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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
The thing is Yama Had to use his Bankai Against rYOID/lYOID the Yourself and by Juha Bach Standards the White hair guy is the leader of the SR, so if we think about it if the white hair guy were to have faught yama, he would of probably won.
White Hair Guy
Not to mention the fact that in any other scenario yamamoto's raw power would have been enough. His power is huge beyond the captain level, even hordes of captain level enemies would have to his RJ, let alone zanka no tachi. In war there are a few things you can and should prepare for however how do you prepare to fight a war while being to a very literal extent arbitrarily unarmed?
I remember Mayuri saying that but in reality i do not see what Yama could have done...I mean yes Mayuri was nervous about a possible Quincy uprising due to the events that took place with Ishida, but those were extraordinary circumstances my friend...I mean a Quincy and a shinigami substitute working together??? Even if Mayuri kinda guessed there were still some pissed off Quincy out there, that does not mean that anyone could have forseen a full invasion and such...Not saying that i do not understand what you are saying, but i think circumstances and the plot worked against Yama simply because that is the way Kubo needed it to go...Characters are only as " smart " or "dumb" as the plot devices that work for/ against them make them out to be....
nobody ever seems to put this into consideration, i'm fairly sure that Yama's more stubborn than arrogant....i dont believe thats the right word....but one can be stubborn and still be wise i jus find it very unfair how Yama is so often disrespected in this forum when all responsibility always falls on his shoulders everyone else keeps getting passes for the stupid shit they do...meanwhile this guy's gotta take on genius/overpowered/immortals with ridiculous abilities (Aizen, Juha) and we crucify yama instantly
its a shame really
heck we dont even know Yama's story but it always seems to be hate on yama day in here, of course its easy when the author hasnt given us a chance to feel empathetic/sympathetic towards him like Toshiro's story or Byakuya's story etc.....
we dont know what happened 1000 years ago, we dont know why Yama is the way he is, we hate on him constantly and yet who else could handle his job?.....
well either way i guess its about to be vacant soon
but dont be fooled into believing Kubo will let him go without redemption whch is why i say this fight's not quite over
Last edited by SaitoSpike; October 03, 2012 at 09:52 PM.
Still dont get it why he tried to use his Bankai plus was he weakened due to the usage of his Bankai or cutting him was always THAT easy ???
words? A kido spell that Aizen has to chant is somehow going to 'warp time and space' and Yama will just sit there and watch? lol, talk about logic! Yama did a higher level kido against Aizen, without incantation AFTER he just ate all his fire. I don't need to search for something that doesn't literally apply to bleach. You know black holes are born from the death of stars? Look it up
Last edited by freshseth83; October 04, 2012 at 12:03 AM.
The ironic part in Mayuri's accusations was that if preparations had to be made, it was his division that was mostly responsible. It was Mayuri who fought Uryū and witnessed the full power and abilities of a quincy, it was Mayuri who had examined countless quincy bodies. It was his duty to come up with some sort of counter or weapon against quincies as the head of research division.
Even if Vandenreich had given SS notice and said they would attack SS in 10 years with their bankai stealing devices, IMHO there's not much that could be done. I don't think Urahara or Mayuri could negate the devices without seeing them in action, SS would just wait for the inevitable to happen. It's not Yamamoto's or anyone else's fault that the villains in Bleach have hax objects like hogyoku or medallions.
I am really disappointed by this chapter and storyline. I wonder if this was all set up for Ichigo to win the battle against Jura. Hmmmm is it me or am I worried for Ichigo who is still trapped.
Does anybody else think that there are other shingam in soul society who is not affiliated to the Gotei 13 squad.
Maybe it is them who killed the qunicy who was fighting Ichigo.
Hmmmm. Where is Ichigo? And will his dad come into this story as well I assume he has history wid the quincy.
---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 AM ----------
Bleach is slowly getting worse the story and everything makes it the worse manga this week
I think most people who see this a set up for ichigo are jumping the gun far to quickly, there's still a hell of alot to go on in this arc. Also anyone who is hating on Yama is pretty much saying that he should of seen this coming, the bloke didn't have a crystal ball to see the events take place, how was he to know Juha went to see Aizen, Yama saw a man who looked identical to his rival from 1000years ago a reacted, what is a little disappointing was the fact he tried to use the bankai again, that split second decision on Yama's part was foolish but he had no other choice, there is no way he could have foreseen any of these outcomes, and you can't knock him down for it... He did what he thought was necessary but Juha was 3 or even 4 steps in front. But that is the art of war keep your enemies guessing at all times
Well, now all we need is Mayuri and Kisuke to develop a tool to seal medallions. So neither quincies nor shinigamis can use bankais anymore.
You said things like "Ichigo didn't even kill Aizen" while completely ignoring the fact that Aizen CANNOT BE KILLED since he's IMMORTAL because of the hogyoku (which is why he was sealed and jailed instead). He is the only true immortal in this manga known thus far.
You think If Aizen can be killed, Yamamoto wouldn't have had him killed by now? Are you somehow trying to ignore just how dangerious Aizen is and what crimes he's committed?
SS had no reason to let Aizen live whatsoever. NONE!!
You're also trying fervently to downgrade Hogyoku Aizen's accomplishments/feats, even going as far as to say it's somewhat comparable to what Kenpachi did. How ridiculous is that? Aizen can permanently destroy dementional beings like the dangai train(something that NO shinigami can do) http://www.mangareader.net/94-53161-...apter-407.html and cast a fobbiden spell when fueled with his reiatsu, it can warp space and time.
