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Thread: Kage Summit Rematch

  1. #76
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    If the entire room is in flames, A could just retreat further back, whether towards the entrance or an opening made by Amaterasu or himself. I can't see Sasuke actually hitting A but he could push him back, however this would take a good amount of chakra to do so, in my opinion.
    I hope you people are aware this is the Sasuke Raikage has to deal with now:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/10
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/11

    No bleeding eyes, no headache, no signs of strain... he just casually stands there and his Susanoo uses Amaterasu for him. Setting the whole room on fire until Raikage has nowhere to escape is a piece of cake for EMS Sasuke... he can start with a little campfire caused by his Magatama and spread it everywhere with his Enton.

    Chakra drain? Probably less then 10% of what he has.
    Last edited by LnDRash; October 08, 2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  3. #77
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    So you are comparing to distinct diferent jutsus.. 1 summons the entire frog and the other summons the esophagus of a grog inside a bulding, great...

    Its one thing to manipulate the flash of a toad and another to somehow transform matter from 1 form to another... The frog's belly is teleported inside the bulding, inside the room and it does not become the walls.
    Hell its not even completly covered, you can see windos in there:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/148/4

    You can even see here the wall and then on it the flesh:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/148/9

    Middle panel.
    2 different jutsus that does the same thing.
    Its like saying Gokyakuu, the great Fireball, is completely different from Hosenka, the fire projectiles.
    Both uses fire, they are simply styled differently.
    The jutsu Jiraiya used against Itachi and Kisame transformed the house into a toad, the jutsu Jiraiya used to trap the fodders transformed a toad into a house.

    As for the wall, see again how you see no wall here, only flesh smoothly burned.
    You don't see an interruption on the wall of flesh.

    Quote Quote:
    Actualy yes, definition of the word:
    My bad, it was my misconception of the word
    What I meant is that the wall wasn't immune to fire, only resistant to it.
    As I already made the example with the acid, being resistant doesn't mean being immune, and since the wall of flesh wasn't immune to fire it doesn't mean that that wall of flesh > earth

    Quote Quote:
    Anyway its not stated that the flesh is fireproof or fire-resistant. Its just a frog that can spit fire. Nothing that i know is really immune to heat, you just need enough of it. Anything has a melting point. So its just fire-resistant anyway you look at it.
    By fireproof i meant high tolerance to heat/fire. If you take whatever material and you heat it to something like the core of a star.. Yeah its by, by. Hell there is nothing that i know that can take the surfece of the Sun... The only thing that would not be instantly vaporized is the basic stuff of matter, protons, electrons, neutrons, elements etc. (and yes i even googled for it to make sure).
    Again, Amaterasu doesn't burn at that temperature, its not even close.
    You see here neither Sasuke nor Itachi being affected by the heat while being near it.
    If Amaterasu burned at, say, 5000° Celsius ( which is the "coldest" temperature on the sun ) their body would evaporate by being that close

    Quote Quote:
    No, focused is when the user is focusing on it, if not there is no diference then what hit Karin. The flames are flames. Considering i even have the databook and Amaterasu did show insane burning power... Yeah. So even if its the surfece of the sun when focused and the sand is not going to hold... Just what i said above about "just enough heat" and no material is immune to it.
    ^ Already replied, and, as I already pointed it out, Gaara's sand withstood Amaterasu just fine

    Quote Quote:
    Err even if he has to shoot an arrow that has flames on it and... Yeah... Itachi used something like that to help Bee and Naruto blow the CT core that was up in the sky. Its the same sharingan tomoe type of projectile.
    Also it does not need to get into orbit or whatever to do its magic. Heat automaticly rises man. All he needs is to shoot it up and then the heat emanating from it is going to keep going up. To add would be added whatever its on the ground.
    The CT core was suspended what, 100 meters in the air?
    Sasuke shot his dragons in the atmosphere, pretty different. Also heat rises, true, yet Sasuke doesn't have a portable forest ignited with Amaterasu, and still needs to shoot dragons made of fire in the atmosphere to heat it.
    Until you can prove that those projectiles have that reach and that they would ignite the atmosphere I'm afraid Sasuke can't use Kirin with that.

    Quote Quote:
    Amaterasu>Dragons. Also i am not even sure how it empowers you. How much did it add?
    Go back and read how much CS2 changed the Sound Five, and then you have an idea on how much it increases the power.
    Jirobou claimed his strenght increased tenfold

    Quote Quote:
    And i said web> earth where? I asked if that is what you where refering to as you sure as hell did not provided the links to what you where refering...

    Also it DID burn trough a wall.
    No, you said that Amaterasu got through no problem hitting webs, to prove how Amaterasu can destroy things.
    Also no, it didn't.

    Quote Quote:
    He did not block A, he grabed his body by his entire(well almost) body mass. I am sure his but and back where not cutting... Just the leg drop, the tip of it.
    Also i seriously hope you where not tring to pass as Raikage leg drop can provide more penetrating power then a full armoured Susano with an Amaterasu spear...
    If Gaara did not create the sand statue in part 1 Kimimaro's spear would have killed him.

    Now Gaara still needs to mix his chakra with the sand to use it man... Then that country is not sand country... Its snow and shit. So no sand for him, just frozen earth.
    Considering he has an Armour, made of lightning, which empowers every blow he uses yes, I very much so believe that legdrop had high penetrative powers.
    An arrow by Susano'o can be redirected, as Danzou showed.

