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Thread: Theories about Mainland.

  1. #46
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner IDC's Avatar
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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Many of the ideas in this thread are pretty much in line with my own idea about the Claymore world: the current continent is an analogue of Australia in size and role, with the mainland as the Old World equivalent, etc..

    I also think that the science practiced by OrgFed side is Alchemy; many of their experiment and work have some parallel with the historical idea of alchemy:
    - The MIB's apparent longevity and survival in spite of extensive disfigurements could be the result of the Elixir of Life or an All-curing Panacea(sp?), sought after by the historical alchemist.
    - The indestructible metal that made up the sword could be the result of Metal Transmutation.
    - The historical Alchemists are also well-known for their rigorous experiments and records.
    - The experiment on creating Silver-Eye Warriors and Awakened Being could be inspire by the alchemist's quest to create artificial life with Homunculus.

    And the historical alchemists sometime stumble upon some unexpected result when they was mixing up different ingredients, one of the most notable is GUNPOWDER.

    Currently in-story there is nothing that suggest that gunpowder exist in this universe, but I would not be surprise in the least if the mainland army show up with muskets and cannons or maybe even something more exotic like Greek Fire.

    That could even be how the OrgFed managed to hold off the DoD in the first place, before they have AB. However, gunpowder and gun are much easier to copy than DoD. Guns and cannons can be captured and reuse, gunpowder formula can be stolen by spy. When the DoDFed have access to the same weapons as the OrgFed, the OrgFed would be in a dire spot because they don't have DoD on their side and so they desperately need something to level the playing field. Enter the AB research.

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  3. #47
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Quote Originally Posted by IDC View Post
    Many of the ideas in this thread are pretty much in line with my own idea about the Claymore world: the current continent is an analogue of Australia in size and role, with the mainland as the Old World equivalent, etc..

    I also think that the science practiced by OrgFed side is Alchemy; many of their experiment and work have some parallel with the historical idea of alchemy:
    - The MIB's apparent longevity and survival in spite of extensive disfigurements could be the result of the Elixir of Life or an All-curing Panacea(sp?), sought after by the historical alchemist.
    - The indestructible metal that made up the sword could be the result of Metal Transmutation.
    - The historical Alchemists are also well-known for their rigorous experiments and records.
    - The experiment on creating Silver-Eye Warriors and Awakened Being could be inspire by the alchemist's quest to create artificial life with Homunculus.

    And the historical alchemists sometime stumble upon some unexpected result when they was mixing up different ingredients, one of the most notable is GUNPOWDER.

    Currently in-story there is nothing that suggest that gunpowder exist in this universe, but I would not be surprise in the least if the mainland army show up with muskets and cannons or maybe even something more exotic like Greek Fire.

    That could even be how the OrgFed managed to hold off the DoD in the first place, before they have AB. However, gunpowder and gun are much easier to copy than DoD. Guns and cannons can be captured and reuse, gunpowder formula can be stolen by spy. When the DoDFed have access to the same weapons as the OrgFed, the OrgFed would be in a dire spot because they don't have DoD on their side and so they desperately need something to level the playing field. Enter the AB research.
    Congratz on first post, Welcome

    I agree with you on the fact that the Org could be using "alchemy"

    But the last part i dont think they are using them to hold off the DoD and Asarakam, i think its more likely that they Org outnumber the otherside, i also think there war is similar to the "cold war" of our world....they are just fighting endless frivolous battles until one side can finally find a way to beat the other....without insuring there own destruction( Example if the DoD attacked the org straight out without a plan then the org would simply awaken all its warriors and the DoD would have hundreds of strong enemy's to face.

    I also think there is a "mainland force" like Claymores who are really old/strong i would imagine they would have made atlest 1 warrior who was worth keeping around.......

    Small question for anyone else...do the Asarakam and DoD emit yoki?
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

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  5. #48
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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    @IDC: did you mean that the Claymore Island is as big as Australia? The area is really large hehe, I don't think 47 Claymores could patrol it all, even if they were all super fast. But then again the Island is big enough to have a snowy northern part and a relatively tropical southern part

    @number12michael: There's nothing explicit in the manga about the DoD's or Askaram emitting youki. It would be weird if they didn't though, unless youki is a result only obtained from fusing DoD and Askaram flesh into a parasite and having the parasite possess someone. Then the chemical nature of the interaction between parasite and human flesh becomes infected flesh that produces youki.

