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Thread: Bleach 510 Discussion

  1. #301
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member daman246's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    The thing is Yama Had to use his Bankai Against rYOID/lYOID the Yourself and by Juha Bach Standards the White hair guy is the leader of the SR, so if we think about it if the white hair guy were to have faught yama, he would of probably won.

    Juha Bach
    White Hair Guy
    Stern Ritters

  2. #302
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    No, he was outsmarted. Mayuri warned him of a potential Quincy problem and he ignored it, even though he knew Bach was out there for a thousand years. Yamamoto was an arrogant fool who thought his raw power was enough. You'd think he'd have learned some humility after Aizen dispatched him without a fight, but apparently not.

    Spoiler show
    I don't think agree with the shinigami being outsmarted. The sole issue the shinigami have with the war is the bankai stealing thing. Bankai represents to a shinigami an increase of 10 times their fighting capacity and perhaps even more importantly it is an intrinsic part of their very soul. It is not something that was ever an issue before, it was inconceivable. Its not like the quincy somehow outmaneuvered the shinigami or the shinigami used some sort of inefective strategy, the quincy simply deviced an absurd way to outright negate 90% of the power of the only asset worth something in SS. Even aizen could not come up with a way to neutralize bankai to that degree. Even with his sheer intellect and wishing orb he had to modify an arrancar who apparently had the ability to seal or negate abilities to begin with to deal with yamamoto's zampakuto.

    Not to mention the fact that in any other scenario yamamoto's raw power would have been enough. His power is huge beyond the captain level, even hordes of captain level enemies would have to his RJ, let alone zanka no tachi. In war there are a few things you can and should prepare for however how do you prepare to fight a war while being to a very literal extent arbitrarily unarmed?

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  4. #303
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member vizardichigo's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    I remember Mayuri saying that but in reality i do not see what Yama could have done...I mean yes Mayuri was nervous about a possible Quincy uprising due to the events that took place with Ishida, but those were extraordinary circumstances my friend...I mean a Quincy and a shinigami substitute working together??? Even if Mayuri kinda guessed there were still some pissed off Quincy out there, that does not mean that anyone could have forseen a full invasion and such...Not saying that i do not understand what you are saying, but i think circumstances and the plot worked against Yama simply because that is the way Kubo needed it to go...Characters are only as " smart " or "dumb" as the plot devices that work for/ against them make them out to be....
    Thank You Kubo...You have proven once and for all, that Yamamoto Genryuusai is STRONGER THAN AIZEN SOUSUKE despite what the fanboys think

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  6. #304
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SaitoSpike's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    No, he was outsmarted. Mayuri warned him of a potential Quincy problem and he ignored it, even though he knew Bach was out there for a thousand years. Yamamoto was an arrogant fool who thought his raw power was enough. You'd think he'd have learned some humility after Aizen dispatched him without a fight, but apparently not.

    Spoiler show
    i would like to agree with your statement but i mean all the ppl who criticize Yama-ji are all fans of of other shinigami who actually GET TO DO WHAT THEY WANT....why? because they arent the CC and often with disregard to consequences (not at yama's level of responsibility anyways) we can easily name the top 3 favourite captains as top offenders....Byakuya, Toshiro and Kenpachi...sure we always give them a break but it seems to me Yama has ALOT to deal with alot more than we even get to see....ppl to report to

    nobody ever seems to put this into consideration, i'm fairly sure that Yama's more stubborn than arrogant....i dont believe thats the right word....but one can be stubborn and still be wise i jus find it very unfair how Yama is so often disrespected in this forum when all responsibility always falls on his shoulders everyone else keeps getting passes for the stupid shit they do...meanwhile this guy's gotta take on genius/overpowered/immortals with ridiculous abilities (Aizen, Juha) and we crucify yama instantly

    its a shame really

    heck we dont even know Yama's story but it always seems to be hate on yama day in here, of course its easy when the author hasnt given us a chance to feel empathetic/sympathetic towards him like Toshiro's story or Byakuya's story etc.....

    we dont know what happened 1000 years ago, we dont know why Yama is the way he is, we hate on him constantly and yet who else could handle his job?.....

    well either way i guess its about to be vacant soon

    but dont be fooled into believing Kubo will let him go without redemption whch is why i say this fight's not quite over
    Last edited by SaitoSpike; October 03, 2012 at 09:52 PM.