    Quote Quote:
    So emm.. Itachi wanted to kill Sasuke right? That event is IRRELEVANT. As you have no evidence Itachi actualy wanted to burn Sasuke down to nothing... I on the other hand have manga evidence that Itachi was just doing his best, working on a plan to make Sasuke drop from exhausting to remove Orochimaru from him.
    I actualy find it funny you try to pass that event as valid... Also Sasuke would have known Amaterasu? HOW THE BLOODY HELL? Did he got to see it? LIKE EVER?
    Heh but if you belive Hebi Sasuke is anywhere close to full speed Raikage you can be my gues and belive that as Raikage whent full speed to dodge.

    Its not really relevant as last time i cheked this was Sasuke and not Itachi. Sasuke clearly showed that he can cast it at insane speeds. Raikage powered up to max to dodge.
    I don't have proof Itachi wanted to burn Sasuke?
    Guess what he did here? Itachi predicted Sasuke had a way to deal with Amaterasu, thus he had no problems in hitting him with it, apparently.
    Also lol at Sasuke not knowing what Amaterasu is, when he stated that Kirin was a jutsu very like Amaterasu.
    And he knew Tsukuyomi pretty well.

    Amaterasu is Amaterasu, never it was stated that Sasuke was better at it in strenght, the only difference is that Sasuke can control Amaterasu's flames and can create a sword and projectiles made of it, just like Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is a normal genjutsu while Itachi's Tsukuyomi can control space and time.
    The very core of the jutsu, as in creating flames from the eye, is the same.

    EDIT: also you don't want to discuss on how Itachi's Amaterasu is different from Sasuke's, since it was Itachi's one that burned the belly of the toad, not Sasuke's.
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; October 08, 2012 at 08:06 AM.

  4. #78
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Pay attention:
    in the page I posted, Sasuke was looking directly at A, making a handsign, after which A said the Sharingan is no match for him.
    Please, are you telling me that Sasuke was trying to genjutsu A from behind? As if A has eyes behind his back?

    He was preparing to genjutsu Shi. Learn to read the manga. Seriously.


    Quote Quote:
    Do we know the full scope of control?
    Just because Amaterasu can be controlled ( its not controlled by Enton, Enton is the name of Amaterasu's "element" ) doesn't mean it can do everything, at enormous speed.
    Lolzz, so Amaterasu boomerangs would suddenly become slow just because they are controlled by Enton?

    Quote Quote:
    The best degree of control Sasuke showed was forming a shield in front of him
    Correction: That was the best degree of control Sasuke had. You are assuming that Sasuke's control of Amaterasu is stagnant, when in fact the manga has shown that his control of Amaterasu has been improving continuously - when he fought Bee the only control he has over Amaterasu was to extinguish it, but when he fought A he could already shape the flames into spikes etc, and then when he fought Zetsu he could already launch the Amaterasu flames as projectiles.

    His degree of control over Amaterasu is constantly improving. Hence your assertion that Sasuke's control of Amaterasu would be limited to forming shields just like 10 chapters ago is a gigantic bag of ignorance.

    Quote Quote:
    As for the elements, do get your facts straight:
    Fire doesn't boost Lighting, you got it all wrong. Sasuke uses the fire dragons to create a natural phenomenon by heating the atmosphere and creating thundercould
    Flames can be used to create lightning. All he needs to do is recreate the same effect on a smaller scale.

    Quote Quote:
    It still doesn't change the fact that Sasuke can't coat his Susano'o sword with Lightning, the only reason he can create an Amaterasu sword is because, just like Susano'o, Amaterasu spurs from him eyes.
    Who said so? Kishi? Where?

    Quote Quote:
    If Sasuke was capable of coating his Susano'o weapons with Lightning, then why wouldn't he done it before?
    That's like asking why didn't Naruto use Rasenshuriken in chapter 1.

    ---------- Post added at 06:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Considering he has an Armour, made of lightning, which empowers every blow he uses yes, I very much so believe that legdrop had high penetrative powers.
    An arrow by Susano'o can be redirected, as Danzou showed.
    Lol your 'belief' is as convincing as the idea that the Earth is flat.

    A's lightning armor is shitty when it comes to increasing offensive power. He couldn't even reach Sasuke who was just protected by an incomplete, half-assed, skeletal frame. All he did was waste away his arm.

    And when it comes to defensive power, the lightning armor is still shit, since it got penetrated by a low-ranking Chidori. Sasuke learnt that when he was like 12?

  5. #79
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Please, are you telling me that Sasuke was trying to genjutsu A from behind? As if A has eyes behind his back?

    He was preparing to genjutsu Shi. Learn to read the manga. Seriously.
    I guess he was on the wall, looking at A because he was secretely jealous of his abs, and was makind a handseal because... Well... He looks prettier that way

    Quote Quote:
    Lolzz, so Amaterasu boomerangs would suddenly become slow just because they are controlled by Enton?
    When Amaterasu boomerangs are showed to be ultrafast, mind you?
    When Amaterasu manipulation was showed to be ultrafast?

    Quote Quote:
    Correction: That was the best degree of control Sasuke had. You are assuming that Sasuke's control of Amaterasu is stagnant, when in fact the manga has shown that his control of Amaterasu has been improving continuously - when he fought Bee the only control he has over Amaterasu was to extinguish it, but when he fought A he could already shape the flames into spikes etc, and then when he fought Zetsu he could already launch the Amaterasu flames as projectiles.

