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Translations: Bleach 592 by BadKarma , Gintama 506 (2)

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Thread: Bleach 510 Discussion

  1. #421
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Something's amiss about Aizen. The guy's spent over a year in an underground prison with no hope of acheiving his goals to overthrow the Soul King, and yet he's just turned down a perfect opportunity to escape (and being immortal, he should be able to easily defeat the VR once they've released him without the worry of being killed in the process)...
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  2. #422
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    correct me if i am wrong, didn't Renji learned Bankai in similar amount of time?
    They achieved Bankai at roughly the same time, but Renji has already able to materialize his zanpaktou (indicating that he had trained for a while), it is just a coincidence that his final stage of achieving Bankai is at the same time that Ichigo gain his.

  3. #423
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    who learned their Bankai in their outer world? i think everyone had to go through similar things in inner world. so it is not a big difference if he defeated Zangetsu alone. however, how he got to fight Zangetsu is the important thing.

    correct me if i am wrong, didn't Renji learned Bankai in similar amount of time?
    I don't think the importance is how long it takes to learn bankai once the fight with the inner spirit is initiated; the thing that takes time is learning how to get the inner spirit to materialize so that it can be fought. Renji had obviously already learnt to do this when Zambimaru's spirit was seen talking to him whilst he was locked up in the prison.
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  4. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  5. #424
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    I don't think the importance is how long it takes to learn bankai once the fight with the inner spirit is initiated; the thing that takes time is learning how to get the inner spirit to materialize so that it can be fought. Renji had obviously already learnt to do this when Zambimaru's spirit was seen talking to him whilst he was locked up in the prison.
    Exactly my point, but Renji was not in a prison, he was in a recovery room to heal from the fight with Ichigo

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  7. #425
    The Original 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    If you haven't, please visit Community Awards 2012. Your contribution is valuable to us.

    Last edited by thornofcarrion; October 09, 2012 at 06:44 AM.

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  9. #426
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    They achieved Bankai at roughly the same time, but Renji has already able to materialize his zanpaktou (indicating that he had trained for a while), it is just a coincidence that his final stage of achieving Bankai is at the same time that Ichigo gain his.
    thanks for the info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    I don't think the importance is how long it takes to learn bankai once the fight with the inner spirit is initiated; the thing that takes time is learning how to get the inner spirit to materialize so that it can be fought. Renji had obviously already learnt to do this when Zambimaru's spirit was seen talking to him whilst he was locked up in the prison.
    basically the same thing i was trying to say. many were referring to Bankai achieving in such short time as a proof for Ichigo being genius. but the truth is, Ichigo got shortcut on materializing Zangetsu. and as you said, "the thing that takes time is learning how to get the inner spirit to materialize".

    for example, we have seen Yumichika struggling to materialize his Bankai, that's why he didn't get Bankai. but if could get forced materialize, then he might achieve his Bankai in short amount of time as well.
    Naruto Forever


  10. #427
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Ichigo had the potential within him to achieve bankai, but if Yoruichi had not intervened, he would have had to take the time to train and force his zanpakutou to manifest, just like anyone else. Ichigo has a lot of available power and stellar potential, but he would not have achieved bankai or even lived through Byakuya's initial attack when they met for the first time if others (Urahara, Yoruichi, etc...) hadn't interceded. I think Kubo makes a point of using Ichigo to show us that power and potential are great things, but that everyone, even prodigies like Ichigo need to be humble and accept the help of others in their reach for greatness. It isn't a bad thing to need to rely on friends and more knowledgable people from time to time. The connections between Ichigo and his friends...even his enemies (as Byakuya once was) are all part of what is making him grow so quickly. There are many real life prodigies who never reach their full potential because they lack the heart, the humility and the personal connections to make it happen.

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  12. #428
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    Something's amiss about Aizen. The guy's spent over a year in an underground prison with no hope of acheiving his goals to overthrow the Soul King, and yet he's just turned down a perfect opportunity to escape (and being immortal, he should be able to easily defeat the VR once they've released him without the worry of being killed in the process)...
    Well, Aizen doesn't seem the type of guy who'd take orders, but rather give them... We've seen he's quite arrogant, and even went to overthrow the Reio (that is implied by what Aizen said to Urahara about the Reio back then)

  13. #429
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Well, Aizen doesn't seem the type of guy who'd take orders, but rather give them... We've seen he's quite arrogant, and even went to overthrow the Reio (that is implied by what Aizen said to Urahara about the Reio back then)
    Do we know when Aizen was asked? Juha could have asked him a long time ago when Aizen was in the middle of his own plan
    Meh

  14. #430
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Well, Aizen doesn't seem the type of guy who'd take orders, but rather give them... We've seen he's quite arrogant, and even went to overthrow the Reio (that is implied by what Aizen said to Urahara about the Reio back then)
    I agree, but having said that, he was happy to take orders from Yamamoto, Shinji, and whoever else over the 100+ years he spent posing as a loyal member of the Gotei 13. Maybe he just doesn't feel capable of one-upping Bach like he did Soul Society, though that certainly doesn't sound like him. Maybe Ichigo was right about the reason Aizen lost his powers in the end, he's just given up (again, that doesn't sound like Aizen. Even if he has a subconscious desire to lose the burden of being so strong, I can imagine he tells himself otherwise). Maybe he's got his own plans brewing and simply isn't interested in what Bach had to offer.