    Only one thing stirs my emotion. Aku. Soku. Zan. For the sake of my justice alone!

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  8. #305
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Sonia Khan's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Still dont get it why he tried to use his Bankai plus was he weakened due to the usage of his Bankai or cutting him was always THAT easy ???

  9. #306
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post

    If you're trying to look at who has the more devastating attack (which you are obviously ^_^) then you should be FAR more impressed with Ichigo's ability to trash the equivalent of a BLACK HOLE with his bare hands("Butterfly Aizen fully powered 90 Black Coffin") created by Aizen.

    The Torrent of gravity for this attack Aizen unleashed is so great that it warps TIME & SPACE http://www.mangareader.net/94-57111-...apter-418.html

    Do you know what would likely happen (according to science) when THE WHOLE SUN(including the mass, weight & even size) clashes with a black hole? Huh? Do you?

    Warping Time & Space > Sun (It is far more logical too lol) search it up.
    There is no logic when it comes to Yama, or did you forget Shunsui's words? A kido spell that Aizen has to chant is somehow going to 'warp time and space' and Yama will just sit there and watch? lol, talk about logic! Yama did a higher level kido against Aizen, without incantation AFTER he just ate all his fire. I don't need to search for something that doesn't literally apply to bleach. You know black holes are born from the death of stars? Look it up
    Last edited by freshseth83; October 04, 2012 at 12:03 AM.

  10. #307
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    No, he was outsmarted. Mayuri warned him of a potential Quincy problem and he ignored it, even though he knew Bach was out there for a thousand years.
    Well, to the best of our knowledge Uryū Ishida isn't a member of Vandenreich and his presence in SS arc was the personal decision of a single quincy who was trying to help his friends. As long as Bach was alive, the quincy problem was there and SS couldn't have been on the alert for someone who's willing to wait for a thousand years to strike back.

    The ironic part in Mayuri's accusations was that if preparations had to be made, it was his division that was mostly responsible. It was Mayuri who fought Uryū and witnessed the full power and abilities of a quincy, it was Mayuri who had examined countless quincy bodies. It was his duty to come up with some sort of counter or weapon against quincies as the head of research division.

    Even if Vandenreich had given SS notice and said they would attack SS in 10 years with their bankai stealing devices, IMHO there's not much that could be done. I don't think Urahara or Mayuri could negate the devices without seeing them in action, SS would just wait for the inevitable to happen. It's not Yamamoto's or anyone else's fault that the villains in Bleach have hax objects like hogyoku or medallions.

  11. #308
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member alisdfd's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    I am really disappointed by this chapter and storyline. I wonder if this was all set up for Ichigo to win the battle against Jura. Hmmmm is it me or am I worried for Ichigo who is still trapped.

    Does anybody else think that there are other shingam in soul society who is not affiliated to the Gotei 13 squad.

    Maybe it is them who killed the qunicy who was fighting Ichigo.

    Hmmmm. Where is Ichigo? And will his dad come into this story as well I assume he has history wid the quincy.

    ---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 AM ----------

    Bleach is slowly getting worse the story and everything makes it the worse manga this week

  12. #309
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    I think most people who see this a set up for ichigo are jumping the gun far to quickly, there's still a hell of alot to go on in this arc. Also anyone who is hating on Yama is pretty much saying that he should of seen this coming, the bloke didn't have a crystal ball to see the events take place, how was he to know Juha went to see Aizen, Yama saw a man who looked identical to his rival from 1000years ago a reacted, what is a little disappointing was the fact he tried to use the bankai again, that split second decision on Yama's part was foolish but he had no other choice, there is no way he could have foreseen any of these outcomes, and you can't knock him down for it... He did what he thought was necessary but Juha was 3 or even 4 steps in front. But that is the art of war keep your enemies guessing at all times
    Spoiler show

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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Well, now all we need is Mayuri and Kisuke to develop a tool to seal medallions. So neither quincies nor shinigamis can use bankais anymore.