    His degree of control over Amaterasu is constantly improving. Hence your assertion that Sasuke's control of Amaterasu would be limited to forming shields just like 10 chapters ago is a gigantic bag of ignorance.
    Claiming that Sasuke's affinity with Amaterasu is increasing isn't nearly the same thing as claiming he can do shit with it that wasn't showed nor hinted in the manga, treating it as proof.
    Do show Sasuke doing what you claimed, manga panel, not fanfiction.
    It isn't even hinted that Sasuke can redirect those projectiles, by what degree, with what speed, strenght or whatever, its your story, in your head, supported by nothing

    Quote Quote:
    Flames can be used to create lightning. All he needs to do is recreate the same effect on a smaller scale.
    So?
    Doesn't mean that fire can increase lightning, Kirin isn't stronger than a normal thunder in the first place, Sasuke simply takes control of it

    Quote Quote:
    Who said so? Kishi? Where?
    By that logic, one can make up all kind of things because Kishi didn't say so.
    I can claim that Kakashi can use every jutsu of his elements because, well, he knows 1000 jutsus and Kishi never said he can't use a jutsu


    I can also say Naruto can use every kind of Fuuton because he has the elements and Kishi never said Naruto didn't learn those from somewhere


    Again when debating in the arena one uses facts, panels, not fanfiction made in someone's mind

    ---------- Post added at 07:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Lol your 'belief' is as convincing as the idea that the Earth is flat.

    A's lightning armor is shitty when it comes to increasing offensive power. He couldn't even reach Sasuke who was just protected by an incomplete, half-assed, skeletal frame. All he did was waste away his arm.

    And when it comes to defensive power, the lightning armor is still shit, since it got penetrated by a low-ranking Chidori. Sasuke learnt that when he was like 12?
    Yeah, total shit.
    Shame the only way Sasuke can survive that shitty character is hiding behind Susano'o and hoping one of his tricks can work, if we want to make A as out of character as you make Sasuke to be he can simply dodge whatever Sasuke throws at him until Sasuke drops dead by chakra usage, he covers the floor with Amaterasu? No problem, the roof it is

    Also I clearly forgot Raikage punching a hole through Juugo.
    Just like I forgot Raikage hitting Sasuke in the neck despite Susano'o, and Gaara saving Sasuke's butt from a double kill

  6. #80
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    @Uchiha_Blood

    Quote Quote:
    2 different jutsus that does the same thing.
    Its like saying Gokyakuu, the great Fireball, is completely different from Hosenka, the fire projectiles.
    Both uses fire, they are simply styled differently.
    The jutsu Jiraiya used against Itachi and Kisame transformed the house into a toad, the jutsu Jiraiya used to trap the fodders transformed a toad into a house.
    Dude one is a summoning tech and that is it. The other is summoning and then using your chakra to manipulate the summon. They are COMPLETLY diferent. Its like comparing chakra to shape manipulation.
    The only part this 2 have in common is the ability to shape the flesh of the toad.
    Databook:
    Spoiler show


    The frog has the ability to change its flesh to replicate the inside of a bar of whatever.
    Chaging the frog's body is 1 thing. Changing the matter that has nothing to do with the body of a frog that can't even do what the store frog can is completly another thing.

    Seriously do you know what Kuchiyose is and what it does?
    1 is a FROG that has the ability to turn into a shop with JMan's chakra and the other summoning is a jutsu that teleports there the inside of the frog's belly. It does NOT transforms the house into a frog for God's sake.

    Databook:

    Spoiler show


    This jutsu does not transforms anything and defenetly not a house into a frog. It just summons the bloody esophagus there. Its just an organ.

    I am seriously done with this. Belive what you whant.

    Quote Quote:
    Again, Amaterasu doesn't burn at that temperature, its not even close.
    You see here neither Sasuke nor Itachi being affected by the heat while being near it.
    If Amaterasu burned at, say, 5000° Celsius ( which is the "coldest" temperature on the sun ) their body would evaporate by being that close
    It does not work like that. Its still a manga. Side effects... are side effects.. Before you start with the double standards or whatever i can support this.
    JMan has a jutsu that burns at thousands of degrees, Senpō: Goemon... And this is what? Close to his face and he is fine? Why? Manga that is why.
    Databook on this as evidence:

    Spoiler show


    You are defenetly need to provide more if you whant to disprove this, at least in my eyes.
    As for the rest they are all free to belive what they whant.

    Quote Quote:
    ^ Already replied, and, as I already pointed it out, Gaara's sand withstood Amaterasu just fine
    Not focused one, but i am sure we are not going anywhere with this. Something burning at the Sun's surfece would evaporate(melt or whatever) his sand like nothing.

    Quote Quote:
    The CT core was suspended what, 100 meters in the air?
    Sasuke shot his dragons in the atmosphere, pretty different. Also heat rises, true, yet Sasuke doesn't have a portable forest ignited with Amaterasu, and still needs to shoot dragons made of fire in the atmosphere to heat it.
    Until you can prove that those projectiles have that reach and that they would ignite the atmosphere I'm afraid Sasuke can't use Kirin with that.
    He does have in his Susano flametrower mode. Just ignite everything there. Set the entire house on fire if need be. Those dragons defenetly don't have that much heat. Just trow multiple Amaterasu arrows and whatever up in the sky. Sasuke used what? 3 fireballs (or was it 4). Let's say he ends up trowing 12 arrows in the sky or 12 discs things. Then the fire would not go away compared to the fireballs that would disipate after some time. His fire would keep burning sending heat up.

