we're talking about because it's said many times Tezuka Zone hurts your elbow in a serious way. While Tezuka Phantom exceeds what the human body can tolerate, don't forget Tezuka Zone is pretty much at the limit of what the human body can tolerate, so it's not something you want to do just for the sake of doing it.
Yet Tezuka, Yukimura, and Sanada are all guys who can return virtually any move in a 'normal' form, so to speak. Outside of Rai, I do not see any of those 3 characters encounter a move they cannot return normally. For a point of reference, Nioh while cloning Tezuka can return Fuji's 5th counter by hitting it back normally. At least within the same age group, almost any fancy technique is just a normal rally to those 3 guys, so why would any of them want to use a move that hurts yourself considerably to return a shot? Especially for Tezuka, who has a history of injury problems? Tezuka Zone is a move that'd be good for a power type character, like any of the Hado ballers. It's not a useful move for someone who can already return just about any special technique normally. In fact it seems like World of Ice was invented to justify why someone who can return just about any special technique normally would ever care about Tezuka Zone.
Sanada presumably can return his own Rai and Rai seems just as good as returning any shot compared to TZone with the sole exception of the World of Ice line, but since World of Ice didn't exist at this particular point we're talking about, from Sanada's point of view, his Rai is every bit as good as Tezuka Zone when it comes to returning a shot.
Explain Black Aura then.Originally Posted by Phantron
Strength has nothing to do with returning Rai. Which is why that big moron Sasabe from the first chapters got a hole in his racquet, despite being physically strong. You can have the power of Oni and still not return Rai. Yukimura shows us that extremely high technique is the only way to return it.Originally Posted by Phantron
Last edited by Fayte; September 29, 2012 at 11:06 PM.
It's pretty clear in NPOT the middle schoolers got lowered some in power level (e.g. Ryoma magically forgot any of the 3 doors he already opened) to illustrate the fact that high schoolers are supposed to be stronger. Tezuka whiffed on Rai so is Sasabe supposed to have better hand-eye coordination than Tezuka too? Rai loses the 'impossible to return by speed' element in NPOT which makes it no different than a normal 'power' type attack. Power attacks can ALWAYS be returned if the recipient possess at least as much strength as the shot creator, but there's no doubt Sanada's strength is pretty much at the top of middle schoolers. Just because he doesn't have a habit of hitting the ball in someone's face and cause grevious harm doesn't mean he's physically weaker. Sanada said there's no way Tezuka can return Rai with such a skinny arm of his. If strength is no use against Rai, why would Tezuka's arm strength even matter?
Tezuka could have ran to Rai, but why run to it if you have Tezuka Zone?
Sanada purposely lets his opponents get to Rai I believe to put despair into them. Since Tennis is a lot about Mental Strength too.
And Ryoma didn't forget the two doors!
We haven't seen him in a match. We just saw him lose to Tokugawa. We never saw the match.
However we know he cannot use TMnK on demand. That is all.
We honestly don't know.
We only know as an All-Rounder, it is cited Sanada physically has the perfect attributes.
HnK is unable to return Rai for one reason alone. Rai breaks the racquet gut 100% of the time, making it impossible to return using the strings. Rai also has an electrifying paralysis effect, making it impossible to return using the frame. You have to use the butt of the racquet only, which is nearly impossible for anyone who isn't Yukimura. Again, returning Rai has NOTHING to do with power. Yukimura has the SAME BODY FRAME as Tezuka.
I did some checking around and the English and Chinese translation are not even remotely the same. This is the page I'm talking about:
In the Chinese version Sanada says: "You have no hope of returning my shot with such a skinny arm of yours."
I guess it's pointless to argue at this point since without seeing the original Japanese stuff it'd be completely impossible to tell which translation is correct.
From my experience, though, English translation tends to be significantly off from the original not necessarily because the guys doing the translation is bad, but that it takes way more letters/words to express the same concept and usually the translator don't want to make it look like the characters are talking in paragraphs or make stuff way smaller in font. The particular phrase in English was 8 words, while the simlified translation from the Chinese is 15 and it's not as expressive as what Sanada actually said.
The more verbose translation of what Sanada said (according to the Chinese version) would be:
"No matter how much you try with such skinny arms of yours, never in your life would you be able to return my shot."
And that'd definitely be way too long to fit in the word bubble in a reasonable font. Sanada is a relatively verbose character. His dialogue in the Chinese version filled up the entire bubble. Assuming the Chinese translation is correct, there is no way the English translation can possibly even fit in the same word bubble using the same sized font because it takes far less space (in same font) to express something in Chinese or Japanese compared to English.
Last edited by Phantron; October 01, 2012 at 08:18 PM.
But the expressiveness of the language relative to the area available is very different between Japanese/Chinese to English. Japanese is probably the most compact. For example the ability to have two separate reading for any particular move is easily done in Japanese, but it cannot be done in Chinese nor English. English definitely uses the most area to say the same thing compared to the other two languages, so if Chinese translation fills the word bubble there's no way the English translation can even say the same thing without using a smaller font. I've seen plenty of original Japanese text that I know would be too wordy to translate to English given the available spacing simplified to fit the available room. I don't blame translators for doing that, and most of the time it doesn't matter anyway, but in this case a rather important detail was missing.
At any rate Yukimura's ability to return Rai occured in NPOT, where clearly all the middle schoolers got some kind of downward adjustment to allow for future growth. Even ignoring plot reasons, you can simply say since Yukimura knew about the Rai technique he could've just been thinking about how to deal with it, while Tezuka only saw it the first time and didn't have time to think of a clever way to neutralize it. Otherwise, is it really plausible that Tezuka, who has a technique of 5 in NPOT and is certain the master of things that do not even seen humanely possible, somehow cannot flip his racket around and use the handle to hit a ball? Pretty much every technique he does is way more complicated than Yukimura's return. Heck, I can probably take a racket and attempt to hit a ball back with the handle in real life. It wouldn't be a good return but I'm pretty confident I can at least hit the ball. I sure can't come anywhere close to doing the Tezuka Zone or anything else Tezuka have done before.
But to your argument, Yukimura removes people's sight and hearing. You think a tennis shot is far more complicated?
Yukimura's technique stat is likely above 5. Considering FuuRinKaInZanRai has no effect on him while it effected Tezuka.
Returning Rai is down to technique even more than Power.
in the anime and manga.. it was shown / hinted that tezuka couldnt hit rai with normal means.
this was to show that the shot was as fast as lightning. tezuka had to use tezuka zone to draw the ball to him.
we would just see tezuka get close, and lightning all over him, presuming that lightning was the course of the ball, and was moving so fast , there's no way tezuka at that time could even hope to return it.
so he told sanada, its a shot he cant return.. blah etc
is how i interpreted it
here: mods remove the links if they aren't allowed
game sanada 1-0, 2-0. You'd think tezuka would have tried to Return RAI and not lose points. point is it seemed like he couldnt even hit it back. thus he resorted to alternate means later. and when he did... his racket gut got torn.
also do u want a lightning speed ball (with lightning element) coming toward straight to u?
Last edited by ashore; October 02, 2012 at 05:19 PM.