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Thread: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

  1. #886
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member FanOfAniManga's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    I've just finished reading the six chapters. And... I'm still standing by my word that it's like Kenichi, at least with the super strong girl and her grandfather running a school, this time a cooking school. I do like how Souma is a bit of a jerk, but he's too bold to give a damn. I guess you could even call him a "Jerk with a Heart of Gold", with the way he tries to keep his restaurant's reputation. Sometimes, you really need to be bold to the point of being a jerk to get things right.

    I also realize now that it's quite similar to AC; we have a mashup of two completely unrelated things that somehow seem to come together nicely. While AC has it between what it says on the label, assassinations and classrooms, Soma has it between cooking and ecchi. I wonder if this is going to be a recurring theme with new hits?
    Last edited by FanOfAniManga; January 14, 2013 at 07:41 PM.
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  2. #887
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    I would say that the ecchi is an add-on to the whole thing in the manga. It does take center stage sometime, one of my favorite scenes had ecchi, though:

    Spoiler show


    Of course it is obvious that it is not that much forced, as much as in any shounen I would say, it does not take from the quality of the series, which is good.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    I don't get it, what's the problem with a little ecchi? Isn't a little bit of skin usually a bonus, or are Jump manga so sacrosanct that all impure thoughts must be banished? Considering so many popular Jump comics are overtly, unapologetically homoerotic, isn't some fanservice a good a thing?

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    Yeah considering ALMOST EVERY protagonist in WSJ is a male superhero type character.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Galactic Tomahawk's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    It doesn't usually bother me unless it's really excessive, just not something I really read manga for. So I was naturally a little apprehensive going in when I didn't have a good impression of the series beyond "drawn by hentai artist".

    But it didn't turn out to be that big a deal and the guy's pretty clever about how he works it in to gags so I have no complaints.
    Last edited by Galactic Tomahawk; January 14, 2013 at 12:35 PM.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    @K-dom ehem..
    Yeah, I am reading it, I liked Yakitate so got interested in Souma..
    Anyway, sure it isnt as heavy in fan-service as To Love Ru but I think its the heaviest in fan-service JUMP has right now, 5 out of 6chapters have had at least some fan-service ecchi scene..

    Ok, I didnt read Pajama but IIRC it was an ecchi title, the majority of time those try to show shower scenes, upskirts and all that.. Shougeki no soma in the other hand shows ecchi via reactions to food.. Its obvious that is gonna be funny, but the real purpose its to showcase the artist abilities.

    Just think about it, why did JUMP made Masakazu Katsura make love-storirs when he wanted to do heroe mangas?
    Or why didn't Tsugumi Ohba drew Death Note by himself? In fact why does Takeshi Obata tends to co-work instead of making his story? Or why didn't Buronson drew Hokuto No Ken? Or why isn't Tetsuo Hara making any love-com manga? (BTW, I would sooooo read that lol).

    Heck.. Those are all self-answered questions, I am always pondering though why did Yabuki Kentaro only drew To Love Ru, I mean no offense but I think he could have written a good/better Love-com than TLR, the plot never moved and he draws girls veryyyy prettily.

    The answer is that those weren't their "talents", so like the old saying "If life gives you lemons make lemonaid", "if you get a hentai artist he better draw some naked chicks".

    BTW I couldnt care less about the ecchi, imo its a plus, kinda like the bishonenism of most JUMP titles is to fujoshis.

  8. #892
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by FanOfAniManga View Post
    I also realize now that it's quite similar to AC; we have a mashup of two completely unrelated things that somehow seem to come together nicely. While AC has it between what it says on the label, assassinations and classrooms, Soma has it between cooking and ecchi. I wonder if this is going to be a recurring theme with new hits?
    Ecchi is the genre, not the topic of the manga. So where exactly is the analogy?

    Yabuki is drawing ecchi, because that's what he's very good at while selling in numbers of non-hentai[mainstream=more], didn't you answer your own question with the previous paragraph? An action, rom-com with lots of ecchi is what the readers want, even when it fall off WSJ's radar due to "pressure" of being too ecchi for kids[my interpretation]. In Darkness he still draws them in even more perverted scenes, while moving on with the plot slowly. And his art became so good too, just look at how great he can draw clothes, best accomplished/presented with a big female cast, not a male one.