    Quote Quote:
    Go back and read how much CS2 changed the Sound Five, and then you have an idea on how much it increases the power.
    Jirobou claimed his strenght increased tenfold
    Yes it changes your body, i already know that. I was refering to amping the jutsu up.

    Quote Quote:
    No, you said that Amaterasu got through no problem hitting webs, to prove how Amaterasu can destroy things.
    Also no, it didn't.
    Yes i did say it was able to brake trough the web but i made no corelation from the web to the sand or ground. I asked if that is what you where refering to and that it was able to burn trough it like nothing.

    Quote Quote:
    Considering he has an Armour, made of lightning, which empowers every blow he uses yes, I very much so believe that legdrop had high penetrative powers.
    An arrow by Susano'o can be redirected, as Danzou showed.
    Of course it had penetrating power and power in general. I said compared to Susano using that big Amaterasu spear. Gaara did not had to exacly fight off the piercing power considering how he grabed Raikage.

    I am aware what Danzo states here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/478/10
    But that is just wrong if you think about it. What he did there is grow a tree to push HIMSELF out of the way. The tree was NOT in front of Danzo to move the arrow before it got to Danzo. Look here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/478/9
    Its in his face. So what exacly move? He moved himself.

    Not to say an arrow can't be redirecte but what Danzo did there... It does not make much sense to me if we go with what he said.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't have proof Itachi wanted to burn Sasuke?
    Guess what he did here? Itachi predicted Sasuke had a way to deal with Amaterasu, thus he had no problems in hitting him with it, apparently.
    Also lol at Sasuke not knowing what Amaterasu is, when he stated that Kirin was a jutsu very like Amaterasu.
    And he knew Tsukuyomi pretty well.
    He did wanted that but he also wanted for him to have time to spit himself out. Itachi even stopped the flames before burning his torso and head.
    Sasuke said that only AFTER he got to see Amaterasu in action from Itachi.
    Again you can have:
    a) For whatever reason that was shoot slower.
    b)Sasuke can do it faster as Raikage speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hebi Sasuke's.

    Quote Quote:
    EDIT: also you don't want to discuss on how Itachi's Amaterasu is different from Sasuke's, since it was Itachi's one that burned the belly of the toad, not Sasuke's.
    That is diferent, we where arguing how fast one can use said Amaterasu. Sasuke has BETTER eyes an they where just about at 100%. Itachi was having vision problems and in pain and close to death.
    Itachi's vision:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/389/8
    Then when he covers one eye:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/389/9

    When he shoot Amaterasu the eye focusing after Sasuke would be the one working better and considering the pain that ends up doing... He probably ended with 2 bad eyes tring to focus.

    Look even here. Considerin the speed diference from him and Raikage, Sasuke should not be able to move to the left:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/3
    Raikage needed INSAINE speed to do so.

    That is why i said you can't really compare. Sasuke clearly showed to be able to do BETTER.

    Still this arguing is irrelevant as Sasuke woukd murder stomp Gaara here. HE can win and easy even with NO SUSANO or AMATERASU.
    Gaara has a big handicap here:
    1-He can't get more sand as the floor is solid rock from the building and even if we asume he can eventualy dig his way trough its going to be to late. So Gaara would be working with this much sand:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/464/13
    2- He is inside a close space. He can't keep distance at all. He can't fly up or back.

    What does this means? Sasuke using his speed would ignore completly the sand and run circles around Gaara like in part 1. Yes his sand is probably faster but Sasuke has a HUGE speed boost from part 1 to part 2. He is going to run circles and then Chidori Gaara like nothing or raiton spear him in half. The only thing Gaara can do (like in part 1) is go bubble mode but that can be penetrated easy by Sasuke's raiton... Gaara can't even follow Sasuke as that would mean he is looking at Sasuke and that means he is down on the ground drooling and incapacitated.

    Giving Sasuke Susano is just overkill. He just casualy walks to where Gaara is and using his spear impales Gaara trough the sand. This time Gaara does not have his ultimate defence statue and Amoured Susano with Amaterasu spear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimimaro with his spear bone...

    Now if this was Sasuke vs Gaara in open space in the sand place... Yeah really good fight but considering the handicap Gaara has its not a fight.

    VS Raikage just set the entire place on fire so he does not have where to run. Kirin is just an easy win but using Susano to set the place on fire in a closed room and Raikage is just about dead. He would have nowhere to run or as he would get Amaterasu on him.

    Tsuck again is limited because its inside a room and Sasuke can snipe him faster then Tsuck can use Jinton (handseals and he is an old man). Sasuke can Chidori him faster then he can do seals. No need to use Amateraus even. The old man is not a speedster.

    Mei? LOL Irrelevant.

    Tsunade? Same thing.

    Sasuke has this in the bag.
    Last edited by xXan; October 08, 2012 at 09:04 AM.

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  8. #81
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    I guess he was on the wall, looking at A because he was secretely jealous of his abs, and was makind a handseal because... Well... He looks prettier that way
    Now you are suggesting that Sasuke was making a hand seal to use genjutsu?

    Sharingan-based genjutsus do not require hand seals. Can your credibility go any lower?


    Quote Quote:
    When Amaterasu boomerangs are showed to be ultrafast, mind you?
    When Amaterasu manipulation was showed to be ultrafast?
    Oh I guess they are ultra slow then?