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  15. #311
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    There is no logic when it comes to Yama, or did you forget Shunsui's words? A kido spell that Aizen has to chant is somehow going to 'warp time and space' and Yama will just sit there and watch? lol, talk about logic! Yama did a higher level kido against Aizen, without incantation AFTER he just ate all his fire. I don't need to search for something that doesn't literally apply to bleach. You know black holes are born from the death of stars? Look it up
    It would seem You are the one reaching afterall.
    You said things like "Ichigo didn't even kill Aizen" while completely ignoring the fact that Aizen CANNOT BE KILLED since he's IMMORTAL because of the hogyoku (which is why he was sealed and jailed instead). He is the only true immortal in this manga known thus far.
    You think If Aizen can be killed, Yamamoto wouldn't have had him killed by now? Are you somehow trying to ignore just how dangerious Aizen is and what crimes he's committed?
    SS had no reason to let Aizen live whatsoever. NONE!!

    You're also trying fervently to downgrade Hogyoku Aizen's accomplishments/feats, even going as far as to say it's somewhat comparable to what Kenpachi did. How ridiculous is that? Aizen can permanently destroy dementional beings like the dangai train(something that NO shinigami can do) http://www.mangareader.net/94-53161-...apter-407.html and cast a fobbiden spell when fueled with his reiatsu, it can warp space and time.

    This btw is a hypothesis(but backed by logic & research) but If a massive black hole came close to the sun(depending on it mass and etc), the black hole would start absorbing the sun's essence, until it consumes it. The density of a black hole is infinite(yes literally infinite) times greater than the sun. Here we have many definitions for a black hole https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=bl...w=1366&bih=650



    Now, you said "unless you think Ichigo is immune to the core of the sun" and you also told us to "apply logic to our statements" because Ichigo isn't immume to the core of the sun(Talk about contracticting yourself big time lol). What this statement says is that you think the core of the SUN that is Yamamoto is that big of a deal to Ichigo (because It's the freakin CORE OF THE SUN) and you keep urging us to apply logic in the sense that Ichigo is not immune to the freakin core of the sun.

    Well, if you want us to apply logic, logic says Ichigo shouldn't even be capable of escaping Aizen's Hadou 90 because naturally, he should have be swallowed up and consumed, yet Ichigo literally slapped the attack and it shattered.

    Therefore, what Ichigo did isn't at all logically (by our standards ) so how did he do it?

    There's only one way that makes sense now and that's REIATSU.

    We should stop telling Kubo indirectly to shut up because we think, all of sudden, Reiatsu doesn't matter anymore. When are we going to get it though our heads that every battle IN BLEACH is of reiatsu.

    How potent your reiatsu is, how controlled your reiatsu is, your mastery of reiatsu, your knowledge & insight of reiatsu, how preceptive you are in terms of reiatsu and blah blah etc reiatsu is very vital and in fact KEY in a fight in bleach(This is a law Kubo wrote down not me). Of course you should always try to improve combat abilities like battle intelligence, speed, ability, strength and etc but REIATSU is what gives any of these things real significance.

    The reason why Ichigo wasn't smashed & crushed http://www.mangareader.net/94-526-19...hapter-72.html = REIATSU

    The reason why Ichigo could clash swords with Grimmjow in his final fight while he couldn't before = better control of REIATSU

    The reason he took little to no damage against Grimmjow's cero in the final fight = better control of REIATSU http://www.mangareader.net/94-733-19...apter-279.html

    The reason Aizen stopped Ichigo (from the SS arc) sword with a single finger = REIATSU

    The reason Ichigo at first didn't do damage against Kenpachi and even received damage instead http://www.mangareader.net/94-559-7/...apter-105.html = REIATSU

    The reason Ichigo destroyed Aizen the way he did = REIATSU

    The reason Ichigo took damage against a Nnoitra's fraccion using only basic kicks = Lack of REIATSU

    The reason why Aizen can smash Komamura bankai and even took no damage from it's huge sword slash = REIATSU

