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Thread: Uvogin vs Razor

  1. #46
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by supar View Post
    Hi all, i am french sry by advance for my english. Thats the only one reason for i never try to register me sooner, though i know this forum so long. I ll try to do my best to be "readable". I like in particular this topic cos Razor is my favorite character ( as soon as i see him in manga in row, so there was so many years) and i always wanna post here, so let's see what you'll say. If you quote me, pls don't hesitate to correct my english.

    I can say for beginning Razor is not stronger than Hisoka, kuroro, Uvo and others but not all phantom troup, but he's strong.
    His aura that impress Biscuit wasnt enough to defeat his foes, Gon and Kirua at that time they had their auras in thoses stammering. The combination of both + hisoka was enough to counter the spikevolleyball, his Razor's best attack.

    Then i read you spoke about the power of Razor launch's emmision but you dont give good conclusion of yours esamples, especially the breaking finger of Hisoka. In fact, we can think that the intention of Razor wasn't just broke Hisoka's finger but him in full, or at least his arms for not using them anymore, like result is quite disapointing. Razor give all he has, its his promess to Gin, and the damage are lights ; in comparaison by an another situation wherein foes were more powerfull than team of Gon, the result would have been certainly tragic as we can imagine. A gon a little damaging and tired, and Kirua and Hisoka also, seems like a end of hard training, nothing more.
    With that, how do you want to think Razor can go on versus against a top fantom troup alone and win ? And more in a different place than his playing field ? It demands imagination. And we, forumers, have it.
    However Razor is really good, his nen (capacity) and his amount of aura. And i can say a 1 V 1 against Uvo must be yet to establish.
    First, by comparison with certain post, power of a rock throw by Uvoguine can make lethal injury for his ennemy. We have seen when he fight with the "bêtes de l'ombre" (perhaps "shadow beasts" in your english version) : Uvo kill a sniper with a little rock at long range, Uvo kill a shadow beast by spiting a bone on him , and that shadow mastered nen, and so his defense. Then if Uvo will throw something on Hisoka as Razor did in dodgeball game, it's difficult to say than Hisoka will not receive any damages ; i think on the contrary, hisoka's finger will be the minimun loss for him.
    More, Gon with such a little amount of aura in his jaken's attack in that battle than will have after Biscuit training for fighting against leader ant's troup has resolved Razor to be serious, at his highest nen's level, to support the ball's throw. What it will be if was Uvo in front of him ?

    Beside, Hisoka at this rank at this time was useless versus Razor if gon was'nt there. And This is the only one reason why we can think Razor can fight in 1 v 1 against phantom troup. If Uvo was in the place of Gon in the dodgeball game, Razor will have facing him, as he said at all phantom troup before. But the game will have been different, the changes reequilibrated. Razor will not loose in the entry game and could played his chance at max to win.
    I think the 14 devils are very versatil and with a good tactician like Razor is, it can make difference in his favor. The damage Gon, who has gave all he had, were insignificant for Razor and he could have taken others again more and more. The match against a phantom troup is not win in advance in my opinion for one of them, not at all.
    Sheesh Bro for a Razor fan you don't cut him any slack.

    1. Through another Hatsu designed by one of the game creators, makes Razor responsible for all Nen Emission in the game; Everything on GI besides the Geography and maybe the towns were Nen. And Razor being an administration of the game was soley responsible for all Emission Nen. You cann put that into your own perspective of how much Nen that means he has.

    2. More than Half the Phantom Troupe approached GI the illegal way and was met by Razor. 5 or 6 Spiders not entirely sure of their #'s but damn near any Nen match if it's 1 vs many; it's suicide but Sphinx acknowledge his strenght and the other agree to take the legal way in avoding confrontation. That says Alot!

    3. A Nen Volleyball Game vs Actualy Nen Combat are two entirely different things. Razor was never gonna kill Gon he used his real strenght on a serve which is somewhat comparable Nen combat seeing it was life threatening. But it took the likes of Gon,Killua, and a broken Fingered Hisoka to stop a simple enhanced nen ball....As Strong as Hisoka is he's obviously physically weaker than Razor and could never catch anything Razor throws at him full strenght.

    4. When I look back on how strong Netero is. Ging being 1 of the top 5 Nen users and Netero claiming to not even hold a spot there anymore, and seeing Razor's position at GI. Razor mopps up Uvo with Low difficulty.

    5. Nothing is guranteed in a Nen battle. But I see Razor with the higher amount of AOP, more succifient MOP and AOP compared to Uvo who lashes out and is a Tank. I feel like Emission user are more refined tanks. But Razor Nen wise is just better than Uvo. Uvo imo is only slightly stronger than Razor i doubt he'll be faster or smarter.