    Quote Quote:
    Claiming that Sasuke's affinity with Amaterasu is increasing isn't nearly the same thing as claiming he can do shit with it that wasn't showed nor hinted in the manga, treating it as proof.
    Sasuke's control over the Amaterasu flames is increasing, whether you acknowledge it or not.

    Your assumption that Sasuke's control over Amaterasu would stay stagnant is as ridiculous as saying that Naruto's control over Rasengan will never improve anymore.

    Quote Quote:
    Do show Sasuke doing what you claimed, manga panel, not fanfiction.
    It isn't even hinted that Sasuke can redirect those projectiles, by what degree, with what speed, strenght or whatever, its your story, in your head, supported by nothing
    It's a fantasy fight. Manga panel my foot.

    The fact that I can come up with so many new strategies with Sasuke's existing combination of abilities shows that the Kages will never stand a chance.

    The later into the future they fight, the bigger the gap between Sasuke's chance of winning and theirs.

    Quote Quote:
    So?
    Doesn't mean that fire can increase lightning, Kirin isn't stronger than a normal thunder in the first place, Sasuke simply takes control of it
    Itachi clearly said that Sasuke was using the surrounding Amaterasu to increase the power of Kirin. Reread the manga.


    Quote Quote:
    By that logic, one can make up all kind of things because Kishi didn't say so.
    I can claim that Kakashi can use every jutsu of his elements because, well, he knows 1000 jutsus and Kishi never said he can't use a jutsu
    You can try if you want, only that it would be a laughing stock.

    There's a difference betwen claiming that Sasuke would invent a new jutsu and claiming that Tsunade can beat Madara. Both are speculations, but the first one is a logical one, while the second one is BS.
    Last edited by Ryr; October 08, 2012 at 09:06 AM.

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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Now you are suggesting that Sasuke was making a hand seal to use genjutsu?

    Sharingan-based genjutsus do not require hand seals. Can your credibility go any lower?
    Guess what Itachi is doing here?
    Handseal to shoot Amaterasu, which doesn't require handseals.

    Handseals are made to focus chakra

    And you still didn't explain why he was looking at Raikage or why he was on the wall facing him, when later, when he one-shotted Shi, he was on a totally different position

    Quote Quote:
    Oh I guess they are ultra slow then?
    We don't know how fast Enton is, considering it was showed not to be ultrafast one can assume it isn't unavoidable

    Quote Quote:
    Sasuke's control over the Amaterasu flames is increasing, whether you acknowledge it or not.

    Your assumption that Sasuke's control over Amaterasu would stay stagnant is as ridiculous as saying that Naruto's control over Rasengan will never improve anymore.
    Never said Sasuke's control is stagnant, I said that your degree of control is simply ridiculous, since he was never hinted at being at that level.
    Nor he showed it

    Quote Quote:
    It's a fantasy fight. Manga panel my foot.

    The fact that I can come up with so many new strategies with Sasuke's existing combination of abilities shows that the Kages will never stand a chance.

    The later into the future they fight, the bigger the gap between Sasuke's chance of winning and theirs.
    I don't know if you are a troll or if you really believe in what you wrote, regardless you, good sir, just made my day

    What you wrote is ok in a rpg made by you, where you create the rules, or in a fanfiction that you write.
    Here, in the arena, serious debaters uses feats, statements in the manga to back up what they write.
    Assumptions are ok until they are believable and have a bit of logic behind them, what you wrote is neither logical nor has any validity behind them. You are basically creating a Sasuke that can do whatever you want him to do

    Quote Quote:
    Itachi clearly said that Sasuke was using the surrounding Amaterasu to increase the power of Kirin. Reread the manga.
    Maybe its you who need to reread the manga good sir, its not Itachi, its Zetsu, and its not for powering up Kirin, but only to make it appear faster as he needed heat to warm the atmosphere, and a forest on fire surely increased the heat rising to the atmosphere



    Quote Quote:
    You can try if you want, only that it would be a laughing stock.

    There's a difference betwen claiming that Sasuke would invent a new jutsu and claiming that Tsunade can beat Madara. Both are speculations, but the first one is a logical one, while the second one is BS.
    Naw, you are doing such a fine job yourself, I don't want to steal the spotlight from you

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  11. #83
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    @Uchiha_Blood

    Man having to answer to all of us must be really draining you lol(more then one topic to:P)l.

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    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    Dude one is a summoning tech and that is it. The other is summoning and then using your chakra to manipulate the summon. They are COMPLETLY diferent. Its like comparing chakra to shape manipulation.
    The only part this 2 have in common is the ability to shape the flesh of the toad.
    Databook:
    Spoiler show


    The frog has the ability to change its flesh to replicate the inside of a bar of whatever.
    Chaging the frog's body is 1 thing. Changing the matter that has nothing to do with the body of a frog that can't even do what the store frog can is completly another thing.

    Seriously do you know what Kuchiyose is and what it does?
    1 is a FROG that has the ability to turn into a shop with JMan's chakra and the other summoning is a jutsu that teleports there the inside of the frog's belly. It does NOT transforms the house into a frog for God's sake.

    Databook:

    Spoiler show


    This jutsu does not transforms anything and defenetly not a house into a frog. It just summons the bloody esophagus there. Its just an organ.

    I am seriously done with this. Belive what you whant.
    Reread what you posted, nowhere its said that the esophagus enclose the envrioment and not substitute it entirely.

