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Thread: Sub-Characters loose ends

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member heron bpv's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    What exactly is the problem of not having beautiful girls roaming around in HxH? Is that a necessity of sorts?

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    Wait, wait...You consider Pitou good looking? o_O
    During the height of the Ant arc, there was probably as much fanart coming from Japan as there was for the main characters.

    Granted part of that might be because there wasn't much of a choice out of the characters available.

    ---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by heron bpv View Post
    What exactly is the problem of not having beautiful girls roaming around in HxH? Is that a necessity of sorts?
    Just because you're not trying to sell girls doesn't mean anybody who happens to be female has to die horribly.

    Ponz, who was like #9 in the voting contest, probably should be in a bee farm somewhere but shows up in the Ant arc for no real good reason and dies horribly. I guess you can say some people just foolishly walk into their death but why pick fan favorites to do that? This isn't like Kite dying (who is also well-liked) because he actually has a reason to be there and he was in a tough spot to get out of.

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  4. #18
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member heron bpv's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    But, at least on Ponzu's case, she was there because Pokkuru was leading an investigation team and recruited her. Since they were on the same exam, he probably knew of her abilities and thought they would come in hand.
    Saying that they died without a reason, well... some deaths have no reason to begin with. And it's not like any of them were professionals on the same level as Kaito or Knuckle, so judging their prey's ability before it's too late was not to be expected.
    Also, what be a fan favorite has to do with influencing decisions made by the author of a story? He's the one in charge, he does as he thinks would be best for his story.

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  6. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Quote Originally Posted by heron bpv View Post
    But, at least on Ponzu's case, she was there because Pokkuru was leading an investigation team and recruited her. Since they were on the same exam, he probably knew of her abilities and thought they would come in hand.
    Saying that they died without a reason, well... some deaths have no reason to begin with. And it's not like any of them were professionals on the same level as Kaito or Knuckle, so judging their prey's ability before it's too late was not to be expected.
    Also, what be a fan favorite has to do with influencing decisions made by the author of a story? He's the one in charge, he does as he thinks would be best for his story.
    Most manga had the issue in that if you've a situation where someone has to die it's almost never the more popular characters.

    Togashi is more the opposite. Here you're talking about a situation where any number of random character could've showed up in Ponz's place and die (she's obviously not important to the story in any way) but Ponz probably got the axe precisely for being somewhat popular over any other random minor character.

    This tendency is also magnified by the frequency of hiatus. For example most people don't really care about Meleoron. It's not that you can't have a good character development with Meleoron, but if you know you might only get 10 chapters a year you'd rather 3 of them doesn't get wasted on a character almost nobody cares about. Perhaps if HXH is on a normal weekly schedule none of this would matter but obviously it is not, so it suffers from a rather unique problem. I don't know if Togashi does this on purpose, but if not, then he has absolutely no ability to budget his available time relative to the key characters. This isn't a 'I like XYZ so I want to see XYZ more". This is more like you're not even sure if a relatively story-significant character would even show up within 10 real life years of his/her last appearance (see Leorio).

    The way the sub characters gets abused in HXh would require One Piece level of long term durability (I think it went for like 9 years without any hiatus, or something similar) but of course Togashi is about as far away from durable as it gets.

  7. #20
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity TheBoss's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Most manga had the issue in that if you've a situation where someone has to die it's almost never the more popular characters.

    Togashi is more the opposite. Here you're talking about a situation where any number of random character could've showed up in Ponz's place and die (she's obviously not important to the story in any way) but Ponz probably got the axe precisely for being somewhat popular over any other random minor character.

    This tendency is also magnified by the frequency of hiatus. For example most people don't really care about Meleoron. It's not that you can't have a good character development with Meleoron, but if you know you might only get 10 chapters a year you'd rather 3 of them doesn't get wasted on a character almost nobody cares about. Perhaps if HXH is on a normal weekly schedule none of this would matter but obviously it is not, so it suffers from a rather unique problem. I don't know if Togashi does this on purpose, but if not, then he has absolutely no ability to budget his available time relative to the key characters. This isn't a 'I like XYZ so I want to see XYZ more". This is more like you're not even sure if a relatively story-significant character would even show up within 10 real life years of his/her last appearance (see Leorio).

    The way the sub characters gets abused in HXh would require One Piece level of long term durability (I think it went for like 9 years without any hiatus, or something similar) but of course Togashi is about as far away from durable as it gets.
    I dont care that Ponzu is popular or not, if togashi wanted her dead for the sake of the history development then she must die.
    This popular characters invulnerabity is what killed all the fun of the other shonen, like naruto for an example.
    People die, thats what makes the world what it is, no matter if they are popular or not.

