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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
you know what i just realized.
these aliesn are bullshiting. obviously the giants had the ability to fight them, even if they were driven away. obviously they sent humans the message so that the giants could nto regroup from far away and use whatever data they gathered about them to construct a method to kill them and take back their home.
and obviously the war damaged these freaky aliens enough that they had no way to travel after the giants themselves. and these two are simply agents sent to make sure things got done.
really oku? you really want us to buy that these assholes have some Greater Knowledge or some bullshit like that when they are exactly the same as the giants and humans?
---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------
the biggest proof they are just like us? THEY HAD TO KILL THE GUY WHO ATTACKED THEM! that was their only solution. if they had any true power or knowledge, killing him would have been totalyl unnecessary.
---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------
cause its obvious. it is obvious that the giants had the ability to fight back and hold their own, even if they were defeated. it is obvious that these freak aliens were so damaged by that war that they had no way to pursuing their enemy, and knew the giants were going to regroup, caculate the data they likely collected during the war, and eventually come back to take it back and wipe them out. it is obvious these two came to earth to pass on the required information and monitor the progress humans were making.
this is not some metaphysical crap, this is general sapient behavior. they are jsut acting all mystidcal and shit like that because of another sapient feature, which is Arrogance.
you cannot have them some kinda eldritch cosmic being when they obviously are afraid of injury, why the kill the kei clone, and show signs of foolishness. that being only the most insecure and arrogant fool would waste his time explaining to an ant why it is an ant.
^The aliens never acted mythical and shit though. At no point they have said or implied they are in any form divine or godly, that is merely the gantzters and perhaps our own interpretation of their behavior. Their point has never been that they are gods, they have merely made the point that human life is trifle and devoid of any inherent meaning. They have not once yet addressed the topic of how much their lives are worth for that matter.
Even killing kei is not something which really says much on the matter. Their starting point is that human life is not different from anything else on earth, that it is devoid of any transcendental meaning. So in that regard why would it be from their perspective killing kei any different from swating a fly? We don't kill flies because of a god complex, we do so because they are damn annoying and no matter how small they are still decease infested.
Seriously, the whole god thing is nothing that has ever been said by the aliens, we have to keep in mind that is merely the gantzters and our own interpretation of them. The aliens themselves have never said or implied they are any different from flesh and bone creatures with superior technology and culture (thousands, millions, billions ahead of our own).
The aliens just know where Kei, Reika and Kishimoto's 21 grams of soul are going to.
Oh....wow....seeing Kurono going down like this kinda hurts. I was expecting a kind of uprising against this alien but the way he was dispached is almost hilarious if he wasn't the main character.
Does this mean Kurono 1 will be the main character again ?
Besides, so much despair in the last few chapters and now he confirms that nothingness is NOT what awaits humans after death. If I was Katou I'd be partying, IMO reeincarnation was always a better concept than hell, heaven or just beinga ghost forever. Becoming old and tired of life ? Nothing better to solve all that boredom and lack of meaning than starting again without memories and in a new environment
Last edited by Somnus; October 15, 2012 at 05:38 PM.
2. Most likely to the gantz alien itself.
3. Yes. there lives are no different than ours.
4. The vampires were aliens living on the planet. I don't know how you couldn't figure that out.
5. We've seen everything Oku has to offer. That implies that thats all there. This isn't a real question. you just want more.
6. the black ball is based off the design of the Black Rectangle from 2001 a space odessy. Using a cube would be to close to the original.
Common Host Samuari in a gantz suit come up from behind in the air and slice these ????ers in half XD
It's just underwhelming, that's all. There are aspects of this manga that were explained very matter-of-fact-ly (such as Sebastion and the 100-pointer being of the race of god-like aliens and/or these aliens themselves...that was no explanation, not the one we deserved. It was an easy way out that was shown to us through art and a slight comment from a guy who was dragged into this game, not a plot point tied up and explored properly) and other aspects that will more than likely not be explained at all (Vampires, and I understand this isn't a big issue but for his last lines to be "I don't feel like it anymore" is a complete cop-out and clearly was not meant to be his last hurrah).
Qualms and all, I still like this manga and I am still going support it and it will continue to be one of my favorites. But the potential that this manga had is going down the drain very fast. Instead of being the epic, thoughtful, original manga it would have been if Oku took his time and wasn't caving rushing things for whatever irrelevant reason, then this series would end up being so amazing. It still is, but now many fans, myself included, will look upon it's last years as being a mediocrity instead of a blast of inspiration, action and wonder; just as it began. It fits the themes of the manga though, I suppose. We know nothing, we are nothing, and we are all apart of a game created by those far more powerful and wiser than ourselves. It's just sad, that's all; the potential that's lost, that is. It's as if this series was building up to something more, something huge and amazing that would echo the way it began, and then it just...falls flat on its face with a weak explanation and a sub-par ending.