  2. #47
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    2. More than Half the Phantom Troupe approached GI the illegal way and was met by Razor. 5 or 6 Spiders not entirely sure of their #'s but damn near any Nen match if it's 1 vs many; it's suicide but Sphinx acknowledge his strenght and the other agree to take the legal way in avoding confrontation. That says Alot!
    It says nothing to be frank. This was coming from Phinx who is used to facing shitty opponents, so someone like Razor would naturally be a bit of a surprise for him. But he didn't show any sign of fear or intimidation and even stated that he would be willing to take him on anytime. The PT didn't take the legal way to avoid confrontation, they did so because they have no choice. They will be blasted out of the island the moment they set foot in it illegally without even being able to fight back due to Razor's special card "Eliminate." Which, as the name says, eliminate all intruders regardless of how powerful they are.

    Quote Quote:
    4. When I look back on how strong Netero is. Ging being 1 of the top 5 Nen users and Netero claiming to not even hold a spot there anymore, and seeing Razor's position at GI. Razor mopps up Uvo with Low difficulty.
    No....just...no.

  3. #48
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    It says nothing to be frank. This was coming from Phinx who is used to facing shitty opponents, so someone like Razor would naturally be a bit of a surprise for him. But he didn't show any sign of fear or intimidation and even stated that he would be willing to take him on anytime. The PT didn't take the legal way to avoid confrontation, they did so because they have no choice. They will be blasted out of the island the moment they set foot in it illegally without even being able to fight back due to Razor's special card "Eliminate." Which, as the name says, eliminate all intruders regardless of how powerful they are.



    No....just...no.
    I see where you coming from on him being able to kick them out, but They didn't know how.

    We all have our opinions. Uvo is a enhancer master with no variations to his Hatsu soley Reinforcement to a absurd level. His Strenght isn't going to do him any good against somebody whose superior on terms of Nen, not far behind in Strenght and a much more flexible Hatsu...

    Uvo doesn't fair we'll against flexible power types.

  4. #49
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    I see where you coming from on him being able to kick them out, but They didn't know how.

    We all have our opinions. Uvo is a enhancer master with no variations to his Hatsu soley Reinforcement to a absurd level. His Strenght isn't going to do him any good against somebody whose superior on terms of Nen, not far behind in Strenght and a much more flexible Hatsu...

    Uvo doesn't fair we'll against flexible power types.
    They know now. After all, Razor explained it to them. That's the point of him showing up in front of them. I forgot to mention this before, but just like how Phinx stated that Razor was powerful, Razor stated that Phinx and the others are "some remarkable Nen users." Neither statements mean that one is stronger than the other, just compliments because both parties are used to facing shitty or amateurish Nen users.

    According to Wing, Enhancers don't need any fancy Hatsu or flexible Nen. Because once they master Enhancement, they have the perfect combination of unstoppable offense, unbreakable defense, and a superb healing factor. Also, there's no one to say that Razor is superior in terms of Nen. Just because he chose to develop a fancy Hatsu, doesn't mean he's a better Nen user. Remember, Nen depends entirely on what makes you feel comfortable. If Uvo is okay with just power, then he's all the more powerful.

    Furthermore, Chrollo stated that Uvogin is a dominant Nen user, and that only Manipulators, Conjurers, and to some extent, Specialists can take him down. Razor is an Emitter who relies solely on Nen Balls as a mean of offense. In a battle between pure Aura\Aura Enhanced attacks, Uvogin won't lose. He was able to easily block an Anti-Tank Bazooka(which is far more powerful than the attacks of an Emission Chimera Ant, Brovoda\Bloster) with little to no damage. Even Kurapika was intimidated by the sheer power of Uvogin and was not willing to take him on until he realized that he was a member of the Phantom Troupe(thus, giving him the advantage thanks to Chain Jail).

  5. #50
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    XXgenesis

    Sry for waiting, I didnt dare to watch if one respond has been posted due to me that my english could fear you. So you convince me to write again ; and although I never understand what means acknowledge now in your post its ok. This subject pleases me a lot is an excellent boost to participate more in the forum and others topic. For now on it require to me hard efforts to write what i wanna say, but i ll do it. Then lets go.

    0 . sure I like Razor, for me his style surpass the whole, like certain can prefer Kirua or Kuroro style. He is a volleyball player, a game master, commanded Gin to stop him, he was also the principal boss of GI cos the best foes faced him - all was very concerned by him, and gave to Hisoka for the first time the "nerfs à vif', Gon and Hisoka couldn't make more... these things beetwen others.

