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No bleeding eyes, no headache, no signs of strain... he just casually stands there and his Susanoo uses Amaterasu for him. Setting the whole room on fire until Raikage has nowhere to escape is a piece of cake for EMS Sasuke... he can start with a little campfire caused by his Magatama and spread it everywhere with his Enton.
Chakra drain? Probably less then 10% of what he has.
Last edited by LnDRash; October 08, 2012 at 09:02 AM.
Its like saying Gokyakuu, the great Fireball, is completely different from Hosenka, the fire projectiles.
Both uses fire, they are simply styled differently.
The jutsu Jiraiya used against Itachi and Kisame transformed the house into a toad, the jutsu Jiraiya used to trap the fodders transformed a toad into a house.
As for the wall, see again how you see no wall here, only flesh smoothly burned.
You don't see an interruption on the wall of flesh.
My bad, it was my misconception of the wordQuote:
What I meant is that the wall wasn't immune to fire, only resistant to it.
As I already made the example with the acid, being resistant doesn't mean being immune, and since the wall of flesh wasn't immune to fire it doesn't mean that that wall of flesh > earth
Again, Amaterasu doesn't burn at that temperature, its not even close.Quote:
You see here neither Sasuke nor Itachi being affected by the heat while being near it.
If Amaterasu burned at, say, 5000° Celsius ( which is the "coldest" temperature on the sun ) their body would evaporate by being that close
^ Already replied, and, as I already pointed it out, Gaara's sand withstood Amaterasu just fineQuote:
The CT core was suspended what, 100 meters in the air?Quote:
Sasuke shot his dragons in the atmosphere, pretty different. Also heat rises, true, yet Sasuke doesn't have a portable forest ignited with Amaterasu, and still needs to shoot dragons made of fire in the atmosphere to heat it.
Until you can prove that those projectiles have that reach and that they would ignite the atmosphere I'm afraid Sasuke can't use Kirin with that.
Go back and read how much CS2 changed the Sound Five, and then you have an idea on how much it increases the power.Quote:
Jirobou claimed his strenght increased tenfold
No, you said that Amaterasu got through no problem hitting webs, to prove how Amaterasu can destroy things.Quote:
Also no, it didn't.
Considering he has an Armour, made of lightning, which empowers every blow he uses yes, I very much so believe that legdrop had high penetrative powers.Quote:
An arrow by Susano'o can be redirected, as Danzou showed.
I don't have proof Itachi wanted to burn Sasuke?Quote:
Guess what he did here? Itachi predicted Sasuke had a way to deal with Amaterasu, thus he had no problems in hitting him with it, apparently.
Also lol at Sasuke not knowing what Amaterasu is, when he stated that Kirin was a jutsu very like Amaterasu.
And he knew Tsukuyomi pretty well.
Amaterasu is Amaterasu, never it was stated that Sasuke was better at it in strenght, the only difference is that Sasuke can control Amaterasu's flames and can create a sword and projectiles made of it, just like Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is a normal genjutsu while Itachi's Tsukuyomi can control space and time.
The very core of the jutsu, as in creating flames from the eye, is the same.
EDIT: also you don't want to discuss on how Itachi's Amaterasu is different from Sasuke's, since it was Itachi's one that burned the belly of the toad, not Sasuke's.
Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; October 08, 2012 at 08:06 AM.
He was preparing to genjutsu Shi. Learn to read the manga. Seriously.
Lolzz, so Amaterasu boomerangs would suddenly become slow just because they are controlled by Enton?Quote:
Correction: That was the best degree of control Sasuke had. You are assuming that Sasuke's control of Amaterasu is stagnant, when in fact the manga has shown that his control of Amaterasu has been improving continuously - when he fought Bee the only control he has over Amaterasu was to extinguish it, but when he fought A he could already shape the flames into spikes etc, and then when he fought Zetsu he could already launch the Amaterasu flames as projectiles.Quote:
His degree of control over Amaterasu is constantly improving. Hence your assertion that Sasuke's control of Amaterasu would be limited to forming shields just like 10 chapters ago is a gigantic bag of ignorance.
Flames can be used to create lightning. All he needs to do is recreate the same effect on a smaller scale.Quote:
Who said so? Kishi? Where?Quote:
That's like asking why didn't Naruto use Rasenshuriken in chapter 1.Quote:
---------- Post added at 06:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 AM ----------
A's lightning armor is shitty when it comes to increasing offensive power. He couldn't even reach Sasuke who was just protected by an incomplete, half-assed, skeletal frame. All he did was waste away his arm.