Rationalize it all you'd like, but it's clear that this is not the ending that Oku had planned. The entire direction, meaning, story and end-game for Gantz changed drastically and immediately; something happened to make Oku change his plans and it was not a good influence. Be it Japanese society (oh, the irony that would have) or something personal in Oku's life, something changed his plans entirely. I realize he isn't the greatest storyteller, but to come up with something that started so wonderfully to end like a puff of smoke is absolutely disheartening.
All that said, I'm still interested in where this is going and I'll stick with it to the end. I just hope that it isn't going to be as dull and unfulfilling as I think it will be.
@ Kliff: In regards to your explanations to Sollum
You're not qualified to make those assertions in any way. Some of them are even flat out wrong. The vampires are not aliens. If that were the case, then Kei Kurono and his brother would be aliens given that they're related by blood and one of them was a vampire. The vampires are named aptly for their need for blood, not because they are the mythical creatures that turn into bats and live for eternity. They were a created by humans on Earth, and even if they got the technology from somewhere else (which still is not the case if we are to assume the manga is not 'lying'), they were still the product of human experimentation. Nothing alien about them. This is straight up explained in the manga.
Next, where is this 'Gantz alien' you speak of? There has never been anything called that in the manga and nothing has been explained or even hinting at where the X-gun victims go or what happens to them. Gantz alien...now that's an ass-pull. It's a name for something we don't even know of yet and/or if it even exists. If you're referring to these beings that say they created the Gantz technology, why would you assume it went to them simply because they created it and how do we know that everything they're telling the Gantz hunters is true? On the contrary, I would think they would be sent to a damaged, desolate planet. Why would these god-like beings even want to deal with the ruffians of the universe? They're so far below them that they're less than ants, since humans are equating to ants to these being and the humans have killed off most of the aliens.
Finally, where do you get the idea that aliens are no different than us and how the hell did you reach that conclusion? We don't even know what other kinds of aliens there are, where they come from, how they came into being, and how the concept of death would even affect them. Yet again, that one came from the deepest, darkest place of bowel. Absolutely no fact at all. Yes, one can assume that their lives are no different than ours, but that would be foolish and a leap of assumption. You stated it as if you know, which you cannot since it hasn't even been touched upon. Which brings me to my main point:
This is sloppy writing and an even sloppier way of going about it. I wish we did have facts to go on that you could prove me wrong with, except we don't because these explanations have clearly been rushed for whatever reason and others are being brushed under the rug entirely. This story is not being sewn together nicely as it should be, as it was looking to be those months and months ago when the catastrophe began. No, this is being wrapped up with duct-tape and stapled quickly all under the guise of a story that has clearly degraded from its former glory. Oku should have taken whatever or however many bullets he needed to so that he could end the story on his own terms and the proper way so that we could look back and re-read this series and have the questions that have driven this series since the beginning answered properly and in a fashion that reflected how it began. Instead we're faced with a story that feels alien (harhar) to what it began as and explanations that feel foreign to the questions that begged them in the first place. It's not only poor writing, it's a complete failure in the eyes of a fan who has been consumed by this formerly wonderfully imaginative story from the beginning.
I understand that opinions are assholes and everyone has one and everyone thinks someone else's stinks to high hell. But even a grade-school fool can read this story and realize that something broke at some point and that this is not what was meant to be. It's cool, it's fine, but it's nothing more than that; and it certainly isn't the adult that the child called Gantz should have grown up to be. I'm
Last edited by AxelCross; October 15, 2012 at 06:55 PM.
Anyway you aren't serious are you? There's no evidence for any of that occurring in the real world. Everything we know about memory suggests that being 'reborn' and experiencing a past life is impossible. Once the body breaks down everything about you scatters. Fair enough if you believe an intangible soul is wandering around the universe, manifesting itself in new bodies over time or whatever, but nothing physical is ever going to travel from one continent to another on its own like that. Forget that Reika's matter is trapped on a spaceship in outerspace. Even if she died in Tokyo it wouldn't happen like that. To me this is complete bullshit.
Deal with it.
The Y-gun probably teleported shit back to the gantz alien.
Its hilarious that you got so caught up on the fact that I said "gantz alien" and then said, that was never shown in the manga.
I guess you've failed to realize that these current aliens have no name, so we create them for it.
I've been calling him the gantzman for a while now, that worked fine.