    1 . I dont think the Razor's nen is bigger than what he shows before his spike volleyball, Hisoka and Biscuit seem clear about this and they are veterans, say differently i can't believe like you Razor would be concentrate more nen by using the emission nen that was working on the global map.

    2 . Spider dont fear confrontation, they just understand that they had no choice to follow recommandation of Razor, cos his elimination card. Interest for me in that scene is that an important member of ryodan, Sphinks, aknowledges Razor's power and Razor invites them to play with him later, confidance in himself. But yes i think it seems suicid (if Razor would played dodgeball game against team of Sphinks) Whatever Razor is a very good tactician and he can supprim foe, one after one.

    3. Razor said one time '"i can kill you" in the beginning of the game, a sentence which caused depart of players in gon's team, then "takes this i will kill you" to Gon before launch a direct ball towards Gon. Razor play as he was in a real fight. The ball throws by Razor to Hisoka is enhanced effectively by nen, why broken fingered Hisoka have for only reason that it's just a little ball enhanced of nen ? this razor's ball should represent nothing more than a simple demonstration ?
    But i was alright with you, Hisoka doesnt trick ( like Razor) he put all his might to take down devils nen. So he seems weeker physically than Razor, witch place Razor higher in the classment of strengh in the spider. Hisoka in this situation will loose against Razor.

    4 . The comparison you make between Netero's words and Gin power has not really consequences. Uvo is not integrated in the equation as the entire phantom group, and we can't say level Gin had when he catched Razor. etc.

    5 . I agree with you again, Razor can exploit more nen available immediately than Uvo. For me, this is due to fact Enhancer has this handicap relatively to others category nen user. Otherwise is to easy : enhancer has more physical et defensive nen and the can use all of a sudden. We have seen with Kirua who talk about an of his enhancer ally about his difficulty to express his power, the first time Gon and Kirua encounter Razor.

    Erf, it was really hard to respond, and understand what you the most precisely.

    ---------- Post added at 05:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    They know now. After all, Razor explained it to them. Neither statements mean that one is stronger than the other, just compliments because both parties are used to facing shitty or amateurish Nen users.

    According to Wing,Enhancement, they have the perfect combination of unstoppable offense, unbreakable defense, and a superb healing factor. Remember, Nen depends entirely on what makes you feel comfortable. If Uvo is okay with just power, then he's all the more powerful.

    Furthermore, Chrollo stated that Uvogin is a dominant Nen user, and that only Manipulators, Conjurers, and to some extent, Specialists can take him down. Razor is an Emitter who relies solely on Nen Balls as a mean of offense. In a battle between pure Aura\Aura Enhanced attacks, Uvogin won't lose. He was able to easily block an Anti-Tank Bazooka.
    I can't say better, i am a Razor fan but i only can aprove what you say. Uvogin can support some hit than Razor is not in capacity to reproduce, probably.
    Beside, even if the speed of both are the same, i can imagine Razor put in his nen balls an supplement like flamme. Emitter can give a specificity to his nen, a nen they can separate from their body. And Razor didn't show any particular power in his nen ball, it were just ball with shu, as gon or anyelse can do by using an object.
    If secret special power of his nen ball is fire, it seems that when his spikevolleyball go through team Gon and sooner his ball destroy ryodan boat, a simple projectile without fire or something like would pass through the boat, but it exploded instantly.
    So if we add to Razor a special power (witch he has never show until now with precision) the combat against uvogin already become more imprevisible.

    I would prefer separate my 2 reponses in 2 distinctives posts, but c'est comme ça - i don't achieve and english make me tired-.
    Last edited by supar; June 07, 2014 at 06:29 AM.

  6. #51
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    According to Wing, Enhancers don't need any fancy Hatsu or flexible Nen. Because once they master Enhancement, they have the perfect combination of unstoppable offense, unbreakable defense, and a superb healing factor.
    Absolutely True

    Quote Quote:
    Also, there's no one to say that Razor is superior in terms of Nen. Just because he chose to develop a fancy Hatsu, doesn't mean he's a better Nen user. Remember, Nen depends entirely on what makes you feel comfortable. If Uvo is okay with just power, then he's all the more powerful.
    Uvo went along with exactly how Wing mentioned how most enhancers are. Gon and Spphinx mixed it up a bit and made their attacking aura wise more flexible.
    You Particularly need to be comfortable with your Hatsu and should be personalized which will develop your hatsu more over time...Ex Killua(Kanmaru) Gon(Scissor,Paper)

    Nen users in general will favor certain practices over others. Such as Killua not liking the practice of EN a practice and form of emission. While his Grandfather a Transmuteer also has no problem surpassing the 50M mark that Wing mentioned.

