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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Re-reading Claymore i find some plot holes. I'm right or there is an explanation for these happenings ?
1)Why claymore that kill humans are executed ? The organization doesn't care about humans.
Maybe the rule was made to calm people ? But all people are always scared by claymores and only one man knows the rule ! The organization marketing is very bad
2)Galatea is spying Clare, Miria, Helen and Denev when they fight against the six arms awakened. Why ? Rubel has hidden the partial awakened claymores ! Or the MiB with Galatea is another spy ?
3)Galatea saves Clare from Dauf. Riful doesn't capture them because she doesn't want to show her power to Alicia, who is spying her. But Galatea was searching for Clare. How Alicia could know that she would meet Riful ?
And Riful appears worried about Alicia. So she knows her power. But when the twins comes to kill her she is surprised ! So she don't know them !
4)Rafaela doesn't work for the organization for a long time.
Why ? She is N.1 ! Why they wasted a so powerful warrior ? And why, when she comes back they give her the N.5 ?
5)The organization loses half of its warriors in the war of the north. I can understand that they want to kill Miria, because maybe they have discovered her investigations. But the others ? It's ridiculous that 23 (23 !!!) warriors are considered dangerous for the organization !
6)Why Isley doesn't ask Priscilla to help him against the Abyssal-feeders ?
7)Ok, this is not a plot hole... but if Claymore are indestructible, why nobody create an armor using the same metal ?
All of those things can be explained.
1. To keep up the appearance that the organization cares about people.
2. They were troublemakers anyways and a nuisance to the Organization.
3. The Organization probably knew the location of Riful the whole time and were just keeping tabs on her by sending warriors to their death. Plus Riful only knew that she was being watched by "someone", she didn't know who it was that was sizing her up.
4. Because Rafaela was part of a failed experiment and a disgrace to the Organization. She still had some use so she wasn't executed but she was banished. She only came back because the Organization was at a vulnerable state after numbers 1-5 were killed.
5. The organization doesn't give a shit about their warriors, they just sent enough warriors to stall the advance of Isley's army. They needed more time to complete Alicia and Beth.
6. Because Priscilla is horribly unstable and if she lost control she would probably kill everyone. Isley was afraid of this so he kept her out of it.
7. Maybe the metal is difficult to mold? And the organization seems to be the only ones with access to it and they don't care enough about the warriors to make indestructible armor for them.
Last edited by Claymore1; July 07, 2014 at 02:25 PM.
2) Ok, problem resolved
3) I don't think that Alicia spies Riful all the time and to force Riful to show her power they need somebody so powerful to defeat Dauf. It' s very strange that Galatea arrives exactly in that moment !
And Riful was worried from that "somebody": if she doesn't know him why ? At that time nobody was stronger than an Abyssal.
4)If she still had some use why she was banished ? A N.1 is never useless
5)They don't knew if Isley wanted to destroy the organization. But they know that Isley could destroy the 24 warriors in 5 minutes. How many time they earned ? 3 days ? i don't think that Alicia and Beth completed their training in 3 days ! lol
And if isley wanted to destroy the Organization they could block him when his army had taken the road to the East. Fight in the North has no sense. Ground hasn't defensive value when fighters are claymores and awakened.
6) Yes. Probably you have right here.
7) If the metal is difficult to mold how can they forge the swords ? But yes, probably the organization has no interest to protect the warriors.
3. Galatea was tracking Clare. And Riful could feel Alicia's powerful aura.
4. She was banished because it was her fault, her weakness, that Destroyed half the organization when Luciella awakened. But she was still obedient to the organization and did what they said. She caused a huge issue for them. A normal warrior would have been executed. However, a lot of effort went into the creating of Rafaela and Luciella, so she was allowed to live, but in exile.
5. The Invasion of Pieta took a few days, plus think of the time it took all the warriors to travel to Pieta, and the Warriors that were there before. And don't forget the time it took for the ABs to even reach the organization, half a continent away. It probably gave them a few weeks.
7. Making a straight piece of metal is easier than form fitting it to someone's body.
Last edited by Claymore1; July 07, 2014 at 05:01 PM.
First of all, please read the manga again as most of what you wrote can be answered if you just reread the manga.. But I will help Claymore1 in this:
1- Add to what Claymore1 wrote, the Organization used this as a way to get rid of warriors! Warriors rebel all the time, and they need a good excuse to kill them, without making things suspicious.. Just like Priscilla tried to kill Teresa because she killed humans, meanwhile all warriors were actually killing infected humans! Warriors rebel and they use many other ways like claiming that they awakened like Dietrich and Anastasia..
3- The Organization sent Jean and her team followed by Alicia and Beth.. They sent Jean so that Riful fights her (and she will definitely win) but they miscalculated that Dauff will be the one fighting.. So in short they sacrificed Jean and her team just for Alicia to try to measure Riful's powers and adjust her awakened form to be suited to kill her. This just happened to be where Galatea was searching for Clare too.. As Clare was out of their calculations (cloaked) but doesn't mean that she wasn't leaving a trail (as she was talking to humans all the way).. So Galatea was following Clare who happened to be where Jean's party was.. And apparently Alicia.. Even Clare didn't know that Jean was there until she saw her..
