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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
1. Through another Hatsu designed by one of the game creators, makes Razor responsible for all Nen Emission in the game; Everything on GI besides the Geography and maybe the towns were Nen. And Razor being an administration of the game was soley responsible for all Emission Nen. You cann put that into your own perspective of how much Nen that means he has.
2. More than Half the Phantom Troupe approached GI the illegal way and was met by Razor. 5 or 6 Spiders not entirely sure of their #'s but damn near any Nen match if it's 1 vs many; it's suicide but Sphinx acknowledge his strenght and the other agree to take the legal way in avoding confrontation. That says Alot!
3. A Nen Volleyball Game vs Actualy Nen Combat are two entirely different things. Razor was never gonna kill Gon he used his real strenght on a serve which is somewhat comparable Nen combat seeing it was life threatening. But it took the likes of Gon,Killua, and a broken Fingered Hisoka to stop a simple enhanced nen ball....As Strong as Hisoka is he's obviously physically weaker than Razor and could never catch anything Razor throws at him full strenght.
4. When I look back on how strong Netero is. Ging being 1 of the top 5 Nen users and Netero claiming to not even hold a spot there anymore, and seeing Razor's position at GI. Razor mopps up Uvo with Low difficulty.
5. Nothing is guranteed in a Nen battle. But I see Razor with the higher amount of AOP, more succifient MOP and AOP compared to Uvo who lashes out and is a Tank. I feel like Emission user are more refined tanks. But Razor Nen wise is just better than Uvo. Uvo imo is only slightly stronger than Razor i doubt he'll be faster or smarter.
We all have our opinions. Uvo is a enhancer master with no variations to his Hatsu soley Reinforcement to a absurd level. His Strenght isn't going to do him any good against somebody whose superior on terms of Nen, not far behind in Strenght and a much more flexible Hatsu...
Uvo doesn't fair we'll against flexible power types.
According to Wing, Enhancers don't need any fancy Hatsu or flexible Nen. Because once they master Enhancement, they have the perfect combination of unstoppable offense, unbreakable defense, and a superb healing factor. Also, there's no one to say that Razor is superior in terms of Nen. Just because he chose to develop a fancy Hatsu, doesn't mean he's a better Nen user. Remember, Nen depends entirely on what makes you feel comfortable. If Uvo is okay with just power, then he's all the more powerful.
Furthermore, Chrollo stated that Uvogin is a dominant Nen user, and that only Manipulators, Conjurers, and to some extent, Specialists can take him down. Razor is an Emitter who relies solely on Nen Balls as a mean of offense. In a battle between pure Aura\Aura Enhanced attacks, Uvogin won't lose. He was able to easily block an Anti-Tank Bazooka(which is far more powerful than the attacks of an Emission Chimera Ant, Brovoda\Bloster) with little to no damage. Even Kurapika was intimidated by the sheer power of Uvogin and was not willing to take him on until he realized that he was a member of the Phantom Troupe(thus, giving him the advantage thanks to Chain Jail).
Sry for waiting, I didnt dare to watch if one respond has been posted due to me that my english could fear you. So you convince me to write again ; and although I never understand what means acknowledge now in your post its ok. This subject pleases me a lot is an excellent boost to participate more in the forum and others topic. For now on it require to me hard efforts to write what i wanna say, but i ll do it. Then lets go.
0 . sure I like Razor, for me his style surpass the whole, like certain can prefer Kirua or Kuroro style. He is a volleyball player, a game master, commanded Gin to stop him, he was also the principal boss of GI cos the best foes faced him - all was very concerned by him, and gave to Hisoka for the first time the "nerfs à vif', Gon and Hisoka couldn't make more... these things beetwen others.
1 . I dont think the Razor's nen is bigger than what he shows before his spike volleyball, Hisoka and Biscuit seem clear about this and they are veterans, say differently i can't believe like you Razor would be concentrate more nen by using the emission nen that was working on the global map.
2 . Spider dont fear confrontation, they just understand that they had no choice to follow recommandation of Razor, cos his elimination card. Interest for me in that scene is that an important member of ryodan, Sphinks, aknowledges Razor's power and Razor invites them to play with him later, confidance in himself. But yes i think it seems suicid (if Razor would played dodgeball game against team of Sphinks) Whatever Razor is a very good tactician and he can supprim foe, one after one.
