Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

[k-dom]

Hungry Joker polled in last place but the editors conspired to place it higher anyway. Dictionary definition of a conspiracy.



Jump's policy is to cancel series based on fan polls. There has to be some level of consistency in this. If fans were to believe the editors tinker with the votes, canceling some low ranking series, but not others, than trust would be lost between the magazine and readers. Fewer readers would bother filling in the questionnaire, and series could be canceled based on a statistically less significant portion of the population. Fans have to trust, or at least have the illusion of trust, that the rankings mean something. If Hungry Joker really did place last, yet was ranked in the middle, and continued to rank in the middle despite poor polls, it could rankle fans. The fact is that it's already fallen to the bottom, so any accusations of pimping can be thrown out.

They did not conspire, they did their job of editors which i hope consist in more things than counting poll.

And don't all manga magazines have a poll system ? I doubt people will stop voting even if it's not shown on the rank.

[xi0]

They did not conspire, they did their job of editors which i hope consist in more things than counting poll.

And don't all manga magazines have a poll system ? I doubt people will stop voting even if it's not shown on the rank.

I think a lot of them have questionnaires, but it makes more sense for the magazine with the most readers to be a lot more competitive than say, Weekly Shounen Champion. The audience matters more as a result of it's popularity. Placing more emphasis on what the readers vote seems to work pretty well for them obviously.

I think too many people look at ToCs of other magazines and assume it works the same as WSJ. We just know more about how the WSJ editorial department works than any other magazine. But even then, there are still things that happen that can't be explain by where a series ranks in the ToC.

[k-dom]

On another subject, I looked at the old jump covers of the 80s thanks to kamisama tumblr galeries and at that time the standard was more like this:
* A serie on the cover (interestingly new series did not systematically had the cover)
* A lead color serie
* quite often,an "all color" serie in 2d place

Does all color mean all pages were in color ?

It's interesting to see how things have evolved little by little. Now the minimum of series with color pages is 3 or 4 when back then it could happen none of them had one.

[perroloco]

All color typically means 1,2 or 3 pages in full color and the rest of the chapter in bichrome (JUMP used to use redish tones of bichrome).

---------- Post added at 05:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------

Here is a post with some old color pages for the last chapter of Slam Dunk and the first of Hoshin Engi, beware of spoilers though.

http://weeklyjump.livejournal.com/12...thread=2857965

[Asgaroth]

All color typically means 1,2 or 3 pages in full color and the rest of the chapter in bichrome (JUMP used to use redish tones of bichrome).

Whats good about turning the black to red? it feels unnatural and is kinda heart to read, at least in scanlations of mangas. I don't understand its appeal.

[xi0]

I have a feeling the bichrome was just a way for WSJ to say a chapter was in full color and charge more for adspace before and after it. Just a theory though. People probably wised up and realized it doesn't really add much to a chapter and that's why we don't see it as often.

[Kaiten]

They did not conspire, they did their job of editors which i hope consist in more things than counting poll.

If Hungry Joker really was placed that much higher than it polled, it would have been the very definition of conspiracy. The editors would have conspired to subvert Jump's ranking system, promoting a series they wanted serialized despite the fact that it was unpopular with fans. This is a popularity poll, if rankings are not based on popularity, the system has been subverted. The truth is that it was fans here overreacting to a bit of leaked news. Hungry Joker has already slid to the bottom five. It wouldn't have made the least bit of sense to only pimp it for two weeks, and then only place it in the middle of the magazine.

And don't all manga magazines have a poll system ? I doubt people will stop voting even if it's not shown on the rank.

A poor comparison. Other magazines are not as quick to cancel series based on fan polls alone. The TOC rankings effect people's jobs. There has to be some level of honesty between editors and mangaka. And fans too, if they want fans to continue voting.

[k-dom]

Are you a member of jump to know if they have done this or that ? We have learned from a credible source that Hungry joker rank was higher than it's real poll. That was the editor decision and it's their own right to eventually balance the poll results if they feel it's better this way. They did it for 2 weeks what is the big deal. Where is the conspiracy against the manga reader ? We know nothing about the poll results so how can you know they didn't do the same for other series in the past. Didn't they decide to keep cross manage and cancel kurogane when this one was doing better according to the last tocs ? How do you explain that assassination classroom beat 15 year old series like naruto and one piece. Isn't it reasonable to think that one vote for a new serie weight more than old series ones.
Jump readers know that the popularity will affect greatly the future of the serie, that's enough for them to send poll because if they like a serie they need to make it known. After the editor still have their word to say and we can't feel betray or anything of something we don't know.

[Asgaroth]

Where is the conspiracy against the manga reader ?

Also, different genders and age groups are valued more than others in the vote count. So it's not like that the readers vote is fairly judged in the beginning.

[Drmke]

The only series I've seen that was noticeably "pimped" in the last 4 years was Kuroko no Basket, but that worked out more than the editors could have hope I imagine.

[meeedoooz]

The only series I've seen that was noticeably "pimped" in the last 4 years was Kuroko no Basket, but that worked out more than the editors could have hope I imagine.

what about toriko ? it was pimped more than any series i know

[perroloco]

@Drmke: ??? Where you not around when TORIKO started?

THAT WAS PIMPING, and it didn't work (as well) as it did with Kuroko (In fact I can't really see Kurokos pimping)..
Ohh.. and BLEACH too back in 2010 or 2011 it got like a CP every 2-3 weeks.. And mangas that get movie adaptations get a lot of PIMPing too, it all started with Strong World then Bleach and Naruto received that threatment *though not in the same vein as Strong World, IIRC Oda got to do like 3 straight weeks of covers and Color pages*

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Toriko pimped? what? It has always been a hit since the first chapter. It has always been popular since the beginning and because it was a great manga.

Japanese readers have always loved the manga.

[arsg]

It's silly to think the TOC has ever been a 100% perfect reflection of the reader poll results. It's mostly accurate but in the end the editors get the final say on what goes where. When it comes to laying out the TOC the polls aren't law, they just use it as a basis. It just gives us a rough idea on what's popular/unpopular.

[perroloco]

Toriko pimped? what? It has always been a hit since the first chapter. It has always been popular since the beginning and because it was a great manga.

Japanese readers have always loved the manga.

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No.. is this post for real? You are joking, right?

JUMP pimped TORIKO soooooooooooooo much, probably because they either wanted to erase from people minds the fact that the mangaka is a sex offender or because they really were longing for an action manga and lets face it TORIKO didn't live up to what WSJ wanted it to be, Assclass did waaay better with not nearly as much marketing involved and so did Bakuman.
Kuroko too.

TORIKO in the other hand had lots of exposure, heck one of its first Color pages had an aroma on it IIRC, this has never been done before (At least that I remember) in the history of WSJ (Dunno about other manga magazines though).


BTW I am not saying its good or bad, I wouldn't know since I never read it, but you can't deny it was heavily pimped to be the next big thing *As in Bleach-Naruto level* sadly the last thing that could have gone to those levels was D-Gray man but it really lost its stride with the mangakas schedule and changing to SQ.

Also PIMPing doesn''t mean its a bad manga.. It (from what I understand PIMPing is, since I am not a native english-speaker) is to receive way more exposure or be priviliged than other series. Toriko certainly had more exposure while other hits from the same time like Bakuman didn't had as much.