Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (10/13/14 - 10/19/14).
Forum News: The nomination phase of the Community Awards 2014 is live! Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
The Amaterasu shield is a perfect defense against someone who only uses Taijutsu. It's a win/win situation -> either it keeps your enemy away from you or the enemy (if he attacks) hits the flames.
Sasuke didn't know that Raikage is going to attack, but he clearly knew what I wrote above. It was a win/win situation (I'm only talking about instance where Sasuke uses his Ama-shield and Raikage bitchslaps him) for Sasuke and the outcome pretty much confirms it:
Yes, Mei would lose against an in-form current Sasuke, but she's fighting Sasuke after he had already faced both A and Gaara. I'd like to point out that I think he loses to Gaara to begin with, but for the sake of argument I'd just refer to my original post that qualified that Mei could defeat Sasuke if he was in a condition comparable to the last time they faced off. Seing as I've already pointed out that I think that he's likely to lose against Gaara, I obviously think there is little chance that he's going to be in better condition than that. It's kind of funny that you skipped Gaara in this discussion.Quote:
I'm not really sure if this is supposed to be relevant to the discussion. There isn't really anything about Sasuke's battle with Oonoki. And I think we've seen what Tsunade does if she's impaled.Quote:
Basically everytime Kishi needed someone to remark "just like a yellow flash".
As for Sasuke reacting, don't forget that Susano'o was already up, that Raikage had to dodge Amaterasu before attacking Sasuke and that Sasuke is no fool.
Sasuke lost sight of him, he summoned a near-instantaneous defence that would protect him against a normal person.
Doesn't mean that he could follow Raikage, only that he's no fool
Doesn't change the fact that Susano'o would be useless in a straight-up taijutsu match, nor does it prove that Sasuke can follow Raikage's speed since he faced V1, not V2.Quote:
Also, would you charge up front someone who can ignite whatever he sees? He would attack from the sides/behind like he did against Sasuke himself and Madara ( with the support of Oonoki )
Why would he jump and remain sospended mid-air?Quote:
Hell why would he jump at all? The room isn't small, coathing the whole floor with Amaterasu would deplete Sasuke's reserve, and he would have to fill the void behind him and at his sides as well.
Also let's not forget that ninjas can stand on the ceiling or on the walls, Raikage would simply attack from there, should Sasuke ignite the whole floor.
Sasuke can't predict Raikage's V2, and a strategy like that would deplete his chakra reserves.
To win Sasuke needs to stay on the defensive and cook up a counter attack, if he's actively attacking he would find himself empty imho
See how Danzou's eye is black on the top, and then it activates below, with the sound effect associated for the activating of the eye?Quote:
Even if it was active, Sharingan can't see through clothes, all Danzou would see are chakra shrouds, just like Sasuke saw Kabuto's chakra and nothing else when he hid.
As ninjabot said, obviously the user will be slowed down with a giant chakra construct to move as well as his body.
Which slow attacks are you referring to?
Genjutsu is worth mentioning because A is a melee attacker. He has no long-range jutsu so it's only a matter of time before he tries to attack Sasuke head-on. There are many ways that Sasuke can exploit this situation. A feint to lure him to attack, for example, then follow up with a weak genjutsu to stop him in his tracks and Amaterasu him.Quote:
About Sasuke negating A's speed, it has already happened in their previous fight. Why do you think he wrap himself with Amaterasu behind Susanoo and then gave A a 'try me' glare? A's speed is useless largely because he's so quick to anger. Against s crafty opponent like Sasuke who notices every single detail of his opponent's behavior (read Danzou fight), you can be certain that A's temper would be used against him.
And really, you would be severely underrating Sasuke's abilities if you think he's not going to come up with something new if he was to fight A again. For instance, what's stopping him from launching a storm of Amaterasu boomerangs around him and using Enton to control these boomerangs to force A into a specific corner (Senbonzakura style) where he would either be impaled by the sword or genjutsu-ed? The possibilities are endless with Sasuke's arsenal and his wit. Unfortunetaly, I don't see any possibility with A. He would still be a one-trick pony - then, now and in the future.
Gaara has very little mobility. His earth-element sand shield is useless if Sasuke coats Susano's Amaterasu sword with lightning.Quote:
There, I just gave away the solution that could one-shot Gaara.
Sasuke would still have a lot of energy left when he faces Mei.
Last edited by Ryr; October 07, 2012 at 08:50 AM.
Sasuke already tried to genjutsu A and failed, so Raikage will not be caught in a genjutsu by Sasuke.
What's stopping him is that what you described was neither showed nor hinted to be possible, like, at all.Quote:
Only because Sasuke can redirect flames to form a shield doesn't mean he can use Enton to move projectiles around at an high speed or at any range, the best manipulation Sasuke showed was when Gaara stopped his Enton, and even then we don't know if Gaara stopped an Amaterasu or newly conjured flames that were then launched.