And when it comes to defensive power, the lightning armor is still shit, since it got penetrated by a low-ranking Chidori. Sasuke learnt that when he was like 12?
When Amaterasu boomerangs are showed to be ultrafast, mind you?Quote:
When Amaterasu manipulation was showed to be ultrafast?
Claiming that Sasuke's affinity with Amaterasu is increasing isn't nearly the same thing as claiming he can do shit with it that wasn't showed nor hinted in the manga, treating it as proof.Quote:
Do show Sasuke doing what you claimed, manga panel, not fanfiction.
It isn't even hinted that Sasuke can redirect those projectiles, by what degree, with what speed, strenght or whatever, its your story, in your head, supported by nothing
Doesn't mean that fire can increase lightning, Kirin isn't stronger than a normal thunder in the first place, Sasuke simply takes control of it
By that logic, one can make up all kind of things because Kishi didn't say so.Quote:
I can claim that Kakashi can use every jutsu of his elements because, well, he knows 1000 jutsus and Kishi never said he can't use a jutsu
I can also say Naruto can use every kind of Fuuton because he has the elements and Kishi never said Naruto didn't learn those from somewhere
Again when debating in the arena one uses facts, panels, not fanfiction made in someone's mind
---------- Post added at 07:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------
Shame the only way Sasuke can survive that shitty character is hiding behind Susano'o and hoping one of his tricks can work, if we want to make A as out of character as you make Sasuke to be he can simply dodge whatever Sasuke throws at him until Sasuke drops dead by chakra usage, he covers the floor with Amaterasu? No problem, the roof it is
Also I clearly forgot Raikage punching a hole through Juugo.
Just like I forgot Raikage hitting Sasuke in the neck despite Susano'o, and Gaara saving Sasuke's butt from a double kill
Dude one is a summoning tech and that is it. The other is summoning and then using your chakra to manipulate the summon. They are COMPLETLY diferent. Its like comparing chakra to shape manipulation.Quote:
The only part this 2 have in common is the ability to shape the flesh of the toad.
The frog has the ability to change its flesh to replicate the inside of a bar of whatever.
Chaging the frog's body is 1 thing. Changing the matter that has nothing to do with the body of a frog that can't even do what the store frog can is completly another thing.
Seriously do you know what Kuchiyose is and what it does?
1 is a FROG that has the ability to turn into a shop with JMan's chakra and the other summoning is a jutsu that teleports there the inside of the frog's belly. It does NOT transforms the house into a frog for God's sake.
This jutsu does not transforms anything and defenetly not a house into a frog. It just summons the bloody esophagus there. Its just an organ.
I am seriously done with this. Belive what you whant.
It does not work like that. Its still a manga. Side effects... are side effects.. Before you start with the double standards or whatever i can support this.Quote:
JMan has a jutsu that burns at thousands of degrees, Senpō: Goemon... And this is what? Close to his face and he is fine? Why? Manga that is why.
Databook on this as evidence:
You are defenetly need to provide more if you whant to disprove this, at least in my eyes.
As for the rest they are all free to belive what they whant.
Not focused one, but i am sure we are not going anywhere with this. Something burning at the Sun's surfece would evaporate(melt or whatever) his sand like nothing.Quote:
He does have in his Susano flametrower mode. Just ignite everything there. Set the entire house on fire if need be. Those dragons defenetly don't have that much heat. Just trow multiple Amaterasu arrows and whatever up in the sky. Sasuke used what? 3 fireballs (or was it 4). Let's say he ends up trowing 12 arrows in the sky or 12 discs things. Then the fire would not go away compared to the fireballs that would disipate after some time. His fire would keep burning sending heat up.Quote:
Yes it changes your body, i already know that. I was refering to amping the jutsu up.Quote:
Yes i did say it was able to brake trough the web but i made no corelation from the web to the sand or ground. I asked if that is what you where refering to and that it was able to burn trough it like nothing.Quote:
Of course it had penetrating power and power in general. I said compared to Susano using that big Amaterasu spear. Gaara did not had to exacly fight off the piercing power considering how he grabed Raikage.Quote:
I am aware what Danzo states here:
But that is just wrong if you think about it. What he did there is grow a tree to push HIMSELF out of the way. The tree was NOT in front of Danzo to move the arrow before it got to Danzo. Look here:
Its in his face. So what exacly move? He moved himself.