3. Razor said one time '"i can kill you" in the beginning of the game, a sentence which caused depart of players in gon's team, then "takes this i will kill you" to Gon before launch a direct ball towards Gon. Razor play as he was in a real fight. The ball throws by Razor to Hisoka is enhanced effectively by nen, why broken fingered Hisoka have for only reason that it's just a little ball enhanced of nen ? this razor's ball should represent nothing more than a simple demonstration ?
But i was alright with you, Hisoka doesnt trick ( like Razor) he put all his might to take down devils nen. So he seems weeker physically than Razor, witch place Razor higher in the classment of strengh in the spider. Hisoka in this situation will loose against Razor.
4 . The comparison you make between Netero's words and Gin power has not really consequences. Uvo is not integrated in the equation as the entire phantom group, and we can't say level Gin had when he catched Razor. etc.
5 . I agree with you again, Razor can exploit more nen available immediately than Uvo. For me, this is due to fact Enhancer has this handicap relatively to others category nen user. Otherwise is to easy : enhancer has more physical et defensive nen and the can use all of a sudden. We have seen with Kirua who talk about an of his enhancer ally about his difficulty to express his power, the first time Gon and Kirua encounter Razor.
Erf, it was really hard to respond, and understand what you the most precisely.
---------- Post added at 05:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 AM ----------
Beside, even if the speed of both are the same, i can imagine Razor put in his nen balls an supplement like flamme. Emitter can give a specificity to his nen, a nen they can separate from their body. And Razor didn't show any particular power in his nen ball, it were just ball with shu, as gon or anyelse can do by using an object.
If secret special power of his nen ball is fire, it seems that when his spikevolleyball go through team Gon and sooner his ball destroy ryodan boat, a simple projectile without fire or something like would pass through the boat, but it exploded instantly.
So if we add to Razor a special power (witch he has never show until now with precision) the combat against uvogin already become more imprevisible.
I would prefer separate my 2 reponses in 2 distinctives posts, but c'est comme ça - i don't achieve and english make me tired-.
Last edited by supar; June 07, 2014 at 06:29 AM.
Uvo went along with exactly how Wing mentioned how most enhancers are. Gon and Spphinx mixed it up a bit and made their attacking aura wise more flexible.Quote:
You Particularly need to be comfortable with your Hatsu and should be personalized which will develop your hatsu more over time...Ex Killua(Kanmaru) Gon(Scissor,Paper)
Nen users in general will favor certain practices over others. Such as Killua not liking the practice of EN a practice and form of emission. While his Grandfather a Transmuteer also has no problem surpassing the 50M mark that Wing mentioned.
Brovoda obviously wasn't that skilled emisson nen user or smart chimera ant; unable to pierce steel with his aura,nor do i think he can tank a anti-tank bazooka.Quote:
Nen battles are typically fought with martial arts, holding out on your Hatsu's unless it's a sure win because revealing your category puts you at a disadvantage even though such can be revealed by studying your opponenets handle on nen. Also using a KO technique unsuccesfully can cause you your life, etc etc
Razor being responsible for GI emission system, and even played Nen volleyball with Gon,Biscuit,Killua and Hisoka and still being responsible for that job. Acknowledge it or not it's a fact for almost every Magic card used in GI Razor's Nen was being used for it; Even during that match.
Razor as I mentioned is 2 versatile for Uvo, He can use his devil's to pass around his Emission Volley balls while he confronts Uvo. Uvo is gonna be getting blind sided by killer aura balls and Blocking his emissions volley's aren't going to be easy. I seriously see Razor as a beast similar to Hisoka they aren't just Nen masters and have well personalized Hatsu's but are very capable Martial Artist and have deep analytic skills.