And before you wrote your one-liners in bold, see here how Sasuke has no trace whatsoever of Amaterasu's flames around his Susano'o.
Which, again, he never used nor he ever hinted to be able to use.Quote:
Only because Sasuke can use Raiton doesn't mean he can coath Susano'o with Raiton, he never did it in his fights.
It would be like claiming Naruto can fuse Sage Mode and Bijuu Mode only because he can use both and showed he can use Kyuubi chakra when in Sage Mode
Sasuke was genjutsu-ing the other guy (try turning a few pages).
A was dumb enough to think that Sasuke can genjutsu him from the back.
What's not possible? Amaterasu can be controlled by Enton.Quote:
You know what, do you actually foresee that Sasuke would form a shield with Amaterasu before he unveiled it during that fight? That's the point - just because you don't foresee it doesn't mean it's not possible in Sasuke's context. In fact, it would be better if A, like you, doesn't foresee it, so that he would be owned in one-shot.Quote:
About Gaara, I think you conveniently ignore the whole point of my argument. I said, "coating his Susanoo sword with LIGHTNING." Amaterasu is fire, fire boosts lightning (think Kirin). Gaara's only defence is earth element. Do I have to spell out everything for you?
All that matters is that the flames were there when A hit the Susanoo frame. Lolzz.Quote:
Last edited by Ryr; October 07, 2012 at 09:42 AM.
in the page I posted, Sasuke was looking directly at A, making a handsign, after which A said the Sharingan is no match for him.
Later when he one-shots Shi Sasuke plays spiderman on the wall no more, and is looking directly at Shi.
Do we know the full scope of control?Quote:
Just because Amaterasu can be controlled ( its not controlled by Enton, Enton is the name of Amaterasu's "element" ) doesn't mean it can do everything, at enormous speed.
The best degree of control Sasuke showed was forming a shield in front of him
If it was in the scope of Sasuke's abilities, sure.Quote:
Sasuke's manipulation of Enton was showed in two instances:
creating a shield in front of him, using the Enton sword against Kabuto ( and against Zetsu ).
What you just did was take an ability and reinvented it at your leisure, why then Sasuke didn't redirect Amaterasu when A dodged if it was so easy?
As for the elements, do get your facts straight:
Fire doesn't boost Lighting, you got it all wrong. Sasuke uses the fire dragons to create a natural phenomenon by heating the atmosphere and creating thundercoulds, which will generate the thunder that Sasuke will then took control of.
Here's the element wheel for future information.
It still doesn't change the fact that Sasuke can't coat his Susano'o sword with Lightning, the only reason he can create an Amaterasu sword is because, just like Susano'o, Amaterasu spurs from him eyes.
If Sasuke was capable of coating his Susano'o weapons with Lightning, then why wouldn't he done it before?
He blasts the roof open and lets the heat escape the room. Tsuch is in he next room and he can't intefere to the point this fight is concluded. That as much the op makes clear. Its a 1vs1 then moves to the next and 1vs1 again. Tsuck himself is stuck in the next room to the point Sasuke goes in.Quote:
It can burn fireproof material and solid wall. The evidence falls on you. Provide evidence that sand > fireproof material and solid wall.Quote:
I could go on with the temperatures that the databook states it burns at but what is the point. Gaara does not have feats with the sand to show it can provide protection vs a focused Amaterasu... Hell he can't even move the sand out of his pot and in front of himself before he is on fire... Blinking > opening pot, moving sand.
Of course considering he already has a ton of fire burning from the other fights just use a little more Katon and 1 shoot him with Kirin if need be.
There is no way in hell Sasuke has no chakra left after some 3 Amaterasu and some Susano usage. He showed to be able to hold it for almost 10 minutes...Quote:
Tsuck is not going to fly faster then Sasuke can Amaterasu him. Tsuck does not have speed on Raikage level with full shunshin + full powered Raiton armour. Jinton all need handseals. He is going to eat an Amaterasu before any jinton is used.
I hype Amaterasu to much? Nop... What you are doing is put Tsuck on Raikage level of speed (FULL SPEED), not that is hype(to be able to dodge Amaterasu)... Hell he can even expand it to cover something the size of a 4 storey building.. Yeah dodge that.
What do we know from Amaterasu:
1-It can burn trough fireproof material and solid wall like nothing. It had temperatures (when focused) compared to that of the Sun. It was even able to "burn" fire itself.
2-Its fast enough that you need Raikage level of speed (max speed) to dodge.
3-Amaterasu can be expanded to cover something the size of the 8 tails extremly fast.
