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Translations: Bleach 600 by BadKarma
Some of you are really downplaying Kurapika's victory. Yes, Emperor Time is very powerful but it's his ability, it's not as if the match was unfair.
Before the fight, Kurapika knew Uvo's Hatsu and Uvo was aware that he should avoid Chain Jail at all costs, even when he was kidnapped he had plenty of time to think about Kurapika abilities but even in the case he would have understood Kurapika is a Specialist I don't see how it could have affected the fight in a significant way. It's the same for Kurapika, it's easy to find out what is Uvo's ability.
They fought and Kurapika was significantly faster than him, he managed to damage Uvo with kicks a punches, endured his BBI. Kurapika provoked Uvo so he would use his full power but Uvo was already trapped by Chain Jail. Kurapika is a better fighter than Uvo overall, despite Uvo being a veteran fighter. Emperor Time is very powerful but who can blame him? It's his ability, Uvo won against the Shadow Beasts thanks to his BBI, it's the same thing.
EDIT: Now about Uvo VS Razor
I already said it before but those kind of matchups are one of the reason i really want to see a fight between a strong Enhancer and a strong Emitter. I must say among all the 5 regular categories, I think Emission is at the best place: They are better and stronger at long range while being able to use Enhancement, the strongest category for offense and defense at 80% and Manipulation, who permits them to control their attacks at 80% as well. From what we have seen, Enhancers rely on CQC, it means the distance is very important in those kind of fights. During the GI boxing game, Gon's teammate won the guy with the Warp Punch by CQC, but it worked because that guy was weak.
Razor is physically strong, has a strong aura, Nen balls, and the 14 Devils. Uvo's attacks are without a doubt stronger than Razor but Razor can hit him with his Devils, he is also able to make them disappear and combine them, Uvo is durable but the 14 Devils hit will hurt him for sure, their categories are near, the Devils are Nen creatures. To win, Uvo would need to safely use BBI without being touched by Razor's Devils. It's very hard and I don't think a full BBI could beat him(again, because of their categories and if he uses BBI at full power the rest of his body would be vulnerable, Razor is able to create a Devil and injure him significantly, like during the fight between Feitan and Zazan,who is not even an Emitter) at least Razor has no healing abilities like Kurapika. I hardly see Uvo winning against him.
Last edited by Demonspeed; December 21, 2013 at 04:50 AM.
Razor throwing a ball normally can break Hisoka's fingers even when he defended properly and avoided the direct impact. Throwing a ball is a Reinforcement type attack (Emission would be throwing an aura blast). If Ubogin is supposed to be stronger than this then you're basically saying he can pick up a rock, throw it at Hisoka and it'd snap his arm even if Hisoka defended properly, and that just seems outright impossible.
Razor's overall strength is far above the Spider tier and it neutralizes the advantage of Ubogin being a Reinforcement user. This is actually a pretty consistent problem in HXH. You rarely see two people of equal tier fight each other. The closest thing might be Zeno versus Kuroro, and that's still a one way beatdown. If Zeno was not pressed for time, all he'd have to do is spam his ranged attack until Kuroro runs out of AP, because Kuroro obviously can't beat Zeno hand to hand, and Zeno's range allows him to bypass any tricks Kuroro might have. Yes, Zeno said the outcome of a battle to the death is uncertain, but that's because the outcome of any fight to the death is always uncertain and he can't rule out Kuroro having some hax like ability to turn the fight around. In fact, assuming both combatants are equally skilled/experienced, there's only 3 possible outcome:
1. Straight up equal fight (equal distance to Reinforcement, no effective ranged attacks).
2. Person with superior ranged attack dominates with ranged attack (like a fireball trap in Street Fighter).
3. Person with superior melee attack manages to close in distance and dominates with direct melee.
Fights in HXH tends to be a guy fighting someone who is a tier above but makes an unusual mistake (e.g. Pufu ignoring Morel because he's in his obsession over Meryem), or that the weaker guy had an unusually powerful special ability. But that's not really how a normal fight should be. Why should the weaker guy always have an insanely strong ability? Why should the strong guy suddenly drool for no particular reason?
Throwing a ball isn't Enhancement. Emitters are good at separating their aura from their body without losing its power, a Nen ball looks more iconic of Emission attacks than Nen blasts to me. By your logic Paper is an Enhancement attack.
Enhancers can strengthen the power of an object better than others, if Uvo uses Shu on a rock and throws it at Hisoka( who defends himself properly) I don't think it will hurt him significantly maybe it won't hurt him at all, this is just a rock, compared to an attack made of pure aura it's significantly weaker. And since he is not an Emitter the power of his Shu will weaken when he will throw it(I guess it won't hurt him at all then). Razor said the spiders are strong, we can at least take Phinks as the reference here, it means a fight against Phinks would be difficult, we can assume him and Phinks are in the same ballpark then.