He wasn't the smartest guy in the world, but not a stupid guy either as he easily saw through Ikalgo's disguise. But he was definitely a skilled Nen user. It's just not that easy to pierce steel even with Nen. Dallozolen(Neon's guard, whatever his name was) couldn't so much as scratch Uvo with his Nen empowered Sword.Quote:
It depends on your Nen. For example, Gido(the spinning tops guy in the Heaven's Arena arc) doesn't use any martial arts in his fight.Quote:
He's skilled, I know that. It just doesn't mean he's more skilled than Uvo. Especially considering we don't know how the GI cards system work.Quote:
It doesn't matter how great of a martial artist you're, a close combat with Uvo is a suicide unless you're Youpi. Razor's Nen Balls haven't shown that much power as Gon could block his Nen powered vollyball without any significant injuries(and he himself stated that they are the exact same as his Nen Balls). They aren't likely to to cause any damage to someone like Uvo who also have impressive analytic skills.Quote:
Ikalgo refferred to the Lion boss guy by his old name not much brains needed for that. and No he was not a skilled Nen user......None of the Chimera ants were skilled Nen users they were mostly all baby Nen user. excluding the RG.Quote:
Brovu wasn't a huge threat most of the ants aren't problems for experienced Hunters or Nen users. None of the Ants had a Hatsu that was developed well....Uvo was seriously a tank Dallozen couldn't pierce Uvo's more than a couple Cm because Uvo's reinforced nen body is that strong. You would need sufficiently more Nen that he was using to defend with that was all. Uvo could defend with more aura than Dalllozen was able to summon to attack...Dallozen couldn't get past hi reinforced Nen with his own.
Guido was weak, Gon knowing just the 1 basic principle was able to dodge his attacks in Zetsu for quite some time. If he was a martial artist he probably would have been able to beat Gon.Quote:
We'll never understand Nen Consumption and anything calculated im pretty sure was never meant to be taken so literally that any calculation would accurately correlate to what we read...Just know in Context Razor has Nen to burn for days. olders Nen users are predominately especially if their Martial Artist which we know if a requirement for Hunters.Quote:
Sorry to point out this statement is highly your opinion. (Start that Thread though thats an interesting match up)Quote:
Are you saying Uvo is HXH strongest basic/typical Enhancer? He's the strongest we've have seen but you can't say that he is the strongest HXH world is huge but Top 10 Human Enhancers in the manga I would agree.
Okay so Razor was never actually tying to kill Gon, he only attempted so when he sent a serious serve. That wasn't a serve with all his power but a serve not holding back again'st Gon like his earlier serves.Quote:
Enhanced Volley Balls and Emission Nen Balls are highly different and Razor being an Emisson user....You must have forgot the trouble the group had with his Devil's, Hisoka being physically weaker than his Nen creations, and wasn't able to block it's throw without getting injured..This isn't Razor himself but his Nen creations.
Uvo is not invincible because he can tank Anti-Tank Bazooka shells, Sniper Fire he has a ridiculous defense and strenght that doesn't and can't always win a NEN match. Like Chrollo said Manipulators and Conjurers can easily 1up Uvo with their Hatsu depending on the details of such power...He's not invincible no Nen user is unless your the Transcendent King where, an Militia of Nen Users would be necessary....Uvo is a pretty smart enhancer but not that smart lets not give him too much credit he knows how to play chess but isn't great at it.
HXH's serious flaw is the lack of power level, or rather power levels are conveniently ignored if your favorite character appears to be behind, then people go to the usual 'can't put a number on power' excuse.
At one point it's probably intended that all human beings are roughly equally physically strong in their prime. This is why Gon can break Ilumi's arm with just his physical strength before aura was even a concept during the Hunter's exam. Kurapika and Hisoka are basically equally strong in a world without aura even back in the Hunter's exam. And then we got aura but we're told there's supposed to be limit, like you shouldn't expect a Manipulation user to tank a direct attack from a similar level Reinforcement user, until there is Emperor Time.