    Maybe you could imply that Miria was lead to the DoD room by sensing the youki of the DoD, if it had any? I think someone argued for this point before

    And generally on the subject of awakening, since Rimuto said that the awakening processes for Claymores and Askaram were different, I think what he means is that Askaram 'awaken' via a natural biological process whereas Claymore awakening is synthetic. Its possible that the Org wanted to simulate that natural process. In particular, what I think happens with a Claymore awakening is the compete synthesis of infected youma flesh and human flesh, speaking purely biologically. So after awakening there is no biological distinction between youma/human, like there is with a Claymore who is a biological human with their front held open and stuffed with youma flesh. The higher the degree of complete synthesis, the better awakened you become. 'Hate' probably has a role in the synthesis transformation.

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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    So is anyone else expecting ( hoping is better word ) for some Mainland interference in the current event's of "Claymore"?

    I am hoping to see some shock troops and maybe even "special" troops that Miria mentioned.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    So is anyone else expecting ( hoping is better word ) for some Mainland interference in the current event's of "Claymore"?

    I am hoping to see some shock troops and maybe even "special" troops that Miria mentioned.
    i think the Org will return(with a new "head") and they will bring with them 47 new claymore(ones from the main land), i think they will show up after the current events unfold...

    THAT OR

    as these events unfold we will see an unknown warrior watching the battle, we will see her turn around and report what she sensed(the new Eye) to a man in black(probably one we had seen before...i would love for it to be orsay lol)
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    I love the second opinion as well, but I would love to see Claymores engaged against Mainland troops.
    If they really want to be free they need to choose side at the war and make sure their side wins it.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Id love it if, after the whole Priscilla incident ends, a single Awakened Asarakam appeared before the Ghosts and End Generation and started wiping them out. Then those who manage to survive against it, and defeat it, are taken to the Mainland by a group of Warriors ?

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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    I don't see how that would be possible at all?

    The most probable scenario I see here is appearing of Organization Mainland force and battle between them and the End Generation Warriors and Ghosts.
    You can see that Daae is not concerned at all about his future, even if he knows what will happened once the Ghosts finish with Priscilla. He must except reinforcements from the Mainland, Rubel too.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    If in the beginning the other mainland faction sent only Rubel to the Claymore continent that likely means they recognized it as, at first, only having the potential to be determinative of the outcome of the mainland war, and wanted Rubel to keep tabs on it and perhaps prevent it from becoming a real threat. Based on this, there will only be overt mainland intervention from Rubel's side in the claymore continent if he thinks it is now a real threat. I don't think he thinks it is, because he knows the remaining claymores are not 'warlike'; he understands their motivations, actually used those motivations to bring down the Org's experiment.

    As for the Org's faction, they need to decide whether it is worth sending the resources to contain the situation. Daae and the guys seemed pretty impressed with the destroyer. Dae also seems impressed with Priss. This means two things: 1) the claymores are now pretty powerful and would require quite some resources to deal with; and 2) you don't want them going over to the mainland because they are likely to ally against you. Maybe from their perspective it's not worth crushing them, because they are unlikely to go over to the mainland of their own volition (based on their motivations), and all the Org really needs to start up the program again is the research data, so as long as they extract Dae, they're fine and it's a lot cheaper for them if the claymores aren't going to pose a threat.

    What would be interesting is if the Org's faction thought they could somehow subdue the remaining Claymores and thought they would ultimately be determinative of the war, and sent in a huge contingent of mainland forces to retrieve them, and Rubel's faction went in to stop them, so the war would continue on the Claymore continent over the Claymores themselves. Then Clare and so on would have no choice but to fight. In this scenario I think they might ally with the Askaram, who I think could teach them a lot about themselves, since I think what the Org were trying to achieve with them was a controllable synthetic version of the Askaram's natural awakening process.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urfaust View Post
    If in the beginning the other mainland faction sent only Rubel to the Claymore continent that likely means they recognized it as, at first, only having the potential to be determinative of the outcome of the mainland war, and wanted Rubel to keep tabs on it and perhaps prevent it from becoming a real threat. Based on this, there will only be overt mainland intervention from Rubel's side in the claymore continent if he thinks it is now a real threat. I don't think he thinks it is, because he knows the remaining claymores are not 'warlike'; he understands their motivations, actually used those motivations to bring down the Org's experiment.
    This is kind of Rubel's entire point - to sabotage the experiment in any way possible. And by aiding Ghosts over the years he in the end succeed it. But as long as Claymores and Ghosts are alive they represent not just potential enemies but also valuable resources toward Organisation struggle to create a perfect soldier who will turn the tide of the war.