All of those are facts. From the Databook and the manga. Its not hype.
He lost? Are you reading some other type of manga? He made Raikage lose and arm and "kill himself" in an attempt (that would probably have failed) to kill Sasuke.. Sasuke did NOT lost that fight. If anything he won a lot more then Raikage...Quote:
Still this is Sasuke with full ARMOURED Susano.. Raikage is toast.
Yeah is not a 1 shoot ability as long as you have counters but the ones i listed to not. Raikage yes that is why i said Kirin for an easy win.Quote:
Gaara was able to block an enton. That is not focused Amaterasu... Big diference.
Last edited by xXan; October 07, 2012 at 01:38 PM.
Amaterasu can burn a solid wall?
Anyway, I don't think Sasuke needs Susano'o to fight Raikage unless Raikage goes at his max speed. The only time Sasuke needed it was during ligerbomb and when Raikage dodged Amaterasu, if I recall. The rest he was fighting without defense. But, I don't see how Sasuke can hurt Raikage when Raikage can react so fast and move pretty fast as well. Though, it's not like Raikage has an advantage as well, unless he uses his max speed or gets close quarters. I do think Sasuke can outsmart Raikage though. Use chidori and follow it up with Amaterasu as soon as possible. Raikage tanked chidori once, he'll probably think he can do it again.
Gaara should be easy though. Sasuke can use his speed and raiton his advantage. He avoids the sand and uses chidori to take out Gaara.
So far, Mei hasn't shown anything that could help her beat Sasuke, though if Sasuke's tired, she might have a chance.
Oonoki has a good chance of beating Sasuke, but he'll have to find a way to slow Sasuke down. He could use a bunshin to lure Sasuke in and then use his real body to make Sasuke heavier. if Sasuke can't move, he can't dodge the Jinton. I don't think the Susano'o can tank it either. Sasuke having gone through Raikage, Gaara, and Mei without healing hurts his chances of winning even more.
Since when Amaterasu burned through a solid wall?Quote:
The house became the toad, meaning Amaterasu burned flesh, not fireproof flesh but fire-resistant flesh.
Gaara actually has a feat of stopping Amaterasu without getting burned, as I already pointed out to Ryr.
Focused Amaterasu is your interpretation, a Samurai got a "focused Amaterasu" ( the one meant for A ) and yet his armour took a while to burn.
Also are you sure you want Sasuke to use Kirin?
Not only Sasuke lacks an entire forest ignited with Amaterasu, he lacks the Cursed Seal to empower his Katon, thus he would completely deplete his chakra reserves only to use Kirin, meaning he would be exhausted either against Raikage or Gaara
Depends on how much he overuses those 3 Amaterasu, if he lights an entire room with it even one would deplete himQuote:
Again proof that earth/Amaterasu, that Amaterasu can destroy earth and not simply burn it.
Want proof on my part?
A "focused Amaterasu" from Sasuke didn't destroy a ounce of the cave where he fought alongside Itachi against Kabuto, it simply burned the first layer.
What we, as in the ones who read the manga, knows about Amaterasu:Quote:
1- It can burn fire-resistant flesh
2- Hebi Sasuke almost outrun Amaterasu, and Hebi Sasuke is below a lot of characters
3- It spreads quickly when it hits flesh, he didn't coat Hachibi with it, he hit him and then the flames spread on him
Sasuke doesn't need Susano'o to win against Raikage?
This is getting really ridiculous, no offence M3J. Without Susano'o Sasuke gets speedblitzed the moment A uses a shunshin, come on! Unless A magically forgets to use V2 and gives Sasuke a hand
"A goal is always the result of a mistake of one party and a correct execution from another party. "
The correct execution was done by Sasuke (Amaterasu-shield) and Raikage made the mistake (hit the flames). Everyone knows the result.
I have the impression that you don't want to give Sasuke any credit for the loss of Raikages arm. You shouldn't forget that Raikage wouldn't have lost his arm, if this was only a riblet-form Susanoo. But Sasuke decided to use Amaterasu as an additional shield and Raikage decided to hit this shield. The first one made everything correct, the latter made a mistake and lost an arm.
Sasukes feat here is clear. He was smart enough to put himself in a win/win situation -> Raikage stays away from him or receives serious damage.
Itachi was able to blind his summonings and get close enough to grab Naruto and Kirabi before Nagato could react, the same guy who had no trouble reacting to the latter two's speed. So Madara jumping up behind the Kages to smack them down and landing on the meteor before they could get up, and the Susanoo clones owning the Kages is him being slow?
Not really, as by that logic, Naruto should be real slow considering the Kyuubi's chakra was stated to be quite heavy. In fact, that should hold true for all the Jinchuuriki manifesting their cloaks, yet they clearly aren't slowed in any way.