4- Do you risk having a warrior who can awaken any moment due to huge trauma?? She lost her sister and under normal circumstances, she would awaken any time.. That's why the Organization kept her away until she was needed.. And she wasn't given N.1 or 2, because they didn't want to get her much powers or hopes, so that her emotional state remains as is..
5- The idea of the north was for two reasons, to buy Alicia time to complete the last 5% needed, and get rid of the trouble making warriors.. Not to mention, to decrease as much ABs as possible, which they were successful in (they killed 9 ABs).. And all those warriors would be useless if the Organization used them to fight the awakened beings in their base..
7- They could mold metals with their awakened form, but like Claymore1 said, they don't care about their warriors.. This is an experimental land.. So they should die..
Thanks for your answers !
I like talking about plot holes in movies, comics, books...
I don't want to destroy this manga, i like it and i would like it also if these were really plot holes.
Now I answer to your points:
1)In the entire series only one man (the boss of the rogues, killed by Teresa) know that Claymores can't kill humans. All the others are afraid by Claymores. So the rule isn't created for humans. It's created for Claymores.
But... a warrior can be a problem without killing humans (Miria) and can kill humans without rebel against the Organization (Ophelia). This rule doesn't solve the problem. It's more simple to send troublemakers warriors to suicide missions. And the fact that yoma are infected humans has no importance: th Organization can't admit it !
Dietrich and Anastasia are claimed awakened ? When ? I don't remember.
3) Yes, probably the Organization thought that Riful would have shown her power to fight against Jean... but they undevalued Dauf ! Galatea's coming was only a fluke. Ok this is resolved
But there is another problem: why Riful didn't want to show her power ? A normal N.1 is not dangerous for an Abyssal. AO think that nobody can be more powerful than themselves. Why Riful didn't kill (or capture) Galatea, Clare, Jean and also Alicia ? There's only one answer: she feared Alicia. Riful knew that Alicia could awaken and came back... so why she was surprised when this happened ?
4)If Rafaela could awaken any moment the better choice was to kill her, or to take her under strict control... not to allow her to wander around in the island ! And she was cloaked, so she could disappear easily.
The problem here is that Organization never trust the warriors and uses them as tools... but they trust Rafaela ! They killed Teresa for less !
5)Now I suppose that the time the Organization needed was X. The time the awakens needed to arrive to the Organization base is Y. X>Y
So the Organization must block Isley's army for (X - Y). How many time was it ? We don't know, but it's impossible that Organization had thought:"NOOO !!! Isley will arrive 3 hours too soon !" Their calculations were probably in days. Could the 24 warriors stop Isley for more than 1 hour ? No. So, if Isley would arrive X days too soon it's useless sending the warriors to the North. Don't forget that Organization didn't know that Isley had no intention to fight against the Claymores.
And why the warriors can't fight in front of Organization base ?
7)Claymores aren't rough pieces of metal. They are very sharp and well-constructed. This means that mainland smiths can work the metal very well.
But I have no doubts about the explanation that Organization doesn't care about the warriors, so this is resolved
Obviously if the Mainland warriors will enter the manga and they will not use armors... it will be a plot hole
That would explain how the Org made them and all, yoki-infused-enhancement.
(Since Priscilla proved that a blade can be turned to a part of the awakening, then what she did was just going to the next step beyond infusion and she simply merged with it and made it a complete part of her yoki and self. so that´s possible... and it´s not difficult to imagine that other weapons, shields, armor and the like can be infused in a similar way as these swords were, it´s all a matter of shape and form of the object.)
Just a theory though...
That's really a cool Avatar. The good, old Panzerkampfwagen VI
Riful wanted the others to grow in power and didn't want to fight Alicia at that time. It's that simple.Quote:
The organization did what they did. Also Teresa was a trouble maker (and killed many humans) and wasn't obedient like Rafaela. They put to much effort into creating Rafaela to just kill her, but they also couldn't let her stay after what happened.Quote:
Fighting too close to their base is really stupid. You wouldn't want have a battlefield in your backyard. And still, the warriors were sent to buy time. Alicia was almost complete, and she needed just a little bit more time to train.Quote:
Teresa created too much noise and was disobedient. She meant to kill all thoseQuote:
humans and didn't care who was watching. She was out of control and needed to be dealt with. Rafaela was still obedient to the organization and did what they wanted. I've said this many times, I don't know what is so difficult to understand about this.
No, you are wrong, they certainly did buy time. What do you think Pieta was? You don't seem to understand the amount of time was gained by it. First you have the Warriors that were there to begin with (Eva, or whatever). Then you have the 24 warriors that had to arrive. They couldn't all arrive in just one day, you have to include travel time. It took all of them at least a week to get there. Then you have Pieta and the battle itself. They were there a day before the scouting ABs attacked and probably a few days before the real battle. Then you have to include the time it takes that huge horde of ABs to travel across half the continent to get to the organization. It obviously bought the Org. a few weeks more to train Alicia. Hell, they might have only needed one week.Quote:
All the "plot holes" you first mentioned were not actually plot holes and could be easily explained.
