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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)

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Thread: Bleach 510 Discussion

  1. #316
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Silhouette's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    is anyone else confused about what went on with aizen? i know that juha bach said that he turned down his alliance, but is he free? or did he stay in prison? or did bach kill him?
    In mangastream translation, Juha stated that "Aizen has an eternity to think about it" So it's most likely that Juha left Aizen bound in his eternal prison to think about it.
    CLICK SIGNATURE ABOVE FOR BLEACH & OP COLOURED PAGES

  2. #317
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Stzake's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    I'm curious about this, too. Bach destroyed the 1st division baracks, so no one is guarding the prison any more. But he could either have set Aizen free or left him to rot. His line about Aizen "having an eternity" to think about his decision can be taken two ways - Either Bach's willing to let him reconsider, or he's going to keep him locked up with no second chances. Personally I don't think he'd let someone he's labelled a Special Potential run around freely, so I'm guessing he's left Aizen bound up in the prison. Either way, it seems he's left him alive.
    But why JB destroyed the 1st division barracks? There is no point of it.

    JB said "Now, he has an eternity to think about that decision." You can say it too when you killed someone. I think JB killed Aizen or at least tried to do that.

    I have doubts about Aizen's immortality. We all thought Aizen is immortal thanks to the Hougyoku right? But look at this page,
    http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/...chapter/421/17
    "Basically, the Hougyoku no longer sees you as its master." And I think the only ones know that in Shinigami side Urahara and Ichigo.

    But and its a big "but",
    http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/...chapter/422/15

    I'm realy confused.
    '

  3. #318
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    DAFUQ?? this chapter has no polls? cmon stick some poll
    THE UCHIHA LOGIC:
    "brother follows hiw on path? destroy konoha " uchiha sasuke
    "the village wants you not to interfere with politics? coup-d'etat" uchiha fugaku
    "coup-d'etat on the way? obliterate entire clan" uchiha itachi
    "clan wants to make peace? destroy everyone everywhere" uchiha madara
    "10 years old crush dead?infinite tsukyumi" uchiha obito



  4. #319
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    I also think the more likely answer is that Aizen's still in the prison, because Bach wouldn't want to risk Aizen waiting for him to kill Yama and then killing Bach and proceeding with his original plan.
    Now that I think about it, Aizen at this point shouldn't have any problems with wishing for the Royal key and getting it from Hougyoku, since he's been made immortal and crazy strong.
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  5. #320
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Silhouette View Post
    Let’s state some overlooked facts/sequence of events in the current discussion about Yama-jii’s actions:

    1- Yama-Jii did not go bankai against Juha’s imposter because he was too powerful to be fought with Shikai. Yama-jii wounded “Juha” with his Shikai. Yama went bankai because he wanted to make “Juha” taste enormous pain and defeat to his very core . This desire of ravishing Juha’s core itself was emphasized again and again with Zaka no Itachi East, West, South and North

    2- Yama-jii was neither arrogant nor stubborn when he used his bankai. His thinking was very logical but unfortunately based on true but irrelevant factors:
    Fact: Quincies could not steal Ichigo’s bankai
    Fact: Other captains’ bankais were stolen
    Fact: the only difference between Ichigo’s bankai and captain’s bankais is that Ichigo’s bankai showed a great deal of improvement in the course of the past arc.

    Conclusion: The limits of Ichigo’s banakai are unknown and consequently cannot be stolen. Zanka No Itachi’s limits are unknown to the Quincies, therefore it cannot be stolen
    The miscalculation was made by factoring in facts about bankais themselves instead of the person(s) trying to steal them. Had Yama-jii thought that the difference was in the person(s) trying to steal bankais, then maybe things would have been different. Also, note that Yama-jii arrived at that conclusion before leaving to battle. Unfortunately, Yama-jii did not know the truth until he fought the real Juha

    What makes this arc very interesting to me is that Shinigamis are in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. If you don’t use banaki, then you will be owned badly (remember Renji and Shinsui?) and if you do use your banki then you will still be wiped out (Byakuya and everyone else who used his bankai). I am looking forward to seeing how things will work out
    I agree with what you are said to some extent but not 100%.

    I agree with number 2 to some extent. Yamamoto gathered that the reason they weren't(or rather might not be) able to steal his bankai is because they must witness and know it's full power. But even at that you couldn't help but think he was too hasty, too conclusive and too judgemental with his thought.

    I question number 1. The wound Yamamoto gave Juha bach wasn't a big deal at all for bleach stardards and taking into account that Yamamoto really wanted to destroy every essence of Bach body, soul and etc we can atleast gather that Yamamoto didn't hold back on that slash at all.

    Another reason I question 1 is because even when Yamamoto's bankai was activated, Fake Buch was still capable of penetrating the defence Yamamoto's bankai had, making Yamamoto to block the arrow with his hand. Fake Buch also was able to stop Yamamoto's bankai charge in it's tracks with his defence http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/508/14 http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/508/15 If Yamamoto thought he could have simply charged through it, wouldn't he have done that instead of summoning his necromancers? Even Bach fought against the necromancers and crushed some of their skulls http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/509/7 http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/509/13 .