    Quote Quote:
    Furthermore, Chrollo stated that Uvogin is a dominant Nen user, and that only Manipulators, Conjurers, and to some extent, Specialists can take him down. Razor is an Emitter who relies solely on Nen Balls as a mean of offense. In a battle between pure Aura\Aura Enhanced attacks, Uvogin won't lose. He was able to easily block an Anti-Tank Bazooka(which is far more powerful than the attacks of an Emission Chimera Ant, Brovoda\Bloster) with little to no damage. Even Kurapika was intimidated by the sheer power of Uvogin and was not willing to take him on until he realized that he was a member of the Phantom Troupe(thus, giving him the advantage thanks to Chain Jail).
    Brovoda obviously wasn't that skilled emisson nen user or smart chimera ant; unable to pierce steel with his aura,nor do i think he can tank a anti-tank bazooka.

    Nen battles are typically fought with martial arts, holding out on your Hatsu's unless it's a sure win because revealing your category puts you at a disadvantage even though such can be revealed by studying your opponenets handle on nen. Also using a KO technique unsuccesfully can cause you your life, etc etc

    Razor being responsible for GI emission system, and even played Nen volleyball with Gon,Biscuit,Killua and Hisoka and still being responsible for that job. Acknowledge it or not it's a fact for almost every Magic card used in GI Razor's Nen was being used for it; Even during that match.

    Razor as I mentioned is 2 versatile for Uvo, He can use his devil's to pass around his Emission Volley balls while he confronts Uvo. Uvo is gonna be getting blind sided by killer aura balls and Blocking his emissions volley's aren't going to be easy. I seriously see Razor as a beast similar to Hisoka they aren't just Nen masters and have well personalized Hatsu's but are very capable Martial Artist and have deep analytic skills.

  7. #52
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Uvo went along with exactly how Wing mentioned how most enhancers are. Gon and Spphinx mixed it up a bit and made their attacking aura wise more flexible.
    You Particularly need to be comfortable with your Hatsu and should be personalized which will develop your hatsu more over time...Ex Killua(Kanmaru) Gon(Scissor,Paper)
    What Gon did was basically learn the most basic things about the Nen groups available to him. It's not even remotely close to Phinx's Hatsu. Gon's Enhancement attack is a simple Ko. His Emission attack is a simple Aura attack. And his Transmutation attack is simply changing the shape of his Aura. It can't even be considered a complex Hatsu.

    Quote Quote:
    Brovoda obviously wasn't that skilled emisson nen user or smart chimera ant; unable to pierce steel with his aura,nor do i think he can tank a anti-tank bazooka.
    He wasn't the smartest guy in the world, but not a stupid guy either as he easily saw through Ikalgo's disguise. But he was definitely a skilled Nen user. It's just not that easy to pierce steel even with Nen. Dallozolen(Neon's guard, whatever his name was) couldn't so much as scratch Uvo with his Nen empowered Sword.

    Quote Quote:
    Nen battles are typically fought with martial arts, holding out on your Hatsu's unless it's a sure win because revealing your category puts you at a disadvantage even though such can be revealed by studying your opponenets handle on nen. Also using a KO technique unsuccesfully can cause you your life, etc etc
    It depends on your Nen. For example, Gido(the spinning tops guy in the Heaven's Arena arc) doesn't use any martial arts in his fight.

    Quote Quote:
    Razor being responsible for GI emission system, and even played Nen volleyball with Gon,Biscuit,Killua and Hisoka and still being responsible for that job. Acknowledge it or not it's a fact for almost every Magic card used in GI Razor's Nen was being used for it; Even during that match.
    He's skilled, I know that. It just doesn't mean he's more skilled than Uvo. Especially considering we don't know how the GI cards system work.

    Quote Quote:
    Razor as I mentioned is 2 versatile for Uvo, He can use his devil's to pass around his Emission Volley balls while he confronts Uvo. Uvo is gonna be getting blind sided by killer aura balls and Blocking his emissions volley's aren't going to be easy. I seriously see Razor as a beast similar to Hisoka they aren't just Nen masters and have well personalized Hatsu's but are very capable Martial Artist and have deep analytic skills.
    It doesn't matter how great of a martial artist you're, a close combat with Uvo is a suicide unless you're Youpi. Razor's Nen Balls haven't shown that much power as Gon could block his Nen powered vollyball without any significant injuries(and he himself stated that they are the exact same as his Nen Balls). They aren't likely to to cause any damage to someone like Uvo who also have impressive analytic skills.