    Masakazu Katsura had great love stories, what's there to nag about? Oo
    Last edited by Schabrak; January 14, 2013 at 03:57 PM.
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    -.- I didnt nag, I love Katsura's love-coms, but he certainly didn't really wanted to do them, he wanted to do heroes manga, but JUMP wanted his skills at drawing beautiful asses--- I mean girls to payoff, so he was "forced" to draw rom-com.

    ---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

    And what I meant by Yabuki Kentaro is that yeah he is good at drawing (me thinks thats the only reason Black Cat was so damn popular in the US, I mean the covers looked pretty but the story.. Is cliche after cliche -they didn't call him king of plagiarism for nothing, right?)

    But no, the answer to this question is different. Lets say Takeshi Obata, I dont think he could have made Death Note or Hikago's story, I mean I am not saying he is a bad writer (though his writting/artist works have bombed in JUMP) so did the art which is ok since both Death Note and Hikago are great stories.
    But since its a artist/writer collaboration its 50/50.

    So lets suppose volume 1 sells dunno 1,000,000 copies, then the money its split in half. Half for the writter, half for the artist.

    Now, with To Love Ru's case, I mean we all know it sold so good because of Yabuki's art, its not so much that is such a great story, after all the story (and this is coming from a fan) is blatantly cliched, not having progress at all, and quite similar to other love-com stories like Urusei Yatsura.
    Heck, at the early parts of the story it had some (very little) development but after say volume 7 or so it just didn't move.. It just introduced new characters to Rito's harem.
    Darkness seems like a one-shot story after another with no real progression, it just focuses on one girl per month, example, January is a Lala chapter, Feb Haruna, March Yui, Apr Momo, etc.. Too bad it has taken too much interests in the Lolis -.-

    Can we honestly say this story couldn't have been produced out of Yabuki's mind?

    Or to put it more bluntly, lets say we are the mangakas, and TLR sells around 500,000 copies.. So he earns 40 yen per volume sold, 20,000,000 Yen, so $200,000 USD (Lets assume ok?). But only half that money is for Yabuki so $100,000.

    I mean as I have already say there are titles where I don't think the artist could have done the writers work, Hokuto No Ken, Death Note, Hikaru No Go, Bakuman, Ashita No Joe to name a few, the writers work was great, but I mean TLR is so simple that Yabuki should have done it alone.

    I know Yabuki at the time of TLR's beginnings had a new born daughter/son but I mean.. He could have drawn the names for next chapter while taking a shit.. Yeah the story is that simple, and don't even bother reading it, just skip through the pretty pictures.

    That's what I tried to convey in my post.


    As for To Love Ru's cancellation/drop out of JUMP well.. There are lots of rumors, even some saying it was because of an extra-marital affair Yabuki's wife had with a dude, too lazy to check right now. Btw supposedly Haruna was based to Yabuki's ex-wife. It ranked not-to hot because IIRC kids didn't wanna vote for it becuase it was shameful to vote for an ecchi, but it sold good enough to continue.

    Anyway, I think I kinda got off-topic.. -.-
    Lets continue with the debate about Shougeki No Soma being ecchi or not? I mean because a manga with 5 out of 6 chapters out having ecchi scenes is TOTALLY not ecchi.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    I don't think that fanservice is a problem, but a cooking story with a main character who from the beginning is the best (even if we do see their fail experiments with news tastes), repeating the same formula chapter by chapter... Personally, I find it boring, stops being funny after second or third time. Anyway, I don't care while not canceled another better, like Cross Manage

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by perroloco View Post
    ...
    To-Love-Ru may doesn't have a good story development, but thats not everything that matters to such a story. the idea for ecchi scenes and the character/types of the girls are also important, maybe even more. you also doesn't know if he done the character design 100% by himself or if the author told him to change parts. "make her hair longer, eyes cat-like" and so on. he may can draw things in a great way, but who knows how much i thought of himself.