    Yamamoto himself said http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/507/15 even his blut vene couldn't defend against his bankai's east attack.

    So simply using Shikai doesn't appear to be enough but using bankai is overkill.

    ---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stzake View Post
    But why JB destroyed the 1st division barracks? There is no point of it.

    JB said "Now, he has an eternity to think about that decision." You can say it too when you killed someone. I think JB killed Aizen or at least tried to do that.

    I have doubts about Aizen's immortality. We all thought Aizen is immortal thanks to the Hougyoku right? But look at this page,
    http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/...chapter/421/17
    "Basically, the Hougyoku no longer sees you as its master." And I think the only ones know that in Shinigami side Urahara and Ichigo.

    But and its a big "but",
    http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/...chapter/422/15

    I'm realy confused.
    Hogyoku rejected Aizen but he was still... http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/.../chapter/423/4
    Last edited by Kay3795; October 04, 2012 at 09:52 AM.

  6. #321
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    To be honest I am of the opinion that if aizen does make a return he will do so as a form of ally or indifferent bystander rather than an enemy per say. Ichigo's comments along with the implication that aizen wished for things to turn out that way makes me think that. Lets suppose ichigo was to some extent correct. What does aizen not wanting the power he had implies? The power he had acquired was for the sake of his ambition, he wanted to become more so as to usurp the king and become the king. So if he gave up on his power then wouldn't that also have the implication that he gave up on his ambition? So what would aizen be left with without his ambition? An existential crisis, remorse for killing and betraying those who cared for him (I get the feeling that his idea behind become something godly like the king kinda made it feel it wouldn't be a huge deal to toy around with people's lives) or perhaps simply an extreme nihilism where he cares for no one. Still, if he did end up wishing to be a normal shinigami he is unlikely to return as an immortal being.

  7. #322
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    To be honest I am of the opinion that if aizen does make a return he will do so as a form of ally or indifferent bystander rather than an enemy per say. Ichigo's comments along with the implication that aizen wished for things to turn out that way makes me think that. Lets suppose ichigo was to some extent correct. What does aizen not wanting the power he had implies? The power he had acquired was for the sake of his ambition, he wanted to become more so as to usurp the king and become the king. So if he gave up on his power then wouldn't that also have the implication that he gave up on his ambition? So what would aizen be left with without his ambition? An existential crisis, remorse for killing and betraying those who cared for him (I get the feeling that his idea behind become something godly like the king kinda made it feel it wouldn't be a huge deal to toy around with people's lives) or perhaps simply an extreme nihilism where he cares for no one. Still, if he did end up wishing to be a normal shinigami he is unlikely to return as an immortal being.
    see, i would hate to see Aizen become a good guy. especially since, his first introduction to the series he was portraying a good guy and did it so well.

    To me, if Kubo does this, it would become redundant.

    Juha Bach seems to be the kind of villain that kills without remorse and if he did kill Aizen, it wouldn't surprise me. After all, if this guy is powerful enough to evade defeat from the General Commander 1,000 years ago and to the present time today, then he must be quite the adversary. I really would like to know more about Juha's history with Yama-ji in the next few chapters.

  8. #323
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    If Aizen was indeed killable, don't you think SS would have executed him for his crimes?
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

  9. #324
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    About the Vandenreich having non bow and arrow weapons. The VR have apparently been preparing for this for a thousand years. So that's lots of time to come up with new techniques. But this leads me to an interesting thought. We know very little about the Quincy. And most of our previous information came from the Ishida's. So it may be that the Quincy had a schism at some point. Those that wanted to peacefully work with the Shingami, and the faction that wanted to wipe them out. The faction that the Ishida's came from focused exclusivly on bows, and the other faction, the Vandenriech, branched out. And were willing to use techniques the Ishida's wouldn't. Maybe rather than being on the VR's side Ishida will come in in a big damn heroes moment, and declare that he is "The Last True Quincy!"

    Wonder if Mayuri's booby trappin his Bankai would still work if it's stolen? Be kinda funny to see someone steal it and then it explodes. Maybe poisons them for good measure.

    One other interesting thing I noteced. The Twins seem to have been born in a modern hospital room. I wonder if this means the VR are recruting from the living world. I've also been interested in what the connection between Quincy powers and Fullbring is.

    What does it mean? It means your about to get your butt kicked!

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  11. #325
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Stzake's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Hogyoku rejected Aizen but he was still... http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/.../chapter/423/4
    I know Central 46 said to Aizen "Immortal". 'Couse of it i said, " And I think the only ones know that in Shinigami side Urahara and Ichigo."
    In Bleach, when a character say something that doesn't mean it's true. We must allready know that.

    If Aizen fight Shinigami side againts JB that doesn't mean he turned up a "Good Guy". The Aizen we all know want everything for himselfs. He wanted the Throne and there is a rival for him now. He can be ally with SS until JB destroyed, and try to take the Throne after that.

