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View Poll Results: Who will win?

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  • Konjiki Koharu

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Thread: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa



    Singles 2Konjiki KoharuAkutagwa Jirou
    SchoolShitenhouji 3rd YearHyoutei Gakuen 3rd Year
    Height170 cm160 cm
    Weight60 kg49 kg
    Dominant HandRightRight
    PlaystyleDefensive Counter PuncherServe and Volley
    TechniquesData TennisMagic Volley

    Serve order: Akutagawa -> Konjiki


    This round ends on Sunday, September 30th 8 PM GMT.


    Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

  2. #2
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Can we even tier Konjiki yet?
    Don't know how we can judge him.
    He seemed able to return 7th Hadoukyuu with ease til he got distracted by Momoshiro and hit in the face with it.
    He handled Momoshiro, but used silly antics. I'll need to re-watch the ep. for this.

    Woah... I can't believe Jirou is so small!!! 160cm!!??
    Last edited by Airgrimes; September 27, 2012 at 04:42 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Woah... I can't believe Jirou is so small!!! 160cm!!??
    I told you that in his first match! He was even in the midget team in "Form the Strongest Team" (along with Dan Taichi, Ryoma and Gakuto).
    He seems taller in SPOT though...

    Back to topic... It's a hard call. I can't believe Kaoz made Konjiki play singles lol, he seems to depend a lot on Hitouji.

    I'm gonna wait for now, but I'm probably voting for Jirou.

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  5. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Jiroh is an established singles player, whereas Konjiki is a doubles player. I don't see how Konjiki would do anything special without his partner, so... Jiroh wins this lol.

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Jiroh is an established singles player, whereas Konjiki is a doubles player. I don't see how Konjiki would do anything special without his partner, so... Jiroh wins this lol.
    Marui is also a doubles player. Jirou > Marui?

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Marui is also a doubles player. Jirou > Marui?
    Marui has been stated as a good singles player (he even played some singles matches).

    Konjiki on the other hand...

  9. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Mmm, I think Konjiki's Data might save him from Magic Volley

    He returned both Tornado Snake and Jack Knife. On the other hand, I don't see Jirou doing that, and I think he would have returned Gin's 7th Hadoukyuu if Momo didn't distract him lol.

  10. #8
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    Marui has been stated as a good singles player (he even played some singles matches).

    Konjiki on the other hand...
    Marui offscreened noobs in the databooks. What's your point? Oishi beat noobs in the Seigaku ranking tournament, but no one's going to say he's any good at singles.

    Admittedly, Marui is a better player than Oishi, but the argument still holds. A doubles player is not going to suddenly be great at singles, but just because they're a doubles player doesn't mean that they're going to be terrible at singles and lose to noobs? Jirou's only beat Yuuta, which isn't a great accomplishment. Where's this idea that Jirou's great coming from all of a sudden?

  11. #9
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Admittedly, Marui is a better player than Oishi, but the argument still holds. A doubles player is not going to suddenly be great at singles, but just because they're a doubles player doesn't mean that they're going to be terrible at singles and lose to noobs? Jirou's only beat Yuuta, which isn't a great accomplishment. Where's this idea that Jirou's great coming from all of a sudden?
    Well said man.
    Jirou isn't great at all lol.
    We know Marui is a good Singles player however since its said he easily finished off Akutagawa. He is simply a great version of Jirou.

    Konjiki however effortlessly returns Tornado Snake. Which I don't think is that great a technique since we only ever saw it take points off of Mukahi and Hiyoshi but here: http://www.mangareader.net/422-27220...apter-323.html

    Here is again handling one of the snakes whilst laughing:
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27221...apter-324.html

    Handling the Dunk Smash whilst laughing: http://www.mangareader.net/422-27221...apter-324.html

    Konjiki is possibly Lower Mid Tier.
    He's pretty solid. Just an not-serious kinda guy.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; September 28, 2012 at 12:58 PM. Reason: unnecessary character.

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post

    Here is again handling one of the snakes whilst laughing

    Handling the Dunk Smash whilst laughing


    Couldn't resist.

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    The same flaws of Data Tennis aplies to Konjiki who basically plays a variant of Data Tennis except he doesn't need a notepad. Just because you know something doesn't mean you can do it. In the match against Gin, it's pretty clear that he lacks the strength of return a Hado X so just because he knows the ball is traveling Y MPH with a force of Z does him no good unless he has techniques that can cancel out power. He got his racket knocked off by people with less strength than Gin, so it's pretty safe to assume Hado X line will easily knock his racket off too.

    Now Akutagawa doesn't have any real intimidating moves. Konjiki might be able to calculate the angle the Magic Volley hits the ball but he'd also need to have a corresponding amount of speed just to catch up to the ball. So far as NPOT goes both characters are completely unknowns due to lack of airtime, but since Akutagawa is in court 5 for some unfathomable reason, you've to assume he should win just by the fact that he happens to be grouped with a bunch of supernatural middle schoolers. It's pretty clear every guy on court 5 besides him would utterly destroy Konjiki. Not saying Akutagawa is on the tier as the rest of the court 5 members, but since he's part of the court 5 we'll have to assume he isn't there as a joke so even if he's the weakest guy in court 5, due to the chasm between rest of court 5 versus Konjiki, you'd have to assume Akutagawa must be better.