Not to say an arrow can't be redirecte but what Danzo did there... It does not make much sense to me if we go with what he said.
He did wanted that but he also wanted for him to have time to spit himself out. Itachi even stopped the flames before burning his torso and head.Quote:
Sasuke said that only AFTER he got to see Amaterasu in action from Itachi.
Again you can have:
a) For whatever reason that was shoot slower.
b)Sasuke can do it faster as Raikage speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hebi Sasuke's.
That is diferent, we where arguing how fast one can use said Amaterasu. Sasuke has BETTER eyes an they where just about at 100%. Itachi was having vision problems and in pain and close to death.Quote:
Then when he covers one eye:
When he shoot Amaterasu the eye focusing after Sasuke would be the one working better and considering the pain that ends up doing... He probably ended with 2 bad eyes tring to focus.
Look even here. Considerin the speed diference from him and Raikage, Sasuke should not be able to move to the left:
Raikage needed INSAINE speed to do so.
That is why i said you can't really compare. Sasuke clearly showed to be able to do BETTER.
Still this arguing is irrelevant as Sasuke woukd murder stomp Gaara here. HE can win and easy even with NO SUSANO or AMATERASU.
Gaara has a big handicap here:
1-He can't get more sand as the floor is solid rock from the building and even if we asume he can eventualy dig his way trough its going to be to late. So Gaara would be working with this much sand:
2- He is inside a close space. He can't keep distance at all. He can't fly up or back.
What does this means? Sasuke using his speed would ignore completly the sand and run circles around Gaara like in part 1. Yes his sand is probably faster but Sasuke has a HUGE speed boost from part 1 to part 2. He is going to run circles and then Chidori Gaara like nothing or raiton spear him in half. The only thing Gaara can do (like in part 1) is go bubble mode but that can be penetrated easy by Sasuke's raiton... Gaara can't even follow Sasuke as that would mean he is looking at Sasuke and that means he is down on the ground drooling and incapacitated.
Giving Sasuke Susano is just overkill. He just casualy walks to where Gaara is and using his spear impales Gaara trough the sand. This time Gaara does not have his ultimate defence statue and Amoured Susano with Amaterasu spear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimimaro with his spear bone...
Now if this was Sasuke vs Gaara in open space in the sand place... Yeah really good fight but considering the handicap Gaara has its not a fight.
VS Raikage just set the entire place on fire so he does not have where to run. Kirin is just an easy win but using Susano to set the place on fire in a closed room and Raikage is just about dead. He would have nowhere to run or as he would get Amaterasu on him.
Tsuck again is limited because its inside a room and Sasuke can snipe him faster then Tsuck can use Jinton (handseals and he is an old man). Sasuke can Chidori him faster then he can do seals. No need to use Amateraus even. The old man is not a speedster.
Mei? LOL Irrelevant.
Tsunade? Same thing.
Sasuke has this in the bag.
Last edited by xXan; October 08, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
Sharingan-based genjutsus do not require hand seals. Can your credibility go any lower?
Oh I guess they are ultra slow then?Quote:
Sasuke's control over the Amaterasu flames is increasing, whether you acknowledge it or not.Quote:
Your assumption that Sasuke's control over Amaterasu would stay stagnant is as ridiculous as saying that Naruto's control over Rasengan will never improve anymore.
It's a fantasy fight. Manga panel my foot.Quote:
The fact that I can come up with so many new strategies with Sasuke's existing combination of abilities shows that the Kages will never stand a chance.
The later into the future they fight, the bigger the gap between Sasuke's chance of winning and theirs.
Itachi clearly said that Sasuke was using the surrounding Amaterasu to increase the power of Kirin. Reread the manga.Quote:
You can try if you want, only that it would be a laughing stock.Quote:
There's a difference betwen claiming that Sasuke would invent a new jutsu and claiming that Tsunade can beat Madara. Both are speculations, but the first one is a logical one, while the second one is BS.
Last edited by Ryr; October 08, 2012 at 09:06 AM.
Itachi is doing here?
Handseal to shoot Amaterasu, which doesn't require handseals.
Handseals are made to focus chakra
And you still didn't explain why he was looking at Raikage or why he was on the wall facing him, when later, when he one-shotted Shi, he was on a totally different position
We don't know how fast Enton is, considering it was showed not to be ultrafast one can assume it isn't unavoidableQuote:
Never said Sasuke's control is stagnant, I said that your degree of control is simply ridiculous, since he was never hinted at being at that level.Quote:
Nor he showed it
I don't know if you are a troll or if you really believe in what you wrote, regardless you, good sir, just made my dayQuote:
What you wrote is ok in a rpg made by you, where you create the rules, or in a fanfiction that you write.