    We can agree to disagree then

    Quote Quote:
    It does not work like that. Its still a manga. Side effects... are side effects.. Before you start with the double standards or whatever i can support this.
    JMan has a jutsu that burns at thousands of degrees, Senpō: Goemon... And this is what? Close to his face and he is fine? Why? Manga that is why.
    Databook on this as evidence:

    Spoiler show


    You are defenetly need to provide more if you whant to disprove this, at least in my eyes.
    As for the rest they are all free to belive what they whant.
    Databooks aren't reliable for those informations, those are hyperboles, never it is hinted that Jiraiya's Rasengan can tore through a mountain, for example.

    Quote Quote:
    Not focused one, but i am sure we are not going anywhere with this. Something burning at the Sun's surfece would evaporate(melt or whatever) his sand like nothing.
    ^ See above, Amaterasu burning at the same temperature as the sun is an hyperbole.
    If that was the case, everytime Amaterasu would impact on something and burn, everything around it would be dryed and destroyed

    Quote Quote:
    He does have in his Susano flametrower mode. Just ignite everything there. Set the entire house on fire if need be. Those dragons defenetly don't have that much heat. Just trow multiple Amaterasu arrows and whatever up in the sky. Sasuke used what? 3 fireballs (or was it 4). Let's say he ends up trowing 12 arrows in the sky or 12 discs things. Then the fire would not go away compared to the fireballs that would disipate after some time. His fire would keep burning sending heat up.
    Point is, we don't know if those projectiles or the arrows can travel that distance, if they could Sasuke would use Kirin more frequently.
    If he bothered to use those dragons while in CS2 and never used Kirin anymore there is a reason.

    And should he be able to set it up as easily, he should've used it instead of Amaterasu, which consumed way more chakra and reduced his eyesight.
    We know Sasuke wasn't in the right state of mind, but he wasn't stupid

    Quote Quote:
    Yes it changes your body, i already know that. I was refering to amping the jutsu up.
    Sakon and Ukon could regenerate entire parts of their body while in CS2.
    Kidomaru's arrows incredibly increased in power.
    Jirobou's strenght and taijutsu increased incredibly.
    Tayuya's genjutsu were apparently better.
    Kimimaro tore through Gaara's sand like nothing while before he had to use CS1 to survive a normal Sand Coffin.
    Sasuke's Chidori against Naruto was way stronger than normal since it withstood a Kyuubi-empowered one.

    Its safe to assume CS2 increase was massive

    Quote Quote:
    Of course it had penetrating power and power in general. I said compared to Susano using that big Amaterasu spear. Gaara did not had to exacly fight off the piercing power considering how he grabed Raikage.

    I am aware what Danzo states here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/478/10
    But that is just wrong if you think about it. What he did there is grow a tree to push HIMSELF out of the way. The tree was NOT in front of Danzo to move the arrow before it got to Danzo. Look here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/478/9
    Its in his face. So what exacly move? He moved himself.

    Not to say an arrow can't be redirecte but what Danzo did there... It does not make much sense to me if we go with what he said.
    Gaara can both use sand fast enough to redirect it, and can also use sand to move his body like he did to Madara.

    As for penetrative power, of course its not comparable to a Susano'o spear, yet if that sand could withstood Raikage's Raiton Armour and Amaterasu's flames, it just shows it isn't easily surpassed.

    Quote Quote:
    He did wanted that but he also wanted for him to have time to spit himself out. Itachi even stopped the flames before burning his torso and head.
    Sasuke said that only AFTER he got to see Amaterasu in action from Itachi.
    Again you can have:
    a) For whatever reason that was shoot slower.
    b)Sasuke can do it faster as Raikage speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hebi Sasuke's.
    What I have is that Amaterasu can be dodged if you are in the scope of Hebi Sasuke and Raikage's speed, with Raikage being the speed for optimal dodge and Hebi Sasuke the speed for a near dodge.
    And of course you have to have intel on the jutsu, if you don't know Amaterasu can be shot by the eye and is focused on where the eye looks, you are screwed

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    Man having to answer to all of us must be really draining you lol(more then one topic to:P)l.
    You have no idea lol.
    That's why I can't really bring myself to answer the last wall of text you wrote, too long
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; October 08, 2012 at 09:36 AM.

  13. #85
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Guess what Itachi is doing here?
    Handseal to shoot Amaterasu, which doesn't require handseals. Handseals are made to focus chakra
    I bet next you'll argue that Sasuke made hand seals just to use Amaterasu.

    Quote Quote:
    And you still didn't explain why he was looking at Raikage or why he was on the wall facing him, when later, when he one-shotted Shi, he was on a totally different position
    Since when does looking at someone means you are going to genjutsu him? All we know is that Sasuke genjutsu-ed Shi. He was not targeting A at that time.

    Lolzz. You are arguing that Sasuke couldn't genjutsu A when Sasuke has not even tried.

    Quote Quote:
    We don't know how fast Enton is, considering it was showed not to be ultrafast one can assume it isn't unavoidable
    When was it shown to not be 'ultra-fast'? What is 'ultra-fast' in the first place? You are just making up your own definition.

    Quote Quote:
    Never said Sasuke's control is stagnant, I said that your degree of control is simply ridiculous, since he was never hinted at being at that level.
    His control over the flames of Amaterasu has been improving and will continue to improve. That's the logical continuation of the trend of his character.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't know if you are a troll or if you really believe in what you wrote, regardless you, good sir, just made my day
    I am enjoying every bit of these debates. Let's continue.

    Quote Quote:
    Here, in the arena, serious debaters uses feats, statements in the manga to back up what they write.