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  9. #21
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoss View Post
    I dont care that Ponzu is popular or not, if togashi wanted her dead for the sake of the history development then she must die.
    This popular characters invulnerabity is what killed all the fun of the other shonen, like naruto for an example.
    People die, thats what makes the world what it is, no matter if they are popular or not.
    The opposite of mainstream does not imply good. This is one fatal flaw that keeps HXH always somewhat on the fringe as opposed to mainstream (though it sure sells a lot).

    We're not talking about One Piece where half of the Straw Hats have absolutely no business participating in fights and yet still miraculously survive every time. The girls of the Straw Hats should've died about 100 times by now if it was written by Togashi because they simply do not belong in the battlefield whatsoever.

    In the Ponz situation anybody could've died in her place. There's no shortage of existing characters and it's not like Togashi has a problem with adding new characters. There's no particular importance to why she died. She might be cute and a fan favorite but it's not like she has any impact to the story whatsoever. Kite getting killed was meaningful to the story (and ironically he came back from the dead anyway almost One Piece style, which makes his sacrifice pointless) so while a lot of people hated it too, it was probably necessary for the story. Ponz? It added absolutely nothing and seems to exist merely to annoy the fans.

    People are willing to put up with most of Togashi's problems as a human being because HXH is pretty darn good, but there's a limit to the amount of abuse people can put up for good manga. You look at a scene like Kite dying, who actually had a legitmate reason to die, and then he miraculously returned to life. Is it due to fan pressure or just a lapse in judgment? Who knows, but Kite who really did have a good reason to die somehow did not die, why should similarly popular characters get horribly killed when they don't even have a good reason to die in the first place?

    The Spiders should've lost about 3 guys while fighting Zanza. Only Phinx won his fight very comfortably, and quite a few of them got bailed out because their opponent was stupid. It'd be consistent with the idea that in HXH fights can go either way and even a minor mistake/matchup issue can get you killed. But what does killing 3 Spiders against Zanza achieve besides angering the significant Spider supporters for no reason whatsoever? If 3 of the Spiders died against Zanza, would the Ant arc be a better story? No, so it didn't happen, but it could have, showing Togashi isn't impartial. I find all this talk about HXH being unorthodox is very hypocritical. Togashi doesn't touch the Spiders or the main characters despite this reputation of 'no mercy'. Gon still got an author bailout after using a power that should either kill him or leave him as a vegetable for the rest of his life. No Togashi only axes the fringe popular characters, i.e. characters people like but probably won't quit over if they died. When the Zodiac appeared a lot of people thought the Rabbit girl was going to die horribly in Pariston's hands due to HXH's history, and again there's no particular reason why she should've died (she's not a particularly important member of the Zodiac), but most people guessed she'd die just because she was cute. That turned out to be wrong but it's reflective of people's expectation of HXH.
    Last edited by Phantron; September 30, 2012 at 04:06 PM.

  10. #22
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity TheBoss's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The opposite of mainstream does not imply good. This is one fatal flaw that keeps HXH always somewhat on the fringe as opposed to mainstream (though it sure sells a lot).

    We're not talking about One Piece where half of the Straw Hats have absolutely no business participating in fights and yet still miraculously survive every time. The girls of the Straw Hats should've died about 100 times by now if it was written by Togashi because they simply do not belong in the battlefield whatsoever.

    In the Ponz situation anybody could've died in her place. There's no shortage of existing characters and it's not like Togashi has a problem with adding new characters. There's no particular importance to why she died. She might be cute and a fan favorite but it's not like she has any impact to the story whatsoever. Kite getting killed was meaningful to the story (and ironically he came back from the dead anyway almost One Piece style, which makes his sacrifice pointless) so while a lot of people hated it too, it was probably necessary for the story. Ponz? It added absolutely nothing and seems to exist merely to annoy the fans.

    People are willing to put up with most of Togashi's problems as a human being because HXH is pretty darn good, but there's a limit to the amount of abuse people can put up for good manga. You look at a scene like Kite dying, who actually had a legitmate reason to die, and then he miraculously returned to life. Is it due to fan pressure or just a lapse in judgment? Who knows, but Kite who really did have a good reason to die somehow did not die, why should similarly popular characters get horribly killed when they don't even have a good reason to die in the first place?