    The reason Aizen can negate Soi fong Shikai's ability(not saying he did but he certainly can) = REIATSU

    The reason Yamamoto level characters or above can push away or negate Barragan's respira attack = REIATSU

    The reason Yamamoto's bankai is as hot as the sun = REIATSU

    The Reason Aizen & Ichigo are so powerful = REIATSU


    Don't even use Shunsui's words as a cop out because there's certainly a limit to his words. Shunsui words make sense in the sense that Logic most times won't work against Yamamoto who is not only at the peak of what a nomal shinigami can achieve but also can be as hot as the core of the sun. No nomal shinigami up to date can battle such an ability because they cannot get close to Yamamoto without risking getting potentially burned. We know his reiatsu is what made his bankai this hot so he must have a huge amount of it.

    Dangai Ichigo and Aizen do not cling on or limit themselves to such logic because they became beings that surpasses that logic. http://www.mangareader.net/94-53161-...apter-407.html
    Their reiatsu potency is above Yamamoto's by a huge amount.
    Last edited by Kay3795; October 04, 2012 at 10:06 AM.

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  17. #312
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    is anyone else confused about what went on with aizen? i know that juha bach said that he turned down his alliance, but is he free? or did he stay in prison? or did bach kill him?

  18. #313
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Silhouette's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Let’s state some overlooked facts/sequence of events in the current discussion about Yama-jii’s actions:

    1- Yama-Jii did not go bankai against Juha’s imposter because he was too powerful to be fought with Shikai. Yama-jii wounded “Juha” with his Shikai. Yama went bankai because he wanted to make “Juha” taste enormous pain and defeat to his very core . This desire of ravishing Juha’s core itself was emphasized again and again with Zaka no Itachi East, West, South and North

    2- Yama-jii was neither arrogant nor stubborn when he used his bankai. His thinking was very logical but unfortunately based on true but irrelevant factors:
    Fact: Quincies could not steal Ichigo’s bankai
    Fact: Other captains’ bankais were stolen
    Fact: the only difference between Ichigo’s bankai and captain’s bankais is that Ichigo’s bankai showed a great deal of improvement in the course of the past arc.

    Conclusion: The limits of Ichigo’s banakai are unknown and consequently cannot be stolen. Zanka No Itachi’s limits are unknown to the Quincies, therefore it cannot be stolen
    The miscalculation was made by factoring in facts about bankais themselves instead of the person(s) trying to steal them. Had Yama-jii thought that the difference was in the person(s) trying to steal bankais, then maybe things would have been different. Also, note that Yama-jii arrived at that conclusion before leaving to battle. Unfortunately, Yama-jii did not know the truth until he fought the real Juha

    What makes this arc very interesting to me is that Shinigamis are in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. If you don’t use banaki, then you will be owned badly (remember Renji and Shinsui?) and if you do use your banki then you will still be wiped out (Byakuya and everyone else who used his bankai). I am looking forward to seeing how things will work out
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  19. #314
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Not paricularly fond of the chapter. It seemed obvious that we would see some sort of reveal, either a new villain or the real Juha, this week. However, Yamamoto's sudden loss of his Bankai was kind of lame. We've seen it before. I get that there is likely no one capable of taking on Yama, but at least give him some time to destroy someone of relevance. If Yama goes down like this, it would be, in my opinion, pretty weak.

    I'm also wondering what the deal is with Aizen, what exactly happened with him? What is his current status?

  20. #315
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    is anyone else confused about what went on with aizen? i know that juha bach said that he turned down his alliance, but is he free? or did he stay in prison? or did bach kill him?
    I'm curious about this, too. Bach destroyed the 1st division baracks, so no one is guarding the prison any more. But he could either have set Aizen free or left him to rot. His line about Aizen "having an eternity" to think about his decision can be taken two ways - Either Bach's willing to let him reconsider, or he's going to keep him locked up with no second chances. Personally I don't think he'd let someone he's labelled a Special Potential run around freely, so I'm guessing he's left Aizen bound up in the prison. Either way, it seems he's left him alive.

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