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Thread: Kage Summit Rematch

  1. #106
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    Amaterasu/Enton is now fast enough to keep up with the Raikage? Am i reading right?
    Is Madaras bunshin were fast enough to keep raikage !? no , but they fond an oppening and finished him like he was nothing ( with sample Sharingan Genjutsu !! )
    خداحافظ

  2. #107
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    Is Madaras bunshin were fast enough to keep raikage !? no , but they fond an oppening and finished him like he was nothing ( with sample Sharingan Genjutsu !! )
    That was not a simple sharingan genjutsu. That was an EMS genjutsu:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/588/8


    @Uchiha_Blood

    Quote Quote:
    The manga proved the databook is wrong in regard of these instances:
    Amaterasu doesn't burn at that temperature, for the reasons I explained you. Goemon can be said to do the same thing. Jiraiya's Rasengan can't, using common sense, be as strong as a Bijuudama
    That was not focused... Or are you telling me that something that can burn close to instantly the belly of a fireproof frog is not going to burn the back of Karin even after some time has passed?

    Quote Quote:
    Not really relevant, I explained already to you what would happen should Amaterasu really burn with the same temperature of the sun ( the "coldest" even, as the sun has different areas ) and I already posted an example on a manga:
    Yamamoto's bankai. If Amaterasu burned like that, I assure you, it would evaporate the very enemy it touches, focus or not
    That is asuming it follow the same laws of physics you would expect from real life. Amaterasu is not that hot when focused and when not. Karins back and fireproof belly.
    Stop giving me this stuff as reason why Amaterasu does not burn as hot... You should start with Danzo functioning with no hearth. Its a MANGA. As long as the manga state X can do Y its IRRELEVANT if the laws of pysics or whatever state diferntly..
    Let me give you another example. Raikage and Tsunade where moved at the SPEED OF LIGHT. Imposible by any standards considering we don't have enough energy in the univer to do that (you need an invinite amounth). Then what happends when an object hits another when 1 object travels at the speed of light? Defenetly not what happened in the manga where both objects where fine. Kabutos puppet and Madara should end up completly anihilated and a huge boom should be there but it was not... At that speed Tsunade and Raikage should end up with INFINITE MASS. Nothing happend like it should based on the laws of physics. The friction alone and would incinerate them. Not even Tsunade's hair was burned...
    Again PLEASE stop with the "not working like in real life so that is not so" stuff as it is irrelevant.
    Do you also tell me Danzo was not waling about, talking and what not with no hearth? How about Tsunade and Raikage? Where they send at the speed of light? I gues they where not as the event was not respecting the laws of physics.

    When the Manga states a human can survive in space IT CAN. Now in Naruto verse it was never said that a human can survive in space so you can use real life stuff to argue that he can but if the manga states that he can THEN HE CAN (with evidence like having one do that).
    Just like Superman moving buldings and Hulk holding with his bare hands 2 tectonic plates togeder.

    Quote Quote:
    Incorrect, those dragons traveled up high in the air, they didn't just go up and exploded to produce some heat.
    Do search for cumuloninbus in the wiki.
    That is "cumulonimbus" and what does it have to do with this? I know how those are formed. Sasuke sending multiple arrows up full on Amaterasu should end up doing the same thing. Susano can trow arrows up and Sasuke can do the dragons even in normal mode. You think its not enough to create upwords air curents? I don't know how hot those where but they can't be hotter then Amaterasu even when not focused. The clouds created in his fight with Itachi where very low. He could reach that hight with the arrows for sure.
    I still don't see what is the point here as he can use those dragons in base mode just as well. Probably not as powerfull but he can more then add to that by having Susano completment his dragons with Amaterasu.
    All you need is rising heat, not dragons going into orbit.


    Quote Quote:
    How it can be a plot hole if Sasuke is never hinted to be able to do such a thing?
    He used a very specific jutsu to do it, not some random Gokyakuu.
    Because he can replicate it. CS or not.

    Quote Quote:
    Always remember Jirobo that said his strenght increased tenfold. At worst, he would need to double the number of dragons, and even then is being generous.
    Sasuke wasn't even tired before using them, he used only Oral Rebirth as an expensive jutsu, meaning he had likely at least half of his chakra capacity left.
    If 4 dragons could exhaust him ( as Itachi pointed out ), I think 8 dragons will do the same, even though his stamina increased.
    That is his body, CS does give you a better body but nowhere it is stated about jutsus. Its like Bain and his venom.

    Sasuke got low on chakra after using his Oral Rebirth, the dragons are not stated to be impresive or chakra draining:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/15
    Its made clear what drained him, its not the dragons in any shape or fashion.

    Again i am not sure how much CS added but doubling the number of jutsus is more then generous. The databook itself states nothing about CS as something Sasuke needs to use this. We can just asume it added something, more power and that is why i said 2x but that is generous.

    Quote Quote:
    CS greatly increases everything by forcefully drawing out chakra and eating away at the user's soul, and never use Rasengan as a measuring stick, its the most inconstat jutsu in the manga
    That chakra is the users. Its just that in normal conditions that is not used. Probably for self preservation like the Gates for Lee.
    Also Rasengan is consitent. It always killed aside from special casses like Tobi special body. What else do you whant to use?