Here, in the arena, serious debaters uses feats, statements in the manga to back up what they write.
Assumptions are ok until they are believable and have a bit of logic behind them, what you wrote is neither logical nor has any validity behind them. You are basically creating a Sasuke that can do whatever you want him to do
Maybe its you who need to reread the manga good sir, its not Itachi, its Zetsu, and its not for powering up Kirin, but only to make it appear faster as he needed heat to warm the atmosphere, and a forest on fire surely increased the heat rising to the atmosphereQuote:
Naw, you are doing such a fine job yourself, I don't want to steal the spotlight from youQuote:
Man having to answer to all of us must be really draining you lol(more then one topic to:P)l.
We can agree to disagree then
Databooks aren't reliable for those informations, those are hyperboles, never it is hinted that Jiraiya's Rasengan can tore through a mountain, for example.Quote:
^ See above, Amaterasu burning at the same temperature as the sun is an hyperbole.Quote:
If that was the case, everytime Amaterasu would impact on something and burn, everything around it would be dryed and destroyed
Point is, we don't know if those projectiles or the arrows can travel that distance, if they could Sasuke would use Kirin more frequently.Quote:
If he bothered to use those dragons while in CS2 and never used Kirin anymore there is a reason.
And should he be able to set it up as easily, he should've used it instead of Amaterasu, which consumed way more chakra and reduced his eyesight.
We know Sasuke wasn't in the right state of mind, but he wasn't stupid
Sakon and Ukon could regenerate entire parts of their body while in CS2.Quote:
Kidomaru's arrows incredibly increased in power.
Jirobou's strenght and taijutsu increased incredibly.
Tayuya's genjutsu were apparently better.
Kimimaro tore through Gaara's sand like nothing while before he had to use CS1 to survive a normal Sand Coffin.
Sasuke's Chidori against Naruto was way stronger than normal since it withstood a Kyuubi-empowered one.
Its safe to assume CS2 increase was massive
Gaara can both use sand fast enough to redirect it, and can also use sand to move his body like he did to Madara.Quote:
As for penetrative power, of course its not comparable to a Susano'o spear, yet if that sand could withstood Raikage's Raiton Armour and Amaterasu's flames, it just shows it isn't easily surpassed.
What I have is that Amaterasu can be dodged if you are in the scope of Hebi Sasuke and Raikage's speed, with Raikage being the speed for optimal dodge and Hebi Sasuke the speed for a near dodge.Quote:
And of course you have to have intel on the jutsu, if you don't know Amaterasu can be shot by the eye and is focused on where the eye looks, you are screwed
That's why I can't really bring myself to answer the last wall of text you wrote, too long
Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; October 08, 2012 at 09:36 AM.
Since when does looking at someone means you are going to genjutsu him? All we know is that Sasuke genjutsu-ed Shi. He was not targeting A at that time.Quote:
Lolzz. You are arguing that Sasuke couldn't genjutsu A when Sasuke has not even tried.
When was it shown to not be 'ultra-fast'? What is 'ultra-fast' in the first place? You are just making up your own definition.Quote:
His control over the flames of Amaterasu has been improving and will continue to improve. That's the logical continuation of the trend of his character.Quote:
I am enjoying every bit of these debates. Let's continue.Quote:
So, according to you, assuming that one of the major characters in the Narutoverse who has been shown to be incredibly creative as being stagnant in his control over one of his fundamental abilities is considered 'serious'?
My arguments are all extensions of the current manga reality. Control over Amaterasu is already a given fact. I simply extends it a bit into an improvement.Quote:
It's a lot more logical than your fundamental argument that the best Sasuke could do with his Amaterasu is 'to make shields', when Sasuke has been shown to never be a stagnant character when it comes to techniques.
Right, so the Amaterasu flames were there to make the Kirin 'appear faster'.
I'll just let you own yourself there.
Because uchiha blood is enough to counter all of your so called opinion.
And he done a very good job. And the fact that he doesn`t need any assumption/speculation to counter your arguments. Proof vs opinion.
All of sasukes fans are overstimating him too much. Giving him a power that doesn`t exist in the manga.
Saying that mei is useless to sasuke when sasuke himself almost got beaten by mei in the manga.