By the time you get to Razor there is absolutely no semblance of people being equal baseline. Hisoka and Razor are exactly one school apart from Reinforcement, yet Razor's beast #13 can catch Hisoka's full strength thrown without moving or any protection, while Hisoka ends breaking two fingers while his hand is protected from one of Razor's aura beast. We're also told that Razor at 100% can catch a ball that'd easily knock #13 back without moving. This means Razor has far superior physical attributes or aura or both compared to Hisoka, and Ubogin is roughly comparable to Hisoka baseline. So you can't compare a guy with far superior physical attributes anymore. Pitou is a Specialization user which means he's weakest at Reinforcement, but he can tank damage from anyone we've seen outside of Uber Gon (Netero was only able to knock him away, and he wasn't even harmed while completely unprepared for the attack).
HXH's combat system breaks down horribly when two people do not have the same baseline, with the fan of the weaker character always going something like 'But XYZ might think of a clever trick!" or "He might have a really strong technique!" In reality, if you're in the world of HXH and someone is stronger than you baseline, you're just pretty much screwed.
Illumi obviously wasn't using any Nen. You have to actively use nen to block agains't others nen attacks....Illumi arm was broken because he let Gon grab him and didn't block agains't it nor did he resist physically........Killua being Zushi's physical and martial arts superior couldn't put him down even when he nearly tried to kill him because Zushi was using nen.Quote:
Kurapika was Scarlet Eyes which gives him a boost but no he still wasn't on Hisoka's Lv. Hisoka is more skilled and experienced than he was. Plus Hisoka back then still used Nen on things like his cards plus he was injured already.Quote:
Nen/Aura is very complicated I can admit that. But it's rather straight forward Ppl naturally belong to a specific category. Physical Prowness are heavily increased when Nen is involved. Ap/Dp + Np= Dp(Damage Points) Is a real formula given to us by the manga idc who doesn't like it's cannon. The many mechanics of fighting using Nen such as Ryu,and KO are already included in that formula...It's only the MP? part which pertain to Vows, Conditons, Restrictions on One Nen is something you can't calculate. It's an unkown variableQuote:
Only absolute power can prevail in almost any situation until you stack it up against numerous useful powers or odds....It's the same in any Manga.
Razor has more Nen than a lot of people shown in HXH. He's the Emissionary system for GI like it or not....Him having Sufficiently having more Nen and being the better Nen users; Can have his combined* Emission creations stop an Nen Enhanced VolleyBall thrown by Hisoka, and Hisoka broke two fingers because he was caught off Guard and Razor's nen was superior(his DEvils are his Nen)...Ex..Netero's Emisson Bhudda Statue Couldn't damage the King why??? Because of the huge Nen difference and the King Chimera Ant having an extereme difference to Humans AP/DPQuote:
Hisoka is #3 in Strength above #4.Franklin and under #2.Sphinx #1.UvoQuote:
With the happenings of GI final round, I would believe it's evident Razor is superior is Strength and Aura compared to Hisoka.
When you are stronger than somebody the odds are in your favor to win most of the time. But if your weaker you'll have to shift your odds to win. Power isn't absolute
Chimera Ants and especially RG's have an enormous AP/DP difference between Humans. They are naturally stronger and more durable than humans. Once Nen was learnt The Ant Captains were pretty much Mid-lv Pro Hunter Problems. And That's pretty much Gon/Killua at the end of the Ant Arc.Quote:
RG's Nen wise surpass even Netero. So what damage was Netero suppose to inflict on Pitou. Like Wise She can survive being hit by the king and take minor damage. Netero Hits the King Thousands and Thousands of times to inflict at most a minor discomfort of pain.
Are you upset with the Chimera's Basic AP/DP? Or the Standard Base's in general?Quote:
I thought you were more upset about the role Nen plays combat wise.
But HXH is Great the way it's set up. Power is never absolute. Netero has an offensive movement that is faster than sound and all of the characters that we've seen fight. How would you win agains't him? Hmm I don't know but with some strategy and able fighters it's possible....................The US Military was mighter than the Korean forces, But the Koreans were able to Booby trap the jungles,Ambush, attack run and hide. They out maunerved their enemy, which is a must for weaker foes.
Last edited by XXGenesis; June 10, 2014 at 02:35 AM.