    So, according to you, assuming that one of the major characters in the Narutoverse who has been shown to be incredibly creative as being stagnant in his control over one of his fundamental abilities is considered 'serious'?


    Quote Quote:
    Assumptions are ok until they are believable and have a bit of logic behind them, what you wrote is neither logical nor has any validity behind them. You are basically creating a Sasuke that can do whatever you want him to do
    My arguments are all extensions of the current manga reality. Control over Amaterasu is already a given fact. I simply extends it a bit into an improvement.

    It's a lot more logical than your fundamental argument that the best Sasuke could do with his Amaterasu is 'to make shields', when Sasuke has been shown to never be a stagnant character when it comes to techniques.


    Quote Quote:
    Maybe its you who need to reread the manga good sir, its not Itachi, its Zetsu, and its not for powering up Kirin, but only to make it appear faster as he needed heat to warm the atmosphere, and a forest on fire surely increased the heat rising to the atmosphere

    Right, so the Amaterasu flames were there to make the Kirin 'appear faster'.

    I'll just let you own yourself there.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    @xxan

    Because uchiha blood is enough to counter all of your so called opinion.

    And he done a very good job. And the fact that he doesn`t need any assumption/speculation to counter your arguments. Proof vs opinion.

    All of sasukes fans are overstimating him too much. Giving him a power that doesn`t exist in the manga.

    Saying that mei is useless to sasuke when sasuke himself almost got beaten by mei in the manga.

    Saying that sasuke can snipe oonoki whereas in the manga himself, sasuke who got replenish his chakra through zetsu cant do anything from being rape by oonoki. And without obito, sasuke is already gone and his dead in molecular level.

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  16. #87
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    @xxan

    Because uchiha blood is enough to counter all of your so called opinion.
    All he did was embarrassing himself.

    Quote Quote:
    And he done a very good job. And the fact that he doesn`t need any assumption/speculation to counter your arguments. Proof vs opinion.
    Proof? He assumed that Sasuke's abilities would not improve. It would be really interesting for me to wait for Sasuke's next fight just to see how radical his improvements would be.

    Quote Quote:
    All of sasukes fans are overstimating him too much. Giving him a power that doesn`t exist in the manga.
    No, it's people like you who overestimates the Kages. One-trick ponies who are neither smart nor have any room for improvement.

    Quote Quote:
    Saying that mei is useless to sasuke when sasuke himself almost got beaten by mei in the manga.
    I'll say it again, if Mei fights the current Sasuke, she'll get one-shotted from Amaterasu boomerang. What can she do other than to accept her own incompetence?

    Quote Quote:
    Saying that sasuke can snipe oonoki whereas in the manga himself, sasuke who got replenish his chakra through zetsu cant do anything from being rape by oonoki. And without obito, sasuke is already gone and his dead in molecular level.
    Sasuke would be doing much better against the Kages now, thanks to his recent but significant improvements. The Kages are still the same, without any growth. As a result, he would have a lot more chakra when he reaches Onoki.

  17. #88
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Since when does looking at someone means you are going to genjutsu him? All we know is that Sasuke genjutsu-ed Shi. He was not targeting A at that time.

    Lolzz. You are arguing that Sasuke couldn't genjutsu A when Sasuke has not even tried.
    You still haven't explained why Sasuke was looking at A making a handseal.
    Answer this good fellow

    Quote Quote:
    When was it shown to not be 'ultra-fast'? What is 'ultra-fast' in the first place? You are just making up your own definition.
    When he used Enton to produce a jutsu.
    The barrier wasn't ultra fast, the Amaterasu projectiles weren't ultrafast.

    Trust me, I'm not the one that is making up things

    Quote Quote:
    His control over the flames of Amaterasu has been improving and will continue to improve. That's the logical continuation of the trend of his character.
    Which doesn't mean he will obtain the degree of control you claim he already has.

    Quote Quote:

    So, according to you, assuming that one of the major characters in the Narutoverse who has been shown to be incredibly creative as being stagnant in his control over one of his fundamental abilities is considered 'serious'?
    Don't try to backpeddle, you didn't merely say that Sasuke's control improved, you said that he could coat his Susano'o sword with lighting and could control his Amaterasu projectiles similary as Senbonzakura, taking Raikage by all sides at high speed.

    Quote Quote:
    My arguments are all extensions of the current manga reality. Control over Amaterasu is already a given fact. I simply extends it a bit into an improvement.

    It's a lot more logical than your fundamental argument that the best Sasuke could do with his Amaterasu is 'to make shields', when Sasuke has been shown to never be a stagnant character when it comes to techniques.
    Current manga reality never hinted, nor showed at anything you wrote, which is your Sasuke, and not canon Sasuke.

    Again if you are so confidend, post manga panels of Sasuke coathing a Susano'o weapon in lightning or of Sasuke redirecting his Magatama

    Quote Quote:

    Right, so the Amaterasu flames were there to make the Kirin 'appear faster'.

    I'll just let you own yourself there.
    Considering he needed a heated atmosphere to bring forth Kirin, yes, this is what happened.
    But please, by all means do provide a better reason, since your "Fire was used to power up Kirin" in false.
    Kirin is a normal thunder that Sasuke takes control of, unless you believe Sasuke can create Kirin with his own chakra

    ---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    @xxan

    Because uchiha blood is enough to counter all of your so called opinion.

    And he done a very good job. And the fact that he doesn`t need any assumption/speculation to counter your arguments. Proof vs opinion.