    Quote Quote:
    As for the Org's faction, they need to decide whether it is worth sending the resources to contain the situation. Daae and the guys seemed pretty impressed with the destroyer. Dae also seems impressed with Priss. This means two things: 1) the claymores are now pretty powerful and would require quite some resources to deal with; and 2) you don't want them going over to the mainland because they are likely to ally against you. Maybe from their perspective it's not worth crushing them, because they are unlikely to go over to the mainland of their own volition (based on their motivations), and all the Org really needs to start up the program again is the research data, so as long as they extract Dae, they're fine and it's a lot cheaper for them if the claymores aren't going to pose a threat.
    It's more like this: it is not just worth sending force to deal with Claymores - it is necessary. Claymore experiment represents their only chance to win that war that lasts for 100 years, and you don't just abandon your only chance of winning this long and probably bloody war. You have also forgotten 3'rd point - Ghosts. If they contact Daae again and he tells them what Rubel told to him they will surely try to capture them. And you also forget one more thing: the possibility of mainland Claymores existence. Think about it, the only defense they have against Askaram is one of their soldiers awakening, but maybe they changed strategy so far. Maybe they too use Claymores, but in much larger number than 47 ( hundreds of thousands maybe ) to combat the Askaram, casualties are probably high but as long they can hold them it is worth the price. Now, this warriors veterans are probably much more powerful than even Miria and + they are probably indoctrinated into serving their faction. I see as great probability that this warriors are send to deal with the 'traitorous forces' on the island, they only need to send couple of those + some ordinary soldiers that can deal with humans and that's it.

    Quote Quote:
    What would be interesting is if the Org's faction thought they could somehow subdue the remaining Claymores and thought they would ultimately be determinative of the war, and sent in a huge contingent of mainland forces to retrieve them, and Rubel's faction went in to stop them, so the war would continue on the Claymore continent over the Claymores themselves. Then Clare and so on would have no choice but to fight. In this scenario I think they might ally with the Askaram, who I think could teach them a lot about themselves, since I think what the Org were trying to achieve with them was a controllable synthetic version of the Askaram's natural awakening process.
    Now this is quite possible and it would be awesome if it would happened for real.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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  17. #56
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    It's more like this: it is not just worth sending force to deal with Claymores - it is necessary. Claymore experiment represents their only chance to win that war that lasts for 100 years, and you don't just abandon your only chance of winning this long and probably bloody war. You have also forgotten 3'rd point - Ghosts. If they contact Daae again and he tells them what Rubel told to him they will surely try to capture them. And you also forget one more thing: the possibility of mainland Claymores existence. Think about it, the only defense they have against Askaram is one of their soldiers awakening, but maybe they changed strategy so far. Maybe they too use Claymores, but in much larger number than 47 ( hundreds of thousands maybe ) to combat the Askaram, casualties are probably high but as long they can hold them it is worth the price. Now, this warriors veterans are probably much more powerful than even Miria and + they are probably indoctrinated into serving their faction. I see as great probability that this warriors are send to deal with the 'traitorous forces' on the island, they only need to send couple of those + some ordinary soldiers that can deal with humans and that's it
    these are good points for sure but I think the truth of these claims all rest on the question of how original/unique the claymore experiment is. We can probably say for certain that half-awakening (like you pointed out) and Priscilla's endless youki (along with Riph's siphon ability) are new and important results from the experiment (judging from Daae's and Rubel's reactions). These could turn the tide of battle. But if they are so important, then you would need more than a couple of hypothetical veteran mainland claymores to deal with it, because clearly there wouldn't be any abilities like that on the mainland. Especially dealing with Priss's godlike ability. And yeah I forgot that the Org might need the physical specimens (like Daae said about investigating the fab four) in order to derive the data, so they would have to come in person and deal with it.

