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Thread: Bleach 510 Discussion

  1. #406
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    As far as the kurosaki name I have always had the theory that that is actually masaki's family name. The scene where ryuken meets ishin and ishin was surprised at being called kurosaki was always weird to me and ishin implied ryuken didn't always called him that. I don't see why being a member of the royal family would explain the similar zampakuto, even if that requires an explanation other than them being related.

  2. #407
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    next chapter will show yamamoto's defeat or even his death. then,to apologize with us for this troll,kubo will show what's happening in HM!

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  4. #408
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Saint Markus's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Actually, we know one shinigami got beyond Yama- Dangai Ichigo. Isshin has similar potential I think, so he had to be super strong. Maybe he rescued Juha, that's why Juha sees Yama's bankai from 3rd person view, like he's not fighting.
    Isshin did use the same technique (Final Getsuga Tenshou) and that's why, he was able to teach Ichigo. It was merely a technique that allowed him to focus all his reiatsu into one strike and increase his superhuman strength that his Bankai is based on. That doesn't make him more powerful than Yama-ji.

    "Dangai" is the tunnel where the Spirit Train or whatever traveled through that Isshin aided Ichigo in becoming one with his zanpakuto. It's not a "mode" it's a place. I think what many of you prefer to say is "Jinzen" Ichigo or whatever. And "Jinzen" is merely the term for meditating with your Zanpakuto and learning everything you need to know about it as your powers increase. The Dangai was outside of time and that's why, Ichigo's Jinzen was complete in a mere hour versus in the real world, where it would've taken 2,000 years.

    And if, Isshin used Jinzen, then so did Unohana, Shunsui, Ukitake and obviously the General Commander. So, if Ichigo can do this, so can they as well.

    And the reason it was left in Ichigo's hands, is because he wasn't under Hypnosis and that gave him the advantage over Aizen to a certain extent. It's not to say that Ichigo will not eventually surpass the General Commander, but in his current state, no.

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  6. #409
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member S-H-I-G-U-R-E's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Markus View Post
    Isshin did use the same technique (Final Getsuga Tenshou) and that's why, he was able to teach Ichigo. It was merely a technique that allowed him to focus all his reiatsu into one strike and increase his superhuman strength that his Bankai is based on. That doesn't make him more powerful than Yama-ji.

    "Dangai" is the tunnel where the Spirit Train or whatever traveled through that Isshin aided Ichigo in becoming one with his zanpakuto. It's not a "mode" it's a place. I think what many of you prefer to say is "Jinzen" Ichigo or whatever. And "Jinzen" is merely the term for meditating with your Zanpakuto and learning everything you need to know about it as your powers increase. The Dangai was outside of time and that's why, Ichigo's Jinzen was complete in a mere hour versus in the real world, where it would've taken 2,000 years.

    And if, Isshin used Jinzen, then so did Unohana, Shunsui, Ukitake and obviously the General Commander. So, if Ichigo can do this, so can they as well.

    And the reason it was left in Ichigo's hands, is because he wasn't under Hypnosis and that gave him the advantage over Aizen to a certain extent. It's not to say that Ichigo will not eventually surpass the General Commander, but in his current state, no.
    Ichigo reached the peak of shinigami powers in a few months (which equals 1 hour in dangai time), not in 2000 years. He achieved bankai from scratch in 2 days... I mean, Ichigo's growth speed is completely off-scale. No other shinigami can even compare to him in that regard. He's a genius among geniuses.

  7. #410
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    @Saint Markus- I agree with that. Jinzen is a technique that Hitsugaya was even speaking of. Just because Ichigo fused with his zanpakuto doesn't mean it's beyond anyone else. What woud be the point in fusing with it anyway? The shinigami have other duties besides being at war 24/7. Walking around wearing your bankai is useless until you need to kill someone like Aizen. Besides, the higher class captains have enough experience and skill they don't need to go bankai to take on strong opponents. Shunsui, Ukitake, Shinji, Urahara- all used a shikai in their fights. The younger generation are dependent on bankai because their skills aren't so developed. I think Byakuya could use shikai to great effect, but obviously bankai gets the job done faster.