But I guess you couldn't put 2 and 2 together to figure out that by "gantz aliens" I meant the guys in the room.
then you backtracked and figured out I was talking about the aliens in the room. Took you long enough.
The aliens are no different than us because thats a prevailing theme throughout the entire manga.
Guess you missed that one.
---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------
But reincarnation is a religious believe. The conversation of energy on the other hand is scientific theory. Which can be extrapolated to this situation.
Oku is telling you to your face, that what constitutes you does not get destroyed, and manifests itself into another body later on.
And that what constitutes what we are is capable of having a connection to other beings which keeps us intertwined through various re-births.
The alien is literally spelling it all out for you.
Remember, this is science fiction. good science fiction has elements that can be found in real life understandings that are real.
The law of conservation of energy states that energy can be neither created nor destroyed, it can only change form.
The alien didn't destory Kei's existence, and told you flat out, that it will manifest itself once again in 20 years.
Last edited by kliff2004; October 15, 2012 at 07:55 PM.
also not to mention their claims that they just did this all for the lols, which is total and obvious bullshit, and i am shocked that not one human there realizes it. i do not care what the author's intents are, it is obvious that these guys were afraid. they may have defeated the giants, but the giants were heading t oa new world to regroup. it is obvious that the giants held their own. and it is likely that these gantz aliens had lost far too mayn resources, and the giant fleeing was, in fact, their loss. the giants had managed to retain enough resources to transport their entire population while the gantz aliens could not pursue. so they sent these two assholes to earth to warn and monitor the humans, using them as pawns so the giants could not get a foot hold and recover, and likely use data they likely gathered from the war to find a method to defeat the gantz aliens.
and i repeat, i do not care if the author is stating these guys really had no good reason for their actions. it is SO fucking obvious that it works far better that the gantz liens are bullshitting around because of raw, sapient pride, and refuse to even consider the implication that they truly needed the humans help in makign sure the giants do not return, stronger than before. this whole orchestra of superiority is obvious proof of this.
All along you've been saying this stuff is actually possible. It's absolutely not. To say that there's even a remote possibility that this shit makes any sense at all is retarded.
What constitutes me when I die is NOT going to manifest itself in another body. Bits of me will go here, bits of me will go there. To say that Oku is basing any of this on reality is ludicrous. I know what the law of conservation is, but saying that 2 chapters ago, and then saying that the Tokyo team will be born into the same family in the US... that's insane. That's not based on anything.
Sorry but you're grasping at straws here. The vague reference that nothing can be destroyed (from 2 chapters ago) has no place here. This page we got in the spoilers is just Oku talking shit.
Conservation of energy has absolutely no link to reincarnation. It just means that when an animal dies in the wild, it's body breaks down and is scattered all over the place. Sometimes the plants pick up on that shit, or maybe your body is used to feed and fuel another animal, and so bits of you continue to exist all over the place. Pretending this supports reincarnation would be a lie.
Last edited by Damura; October 15, 2012 at 07:58 PM.
except he is stating that THESE aliens are, in fact, superior to all other things in gantz right now. these guys claim all other life is beneath them, all other life are ants, and not once did they state they were no different in that respect than human beings were.
---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------
so someone else noticed that, huh?
it is obvious that this is a total shift from hsi original plan. we switched from the gantz beating those superhuman bugs with just katanas to having humanity utterly insignificant again in a heart beat. this sis an obvious sign of a man who changed at the last minute and did not go with the original plan even if the changes ruined the story.
Well I was thinking you were talking about real life. I've heard people say 'yes there's a soul, because the body loses weight when you die'. But who says that has anything to do with a soul?
According to wikipedia the study was performed over a hundred years ago and is generally considered meaningless.
---------- Post added at 09:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------
Oku: bend over guys, it's time to get shafted.
Last edited by Damura; October 15, 2012 at 08:09 PM.
They didn't just claim to do it for the lolz, they just claim they did not do it for humans. So far their objective seems to have been earth as a whole, which they had a choice to protect or not. As far as them not being able to pursue, that is a huge assumption. Was there ever any mention that the giants were regrouping to invade those guys again? As far as I recall that was never a thing. And why would they pursue the giants for that matter? War is as a whole expensive regardless of the scenario so if the invaders are backing off then why would they pursue? I guess I just can't imagine an alien race thousands, perhaps millions of years ahead of us in terms of culture, economics and technology just pursuing a revenge after technically winning a war. If their economy was that destroyed then even considering a war should not really be a thing.
There is also the consideration that the technology which defeated the giants is 30 years old. Basically what this would imply is that measly humans took 30 year old technology and defeated the giants which the creators of the technology had trouble defeating. I don't think that makes sense at all.