    I'd like to think that the claymore continent was an experiment that, while having a quite clear goal, also yielded some really beautiful and exotic results (often by accident), like a biotech lab with no ethics and given full license to do anything they liked, producing flowers that simply don't exist anywhere else in the world. So we got the AO's, Priscilla, HA's, the Destroyer, Riph, abyssal eaters (to a lesser and more stupid extent). And while not perhaps ultra-powerful in terms of strength (or maybe in that respect too) very varied and interesting. That type of thing (or what's left of it) would be difficult to deal with.

    Something as an aside: I question the claymore continent being the size of Australia. If it has roughly 47 regions, and they are roughly equal in size, it is difficult to conceive how the claymores could patrol it all. And they always seem to walk everywhere.

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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urfaust View Post
    Something as an aside: I question the claymore continent being the size of Australia. If it has roughly 47 regions, and they are roughly equal in size, it is difficult to conceive how the claymores could patrol it all. And they always seem to walk everywhere.
    Some of us meant it as a joke; others as a good reference or assumption. Don't take this the wrong way; just going to go through my thought process behind why I think it's logical.

    Really it is a question of how big does an island have to be in order to be classed as a continent or how far from other land masses to be classed as one. (though distance may not matter.)

    I don't think the uk, or japan, are classed as a continents, and Europe to Russia and down to India are one 'super' continent as is canada down to brazil. The smallest continent is clearly Austrilia.

    So in land volume thus size; it's Europe > Americas > Australlia > uk\japan. (claymore isn't set on earth or anything, but this could help us narrow down size.)

    So how big would Claymore continent be in that list?

    Clearly I doubt it would be as big as either Euro continent or america (47 area in those would be insane - thousands of areas could fit inside Europe and hundreads inside the americas.)

    Uk and japan are far too small. in my oppinion (simple because they ain't continents).

    Austraillia could be a decent size comparaison.

    As for walking everywhere; it balances out simply because we never see a claymore travelling anywhere, and they could simple run everywhere. Even briskly jogging, given some of the speeds some of them can do, could allow them to travel quite fast.

    Claire is not a good counter-arguemnt\example since she had raki in tow and had to pace herself to him.

    Also it is shown that small settlements are pretty much everywhere; Claymores are more often dispatched where humans are. 'Patrol their area' sounds like they walk a patrol - a set path that explores an area looking for trouble (like some kind of superhero)' , where in actual fact, they don't really patrol - they are sent from one town to the next or given a precise destination (such as, an awakened being in the mountains; not wandering far and wide, nor off the beaten path.)

    I can think of only a handfull of times when a claymore wandered into something she was not prepared by instruction for; even Renee who encountered Raki, had been specifically sent there to kill a Yoma - not out for a walk one day.

    Makes sense too considering no claymore has witnessed the MiB at work sowing Yoma.

    Now while in the claymore world, for continents, they could have diffrent ideas on size; but since this is a story that uses our use of language to tell the story I would like to think that the authors would stick to some universal ideas unless ortherwise stated. Such as say 'he picked up the telephone', in another world it might be their eqivilent of a bike, but unless I'm told 'that's actually a bike' I will assume it's a telephone in our understanding of what the word means.

    Edit: p.s. if the mainland is ever brought in it would be cool if Yagi\someone drew a world atlas so we can see the whole picture of how this world looks with a scale measure most atlases come with.
    Last edited by Decepticon; June 04, 2013 at 06:22 AM. Reason: grammer, and a wish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcor View Post
    Until (or should I say, unless) Yagi tells us otherwise, it could go either way. It's his story, afterall... so logic doesn't mean squat. But for argument's sake, assuming Yagi hasn't entirely given up on plot development, I'd prefer logic to... whim.

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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    I would love if Yagi decided to expand the whole Claymore world to the Mainland.
    There's a whole galaxy of opportunity there, but it seems like Yagi really won't do too much about it.
    Sure, he might show that it eventually gets resolved, but most of the manga will always be centered around Clare and Teresa no matter what.

    ^ The above is what I thought some 20 chapters ago.

    Then, the plot started to center less around Clare and more on multiple operations- the end of the Organization; Clare was even stuck inside some stupid cocoon for several chapters or so.
    Raki's face hasn't been seen in the last several chapters either, all we've had is Priscilla and AB fan-service with a bunch of Galatea talking and some Frisbee woman/monster thing with a kleptomaniac mind.

    Seeing as the whole Claymore story is now being put into context; I can tell with the whole HA and Soul Linking progress, maybe sooner or later Yagi will finally drop the nuclear bomb on the whole guessing situation and show a Mainland fleet of... AB?DoD?Asakaram?Humans?or....CLAYMORES DUNDUNDUNNNNN crossing through the ocean!