    All of sasukes fans are overstimating him too much. Giving him a power that doesn`t exist in the manga.

    Saying that mei is useless to sasuke when sasuke himself almost got beaten by mei in the manga.

    Saying that sasuke can snipe oonoki whereas in the manga himself, sasuke who got replenish his chakra through zetsu cant do anything from being rape by oonoki. And without obito, sasuke is already gone and his dead in molecular level.
    Thank you buddy, if I were you I'd copy/paste this topic to everyone which gangbanded you on the Minato vs A topic showing what it means to come up with things out of nowhere

    I would demand excuses too, since I don't see all the indignant ones there being indignant here

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  19. #89
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    You still haven't explained why Sasuke was looking at A making a handseal.
    Answer this good fellow
    Lol can you assume that Obama is torturing kittens at night just because you have no f*cking idea what he does every night?

    Similarly, you have no idea what Sasuke was planning at that moment, so obviously he was casting a genjutsu at A!!!

    Logic at its worst frankly.

    Quote Quote:
    When he used Enton to produce a jutsu.
    The barrier wasn't ultra fast, the Amaterasu projectiles weren't ultrafast.
    The barrier was fast enough to materialize before A can hit him, so that when A did hit him, he waste away his arm.

    Quote Quote:
    Which doesn't mean he will obtain the degree of control you claim he already has.
    I claim that he will eventually in the future. You claim that the best he would be in the future is the same as what he had in the past.

    The more we go into the future, the more I will win.

    Quote Quote:
    Don't try to backpeddle, you didn't merely say that Sasuke's control improved, you said that he could coat his Susano'o sword with lighting and could control his Amaterasu projectiles similary as Senbonzakura, taking Raikage by all sides at high speed.
    I foresee him doing this if he fights Gaara. He already did something similar when he crushed Deidara.

    It's a fantasy fight. You are supposed to think of a possible way for Gaara to beat my strategy.

    The fact that you couldn't means that my strategy in this particular fantasy fight is unbeatable using Gaara's limited arsenal.


    Quote Quote:
    Considering he needed a heated atmosphere to bring forth Kirin, yes, this is what happened.
    But please, by all means do provide a better reason, since your "Fire was used to power up Kirin" in false.
    Kirin is a normal thunder that Sasuke takes control of, unless you believe Sasuke can create Kirin with his own chakra

    Do you even make any sense here? The heated atmosphere is what creates and empowers Kirin. The more heat there is, the stronger Kirin would become.

    And guess what produces a lot of heat? Ama-f*cking-terasu.
    Last edited by Ryr; October 08, 2012 at 10:23 AM.

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    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    Lol can you assume that Obama is torturing kittens at night just because you have no f*cking idea what he does every night?

    Similarly, you have no idea what Sasuke was planning at that moment, so obviously he was casting a genjutsu at A!!!

    Logic at its worst frankly.
    Don't try to lift the burden of answering by changing subject, I asked you, since you are oh so certain what I said is shit, what was Sasuke doing, making a handseal ( thus concentrating chakra ) and looking directly at A?
    After which A says the Sharingan is no match for him, no less?

    Quote Quote:
    The barrier was fast enough to materialise before A can hit him, so that when A did hit him, he waste away his arm.
    That wasn't Enton, as in Amaterasu manipulation, but only the summoning of the flames on Susano'o.
    You know, like he does when he forms a sword made of Amaterasu's flames.

    By Enton jutsus I mean Kagetsuchi and the Magatama

    Quote Quote:
    I claim he will eventually in the future. You claim that the best he would be in the future is the same as what he had in the past.

    The more we go into the future, the more I will win.
    Which, again, doesn't mean that, at the present time, as in today, he has the degree of control you claim he already has.
    By what you wrote, I can safely assume Naruto has Hiraishin because he knows the three guys that knows it, thus he will ask them to teach it, thus in every debate I'll make so that Naruto will have Hiraishin.

    Solid logic right there

    Quote Quote:
    I foresee him doing this if he fights Gaara. He already did something similar when he crushed Deidara.

    It's a fantasy fight. You are supposed to think of a possible way for Gaara to beat my strategy.

    The fact that you couldn't means that my strategy in this particular fantasy fight is unbeatable using Gaara's limited arsenal.
    Show me when Sasuke, fighting Deidara, coathed a Susano'o sword in lightning.
    Fantasy fight doesn't mean "I make shit up so my favourite character wins" fight, it means "find a way for my favourite character to win with what he has" fight.

    And sadly for you, a Susano'o sword coathed in lightning and omnidirectional Amaterasu projectiles are something Sasuke doesn't have, nor he was hinted to have


    Quote Quote:

    Do you even make any sense here? The heated atmosphere is what creates and empowers Kirin. The more heat there is, the stronger Kirin is.

    And guess what produces a lot of heat? Ama-f*cking-terasu.
    You clearly don't have the slightest idea on how Kirin works.
    I'll explain it to you:

    Sasuke heats the atmosphere, using fire dragons and, in that particular istance, a forest ignited by Amaterasu.
    To rapidly warm up the atmosphere above and generate a powerful rising air current.
    To create cumuloninbus, better known as thunderclouds
    .

    Its a natural phenomenon, its not Sasuke powering up a thunder thanks to the heat, is the heat forming cumuloninbus and in turn Sasuke taking control of the lightning that the cumuloninbus formed.

    Look here's the Wiki link if you don't believe me
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; October 08, 2012 at 10:29 AM.

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