Saying that sasuke can snipe oonoki whereas in the manga himself, sasuke who got replenish his chakra through zetsu cant do anything from being rape by oonoki. And without obito, sasuke is already gone and his dead in molecular level.
Proof? He assumed that Sasuke's abilities would not improve. It would be really interesting for me to wait for Sasuke's next fight just to see how radical his improvements would be.Quote:
No, it's people like you who overestimates the Kages. One-trick ponies who are neither smart nor have any room for improvement.Quote:
I'll say it again, if Mei fights the current Sasuke, she'll get one-shotted from Amaterasu boomerang. What can she do other than to accept her own incompetence?Quote:
Sasuke would be doing much better against the Kages now, thanks to his recent but significant improvements. The Kages are still the same, without any growth. As a result, he would have a lot more chakra when he reaches Onoki.Quote:
Answer this good fellow
When he used Enton to produce a jutsu.Quote:
The barrier wasn't ultra fast, the Amaterasu projectiles weren't ultrafast.
Trust me, I'm not the one that is making up things
Which doesn't mean he will obtain the degree of control you claim he already has.Quote:
Don't try to backpeddle, you didn't merely say that Sasuke's control improved, you said that he could coat his Susano'o sword with lighting and could control his Amaterasu projectiles similary as Senbonzakura, taking Raikage by all sides at high speed.Quote:
Current manga reality never hinted, nor showed at anything you wrote, which is your Sasuke, and not canon Sasuke.Quote:
Again if you are so confidend, post manga panels of Sasuke coathing a Susano'o weapon in lightning or of Sasuke redirecting his Magatama
Considering he needed a heated atmosphere to bring forth Kirin, yes, this is what happened.Quote:
But please, by all means do provide a better reason, since your "Fire was used to power up Kirin" in false.
Kirin is a normal thunder that Sasuke takes control of, unless you believe Sasuke can create Kirin with his own chakra
---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------
I would demand excuses too, since I don't see all the indignant ones there being indignant here
Similarly, you have no idea what Sasuke was planning at that moment, so obviously he was casting a genjutsu at A!!!
Logic at its worst frankly.
The barrier was fast enough to materialize before A can hit him, so that when A did hit him, he waste away his arm.Quote:
I claim that he will eventually in the future. You claim that the best he would be in the future is the same as what he had in the past.Quote:
The more we go into the future, the more I will win.
I foresee him doing this if he fights Gaara. He already did something similar when he crushed Deidara.Quote:
It's a fantasy fight. You are supposed to think of a possible way for Gaara to beat my strategy.
The fact that you couldn't means that my strategy in this particular fantasy fight is unbeatable using Gaara's limited arsenal.
Do you even make any sense here? The heated atmosphere is what creates and empowers Kirin. The more heat there is, the stronger Kirin would become.
And guess what produces a lot of heat? Ama-f*cking-terasu.
Last edited by Ryr; October 08, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
After which A says the Sharingan is no match for him, no less?
That wasn't Enton, as in Amaterasu manipulation, but only the summoning of the flames on Susano'o.Quote:
You know, like he does when he forms a sword made of Amaterasu's flames.
By Enton jutsus I mean Kagetsuchi and the Magatama
Which, again, doesn't mean that, at the present time, as in today, he has the degree of control you claim he already has.Quote:
By what you wrote, I can safely assume Naruto has Hiraishin because he knows the three guys that knows it, thus he will ask them to teach it, thus in every debate I'll make so that Naruto will have Hiraishin.
Solid logic right there
Show me when Sasuke, fighting Deidara, coathed a Susano'o sword in lightning.Quote:
Fantasy fight doesn't mean "I make shit up so my favourite character wins" fight, it means "find a way for my favourite character to win with what he has" fight.
And sadly for you, a Susano'o sword coathed in lightning and omnidirectional Amaterasu projectiles are something Sasuke doesn't have, nor he was hinted to have
You clearly don't have the slightest idea on how Kirin works.Quote:
I'll explain it to you:
Sasuke heats the atmosphere, using fire dragons and, in that particular istance, a forest ignited by Amaterasu.
To rapidly warm up the atmosphere above and generate a powerful rising air current.
To create cumuloninbus, better known as thunderclouds.
Its a natural phenomenon, its not Sasuke powering up a thunder thanks to the heat, is the heat forming cumuloninbus and in turn Sasuke taking control of the lightning that the cumuloninbus formed.
Look here's the Wiki link if you don't believe me
Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; October 08, 2012 at 10:29 AM.