  8. #53
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    What Gon did was basically learn the most basic things about the Nen groups available to him. It's not even remotely close to Phinx's Hatsu. Gon's Enhancement attack is a simple Ko. His Emission attack is a simple Aura attack. And his Transmutation attack is simply changing the shape of his Aura. It can't even be considered a complex Hatsu.
    Who said it was a complex Hatsu? Enhancer's don't need complex hatsu you just acklowedge that. Gon has 3 Hatsu's attacks period he can cut you mid-range, projectile his aura for long range, and has his #1 Charged up KO technique....It's simple and it works as an Enhancer this is absolutely fine for him.


    Quote Quote:
    He wasn't the smartest guy in the world, but not a stupid guy either as he easily saw through Ikalgo's disguise. But he was definitely a skilled Nen user. It's just not that easy to pierce steel even with Nen. Dallozolen(Neon's guard, whatever his name was) couldn't so much as scratch Uvo with his Nen empowered Sword.
    Ikalgo refferred to the Lion boss guy by his old name not much brains needed for that. and No he was not a skilled Nen user......None of the Chimera ants were skilled Nen users they were mostly all baby Nen user. excluding the RG.

    Brovu wasn't a huge threat most of the ants aren't problems for experienced Hunters or Nen users. None of the Ants had a Hatsu that was developed well....Uvo was seriously a tank Dallozen couldn't pierce Uvo's more than a couple Cm because Uvo's reinforced nen body is that strong. You would need sufficiently more Nen that he was using to defend with that was all. Uvo could defend with more aura than Dalllozen was able to summon to attack...Dallozen couldn't get past hi reinforced Nen with his own.


    Quote Quote:
    It depends on your Nen. For example, Gido(the spinning tops guy in the Heaven's Arena arc) doesn't use any martial arts in his fight.
    Guido was weak, Gon knowing just the 1 basic principle was able to dodge his attacks in Zetsu for quite some time. If he was a martial artist he probably would have been able to beat Gon.


    Quote Quote:
    He's skilled, I know that. It just doesn't mean he's more skilled than Uvo. Especially considering we don't know how the GI cards system work.
    We'll never understand Nen Consumption and anything calculated im pretty sure was never meant to be taken so literally that any calculation would accurately correlate to what we read...Just know in Context Razor has Nen to burn for days. olders Nen users are predominately especially if their Martial Artist which we know if a requirement for Hunters.


    Quote Quote:
    It doesn't matter how great of a martial artist you're, a close combat with Uvo is a suicide unless you're Youpi.
    Sorry to point out this statement is highly your opinion. (Start that Thread though thats an interesting match up)

    Are you saying Uvo is HXH strongest basic/typical Enhancer? He's the strongest we've have seen but you can't say that he is the strongest HXH world is huge but Top 10 Human Enhancers in the manga I would agree.

    Quote Quote:
    Razor's Nen Balls haven't shown that much power as Gon could block his Nen powered vollyball without any significant injuries(and he himself stated that they are the exact same as his Nen Balls). They aren't likely to to cause any damage to someone like Uvo who also have impressive analytic skills.
    Okay so Razor was never actually tying to kill Gon, he only attempted so when he sent a serious serve. That wasn't a serve with all his power but a serve not holding back again'st Gon like his earlier serves.

    Enhanced Volley Balls and Emission Nen Balls are highly different and Razor being an Emisson user....You must have forgot the trouble the group had with his Devil's, Hisoka being physically weaker than his Nen creations, and wasn't able to block it's throw without getting injured..This isn't Razor himself but his Nen creations.

    Uvo is not invincible because he can tank Anti-Tank Bazooka shells, Sniper Fire he has a ridiculous defense and strenght that doesn't and can't always win a NEN match. Like Chrollo said Manipulators and Conjurers can easily 1up Uvo with their Hatsu depending on the details of such power...He's not invincible no Nen user is unless your the Transcendent King where, an Militia of Nen Users would be necessary....Uvo is a pretty smart enhancer but not that smart lets not give him too much credit he knows how to play chess but isn't great at it.

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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    HXH's serious flaw is the lack of power level, or rather power levels are conveniently ignored if your favorite character appears to be behind, then people go to the usual 'can't put a number on power' excuse.

    At one point it's probably intended that all human beings are roughly equally physically strong in their prime. This is why Gon can break Ilumi's arm with just his physical strength before aura was even a concept during the Hunter's exam. Kurapika and Hisoka are basically equally strong in a world without aura even back in the Hunter's exam. And then we got aura but we're told there's supposed to be limit, like you shouldn't expect a Manipulation user to tank a direct attack from a similar level Reinforcement user, until there is Emperor Time.

