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Thread: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    I suspect there are plenty of debilitating Specialist abilities, or even Conjured abilities, that can severely weaken Meryem. Individuals possessing these abilities will act as support whilst guys with evasive/defensive abilities tank. Imagine Porcupine fighting against Meryem. Yeah sure he'd probably be aura blasted to hell but if he sneaks up close and the King decides to punch him instead...well, I don't know. Guys with abilities that require charge-up time will definitely have time to charge up their abilities. Somebody could probably teleport a rev'd up Sphinx and there that would probably inflict non-negligible damage. The possibilities are endless. I just don't think a being like the King who has brute force can take down every Hunter in the world just like that.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    I suspect there are plenty of debilitating Specialist abilities, or even Conjured abilities, that can severely weaken Meryem. Individuals possessing these abilities will act as support whilst guys with evasive/defensive abilities tank. Imagine Porcupine fighting against Meryem. Yeah sure he'd probably be aura blasted to hell but if he sneaks up close and the King decides to punch him instead...well, I don't know. Guys with abilities that require charge-up time will definitely have time to charge up their abilities. Somebody could probably teleport a rev'd up Sphinx and there that would probably inflict non-negligible damage. The possibilities are endless. I just don't think a being like the King who has brute force can take down every Hunter in the world just like that.
    The whole point is that Meryem's strength surpasses strategy, tactics, or special abilities. Going way back in the materialization example, you can't just create aura power that affects an entity whose power is far beyond the limit of human technology. Or, put it another way, you're not going to create a damage effect more powerful than the Rose, or a special effect more devastating than the Rose poison. In fact, if anyone can do either of those power they'd already be pretty much undefeatable in the world of HXH. So if you assume Meryem is already poisoned it's pointless to assume another special power could weaken him because he's already weakened by a power that's far beyond the limit of Aura (there's no possible way you can create Rose poison with Aura).

    Your specialist guy would pretty much all just die before they even see Meryem since he's just that fast. You woudln't have time to charge up anything, because Meryem would kill you before you're done charging up any attack. Even if you had an ability like Cheetu's, Meryem would immediately catch up to Cheetu in this case and then break out of the artifical dimension, so even artifical dimension can't stop him.

  3. #18
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The whole point is that Meryem's strength surpasses strategy, tactics, or special abilities. Going way back in the materialization example, you can't just create aura power that affects an entity whose power is far beyond the limit of human technology. Or, put it another way, you're not going to create a damage effect more powerful than the Rose, or a special effect more devastating than the Rose poison.
    I think the bit about conjured weapons being at most equivalent to real world ones is dubious. Truth is you can conjure all sorts of strange weapons and gadgets that have effects that are beyond the reach of technology. For example, how do you measure the amount of damage Sphinx does with while revved up? How much can he revv up? What sort of damage are we talking about here? It's basically impossible to compare. What about Gon's transformation condition? Whatever that condition imposes on him is not something technology could reverse or even recognize but, in the end, was cured by Nen. A certain Nen beast has the horrifying ability to fly in the air without wings and keep someone alive whilst consuming their brains.

    Of course you could say that it's technologically possible - it just hasn't been discovered/invented yet. But in that case, you are effectively saying that anything is technologically possible. If so, Nen should be the same.

    The Rose isn't even the be-all-end-all of explosions anyway. It's a miniature nuke that fit in Netero's chest. Pufu waded into ground zero whilst it was still ablaze and was absolutely fine with the heat.

    Quote Quote:
    In fact, if anyone can do either of those power they'd already be pretty much undefeatable in the world of HXH. So if you assume Meryem is already poisoned it's pointless to assume another special power could weaken him because he's already weakened by a power that's far beyond the limit of Aura (there's no possible way you can create Rose poison with Aura).
    It could be something as simple as "immobilze the target" after fulfilling condition "xyz". Or put the target into a state of Zetsu if you sacrifice a hundred baby infants. Could be anything, really. There's no limit to what Nen could do and what it personally means (which affects how strong it is) to a person.

    Quote Quote:
    Your specialist guy would pretty much all just die before they even see Meryem since he's just that fast. You woudln't have time to charge up anything, because Meryem would kill you before you're done charging up any attack. Even if you had an ability like Cheetu's, Meryem would immediately catch up to Cheetu in this case and then break out of the artifical dimension, so even artifical dimension can't stop him.
    Or you could be like the Chameleon guy. His ability isn't all that inconceivable. Not sure if you're invisible to En but the King isn't going to be firing off En every second. I personally think his speed is over-rated. Those manga panels don't give a real perspective on the amount of time that transpires between them.

  4. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    There's nothing in HXH that simply outright violates what can be achieved by humans so it'd stand to reason that Phinx's got an upper limit to his fist. It's not like he can rev up 1000 times and then blow up the world or whatever.

    Meleoron is actually a great example of how special abilities are useless against Meryem. It specifically said that the moment Meryem's En touched Meleoron, Meleoron didn't even have the time to think "I got to use my ability" before Meryem knocked him out. Mereym's speed is much faster than the speed of thought so he'll just instantly KO anyone his En touched if he's out to kill, and it doesn't matter what ability you have because you can't even activate it on time. I guess you could have an ability like 'activates when I die' but honestly, who is going to specialize in that kind of stuff?