    I'd have loved to see the conversation between the two.

  15. #431
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    You know, Kubo needs to think things through a little more. I just had this thought. If Royd could copy another's spirit and memories, then why not have him copy Yamamoto's so that he would know the location of the king's key? Either he's not aiming to go after the king, or Kubo just fell into a nasty plot hole...just sayin' And if the twins were smart, the other would have copied Juha's powers, *****-slapped him and the two would have gone to kill the king themselves.

  16. #432
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sky Render's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    You know, Kubo needs to think things through a little more. I just had this thought. If Royd could copy another's spirit and memories, then why not have him copy Yamamoto's so that he would know the location of the king's key? Either he's not aiming to go after the king, or Kubo just fell into a nasty plot hole...just sayin' And if the twins were smart, the other would have copied Juha's powers, *****-slapped him and the two would have gone to kill the king themselves.
    That's pretty much like saying "if Kurotsuchi can counter any ability, why can't he counter the medallions?"

    Because he can't.

    Royd could mimic Yhwach because Yhwach probably let him. Because he was his boss and as such he let himself be copied. It's not like he can show Royd a pic of Yama and be done with it. He probably needs to be near him, touch him or spend some time with the real deal.

    And it's been stated several times through the manga that base reiryoku and reiatsu > special abilities. Royd and Loyd simply can't bring themselves to Yama and Yhwach's levels. Even Kenpachi managed to overcome his exact copy via sheer reiatsu, making the ability look like a complete joke.

    Royd was an Sternenritter, therefore captain level "or higher", therefore capable of at least not dying immediately against Yamamoto's flames. Look at it this way: mustache Sternenritter stands up against Kyoraku, who stood up against Yamamoto. We can conclude then that the average Sternenritter can at least endure a little against the CC even if he is to be obviously defeated in the end. Nodt and the others were instapwned because they probably switched into Blut Arterie and forgot about defending.

    Royd was a decoy whose purpose ws only to stall Yamamoto and bring out his true power. He was supposed to die. That's it. It's not very epic nor satisfying, but it's far from being a plot hole.

  17. #433
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    What I rather see as a plot hole (or troll) is the power measures between Royd and Loyd: Royd beat Kenpachi without significant effort (at least I didn't see it on him), while it was indirectly stated that he can't mimic power. Loyd, on the other hand, was supposed to be the one able to mimic power and therefore should be stronger than Royd, after mimicking Kenpachi, but got beaten by him rather easily.
    This needs to be explained better (if what Kirge said about Bach being able to adjust the strength of their Blut somehow, for example). But if one SR was strong enough to beat Kenpachi, why couldn't it be so with the rest?
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  18. #434
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    Do we know when Aizen was asked? Juha could have asked him a long time ago when Aizen was in the middle of his own plan
    what plan are you talking about? surely Juha met Aizen in the underground prison.
    Naruto Forever


  19. #435
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Regret's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    What I rather see as a plot hole (or troll) is the power measures between Royd and Loyd: Royd beat Kenpachi without significant effort (at least I didn't see it on him), while it was indirectly stated that he can't mimic power. Loyd, on the other hand, was supposed to be the one able to mimic power and therefore should be stronger than Royd, after mimicking Kenpachi, but got beaten by him rather easily.
    This needs to be explained better (if what Kirge said about Bach being able to adjust the strength of their Blut somehow, for example). But if one SR was strong enough to beat Kenpachi, why couldn't it be so with the rest?
    Considering that it was Royd's job to serve as a perfect doppelganger for Bach it wouldn't be all that surprising that his training was a little more special than the others. In fact using Bach's memories/skills all he really would need was a strong blut to be able to do what he did. Specializing in exceptional defense is nothing new as we saw it with Nnoitra.

    Loyd's problem was that he could never be better than his opponent who is more experienced with their own style. In the end Royd was one of the most important stern ritter so it isn't all surprising that he was built up to be better than most of the rest. Bach really doesn't seem to care how well most of his soldiers fight just as long as they give it their all. So far it seems that their strength greatly varies from one person to another.
    Last edited by Regret; October 09, 2012 at 11:39 AM.

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