    By the time you get to Razor there is absolutely no semblance of people being equal baseline. Hisoka and Razor are exactly one school apart from Reinforcement, yet Razor's beast #13 can catch Hisoka's full strength thrown without moving or any protection, while Hisoka ends breaking two fingers while his hand is protected from one of Razor's aura beast. We're also told that Razor at 100% can catch a ball that'd easily knock #13 back without moving. This means Razor has far superior physical attributes or aura or both compared to Hisoka, and Ubogin is roughly comparable to Hisoka baseline. So you can't compare a guy with far superior physical attributes anymore. Pitou is a Specialization user which means he's weakest at Reinforcement, but he can tank damage from anyone we've seen outside of Uber Gon (Netero was only able to knock him away, and he wasn't even harmed while completely unprepared for the attack).

    HXH's combat system breaks down horribly when two people do not have the same baseline, with the fan of the weaker character always going something like 'But XYZ might think of a clever trick!" or "He might have a really strong technique!" In reality, if you're in the world of HXH and someone is stronger than you baseline, you're just pretty much screwed.

  10. #55
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    HXH's serious flaw is the lack of power level, or rather power levels are conveniently ignored if your favorite character appears to be behind, then people go to the usual 'can't put a number on power' excuse.
    Mike Tyson, Floyd Mayweather are all human if they stand still for me with a well placed blow I can K.O or Kill them. In a 1 on 1 fight professionally or not they would obliterate my face....HXH is very similar with a lot of Fiction thrown into it.

    Quote Quote:
    At one point it's probably intended that all human beings are roughly equally physically strong in their prime. This is why Gon can break Ilumi's arm with just his physical strength before aura was even a concept during the Hunter's exam.
    Illumi obviously wasn't using any Nen. You have to actively use nen to block agains't others nen attacks....Illumi arm was broken because he let Gon grab him and didn't block agains't it nor did he resist physically........Killua being Zushi's physical and martial arts superior couldn't put him down even when he nearly tried to kill him because Zushi was using nen.

    Quote Quote:
    Kurapika and Hisoka are basically equally strong in a world without aura even back in the Hunter's exam.
    Kurapika was Scarlet Eyes which gives him a boost but no he still wasn't on Hisoka's Lv. Hisoka is more skilled and experienced than he was. Plus Hisoka back then still used Nen on things like his cards plus he was injured already.

    Quote Quote:
    And then we got aura but we're told there's supposed to be limit, like you shouldn't expect a Manipulation user to tank a direct attack from a similar level Reinforcement user, until there is Emperor Time.
    Nen/Aura is very complicated I can admit that. But it's rather straight forward Ppl naturally belong to a specific category. Physical Prowness are heavily increased when Nen is involved. Ap/Dp + Np= Dp(Damage Points) Is a real formula given to us by the manga idc who doesn't like it's cannon. The many mechanics of fighting using Nen such as Ryu,and KO are already included in that formula...It's only the MP? part which pertain to Vows, Conditons, Restrictions on One Nen is something you can't calculate. It's an unkown variable

    Only absolute power can prevail in almost any situation until you stack it up against numerous useful powers or odds....It's the same in any Manga.

    Quote Quote:
    By the time you get to Razor there is absolutely no semblance of people being equal baseline. Hisoka and Razor are exactly one school apart from Reinforcement, yet Razor's beast #13 can catch Hisoka's full strength thrown without moving or any protection, while Hisoka ends breaking two fingers while his hand is protected from one of Razor's aura beast.
    Razor has more Nen than a lot of people shown in HXH. He's the Emissionary system for GI like it or not....Him having Sufficiently having more Nen and being the better Nen users; Can have his combined* Emission creations stop an Nen Enhanced VolleyBall thrown by Hisoka, and Hisoka broke two fingers because he was caught off Guard and Razor's nen was superior(his DEvils are his Nen)...Ex..Netero's Emisson Bhudda Statue Couldn't damage the King why??? Because of the huge Nen difference and the King Chimera Ant having an extereme difference to Humans AP/DP



    Quote Quote:
    We're also told that Razor at 100% can catch a ball that'd easily knock #13 back without moving. This means Razor has far superior physical attributes or aura or both compared to Hisoka, and Ubogin is roughly comparable to Hisoka baseline. So you can't compare a guy with far superior physical attributes anymore.
    Hisoka is #3 in Strength above #4.Franklin and under #2.Sphinx #1.Uvo
    With the happenings of GI final round, I would believe it's evident Razor is superior is Strength and Aura compared to Hisoka.

