Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/25/14 - 8/31/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Interesting discussion here. Not taking either side, nor favoring either Kensei or Hongo, here are few of my points.
It was said that God Hand was the best in Yami in raising disciples, but manga has tarnished this statement on more than one occasion. Most important is that Hongo neglected to strengthen Kano Sho's heart, stated to be the most important thing for a martial artist, something Hongo himself pondered on. This resulted in a defeat of his disciple to Kenichi and ruined his reputation.
Comment about Kensei being able to train a lot of people in this last chapter shouldn't be taken that seriously. Its purpose was to hype Kensei more before his fight. Training bunch of fodder to fodder level was never and never will be an admirable achievement, not in this or any other manga. The only relevant thing is Kensei has four capable disciples he actively trains, no small trait, but their strength is yet to be seen. It was said that Kensei secretly hopes that one of his disciples surpasses him and kills him, which shows that he is really obsessed with training and raising disciples.
One point to take is the strength of their disciples. Kano Sho was the strongest Yomi and their leader while Ryuto was, even while healthy, only mid-level Yomi, now probably even lower. Hongo's current disciples are almost certainly a lot weaker than Kensei's, though he's trained them for short period of time. Whether he is motivated to train them well and if they can surpass Kensei's disciples or if Hongo will choose new main disciple is yet to be seen.
Lastly, not carrying about your disciple's well-being is not a trait of a good master imo.
Last edited by Buggy; September 30, 2012 at 07:04 AM.
Actually I wouldn´t say that the guys who were fighting Ryuzonpaku Masters were fodder. They might have looked fodder compared to Super Masters from Ryuozanpaku, but they would have made fodder treatment on Kenichi and his gang as they look like low level Masters or very strong Experts, so it really is a fit to teach so many people Ancient Martial Arts.
Also, talking about Kano Shou. He was good, the best in Yami at that point, but he was that good mostly because he was stated to be as blessed with talent as Miu from his birth and as well he was trained from his childhood among Kuremisago and then in Yami, so he was obviously destined from the begining to become a truly fearsome fighter, but he was also taught other things apart from KarateÑ Muai Tai, Jiu Jitsu and other styles from One Shadow Nine Fists, so it wasn´t actually Hongou´s teaching that made him that strong. He was only one of his teachers, the same as Kenichi, because we can´t say that Ken'chan is Akisame´s or Sakaki´s student. Even though we should consider that his strongest techs mostly come from Elder...
I gave enough space to personal interpretations, for now I will only concede points regarding this to actual manga pages.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/8519/hi...erieru-scans/8 Akira's methods are unquestionable, Saiga is present.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/8519/hi...rieru-scans/12 Sho was given to Akira, my mistake.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/8518/hi...rieru-scans/12 Akira's teachings at work against Mikumo, only Karate was used.
http://www.mangareader.net/historys-...-kenichi/471/8 Sho before being trained by Silcardo, all he had was karate (Silcardo's bubble page 17) and it saved his life.
Sho's talent needs someone to shape it, they entrusted the most talented person to Akira and later (before training him) the OSNF recognized Akira's work on Sho:
There are only 2 times when talent alone was enough to create a martial artist: the Elder and now Berserker.
With this I conclude: Akira is the best when it comes to raise a disciple.
If you disagree, post pages where it is stated that it was all Sho and Akira had nothing to do with it, personal interpretations will be refused.
Just look at your post, while I am reading the manga you are making up answers out of "not knowing", that thing only works if the information will be revealed later (like in One Piece where they wondered if Momonga knew Haki and later was revealed all vice-admiral and up in rank know haki).
Last edited by Lectro Volpi; October 01, 2012 at 01:38 AM.
Akira's methods have never been in question though. We all know he is an excellent teacher, the manga has brought up that multiple times.
Sho only using karate during that training is by no means a fact. He was already the one disciple by then and we didn't actually see the fight. For all we know he used a number of other styles and quite frankly that is what would make the most sense.
True, sho needs to be shaped however that he was given to akira by no means proves he was the best teacher there. We don't know if others were already raising a disciple, we don't know if others would have him, we don't know if the others were even available or to what extent their willingness to outright murder their disciples played a part here. The particular moments you linked were from when sho was a child, at that time we don't even know if kensei was even a member of OSNF (we know for a fact that he only recently joined). We don't even know from where exactly sho was even chosen to inherit all the styles.
So on akira's side we have sho, a kuremisago on par with miu in terms of talent, and the other two guys who seem completely unremarkable (well, not unremarkable but nowhere near sho and they don't see to be quite on the level as other yomi).
And on kensei's side we have rimi, berserker, lugh, ryuto and an army of at least experts who impressed ryozampaku. Kensei overall has a much better average than what akira had.
So, what do we think is going to happen here exactly?
Is Lugh going to fodderize some Shinpaku members?
Or maybe we'll have a one on one until Lugh gets forced to leave?
I see a fodderizing scenario improbable overall. Regardless of how a strong a disciple lugh might in the shinpaku alliance you have kenichi and miu. Miu should by all intents and purposes be superior to lugh and kenichi is the second strongest there. Takeda is also disciple of a super master class and seems to be growing stronger quite fast. Freya might not be yomi caliber but she is still a proficient weapon user. I think the scenario will simply showcase lugh with whatever special ability he has in short fights which really won't tell us much about his overall strength. He will appear to be awesome but nothing conclussive as to how he would fare at least against kenichi and miu. In all likelihood a big part of the wow factor here will be about whatever special ability he has been training with kensei.
I think other fighters from the alliance should fight them instead of kenchi fighting all the time we need all the alliance fights to be ready for yomi
Chapter is out, someone do the next thread!