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  14. #896
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by perroloco View Post
    @K-dom ehem..
    Yeah, I am reading it, I liked Yakitate so got interested in Souma..
    Anyway, sure it isnt as heavy in fan-service as To Love Ru but I think its the heaviest in fan-service JUMP has right now, 5 out of 6chapters have had at least some fan-service ecchi scene..

    Ok, I didnt read Pajama but IIRC it was an ecchi title, the majority of time those try to show shower scenes, upskirts and all that.. Shougeki no soma in the other hand shows ecchi via reactions to food.. Its obvious that is gonna be funny, but the real purpose its to showcase the artist ability.
    If I remembef right chapters 4 and 5 had no ecchi scenes. Limiting the ecchi to the reactions is a great idea and I hope they stick it to that. First it limits it to a reasonable amount, second the ecchi seems less superfetuous. The problem of underpants scenes is that they have no purpose and I personally don't see the interest one can have in them apart from underwear fetishists. That's why even if Souma's artist knows how to draw pretty girls, he was clever enough to make is manga more than that and look for a public bigger than panties afficionados.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    @Asgharoth:
    the idea for ecchi scenes and the character/types of the girls are also important, maybe even more.

    Seems like the work of an editor and assistants.
    I am sure slice-of-life mangaka do this too, if Bakuman is of any indication, like how Ashirogi talked about what to do next on their mangas and their editor/assistants giving out ideas. Like a rain-of-ideas.
    As for the characters, they are just cliches, archetypes.
    Clumsy Lala, Gender-bender Riko, Little sister Mikan, Class-president Yui, etc.. You get the idea.

    you also doesn't know if he done the character design 100% by himself or if the author told him to change parts. "make her hair longer, eyes cat-like" and so on. he may can draw things in a great way, but who knows how much i thought of himself.


    Again this seems more like and editor's job than a co-author. Although tbh I think Saki Hasemi (TLR's writter) is also an illustrator that worked on Black Cat's anime adaptation, so maybe Saki did Lala's and other characters designs.. But I mean Yabuki didn't need a chara-designer either, he is great designing characters.

    Kinda like how Kishimoto's author told Kishi that Naruto needed a rival.. And thus Sasuke was born.

    As for Shougeki No Souma:
    I'd be very surprised if the manga doesn't get more ecchi, not as much as TLR, but a little more.
    Last edited by perroloco; January 14, 2013 at 05:26 PM.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    Saki Hasemi was one of Yabuki's assistants for Black Cat. There is a very good chance that both of them work on the story and art together. As for Shougeki, just because the artist did hentai doesn't mean they have to focus on ecchi stuff. The author/artist of Yotusba& used to draw hentai and I don't think any of his serialized stuff has any ecchi at all. For the most part authors are never forced to draw something that they don't want to, though there are probably cases where this does happen.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by perroloco View Post
    @Asgharoth: Seems like the work of an editor and assistants.
    maybe... there are even super successfull writers who let their next book write by ghost writers. we don't know how much who did. saying the author didn't think of anything or that much is as true as any other wild guess. he may describes the panel, because yabuki has no sense for composition. what do i know what they do but they them fine to work together, otherwise he wouldn't have dropped drawing other mangas to return to to-love-ru.

    i just think working together on a manga could be a better thing to do than working alone on it. you could get more ideas, have shared responsibility and only half of the work in a already full packed schedule. half the money doesn't matter at the sum they gain like obhata.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2012-2013] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by dumbyugi View Post
    For the most part authors are never forced to draw something that they don't want to, though there are probably cases where this does happen.
    They are kind of forced to draw something that can get popular, if that wasn't so they plot of the one-shots to a full series adaption wouldn't change so much, if not to accommodate tips of the editors, polls, etc. Doesn't work so with every manga, just more likely within WSJ.

    Only to do a real parody of Tenchi Muyo! later on. :P Azumanga Daioh had it's certain fan-sevice elements, Yotsubato! has no need for that stuff being pure cute comedy. But that's for another thread and another time.
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