    When you are stronger than somebody the odds are in your favor to win most of the time. But if your weaker you'll have to shift your odds to win. Power isn't absolute

    Quote Quote:
    Pitou is a Specialization user which means he's weakest at Reinforcement, but he can tank damage from anyone we've seen outside of Uber Gon (Netero was only able to knock him away, and he wasn't even harmed while completely unprepared for the attack).
    Chimera Ants and especially RG's have an enormous AP/DP difference between Humans. They are naturally stronger and more durable than humans. Once Nen was learnt The Ant Captains were pretty much Mid-lv Pro Hunter Problems. And That's pretty much Gon/Killua at the end of the Ant Arc.

    RG's Nen wise surpass even Netero. So what damage was Netero suppose to inflict on Pitou. Like Wise She can survive being hit by the king and take minor damage. Netero Hits the King Thousands and Thousands of times to inflict at most a minor discomfort of pain.

    Quote Quote:
    HXH's combat system breaks down horribly when two people do not have the same baseline, with the fan of the weaker character always going something like 'But XYZ might think of a clever trick!" or "He might have a really strong technique!" In reality, if you're in the world of HXH and someone is stronger than you baseline, you're just pretty much screwed.
    Are you upset with the Chimera's Basic AP/DP? Or the Standard Base's in general?

    I thought you were more upset about the role Nen plays combat wise.

    But HXH is Great the way it's set up. Power is never absolute. Netero has an offensive movement that is faster than sound and all of the characters that we've seen fight. How would you win agains't him? Hmm I don't know but with some strategy and able fighters it's possible....................The US Military was mighter than the Korean forces, But the Koreans were able to Booby trap the jungles,Ambush, attack run and hide. They out maunerved their enemy, which is a must for weaker foes.
    Last edited by XXGenesis; June 10, 2014 at 02:35 AM.

  11. #56
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Who said it was a complex Hatsu? Enhancer's don't need complex hatsu you just acklowedge that. Gon has 3 Hatsu's attacks period he can cut you mid-range, projectile his aura for long range, and has his #1 Charged up KO technique....It's simple and it works as an Enhancer this is absolutely fine for him.
    I was under the impression that you implied Gon's Hatsu is more complex than Uvo's.

    Quote Quote:
    Ikalgo refferred to the Lion boss guy by his old name not much brains needed for that. and No he was not a skilled Nen user......None of the Chimera ants were skilled Nen users they were mostly all baby Nen user. excluding the RG.
    Not so much for Cheetu. Yes, Cheetu is a dumbass, but that's why I said that Brovoda isn't smartest guy in the world. He displayed fairly good wits in the whole ordeal with Ikalgo.

    Quote Quote:
    Uvo was seriously a tank Dallozen couldn't pierce Uvo's more than a couple Cm because Uvo's reinforced nen body is that strong.
    He couldn't pierce him at all in the Manga and 2011 version. Though the instance you're talking about is actually the 1999 version.

    Quote Quote:
    Guido was weak, Gon knowing just the 1 basic principle was able to dodge his attacks in Zetsu for quite some time. If he was a martial artist he probably would have been able to beat Gon.
    It's not about him being weak, but about his style of fighting. Shizuku is also no martial artist and she's pretty tough.

    Quote Quote:
    We'll never understand Nen Consumption and anything calculated im pretty sure was never meant to be taken so literally that any calculation would accurately correlate to what we read...Just know in Context Razor has Nen to burn for days. olders Nen users are predominately especially if their Martial Artist which we know if a requirement for Hunters.
    That's almost impossible. Not even the RG have shown Nen that can run for days. Since we don't know how the GI system work, I can likewise speculate that he just helped in the creation of any card that uses Emission and then they became independent from him. Is it a baseless theory? Yes. There is no factual explanation as to how GI system work after all.

    Quote Quote:
    Sorry to point out this statement is highly your opinion. (Start that Thread though thats an interesting match up)

    Are you saying Uvo is HXH strongest basic/typical Enhancer? He's the strongest we've have seen but you can't say that he is the strongest HXH world is huge but Top 10 Human Enhancers in the manga I would agree.
    Not so much an opinion as it is an obvious thing(backed further by Chrollo's statement).

    I'm saying he's the strongest Enhancer we have seen. We'll just have to consider him so until other strong Enhancers appear.