I disagree with what you said about Chrollo. He is a beast and has been the most impressive human for me, he was dodging and clashing with Zeno while observing Silva at the same time, I am more inclined to think he is better than Zeno at CQC, imagine if he was focused only on Zeno. We don't know all Chrollo's powers and his Hatsu is obviously more versatile than Zeno, Zeno was using this strategy because Chrollo only used Fun Fun Cloth. Chrollo has even a teleportation ability and we don't know how it works yet. You said Zeno would just have to spam his Dragons but it costs AP, Chrollo just has to dodge them.
Emission deals with damage with aura-created objects. Reinforcement deals with damage with real physical objects, and the ball is obviously a physical object. Whether it's Razor throwing the ball or Gon punching the ball, the power comes from the physical force imparted to the ball on the throw/punch. That's why Razor warned them that him throwing a ball does comparable damage to his Emission attacks. If they're the same type of attack why would such a warning be necessary since they just saw him casually blew up a guy with an Emission attack? That's basically him saying 'I'm pretty good at Reinforcement too', and it's a reasonable warning since there are people who are only trained well in one school (e.g. Gon).
On the subject of Kuroro, why does people assume the weaker guy is always supposed to have some magic ability to turn things around? I mean I know that's how fights in HXH goes but there isn't a universal law that says the physically weaker guy is supposed to have a move that totally negates his disadvantage. There's a lot of nonsensical combination of power already. Goreinu can just throw his gorillia off a cliff or into a trap he set up and then teleport the opponent into it. Even if they knew what he was doing there's really nothing they can do to stop it, so why is he just a fairly average Hunter? Why doesn't Bashu just write a hiaku saying he's invinicible? Heck we even have an ability whose trigger condition is just think 'don't die' (seriously, like everyone besides Kite just didn't value their life enough to think about such an ability?). Pitou's ability allows him to continue fighting with his head missing, and if your opponent can do that, you can't possibly be prepared for it, so there's also no point to worry about it.
Your are forgetting they are in Greed Island, the space must have conditions like Cheetu's savanna. The ball would have been destroyed under normal circumstances, physical strength has its importance but it's the aura is even more important, his Rock on the ball was stronger when he used more aura, he didn't become physically stronger. Everybody can use aura on a physical object, Rock is just a Ko punch strengthened because of Gon. Obviously Razor is good at Reinforcement but you should replace it by aura here, the aura volume was the deciding factor, the stronger your aura the stronger your attacks, Enhancers Hatsu depend on the aura power( so far) some Emitters Hatsu too, not as Killua's electricity or Hisoka's Bungee Gum.
By physical strength I would say Razor>Hisoka>Gon>Killua. But Gon's aura volume is stronger than all of them.
I don't think Chrollo is weaker than Zeno but if Goreinu or Basho can't do certain things, it means there are conditions. Writing an haiku who would make him is unconceivable IMO. Goreinu can teleport his opponents but we don't know the distance, since he is an Emitter it must be fairly large, still his mental state must be took in consideration. Fear is the reason why he was unable to maintain his Gorilla after Razor crushed his head, to lay a trap and stay calm while any ball can kill you, you need to have a really strong mental, his gorillas can disappear in such a state.
We don't know exactly how Kite's #3 works but the conditions were fulfilled probably because Kite was in a desperate situations where he had no chances to win. We learned that Nen can be strengthened after death so it is always a possibility, Pitou's loyalty to Meruem and determination to kill Gon strengthened her Terpischora who became autonomous and more powerful, she wasn't aware of it, it just happened at this moment.
---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------
As for Pitou it isn't like his ability was specifically made for him being able to fight like that, its really just that his terpsichora remains active even after he dead bcuz nen doesn't disappear when you die and his will to protect the king made him even stronger than he was in life.
---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 AM ----------
Razor > Hisoka > Uvogin
Hisoka only want to fight Kuroro because he knows he can beat the other members.
He does not want to fight Razor because he know he will lose.
Razor stood confidently infront of a whole spider crew, Spider crew knew that GI is important to them because their boss/nen remover is there. So they would have risk fighting many on 1, but they know they would lose some members so they decided to hold back.
I don't see a reason for us to think razor would loose against hisoka. Certainly razor gave the entire group there a tough fight but those circumstances were entirely different from a normal fight. The dodgeball game was to begin with a game that heavily favored razor and someone with his particular skillset, it was meant to give him an advantage and put enemy teams at a severe disadvantage unless they just happened to have an ideal skillset for the game. Perhaps more important here is the fact that the gang had to necessarily take razor's attack head on to win, in a normal fight they would have to do anything but that. Its not like the whole thing was that impressive anyways, in general just connecting with a hatsu is enough to win a battle (with the simple ones at least). Even gon's rock before greed island would hurt a relatively high nen user if he manages to connect with it, he even knocked out knuckle with it even though knuckle concentrated his nen in his abdomen to cancel it out.