  14. #12
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    Post Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post


    Couldn't resist.
    Lol, I'm English. It's how we talk.
    Man that's a really American joke lol.
    There are so many problems we have with how Americans talk their ''English'' lol.

    @Phantron
    That reasoning made no sense.
    So because Jirou is Court 5, Jirou > Sanada, Niou, Inui, Kintaro, Kawamura, Momoshiro?

    I think you're trolling. All this time, I fell for it. That must be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The same flaws of Data Tennis aplies to Konjiki who basically plays a variant of Data Tennis except he doesn't need a notepad. Just because you know something doesn't mean you can do it. In the match against Gin, it's pretty clear that he lacks the strength of return a Hado X so just because he knows the ball is traveling Y MPH with a force of Z does him no good unless he has techniques that can cancel out power. He got his racket knocked off by people with less strength than Gin, so it's pretty safe to assume Hado X line will easily knock his racket off too.
    You're getting out of hand.
    Read what I posted.
    Konjiki was going to return it. But he was distracted by Momoshiro when Momoshiro complimented him as the 7th Hadoukyuu was coming to him.
    Konjiki is attracted to Momo so he stopped playing for a second. The 7th Hadoukyuu hit the daydreaming Konjiki in the mouth.

    Had Konjiki not been distracted seeing as he calculated all those other techniques I mentioned, and returned them, he likely would have returned 7th Hadoukyuu.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    If he can return 7th Hadoukyuu without being distracted, I think he could defeat Akutagawa, as Jirou lacks any skill appart from his Magic Volley. Konjiki would get used to it after some games, and when that happens, then Akutagawa has nothing to face Konjiki as I think his data tennis should be more than enough to defeat Jirou.

    However, Konjiki returned first try Tornado Snake and Jack Knife, I don't see Jirou returning Tornado Snake first try, Konjiki analyzes really effortlesly and can return special shots once he sees them (not all, but many of them). I think Konjiki would win this match.

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Lol, I'm English. It's how we talk.
    Man that's a really American joke lol.
    There are so many problems we have with how Americans talk their ''English'' lol.

    @Phantron
    That reasoning made no sense.
    So because Jirou is Court 5, Jirou > Sanada, Niou, Inui, Kintaro, Kawamura, Momoshiro?

    I think you're trolling. All this time, I fell for it. That must be it.


    You're getting out of hand.
    Read what I posted.
    Konjiki was going to return it. But he was distracted by Momoshiro when Momoshiro complimented him as the 7th Hadoukyuu was coming to him.
    Konjiki is attracted to Momo so he stopped playing for a second. The 7th Hadoukyuu hit the daydreaming Konjiki in the mouth.

    Had Konjiki not been distracted seeing as he calculated all those other techniques I mentioned, and returned them, he likely would have returned 7th Hadoukyuu.
    Way to miss the point about the courts. Court 5 is the court with the most consistent level of power for the middle schoolers. When they're preparing for court 3 Oni obviously thought all the guys there are valid contenders to challenge court 3. During the 6th tiebraker game you can see there's a clear tier structure of who's better out of the remaining 5 players but nobody went to Akutagawa and specifically said: "You're a joke, don't even bother trying." Does this mean Akutagawa is as good as the average court 5 player? Most likely not. He's almost certainly the worst out of the court 5 players but since nobody ever speifically question why he belongs in court 5 (note that Yamato's evaluation specifically says it's unclear how he can be a court 3 with such weak stats) you've to assume he has a baseline stat within the ballpark of court 5 players.

    This doesn't apply to the loser's bracket or court 6 because it is readily obvious these courts cover guys who are godlike to guys who can genuinely be normal people. The best court 5 player might not be better than the best court 6 player, but the worst court 5 player is definitely better than the worst court 6 player.

    You seem to drink too much on the Data Tennis cool-aid too. Inui calculated Ryoma's serve in their first match and still can't return it. Power type techniques, not counting people who can just naturally return them (they're almost invariably the top tier of players), requires either a matching power or a technique that cancels out power. He's obviously not a top tier player like Yukimura who can return a power shot by his tier status. He's not a power player by any stretch of imagination. In the national semifinals, Inui was commenting how Hado 12 is well beyond what is returnable for Kawamura and Kawamura is obviously much stronger than Konjiki. Unless you want to go the route of 'better Data Tennis', power shots after a certain level are well beyond what can be returned by any amount of calculation. You must possess equivalent strength or some kind of technique to deal with it and Konjiki doesn't have them.

    At any rate Magic Volley can probably be returned but because the baseline for court 5 is much higher than any other court, Akutagawa gets the benefit of the doubt. You're basically looking at the worst court 5 player versus a below average player on the loser's bracket. Every other court 5 player would easily destroy a below average player on the loser's bracket, and since it was never said Akutagawa is especially bad compared to rest of the court 5, he gets (perhaps unreasonable) boost to his stat for somehow making to court 5 without having his ability questioned.