    Furthermore, it's scary and sad thinking about older Claymores who are much stronger. I mean, the whole Mainland Claymore fleet is composed on No. 1-tier warriors? I would hate it if some Claymore warrior turns out to be stronger than Teresa.


    There also seems to be some discussion on the size and location of the Claymore world.
    In terms of exact measurement, I seriously don't believe it should be compared to our world. The continents on Earth can be completely different from what Yagi depicts the Claymore/Mainland world to be like.
    For all we know, their world may involve multiple dimensions- 4D, anyone?!

    Even with that, the Claymore world apparently has four distinguishable corners with different characteristics. Though for an approximate estimate, Australia does sound pretty decent. Yet I believe the island to be much, much larger. Seeing some of those ABs fly around, the island should at least be the size of Pangaea for them not to fly off the island and into the Mainland. In that case, the whole world should be the size of our solar system, and the Mainland is the Sun.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Nanozom's Avatar
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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urfaust View Post
    these are good points for sure but I think the truth of these claims all rest on the question of how original/unique the claymore experiment is. We can probably say for certain that half-awakening (like you pointed out) and Priscilla's endless youki (along with Riph's siphon ability) are new and important results from the experiment (judging from Daae's and Rubel's reactions). These could turn the tide of battle. But if they are so important, then you would need more than a couple of hypothetical veteran mainland claymores to deal with it, because clearly there wouldn't be any abilities like that on the mainland. Especially dealing with Priss's godlike ability. And yeah I forgot that the Org might need the physical specimens (like Daae said about investigating the fab four) in order to derive the data, so they would have to come in person and deal with it.
    Are you aware that there is a fanfic where just this scenario has happened?
    (I am writing it, sure, but I have been working on it for one and a half year...)
    It´s called the "Silver-Eyed Angel"
    And it is a huge expanded version of the Claymore world, alternative universe that derives from chapter 126 where Cassandra was never possessed by Priscilla and the Org sent their forces to deal with the traitors, that takes place 500 years after the Failed Traitor Rebellion that Miria led.
    You have to see the story for yourself...
    Last edited by Nanozom; June 10, 2013 at 04:10 AM.

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    Re: Theories about Mainland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    Then, the plot started to center less around Clare and more on multiple operations- the end of the Organization; Clare was even stuck inside some stupid cocoon for several chapters or so.
    Raki's face hasn't been seen in the last several chapters either, all we've had is Priscilla and AB fan-service with a bunch of Galatea talking and some Frisbee woman/monster thing with a kleptomaniac mind.

    Seeing as the whole Claymore story is now being put into context; I can tell with the whole HA and Soul Linking progress, maybe sooner or later Yagi will finally drop the nuclear bomb on the whole guessing situation and show a Mainland fleet of... AB?DoD?Asakaram?Humans?or....CLAYMORES DUNDUNDUNNNNN crossing through the ocean!
    My thought exactly.

    Quote Quote:
    Furthermore, it's scary and sad thinking about older Claymores who are much stronger. I mean, the whole Mainland Claymore fleet is composed on No. 1-tier warriors? I would hate it if some Claymore warrior turns out to be stronger than Teresa.
    This is also highly possible, we will just have to wait and see. But I agree.


    Quote Quote:
    There also seems to be some discussion on the size and location of the Claymore world.
    In terms of exact measurement, I seriously don't believe it should be compared to our world. The continents on Earth can be completely different from what Yagi depicts the Claymore/Mainland world to be like.
    For all we know, their world may involve multiple dimensions- 4D, anyone?!

    Even with that, the Claymore world apparently has four distinguishable corners with different characteristics. Though for an approximate estimate, Australia does sound pretty decent. Yet I believe the island to be much, much larger. Seeing some of those ABs fly around, the island should at least be the size of Pangaea for them not to fly off the island and into the Mainland. In that case, the whole world should be the size of our solar system, and the Mainland is the Sun.
    Let's not get over ourselves....
    People are discussing because they didn't read the originally posted - Claymore continent is slightly bigger in size than Australia, not that it is the same as Australia.
    Everything we saw so far is proof that their world is like ours, so no 3D or another dimension - just one big political game and entire continent suffering as result of that.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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