    Again that stuff makes your body better, i don't remember giving better and more powerfull jutsus. Its not senjutsu chakra.
    Not going to argue it adds something to them but really 10 times? No way man.

    Let's compare here. Same tech and Sasuke is using his CS (not completly):
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/389/15

    He is pushing him back, a sick, close to death and having big problems with his eyes Itachi. HE IS SLOWLY PUSHING HIM BACK. The so called super jutsu used in CS. Please man. 2x the number is MORE then generous.Yes he is not COMPLETLY into that mode but still. He has his wing out and CS marks on his face. No idea what the fact that his face is not completly changed means BUT HE HAS WINGS OUT, well one of them. Seriously i never got to see any special jutsu from him in that mode to asume his jutsus in that mode are 10 times better.. 2x is more then generous.

    Quote Quote:
    Sasuke didn't completely dodge, he saw Amaterasu coming and moved before Itachi could use it, then he ran until Amaterasu caught him.
    That was someone with info using the "weakness" of Amaterasu:
    the moment you see blood and you can follow the user sight, you can guess where Amaterasu will appear, and act accordingly.
    That should not be posible. Itachi himself has a sharingan and could intercept Sasuke and cast the jutsu in front of his running path. This means that he could not do that for whatever reason. Why do you think Raikage did not move... No point really in moving as Sasuke would know where he is before he get's there.
    Itachi had 1 eye closed (the working one) and the other was so bad that he probably could not even see streigh. Remember he had to cover that idea or it was a blur. He probably not even able to see Sasuke aside from some blur.

    Again its a very bad moment to judge this. Sasuke showed to shoot it so fast enough to force Raikage power himself to full and use shunshin to dodge.
    Look how close this dodge is:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/12
    Last edited by xXan; October 09, 2012 at 06:37 AM.

  3. #108
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    Is Madaras bunshin were fast enough to keep raikage !? no , but they fond an oppening and finished him like he was nothing ( with sample Sharingan Genjutsu !! )
    Let's not compare Madara to Sasuke, please.
    Even more, a Madara with Rin'negan and Mokuton to enhance his already godly abilities

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    That's exactly what he did. He couldn't see his Susanoo with his neck turned, so it's literally impossible he just spawned new Enton flames on top of the bones without using flames he already created. Amaterasu spawns from point of eyesight. Enton spawns from already created flames. Simply look at every moment he used Kagutsuchi or another attack labeled Enton: they ALWAYS originate from a previously manifested flame.
    Point is, he had no flames nearby, since the samurai hit still had his armour on fire when Kankuro and Temari saved him.
    Amaterasu is part of Sasuke's Susano'o, as we saw with the Magatama and the Amaterasu sword.
    Him summoning up flames can be considered just like him summoning up Susano'o.

    Quote Quote:
    While I'll agree that Sasuke had Susanoo on every time he manipulated his Amaterasu, it makes no sense to believe that he needs it to do so, as turning off the Amaterasu flames count as manipulation, and he didn't need a Susanoo to do that.
    To summon up flames to surround himself yes, he needs Susano'o, at least if he wants it to be as fast as he did against Raikage.
    Otherwise he would have to conjure Amaterasu somewhere and then manipulate it to surround himself, which isn't a fast process. Igniting Susano'o is a facet only Sasuke can bo because his Susano'o is syncronized with Amaterasu, not because Sasuke used Amaterasu, manipulated it after conjuring it to stick it with the bones

  4. #109
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    @Uchiha_Blood

    To manipulate the flames on Susano he IS using his eyes like casting Amaterasu:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/464

    Here he is direcly showed moving the flames with his eye power. Its not Susano doing it just like that. How later the weapons work is diferent. That Susano is spanwed with those weapons but back then the Amaterasu was casted with his eyes.

  5. #110
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    To manipulate the flames on Susano he IS using his eyes like casting Amaterasu:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/464

    Here he is direcly showed moving the flames with his eye power. Its not Susano doing it just like that. How later the weapons work is diferent. That Susano is spanwed with those weapons but back then the Amaterasu was casted with his eyes.
    Never said he doesn't need MS to manipulate Amaterasu ( and even then it was manipulation of already existing flames ), I said he doesn't cast Amaterasu and control the flames back to attach on the bones of Susano'o when he made flames appear on his Susano'o.

  6. #111
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Never said he doesn't need MS to manipulate Amaterasu ( and even then it was manipulation of already existing flames ), I said he doesn't cast Amaterasu and control the flames back to attach on the bones of Susano'o when he made flames appear on his Susano'o.

    What he did there is shape manipulation like later. Read this:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/14

    Read what She states there. Its controling the flames like later with the eye. Susano is not the one to "pop" then into existence. Sasuke created and manipulated them somehow with his eyes around Susano. We don't get to see his eyes but that is what he is doing.