  18. #15
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 1 vs Team 12 Singles 2] Konjiki vs Akutagawa

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Way to miss the point about the courts. Court 5 is the court with the most consistent level of power for the middle schoolers. When they're preparing for court 3 Oni obviously thought all the guys there are valid contenders to challenge court 3. During the 6th tiebraker game you can see there's a clear tier structure of who's better out of the remaining 5 players but nobody went to Akutagawa and specifically said: "You're a joke, don't even bother trying." Does this mean Akutagawa is as good as the average court 5 player? Most likely not. He's almost certainly the worst out of the court 5 players but since nobody ever speifically question why he belongs in court 5 (note that Yamato's evaluation specifically says it's unclear how he can be a court 3 with such weak stats) you've to assume he has a baseline stat within the ballpark of court 5 players.
    No. Yamato has weak stats, but it does not imply he has a baseline stat within the ballpark of his court's players. He is simply an outlier for storyline reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    This doesn't apply to the loser's bracket or court 6 because it is readily obvious these courts cover guys who are godlike to guys who can genuinely be normal people. The best court 5 player might not be better than the best court 6 player, but the worst court 5 player is definitely better than the worst court 6 player.
    Doesn't mean a thing. It was random. The Pair Puri says it was decided by who had Shuffles at particular times.
    Yuki, Fuji, Kikumaru, Marui all could have been in Court 5. It's simply because they did not have shuffles when Jirou did.
    Read the Pair Puri's. Your knowledge is completely flawed on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    You seem to drink too much on the Data Tennis cool-aid too. Inui calculated Ryoma's serve in their first match and still can't return it.
    You mean Twist Serve? You think at this stage in the story Inui cannot return it? You have no proof on that.
    Considering he can read when Zero Shiki Drop will come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Power type techniques, not counting people who can just naturally return them (they're almost invariably the top tier of players), requires either a matching power or a technique that cancels out power.
    He's obviously not a top tier player like Yukimura who can return a power shot by his tier status. He's not a power player by any stretch of imagination.
    You are focused too much on the Power Player title. Which is something you clearly don't understand.
    You don't have to be a power player or always be of the very top tier tier return something as long as you understand it perfectly.
    Konjiki is the teammate of Ishida Gin so would have seen Hadoukyuu for over a year. Chances are, he can return a few Hadoukyuus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    In the national semifinals, Inui was commenting how Hado 12 is well beyond what is returnable for Kawamura and Kawamura is obviously much stronger than Konjiki.
    Kawamura did not have good technique back in Nationals. Konjiki was effortlessly returning Tornado Snake. Kawamura didn't have that level of technique.
    You can't compare players when you don't even understand the basics of PoT.
    There are 5 stats to a player: Mental, Power, Speed, Technique and Stamina.

    Konjiki's Technique is likely above Nationals!Kawamura's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Unless you want to go the route of 'better Data Tennis', power shots after a certain level are well beyond what can be returned by any amount of calculation. You must possess equivalent strength or some kind of technique to deal with it and Konjiki doesn't have them.
    You don't know that. We've not seen enough Konjiki. He calculated 7th Hadoukyuu perfectly, returned Dunk Smash and Tornado Snake effortlessly. The guy doesn't suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    At any rate Magic Volley can probably be returned but because the baseline for court 5 is much higher than any other court, Akutagawa gets the benefit of the doubt.
    NO. You do not understand Shin Prince of Tennis.
    The databook states that you advance up a court depending who you are drawn against.
    It was random. Yukimura, Fuji, Yushi, Marui, Kikumaru, Yagyuu just so happened to be drawn against 6th Court opponents and no opponents higher.

    It was by chance Tezuka, Chitose, Atobe, Shiraishi, Kirihara, Akutsu, Jirou etc. got drawn against 5th Court players. It was all by chance. It's stupid to think Jirou was chosen to be in 5th Court because of his skill.
    Remember Fuji says ''If everybody wins their matches, the 5th Court will be entirely made up of Middle Schoolers''.

    It was simply who you were drawn against.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    You're basically looking at the worst court 5 player versus a below average player on the loser's bracket. Every other court 5 player would easily destroy a below average player on the loser's bracket, and since it was never said Akutagawa is especially bad compared to rest of the court 5, he gets (perhaps unreasonable) boost to his stat for somehow making to court 5 without having his ability questioned.
    We don't need it to be said.
    The High Schoolers below 3rd Court level are all weak. 4th Court were completely shut down by 3rd Court.
    So we know getting to 5th Court is a simple task
    So obviously, the likes of Jirou could reach 5th Court.

    Akutagawa is especially bad to everybody in his Court. Let's leave out the obvious Oni.
    Let's throw him against Krauser. Krauser would kill Akutagawa.
    Tachibana, Akutsu, Chitose, Tezuka, Atobe, Kirihara, Kite, Gin and Shiraishi would all destroy Jirou.

    His ability wouldn't get questioned since the Middle Schoolers don't care about 5th Court. They all want to aim for the top.
    So none of your reasoning is relevant.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; September 30, 2012 at 02:30 PM.

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