Razors dominance was displayed in a game with rules
where a god like emitter had a distinct advantage
sorry but i guve the edge to hisoka ove uvo or razor in an actual fight
hisoka is a calculated genius at fighting
he wouldnt lose to those two
Razor WAS a Hisoka type person who went around killing people until Ging changed him. Hisoka will be that person for Gon. Gon will change him to a good person
That all assumes razor even hits hisoka. Even then, I would argue the 14 devils are actually a non issue here. Razor can use them but they would come at the cost of as much strength as he puts into them. Razor can only use his full power when he is not using the 14 devils in the end. We also know nothing about the fight between ging and razor, all we know is that razor lost. He did break his fingers repelling the nen ball during the game but so what? There would be no need for him to do that during an actual fight. Hisoka does not have to repel or otherwise overpower the nen ball, whatever gets him not killed by it works just the same.
I was not trying to say Hisoka is stronger than Razor(even if think so). I don't think generation are relevant here. But Bungee Gum is arguably the most versatile Hatsu actually He can trap you with any attack, he can even stick it on his own guard, using it with his feet. Even with the coordination, the devils are unable to throw projectiles, maybe they'll be able to hit him but Hisoka will still be able to stick his gum on them all, makes them disappear will not affect the technique. And I remember he was able to control the gum without being in contact with it during his fight with Gon.
The only thing we can rely on is the hexagram. The maximum note is 5 so it's not precise enough but that's all we have.
Hi all, i am french sry by advance for my english. Thats the only one reason for i never try to register me sooner, though i know this forum so long. I ll try to do my best to be "readable". I like in particular this topic cos Razor is my favorite character ( as soon as i see him in manga in row, so there was so many years) and i always wanna post here, so let's see what you'll say. If you quote me, pls don't hesitate to correct my english.
I can say for beginning Razor is not stronger than Hisoka, kuroro, Uvo and others but not all phantom troup, but he's strong.
His aura that impress Biscuit wasnt enough to defeat his foes, Gon and Kirua at that time they had their auras in thoses stammering. The combination of both + hisoka was enough to counter the spikevolleyball, his Razor's best attack.
Then i read you spoke about the power of Razor launch's emmision but you dont give good conclusion of yours esamples, especially the breaking finger of Hisoka. In fact, we can think that the intention of Razor wasn't just broke Hisoka's finger but him in full, or at least his arms for not using them anymore, like result is quite disapointing. Razor give all he has, its his promess to Gin, and the damage are lights ; in comparaison by an another situation wherein foes were more powerfull than team of Gon, the result would have been certainly tragic as we can imagine. A gon a little damaging and tired, and Kirua and Hisoka also, seems like a end of hard training, nothing more.
With that, how do you want to think Razor can go on versus against a top fantom troup alone and win ? And more in a different place than his playing field ? It demands imagination. And we, forumers, have it.
However Razor is really good, his nen (capacity) and his amount of aura. And i can say a 1 V 1 against Uvo must be yet to establish.
First, by comparison with certain post, power of a rock throw by Uvoguine can make lethal injury for his ennemy. We have seen when he fight with the "bêtes de l'ombre" (perhaps "shadow beasts" in your english version) : Uvo kill a sniper with a little rock at long range, Uvo kill a shadow beast by spiting a bone on him , and that shadow mastered nen, and so his defense. Then if Uvo will throw something on Hisoka as Razor did in dodgeball game, it's difficult to say than Hisoka will not receive any damages ; i think on the contrary, hisoka's finger will be the minimun loss for him.
More, Gon with such a little amount of aura in his jaken's attack in that battle than will have after Biscuit training for fighting against leader ant's troup has resolved Razor to be serious, at his highest nen's level, to support the ball's throw. What it will be if was Uvo in front of him ?
Beside, Hisoka at this rank at this time was useless versus Razor if gon was'nt there. And This is the only one reason why we can think Razor can fight in 1 v 1 against phantom troup. If Uvo was in the place of Gon in the dodgeball game, Razor will have facing him, as he said at all phantom troup before. But the game will have been different, the changes reequilibrated. Razor will not loose in the entry game and could played his chance at max to win.
I think the 14 devils are very versatil and with a good tactician like Razor is, it can make difference in his favor. The damage Gon, who has gave all he had, were insignificant for Razor and he could have taken others again more and more. The match against a phantom troup is not win in advance in my opinion for one of them, not at all.
Last edited by supar; June 06, 2014 at 06:20 AM.