    The Spiders should've lost about 3 guys while fighting Zanza. Only Phinx won his fight very comfortably, and quite a few of them got bailed out because their opponent was stupid. It'd be consistent with the idea that in HXH fights can go either way and even a minor mistake/matchup issue can get you killed. But what does killing 3 Spiders against Zanza achieve besides angering the significant Spider supporters for no reason whatsoever? If 3 of the Spiders died against Zanza, would the Ant arc be a better story? No, so it didn't happen, but it could have, showing Togashi isn't impartial. I find all this talk about HXH being unorthodox is very hypocritical. Togashi doesn't touch the Spiders or the main characters despite this reputation of 'no mercy'. Gon still got an author bailout after using a power that should either kill him or leave him as a vegetable for the rest of his life. No Togashi only axes the fringe popular characters, i.e. characters people like but probably won't quit over if they died. When the Zodiac appeared a lot of people thought the Rabbit girl was going to die horribly in Pariston's hands due to HXH's history, and again there's no particular reason why she should've died (she's not a particularly important member of the Zodiac), but most people guessed she'd die just because she was cute. That turned out to be wrong but it's reflective of people's expectation of HXH.
    I agree ^^
    But if we could predict togashi every move it wouldnt be fun either. I wonder if he actually let gon on a vegetable state, what it would have become of his manga ...

  11. #23
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoss View Post
    I agree ^^
    But if we could predict togashi every move it wouldnt be fun either. I wonder if he actually let gon on a vegetable state, what it would have become of his manga ...
    Well at some level the manga still has to entertain. If Gon become a vegetable or just flat out died from the side effects (sure seems like he's going to die if Alluka didn't get there) that doesn't make HXH a bad manga, but then it's really not entertaining. Is the point of HXH that life sucks and Gon never gets to see his father, and that his father was a moron who didn't even see his son for the last time before he died? That's not a bad message but again it's not entertaining.

    Despite Togashi's reputation as a 'no mercy' author, some characters are still more special than others. If Togashi lives up to his reputation quite a few more of the Spiders ought to have died because some of them drew some pretty bad matchups on the fight against Zanza. They didn't die because killing 3 Spiders while fighting a practically nobody is not entertaining and doesn't drive the story in any way, even though it is a perfectly plausibel outcome.

    Sometimes it almost feels like say you got the Spiders got away from a possible death, then to keep up his reputation as 'no mercy' Togashi needs to murder another character in a more gruesome way to show he hasn't become soft. But this is silly because Gon is far more important than the rest of the characters, so as a fan if you know Togashi isn't going to actually kill off Gon, it doesn't matter how many cute girls he axed, because they don't make up for the fact that Gon, or even Kite, didn't die, so why not have mercy for characters who have a reasonable shot at survival?

  12. #24
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member riniloves's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Neon no plot importance?
    I think naahh....
    How is there any gonna be conflict if Neon's ability wasnt stolen?
    That leads to the events to this.....
    Hisoka fake prediction, Paku's death, Kuroro going east, etc...
    If Neon's ability wasnt stolen then its a different story, the prediction become some sort of a warning to the Troupe...
    we know that Paku will die, Shalnark will die, Shizuku will die one of the 3 will die (Feitan, Phinx or Cortopi) and Hisoka will still leave and probably Kurapika dead or unable to use nen.
    I am sad thinking I wont be able to see her anymore in manga format, but thats how the story must go on...
    Last edited by riniloves; October 01, 2012 at 11:29 AM.

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  14. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rica_Patin's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Well I'm pretty sure we the Dark Continent will focus on Gon, Leorio, and Hanzo (it was theorized in another thread here that the scroll he's looking for is on the Dark Continent) and I feel that while they won't be on the Dark Continent there will be a simultaneous arc about Kurapika and Chrollo as we just saw Kurapika again in 340, and maybe Kurapika will end up recruiting Melody to work with him?. And I think that Killua and Alluka are going to basically be like Leorio and Kurapika for the next few arcs and just be doing their own things off screen.

  15. #26
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member bambinarubata's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Leorio now knows how to use nen and then we'll see. Kurapika is back in chapter 339 and he will return with the genei ryodan + Kuroro.

    Probably in the dark continent converge the interests of many. Kuroro was headed east .... may already be in the dark continent?
    Last edited by bambinarubata; October 25, 2012 at 04:25 AM.

  16. #27
    Artists of MH 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity FaustXIII's Avatar
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Well the Netero Flashback si really good for me and then after that Netero died.

    If the consequence of showing the sub-characters background story is when they are about to die in the series will you still consider it?
    Haha.

  17. #28
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    Re: Sub-Characters loose ends

    Quote Originally Posted by X3D2YFaust View Post
    Well the Netero Flashback si really good for me and then after that Netero died.

    If the consequence of showing the sub-characters background story is when they are about to die in the series will you still consider it?
    Haha.
    Not sure which manga is most well-known for this (Naruto maybe?) but there's definitely a theme of 'flashback = you're about to die' in some manga. I don't think HXH is particularly bad in it, it's more like almost all sub characters die anyway.

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