    On the thought of the RG, no one knows whether Ukitake Unohana Shunsui Yoruichi etc. could have been promoted there. Ginrei Kuchiki may be there, no one knows. They're promoted captains, that's all we know so far. Maybe in the kings realm they receive additional power granted by the Soul King? There's no reason to assume anything yet, we'll just have to see.

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  9. #411
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Saint Markus's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by S-H-I-G-U-R-E View Post
    Ichigo reached the peak of shinigami powers in a few months (which equals 1 hour in dangai time), not in 2000 years. He achieved bankai from scratch in 2 days... I mean, Ichigo's growth speed is completely off-scale. No other shinigami can even compare to him in that regard. He's a genius among geniuses.

    you can correct me all you want about the time thing, but Kubo is the one that wrote it that way, not me. So, your honestly going to disagree with the writer of the Manga...?. And if, Ichigo was a "genius among genisues" as you put it (laughing at that one) he wouldn't be stuck in jail right now. right...?.

  10. #412
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sky Render's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    As far as the kurosaki name I have always had the theory that that is actually masaki's family name. The scene where ryuken meets ishin and ishin was surprised at being called kurosaki was always weird to me and ishin implied ryuken didn't always called him that. I don't see why being a member of the royal family would explain the similar zampakuto, even if that requires an explanation other than them being related.
    Isshin Shiba. That is all.

  11. #413
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member S-H-I-G-U-R-E's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Markus View Post
    you can correct me all you want about the time thing, but Kubo is the one that wrote it that way, not me. So, your honestly going to disagree with the writer of the Manga...?. And if, Ichigo was a "genius among genisues" as you put it (laughing at that one) he wouldn't be stuck in jail right now. right...?.
    I correct you because you ARE wrong. Ichigo completed his training in 1 hour = 2000 hours = 83 days = almost 3 months, like I said. Not in in 2000 years, like you, sir, said. Want "Kubo proof"? Here it is:





    And yes, Ichigo is a genius among geniuses when it comes to shinigami stuff. No one else was ever as quick as him to get that powerful... nobody ever came even remotely closed to his growth speed. That's what being a genius is.

    Now you can relax.

  12. #414
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Markus View Post
    you can correct me all you want about the time thing, but Kubo is the one that wrote it that way, not me. So, your honestly going to disagree with the writer of the Manga...?
    Ichigo has done in only two years what a shinigami can't do in 2000 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Markus View Post
    And if, Ichigo was a "genius among genisues" as you put it (laughing at that one)
    In only 14 days he went from an inexperienced rookie to beating one of the strongest captains. In that time he also achieved bankai and mastered some of the fundamental disciplines of a shinigami.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Markus View Post
    he wouldn't be stuck in jail right now. right...?.
    If I shoot a dog and it dies, then I shoot you and you die, then that makes you as unintelligent as a dog. Right...?

  13. #415
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    As far as the kurosaki name I have always had the theory that that is actually masaki's family name. The scene where ryuken meets ishin and ishin was surprised at being called kurosaki was always weird to me and ishin implied ryuken didn't always called him that. I don't see why being a member of the royal family would explain the similar zampakuto, even if that requires an explanation other than them being related.
    I don't know why but I always assumed this was the case. Was it not actually said in the manga? Dunno where I got that idea from... But it would make sense, if Isshin didn't want to be found by whatever group he was a member of, be it the Royal Guard or whoever else.

  14. #416
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Ichigo has done in only two years what a shinigami can't do in 2000 years.
    IF you're talking about fusing with his zanpakuto, you're wrong. Unless you believe Isshin is over 2000 years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    In only 14 days he went from an inexperienced rookie to beating one of the strongest captains. In that time he also achieved bankai and mastered some of the fundamental disciplines of a shinigami.
    He didn't beat Kenpachi or Byakuya. It was a draw in both instances. Achieving bankai? He had help from Urahara with that. Disciplines of a shinigami is a given, look at his dad.