    Aura is not all powerful. You can't have unconditional abilities like 'uncondtionally immobilize' to begin with, the same reason why there isn't an 'unconditionally unbreakable' ability. At most you can do 'immobilize even people with XYZ strength" but since Meryem's physical stat far exceeds the limit of humans, he's likely to simple overcome whatever that may be viewed as impossible with human physical power.

  5. #20
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    There's nothing in HXH that simply outright violates what can be achieved by humans so it'd stand to reason that Phinx's got an upper limit to his fist. It's not like he can rev up 1000 times and then blow up the world or whatever.
    What do you mean when you say "achieved by humans"? It's apples and oranges because the mechanisms behind Nen and say, technology are completely different. Furthermore, why are "humans" the benchmark?

    Why can't Sphinx blow up the world? Sure it would be absurd and it would make sense for there to be some limit but a nuclear bomb can wipe out a continent. Kite
    Spoiler show
    .

    Quote Quote:
    Meleoron is actually a great example of how special abilities are useless against Meryem. It specifically said that the moment Meryem's En touched Meleoron, Meleoron didn't even have the time to think "I got to use my ability" before Meryem knocked him out. Mereym's speed is much faster than the speed of thought so he'll just instantly KO anyone his En touched if he's out to kill, and it doesn't matter what ability you have because you can't even activate it on time. I guess you could have an ability like 'activates when I die' but honestly, who is going to specialize in that kind of stuff?
    We're talking about scores of Hunters here, on the attack and defense, fully cognizant of Meryem's strengths and weaknesses.

    Quote Quote:
    Aura is not all powerful. You can't have unconditional abilities like 'uncondtionally immobilize' to begin with, the same reason why there isn't an 'unconditionally unbreakable' ability. At most you can do 'immobilize even people with XYZ strength" but since Meryem's physical stat far exceeds the limit of humans, he's likely to simple overcome whatever that may be viewed as impossible with human physical power.
    Again, why is human power the benchmark? There's no theoretical limit to human power anyway, so i'm confused by what you mean. Note also that even in his enlightened form Meryem still got pwned by Komugi at. Meryem himself admits that on his way to the palace he ate a child who had the potential to be greater than him in a certain field. Why assume Meryem is the be-all-and-end-all? I'm not trying to sell him short here - no doubt he'd take down quite a few Hunters by himself - but when Hunters with their myriad of quirky, tricky, highly specialized abilities work together to form a cooperative i suspect the sum is far greater than the whole.

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  7. #21
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    Meryem is the end all be all of physical superiority. It's been well established since early on even before he got his power upgrade and he also always acknowledged that people could be better than him at other stuff but it doesn't matter because he can kill anybody that is better than him at something else that isn't of physical nature. "Violence is the greatest power", as he would say, and in a fight to the death it doesn't matter how clever you are against someone who can kill you before you can even think about using an ability.

    Aura makes up for some physical deficiencies to a point but there's a point where you can no longer make up the difference and Meryem is way beyond that. It doesn't matter what kind of ability someone might have because he can hit someone before they can even use any ability and currently there isn't a human being that can even take a hit from him (especially if he was actually going for kill). Basically the only way anyone would even get to use any ability in front of him is if he wanted to see what ability his opponent may have, but that's probably not going to happen in the hypothetical scenario above.

    It might be possible with some extreme amount of planning to come up with some set of rules or something that will allow you to symbolically defeat Meryem, but it doesn't matter because he can still kill you whenever he decides these rules are dumb. Meryem can't beat Komugi in Shogi but he can most certainly kill her any time he wanted to, and at his post Rose state he can pretty much kill any human being anytime he wanted to.

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  9. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    Well,
    Spoiler show
    dead.

    Somebody could have a blind ability or a zetsu ability or something that forces zetsu...

    And the nen of people with strong convictions remain after death.

    I mean the possibilities are endless. I think Meryem will wipe out most of the Hunters but something or other would - at least - severely debilitate him.

  10. #23
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    But she is not a hunter...I really don't see how Meruem could win,even with his En,unless all hunters are together.
    Last edited by Demonspeed; October 19, 2012 at 03:40 AM.

  11. #24
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    Re: Meryem vs Every Hunter Survival match

    Well in the hypothetical scenario you can 'win' by just spreading out far enough until Meryem dies from poison.

    If you have say Meryem ordered a purge on all Hunters and he's out to wipe every one of them himself in say a month, and say that Hunter are known to be in a geographic location that size of a normal nation and can't leave, and can't just start digging really deep holes to try to avoid being detected, he'd obviously win very easily.

    Alluka possesses unconditional abilities, as in it's inconceiveable anything in HXH can resist/fight back against his power. But he's also pretty much the only character who has such conditional abilities, especially when applied in a physical form. For example Chain Jail is 'borderline unbreakable', but given Kurapika needed to test it on Ubogin first, it's clear that it must be breakable if you're strong enough. If Meryem joined the Spiders and got Chain Jailed, the Zetsu part would work, but he would still be strong enough to break the Chain Jail by his physical power. So any special effects that applies some kind of physical force wouldn't work because he can just brute force out of it.

    Now stuff like 'paralysis' or 'slumber' might work on Meryem, but how can you even hit someone with Meryem's speed with any kind of weapon? His En is all-encompassing and can read people's emotion, so you're not going to be sneak up on him, not that he'd have any reason to random get hit by objects.

    The only kind of ability that might have at least a chance of hitting him would be the 'trigger on death' abilities but generally speaking people in HXH don't seem to specialize in such abilities, probably because they usually want to live.

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