Riful wanted a poweful Claymore to awaken. Galatea was a powerful Claymore. To capture her Riful needed to show her power to the Organization.
She was running away ? She was afraid of the Organization ? Where, in the entire manga, an AO shows he fears the Organization ?
Galatea: she failed her mission and she lied to hide that: forgiven.
Teresa: she killed some rogues, she isn't out of control (she came back to the Organization to be executed, she changes idea only seing Clare crying): executed
Organization didn't care about humans, so they didn't kill Teresa for this.
You says that the rule was created to kill troublemakers warriors, but Teresa did NOTHING against the Organization.
They could easily hide the murder of the rogues.
Teresa was the best warrior. She killed some humans, but this doesn't mean that she was disobedient.
A warrior could be a problem only if:
-she investigated about the Oganization or
-she didn't complete her mission or
-she was near to awaken.
Killing humans, from Organization point of view, means nothing.
The time the awakened need to arrive to Pieta and the time they need to arrive to Organization headquarter can't be changed. It depend from space.
If they take one week from Pieta to the Organization, they take one week ! The battle doesn't change the time for travel !
The only difference is the time of the battle.
You can't slow an avalanche with a wooden fence. And you can't say that you you slow it for 3 days, because you have put 3 days to build the fence !
The avalanche comes when it comes. It's not influenced by what you have done before.
It's like a child constantly asking "Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?" to everything you say.
Just because someone runs away doesn't mean they are afraid. Riful is smart, she had some sort of plan in mind. At the time she was only trying to leave the fight, she didn't want to fight Alicia at that time either. Not a plot hole.Quote:
It is not so easy to cover up a claymore killing a large group of humans. And Teresa was a trouble maker and the organization didn't like her. They wanted to kill her to simply get rid of her. They already had someone strong in mind to take her place (Priscilla).Quote:
Galatea was there 'eye' and a useful piece for the organization. They couldn't kill her yet, but when they developed a new 'eye' they were going to get rid of her.
Well it obviously did buy time because it was just long enough for Alicia to be completed. The ABs had to have slowed during Pieta, just think how they all backed off when Rigaldo showed. And Clare fought him for a while before killing him. It is not a plot hole you are just ignoring facts.Quote:
If your history teacher ask you: "Why Japan attacked USA in 1941 ?" you can't say: "they want to do it and they have a plan". You must explain the reasons.
You haven't explained why Teresa was a troublemaker yet. She completed all her missions and never disobey orders. Her only fault was killing humans, a thing that has no importance for the Organization.
N.1 warriors are very useful and rare. You don't throw away one of them only because you have another N.1
The fight against Rigaldo couldn't go on for more than 20 minutes. How many time for the entire battle ? Not the time that Claymores spent in Pieta, only the time of the battle. No more than 1 day.
And the Claymores were lucky. If Isley had fought, he would have killed all the warriors in few minutes.
So the Organization sacrificed half of its warriors knowing that probably the time they would buy was few minutes ?
And they don't know Isley true goal. There is no reason to fight him in the North and not on the road to the East.
-Riful reasons for not show her power.
-Teresa actions that made her a trouble for the Organization (killing humans is not an answer )
-How the 24 warriors could survive against Isley + Rigaldo + 27 awakened for more than 1 hour.
-Reasons that make impossible or disadvantageous fighting on the road from Pieta to the Organization headquarter.
All These things were stated in the manga
Riful didn't like having her power measured and left. She also had to take care of Dauf. If She left to fight Alicia Dauf might have died or been killed in the crossfireQuote:
And just because she knew of Alicia's existance doesn't mean she couldn't be surprised when she actually faced her and saw how strong Alicia was.
Members of the Organization saw her kill humans, or at least saw the aftermath. The Organization doesn't care if they kill humans, but they do care if the claymore's kill humans. The fact that The Organization is the one sending out yoma in the world is completely unknown to anyone. But if people fear claymores too much to ask the Org for their help then the Org with lose money.Quote:
And Teresa always unnecessarily scared the people. She also suspected the Organization of doing terrible things like destroying towns that didn't pay.
Plus she was known as a problem child when she was a trainee.
And then there is Galatea. She had been around for too long and was getting to smart. The Organization didn't want that but they had to wait for the new eye to be ready before they eliminated Galatea.
I can't forget about Rafeala either. They didn't want to risk killing her because she might just awaken and destroy the rest of the Organization. They probably didn't have any warriors that could face her either.
They wanted her back because they were left in a dangerous situation where they didn't have any strong warriors left.
Miria stated that they were there to buy time. She also said that most of the troublemakers were sent there to.Quote:
The Organization even said that it bought them just enough time to complete Alicia
Do you not know anything about war? It is much better to not fight in your own country because it could cause extraordinary damage to your country. Having a huge battle right next to the Organization would have been a terrible idea. If it is too close to home then it would be very dangerous. The farther away the fighting, the better.Quote:
Last edited by Claymore1; July 09, 2014 at 06:44 PM.