  15. #417
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    IF you're talking about fusing with his zanpakuto, you're wrong. Unless you believe Isshin is over 2000 years old.


    He didn't beat Kenpachi or Byakuya. It was a draw in both instances. Achieving bankai? He had help from Urahara with that. Disciplines of a shinigami is a given, look at his dad.
    Half agreed, senior captains are easily over two thousand years old, Isshin "looks" about the same age as senior captains, so he could be over 2000 years old.

    But totally agreed that Ichigo took a lot of short cuts in achieving his power, short cuts which normal shinigami could never have accessed to (like the doll for Bankai). However, we have to consider that Ichigo achieved Bankai using the doll in 2 days, while a genius like Urahara, using the same method did it in 3 days. So I won't call Ichigo a genius among geniuses, but a lucky genius.

  16. #418
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member daman246's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    He didn't beat Kenpachi or Byakuya. It was a draw in both instances. Achieving bankai? He had help from Urahara with that. Disciplines of a shinigami is a given, look at his dad.
    Dude everyone needs help to achieve something, Ichigo got help from his Dad and Urahara well because he was a kid and didnt even know the fundementals of being ashinigami, he was a brand new shinigami.

    if you never had the help of your parents would you still be alive? the answer is no. So what if ichigo had help to achive bankai, no one helped him defeat Zangetsu and Learned Getsuga now did they.
    Everything Ichigo learned and Achived has been all done by himself in his Inner world, no one has help him defeat or actually interfere with him defeating or learning anything From Zangetsu.
    Last edited by daman246; October 09, 2012 at 03:28 AM.

  17. #419
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by daman246 View Post
    Dude everyone needs help to achieve something, Ichigo got help from his Dad and Urahara well because he was a kid and didnt even know the fundementals of being ashinigami, he was a brand new shinigami.

    if you never had the help of your parents would you still be alive? the answer is no. So what if ichigo had help to achive bankai, no one helped him defeat Zangetsu and Learned Getsuga now did they.
    Everything Ichigo learned and Achived has been all done by himself in his Inner world, no one has help him defeat or actually interfere with him defeating or learning anything From Zangetsu.
    Yes, that is true that Ichigo always achieved his power by battling in the inner world, he deserve his power because he always had that potential. BUT, the reason I called him lucky is that he received a lot of supports from others, he almost never had to figure out how to get stronger, he just had to defeat whatever is inside him every time. You see that in every stages of Ichigo's development, another character gave him the access to those trials to gain new power. had they not given him those accesses, he'd STILL be able to achieve those powers but after a very long time since he need to figure out what he need to do by himself.

    Example:

    -Ichigo needed to communicated and materialize his zanpaktou spirit to achieve shikai and Bankai (short cutted by the help of urahara, Ichigo never properly communicated with Zangetsu unless he is forced to)

    -Ichigo needed to defeat his inner hollow to gain access to vizard powers (helped by Shinji to access into his inner world, while the vizards try to contain the destruction of his physical body, without their help, he would have taken a lot of time to figure out what to do)

    -> not trying to criticize Ichigo in any way, just saying that he's lucky to have the perfect conditions to achieve his power. (kind of like a footballer trained in Arsenal or Barcelona's facilities)

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  19. #420
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by daman246 View Post
    Dude everyone needs help to achieve something, Ichigo got help from his Dad and Urahara well because he was a kid and didnt even know the fundementals of being ashinigami, he was a brand new shinigami.

    if you never had the help of your parents would you still be alive? the answer is no. So what if ichigo had help to achive bankai, no one helped him defeat Zangetsu and Learned Getsuga now did they.
    Everything Ichigo learned and Achived has been all done by himself in his Inner world, no one has help him defeat or actually interfere with him defeating or learning anything From Zangetsu.
    who learned their Bankai in their outer world? i think everyone had to go through similar things in inner world. so it is not a big difference if he defeated Zangetsu alone. however, how he got to fight Zangetsu is the important thing.

    correct me if i am wrong, didn't Renji learned Bankai in similar amount of time?
    Naruto Forever


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