This btw is a hypothesis(but backed by logic & research) but If a massive black hole came close to the sun(depending on it mass and etc), the black hole would start absorbing the sun's essence, until it consumes it. The density of a black hole is infinite(yes literally infinite) times greater than the sun. Here we have many definitions for a black hole https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=bl...w=1366&bih=650
Now, you said "unless you think Ichigo is immune to the core of the sun" and you also told us to "apply logic to our statements" because Ichigo isn't immume to the core of the sun(Talk about contracticting yourself big time lol). What this statement says is that you think the core of the SUN that is Yamamoto is that big of a deal to Ichigo (because It's the freakin CORE OF THE SUN) and you keep urging us to apply logic in the sense that Ichigo is not immune to the freakin core of the sun.
Well, if you want us to apply logic, logic says Ichigo shouldn't even be capable of escaping Aizen's Hadou 90 because naturally, he should have be swallowed up and consumed, yet Ichigo literally slapped the attack and it shattered.
Therefore, what Ichigo did isn't at all logically (by our standards ) so how did he do it?
There's only one way that makes sense now and that's REIATSU.
We should stop telling Kubo indirectly to shut up because we think, all of sudden, Reiatsu doesn't matter anymore. When are we going to get it though our heads that every battle IN BLEACH is of reiatsu.
How potent your reiatsu is, how controlled your reiatsu is, your mastery of reiatsu, your knowledge & insight of reiatsu, how preceptive you are in terms of reiatsu and blah blah etc reiatsu is very vital and in fact KEY in a fight in bleach(This is a law Kubo wrote down not me). Of course you should always try to improve combat abilities like battle intelligence, speed, ability, strength and etc but REIATSU is what gives any of these things real significance.
The reason why Ichigo wasn't smashed & crushed http://www.mangareader.net/94-526-19...hapter-72.html = REIATSU
The reason why Ichigo could clash swords with Grimmjow in his final fight while he couldn't before = better control of REIATSU
The reason he took little to no damage against Grimmjow's cero in the final fight = better control of REIATSU http://www.mangareader.net/94-733-19...apter-279.html
The reason Aizen stopped Ichigo (from the SS arc) sword with a single finger = REIATSU
The reason Ichigo at first didn't do damage against Kenpachi and even received damage instead http://www.mangareader.net/94-559-7/...apter-105.html = REIATSU
The reason Ichigo destroyed Aizen the way he did = REIATSU
The reason Ichigo took damage against a Nnoitra's fraccion using only basic kicks = Lack of REIATSU
The reason why Aizen can smash Komamura bankai and even took no damage from it's huge sword slash = REIATSU
The reason Aizen can negate Soi fong Shikai's ability(not saying he did but he certainly can) = REIATSU
The reason Yamamoto level characters or above can push away or negate Barragan's respira attack = REIATSU
The reason Yamamoto's bankai is as hot as the sun = REIATSU
The Reason Aizen & Ichigo are so powerful = REIATSU
Don't even use Shunsui's words as a cop out because there's certainly a limit to his words. Shunsui words make sense in the sense that Logic most times won't work against Yamamoto who is not only at the peak of what a nomal shinigami can achieve but also can be as hot as the core of the sun. No nomal shinigami up to date can battle such an ability because they cannot get close to Yamamoto without risking getting potentially burned. We know his reiatsu is what made his bankai this hot so he must have a huge amount of it.
Dangai Ichigo and Aizen do not cling on or limit themselves to such logic because they became beings that surpasses that logic. http://www.mangareader.net/94-53161-...apter-407.html
Their reiatsu potency is above Yamamoto's by a huge amount.
Last edited by Kay3795; October 04, 2012 at 10:06 AM.
is anyone else confused about what went on with aizen? i know that juha bach said that he turned down his alliance, but is he free? or did he stay in prison? or did bach kill him?
Let’s state some overlooked facts/sequence of events in the current discussion about Yama-jii’s actions:
1- Yama-Jii did not go bankai against Juha’s imposter because he was too powerful to be fought with Shikai. Yama-jii wounded “Juha” with his Shikai. Yama went bankai because he wanted to make “Juha” taste enormous pain and defeat to his very core . This desire of ravishing Juha’s core itself was emphasized again and again with Zaka no Itachi East, West, South and North
2- Yama-jii was neither arrogant nor stubborn when he used his bankai. His thinking was very logical but unfortunately based on true but irrelevant factors:
Fact: Quincies could not steal Ichigo’s bankai
Fact: Other captains’ bankais were stolen
Fact: the only difference between Ichigo’s bankai and captain’s bankais is that Ichigo’s bankai showed a great deal of improvement in the course of the past arc.
Conclusion: The limits of Ichigo’s banakai are unknown and consequently cannot be stolen. Zanka No Itachi’s limits are unknown to the Quincies, therefore it cannot be stolen
The miscalculation was made by factoring in facts about bankais themselves instead of the person(s) trying to steal them. Had Yama-jii thought that the difference was in the person(s) trying to steal bankais, then maybe things would have been different. Also, note that Yama-jii arrived at that conclusion before leaving to battle. Unfortunately, Yama-jii did not know the truth until he fought the real Juha
What makes this arc very interesting to me is that Shinigamis are in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. If you don’t use banaki, then you will be owned badly (remember Renji and Shinsui?) and if you do use your banki then you will still be wiped out (Byakuya and everyone else who used his bankai). I am looking forward to seeing how things will work out
Not paricularly fond of the chapter. It seemed obvious that we would see some sort of reveal, either a new villain or the real Juha, this week. However, Yamamoto's sudden loss of his Bankai was kind of lame. We've seen it before. I get that there is likely no one capable of taking on Yama, but at least give him some time to destroy someone of relevance. If Yama goes down like this, it would be, in my opinion, pretty weak.
I'm also wondering what the deal is with Aizen, what exactly happened with him? What is his current status?