    Quote Quote:
    Uvo is not invincible because he can tank Anti-Tank Bazooka shells, Sniper Fire he has a ridiculous defense and strenght that doesn't and can't always win a NEN match. Like Chrollo said Manipulators and Conjurers can easily 1up Uvo with their Hatsu depending on the details of such power...He's not invincible no Nen user is unless your the Transcendent King where, an Militia of Nen Users would be necessary....Uvo is a pretty smart enhancer but not that smart lets not give him too much credit he knows how to play chess but isn't great at it.
    Razor is not a Conjurer(though he can Conjure the Devils) and is not a Manipulator. Based on Chrollo's explanation, he stated that Uvo is weak against those two groups because Manipulators can manipulate him, while conjurers can add strange conditions to what they conjure. Again, Razor can do neither. He's a pretty straight forward fighter no matter how fancy his Nen looks. Uvo is not invincible, but he's the favorite in these kind of scenarios. He didn't demonstrate any sort of stupidity. As a matter of fact, he's quick calculations in his fight with Kurapika shows that he's as smart as the next guy. Razor also didn't demonstrate any sort of intellectual feats but you clearly consider him smart.

  12. #57
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    If power isn't absolute then why on earth are Gon and Killua always training like any good Shonen hero? Sure power doesn't make up for a Togashi bailout but nobody in HXH, even the ones who get the bailouts, assumes power isn't necessary. Why should the stronger guy be assumed to be dumber? The Spiders are pretty shocked to find Ubogin lost 1on1 (Shalunark was confident enough to not go with him, even though he's a Manipulation user and surely is aware of the tricks such a user can do), so even Ubogin is probably pretty smart at fighting tactics. And why would Razor, who is infamous enough to warrant Gin capturing him personally, somehow be even less experienced?

    I see the argument for Ubogin being one of the physically strongest guy around goes back to the initial concept of all humans are roughly equal. Ilumi didn't use aura, but Gon didn't even know such a thing existed back then, so there is no disadvantage for Ilumi back in the Hunter's exam. It's still an angry kid just walking up to him and breaking his arm. Kurapika's eyes did not turn red during the fight (he wasn't wearing contacts back then) and to the observers it looked like an even fight and no indication that Hisoka was throwing the fight. Again Hisoka didn't use aura here but Kurapika doesn't even know such a thing existed back then. But at around the GI mark we start getting the standard unequal power levels. When Killua and Gon are fighting Razor with their first set of teammates, Killua remarked that their teammates suck so much that he can beat them without aura. But wait, I thought it takes aura to beat aura? Apparently not if you trained hard enough. And how can Razor possibly be at the same level field as the rest? Here's the outcome of the dodge ball game, which is 1 of him versus 8 guys:

    Goreinu - Incapaciated
    The 1* guy - coughing up blood
    Biscuit - no damage
    Gon - Fainted from overusage of aura
    Killua - Both hands busted
    Hisoka - Broke all fingers on both hands (though probably could've gotten away with just 2 fingers broken)

    Compared to:

    Razor - No damage

    It's rather clear that Razor is not on the same playing field as his challengers, or he could not have possibly did 1 on 8 in the first place. Even his aura beasts are physically stronger than most of the guys he's facing. When you start with that kind of overall dominance, there's just no comparison. In general, existence of guys like Razor makes comparison meaningless, because that means any establish guidelines can be gotten around with "I trained harder than you".

  13. #58
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    I really don't get your point Phantron in your last post.

    Check this out though Phantron. A weapon is only as deadly as the person behind it. Ex.Benhzine Knife Chrollo used to cut Silvia with; Those knives carry an aura around them from their makers feelings for their craft. Any who's Without being adequate in Martial Arts your not going to be able to cut your opponent wheter they are stronger....

    Power is Absolute and then Absolute Power can be over come.

    It's like being Omnipotent; You create an unmoveable rock, Such a thing shouldn't stop an Omnipotent being but theoretically you with your omnipotent powers created an unmovable object....... There's no such thing as absolute power but Power is Power.

  14. #59
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Uvogin vs Razor

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    I was not trying to say Hisoka is stronger than Razor(even if think so). I don't think generation are relevant here. But Bungee Gum is arguably the most versatile Hatsu actually He can trap you with any attack, he can even stick it on his own guard, using it with his feet. Even with the coordination, the devils are unable to throw projectiles, maybe they'll be able to hit him but Hisoka will still be able to stick his gum on them all, makes them disappear will not affect the technique. And I remember he was able to control the gum without being in contact with it during his fight with Gon.

    The only thing we can rely on is the hexagram. The maximum note is 5 so it's not precise enough but that's all we have.
    i dont think hisoka is stronger than razor, but i think he would probably win in a fight

    hisoka is so well rounded that he makes up for what he might lack in strength (even though he is pretty damn strong) with is flexibility and analytic abilities

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