Not so much for Cheetu. Yes, Cheetu is a dumbass, but that's why I said that Brovoda isn't smartest guy in the world. He displayed fairly good wits in the whole ordeal with Ikalgo.Quote:
He couldn't pierce him at all in the Manga and 2011 version. Though the instance you're talking about is actually the 1999 version.Quote:
It's not about him being weak, but about his style of fighting. Shizuku is also no martial artist and she's pretty tough.Quote:
That's almost impossible. Not even the RG have shown Nen that can run for days. Since we don't know how the GI system work, I can likewise speculate that he just helped in the creation of any card that uses Emission and then they became independent from him. Is it a baseless theory? Yes. There is no factual explanation as to how GI system work after all.Quote:
Not so much an opinion as it is an obvious thing(backed further by Chrollo's statement).Quote:
I'm saying he's the strongest Enhancer we have seen. We'll just have to consider him so until other strong Enhancers appear.
Razor is not a Conjurer(though he can Conjure the Devils) and is not a Manipulator. Based on Chrollo's explanation, he stated that Uvo is weak against those two groups because Manipulators can manipulate him, while conjurers can add strange conditions to what they conjure. Again, Razor can do neither. He's a pretty straight forward fighter no matter how fancy his Nen looks. Uvo is not invincible, but he's the favorite in these kind of scenarios. He didn't demonstrate any sort of stupidity. As a matter of fact, he's quick calculations in his fight with Kurapika shows that he's as smart as the next guy. Razor also didn't demonstrate any sort of intellectual feats but you clearly consider him smart.Quote:
If power isn't absolute then why on earth are Gon and Killua always training like any good Shonen hero? Sure power doesn't make up for a Togashi bailout but nobody in HXH, even the ones who get the bailouts, assumes power isn't necessary. Why should the stronger guy be assumed to be dumber? The Spiders are pretty shocked to find Ubogin lost 1on1 (Shalunark was confident enough to not go with him, even though he's a Manipulation user and surely is aware of the tricks such a user can do), so even Ubogin is probably pretty smart at fighting tactics. And why would Razor, who is infamous enough to warrant Gin capturing him personally, somehow be even less experienced?
I see the argument for Ubogin being one of the physically strongest guy around goes back to the initial concept of all humans are roughly equal. Ilumi didn't use aura, but Gon didn't even know such a thing existed back then, so there is no disadvantage for Ilumi back in the Hunter's exam. It's still an angry kid just walking up to him and breaking his arm. Kurapika's eyes did not turn red during the fight (he wasn't wearing contacts back then) and to the observers it looked like an even fight and no indication that Hisoka was throwing the fight. Again Hisoka didn't use aura here but Kurapika doesn't even know such a thing existed back then. But at around the GI mark we start getting the standard unequal power levels. When Killua and Gon are fighting Razor with their first set of teammates, Killua remarked that their teammates suck so much that he can beat them without aura. But wait, I thought it takes aura to beat aura? Apparently not if you trained hard enough. And how can Razor possibly be at the same level field as the rest? Here's the outcome of the dodge ball game, which is 1 of him versus 8 guys:
Goreinu - Incapaciated
The 1* guy - coughing up blood
Biscuit - no damage
Gon - Fainted from overusage of aura
Killua - Both hands busted
Hisoka - Broke all fingers on both hands (though probably could've gotten away with just 2 fingers broken)
Razor - No damage
It's rather clear that Razor is not on the same playing field as his challengers, or he could not have possibly did 1 on 8 in the first place. Even his aura beasts are physically stronger than most of the guys he's facing. When you start with that kind of overall dominance, there's just no comparison. In general, existence of guys like Razor makes comparison meaningless, because that means any establish guidelines can be gotten around with "I trained harder than you".
I really don't get your point Phantron in your last post.
Check this out though Phantron. A weapon is only as deadly as the person behind it. Ex.Benhzine Knife Chrollo used to cut Silvia with; Those knives carry an aura around them from their makers feelings for their craft. Any who's Without being adequate in Martial Arts your not going to be able to cut your opponent wheter they are stronger....
Power is Absolute and then Absolute Power can be over come.
It's like being Omnipotent; You create an unmoveable rock, Such a thing shouldn't stop an Omnipotent being but theoretically you with your omnipotent powers created an unmovable object....... There's no such thing as absolute power but Power is Power.