    But if Ichigo is right, Aizen don't care about anything anymore. He gained what he wanted. But this brings a question: What is the Kubo's purpose for leaving Aizen alive?
    Last edited by Stzake; October 04, 2012 at 11:22 AM.
    '

  12. #326
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Stzake View Post

    But if Ichigo is right, Aizen don't care about anything anymore. He gained what he wanted. But this brings a question: What is the Kubo's purpose for leaving Aizen alive?
    it is because aizen had the power to destroy soukyoku so that ichigo will advance his dangai training to level volstanding+ yamamoto's bankai juha bach.

    kidding aside, can juha use his offensive blut while he is using zanka no tachi west? the technique burns the user too. can juha switch to use other directions without using west? zanka no tachi south also looks quite useless. it can only revive the ones yamamoto killed with ryuujin jakka. juha should use zanka no tachi to kill some royal guards so that the sword can have a psychological effect

    ---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/15

    why yamamoto gave time to juha bach to grab his light sword? forming of the sword should took at least one second. in that one second yama could push bach away from his sword, then destroy it.

  13. #327
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Aizen IS immortal, and that's why Bach had no choice but to leave him where he found him. Of course Aizen's role in this whole thing is yet to be revealed, but I have mixed feelings about him getting involved again. I would hate if Kubo ruined one of the best viillains ever created!

  14. #328
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Thinking about the chapter, juha really is a beast. I mean, he uses his sword to make a huge bow which he uses to fire an arrow which juha uses as a sword. With said bowsword he gets straight to yamamoto and wounds him. Thinking about it, what is the deal with something as unnecessary? Is the holy arrow sword more powerful than the sword? Can juha use his sword to fire a barrage of those? Why does juha's sword look like zangetsu's current form?

  15. #329
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think agree with the shinigami being outsmarted. The sole issue the shinigami have with the war is the bankai stealing thing. Bankai represents to a shinigami an increase of 10 times their fighting capacity and perhaps even more importantly it is an intrinsic part of their very soul. It is not something that was ever an issue before, it was inconceivable. Its not like the quincy somehow outmaneuvered the shinigami or the shinigami used some sort of inefective strategy, the quincy simply deviced an absurd way to outright negate 90% of the power of the only asset worth something in SS. Even aizen could not come up with a way to neutralize bankai to that degree. Even with his sheer intellect and wishing orb he had to modify an arrancar who apparently had the ability to seal or negate abilities to begin with to deal with yamamoto's zampakuto.
    Umm, that's pretty much the definition of outmaneuver. They stayed hidden, researched a way to render their opponent's primary source of power useless then struck. Even if it never occurred to Yama that people who fight by stealing reishi from the environment could steal their bankais, Ishida, a VC level quincy used leitzt stil to acquire enough power to pulverize a captain and his bankai instantly. The only reason why mayuri is still around is because Ishida isn't a cold blooded killer. Could he seriously expect other quincy to show mercy?Yama had advanced warning and ignored it. It's possible that no tactic could save him, but he didn't even try. That's just breathtaking arrogance and incompetence.

  16. #330
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 510 Discussion / 511 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Umm, that's pretty much the definition of outmaneuver. They stayed hidden, researched a way to render their opponent's primary source of power useless then struck. Even if it never occurred to Yama that people who fight by stealing reishi from the environment could steal their bankais, Ishida, a VC level quincy used leitzt stil to acquire enough power to pulverize a captain and his bankai instantly. The only reason why mayuri is still around is because Ishida isn't a cold blooded killer. Could he seriously expect other quincy to show mercy?Yama had advanced warning and ignored it. It's possible that no tactic could save him, but he didn't even try. That's just breathtaking arrogance and incompetence.
    What does stealing reishi have to do at all with stealing bankai? Your point is absurd, you make it sound as if stealing bankai was at any form a conceivable and more importantly a logically foreseeable risk at any point and among the thousands of shinigami it was exclusively yamamoto's fault that this was not dealt with. Even if it was a conceivable risk in some form (which it isn't) solving that issue would not fall with yamamoto in any form but rather the science department(that leaves either mayuri or urahara). Yamamoto is the military leader not the scientific research head or anything.

    So what with the quincy final form? There have been 2 quincy wars so far and as far as we know the final form was already available to the quincy back then. And the shinigami beat it. Even now the supposedly improved volstandig got beaten by ichigo's bankai...

    So tell us, what was yamamoto supposed to do with the warning mayuri gave him that would have changed the entire situation? As far as we know what ishida's appearance told mayuri was "Holy shit there are still quincy around". So mayuri walks to yamamoto and tells him there might be a quincy threat somewhere... For one thing that is not something anyone could have done anything with. I guess yamamoto could have looked for the quincy however how effective could that have been? The shinigami number in the mere thousands and the quincy, an equally small organization, could have reasonably been hiding either on the real worth, SS or HM. The odds of finding the quincy in such an scenario without so much as a clue of where to look for would have been abysmal unless yamamoto had the means to do something and chose not to out of sheer laziness. More so, wasn't that conversation about the mayuri having to correct the balance of souls and the potential issues there could be because of quincy? I doubt mayuri somehow addressed the possibility of bankai being stolen. Even then, yamamoto necessarily was the one who knew about the possibility of bach being a threat at some point. Of course after bach escaped 1000 years ago the only thing that could have been done was for the shinigami to randomly look for him across 3 different dimensions.

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