  7. #112
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    What he did there is shape manipulation like later. Read this:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/14

    Read what She states there. Its controling the flames like later with the eye. Susano is not the one to "pop" then into existence. Sasuke created and manipulated them somehow with his eyes around Susano. We don't get to see his eyes but that is what he is doing.
    So what you are saying is that Sasuke used Amaterasu again when he already used it a moment before, manipulated it with his eyes so it sticked to the bones of his Susano'o, all in the space of a moment?

  8. #113
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    @Uchiha_Blood

    That is the only explanation yes. We already know he can use 2 MS jutsus at the same time. Itachi himself used 2 Amaterasu 1 after another in his fight with Sasuke. I really see no problem here aside from how did he got it behind his back but aside from casting it with his eyes he had no other way in doing it.

    Its said by Shi how its flame manipulation and then later Sasuke (just after) showed how he is doing it, with the other eye (not the one casting Amaterasu).

  9. #114
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    That is the only explanation yes. We already know he can use 2 MS jutsus at the same time. Itachi himself used 2 Amaterasu 1 after another in his fight with Sasuke. I really see no problem here aside from how did he got it behind his back but aside from casting it with his eyes he had no other way in doing it.

    Its said by Shi how its flame manipulation and then later Sasuke (just after) showed how he is doing it, with the other eye (not the one casting Amaterasu).
    So let me get this straight:
    you believe that Sasuke fired an Amaterasu, then fired another off screen, manipulated it so it would stick to the bones of his Susano'o all in the space of time Raikage required to shunshin behind his back, when we know Raikage is faster than Amaterasu?

    If so, then I'm out of here

  10. #115
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    So let me get this straight:
    you believe that Sasuke fired an Amaterasu, then fired another off screen, manipulated it so it would stick to the bones of his Susano'o all in the space of time Raikage required to shunshin behind his back, when we know Raikage is faster than Amaterasu?

    If so, then I'm out of here
    If you have a better explanation based on what Shi stated and Sasuke showed just moments later i am all ears. Just don't give me Susano poping Amaterasu by itself as a defence...

  11. #116
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    Is Madaras bunshin were fast enough to keep raikage !? no , but they fond an oppening and finished him like he was nothing ( with sample Sharingan Genjutsu !! )
    Im pretty sure people are saying Enton can keep up with the Raikage... Ofcourse i may be wrong.

    ---------- Post added at 06:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    If you have a better explanation based on what Shi stated and Sasuke showed just moments later i am all ears. Just don't give me Susano poping Amaterasu by itself as a defence...
    Oh dear, xXan surely you see how much BS that is. Like Uchiha_Blood said, Sasuke could not (not in this universe anyway) have conjured flames elsewhere and then redirected them to his Susan'o, while being dumbfounded and then manage to create a shield all in a split second.

    I read in the Hangout thread that there was a lot of Sasuke wank in here but gosh, i never expected this much.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

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  13. #117
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    Im pretty sure people are saying Enton can keep up with the Raikage... Ofcourse i may be wrong.

    ---------- Post added at 06:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------



    Oh dear, xXan surely you see how much BS that is. Like Uchiha_Blood said, Sasuke could not (not in this universe anyway) have conjured flames elsewhere and then redirected them to his Susan'o, while being dumbfounded and then manage to create a shield all in a split second.

    I read in the Hangout thread that there was a lot of Sasuke wank in here but gosh, i never expected this much.
    Oh another smug post from you? Why am i not surprised. Fact is considering what Shi STATED IN THE MANGA that Sasuke is doing and then Sasuke HIMSELF demonstrating how said feat is achived i would LOVE for you to provide your hypothesis on how he was able to achive said feat.

    You need to include in your hypothesis that:
    A) What Sasuke did there is Amaterasu manipulation.
    B) He is casting it with his EYES.

    Shi stated it and then Sasuke showed it the next pages or the 2'nd one.

    How he made them so fast and on Susano direcly I GOT NO IDEA but Shi states what he is doing there...

    EDIT: Not even stating enton can keep up with Raikage as Gaara was able to block it. What i am stating is that he manipulated said flames with his eyes there just as SHI STATED.
    Its probably diferent from sommoning it around himself and summoning and then TROWING it after Raikage. The defensive aplicaton of Amaterasu is probably faster.
    Last edited by xXan; October 09, 2012 at 09:15 AM.

  14. #118
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    1. Giving him power like he can infused his lightning to his susanoo`s arrow. So, for saying that he doesn't have that kind of power is nonsense?
    At best, it's merely questionable. There's just as much evidence to support such an idea as there is against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    2.how come it was nonsense? Sasuke who would going to fight mei after gaara and raikage, would never have a 100% of his chakra. So sasuke is destined to become mei`s bitch if he can't defeat rakage and gaara in a minute or if he cant save his chakra in his fight against the both of them.
    Um, no. Sasuke's chakra usage with MS has grown, as shown in the mentioned Danzo battle. He's not like he was at the summit, where a few MS techniques would wear him out. He can now use them continuously without risking running out of chakra.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    3. It doesn't matter if he have a new power, or he can spam any shit he wants, but does he have the chakra to spam that shit in a day? Hell no. His chakra capacity is the same as sasuke who got beaten by the kages and sasuke who almost got killed by oonoki if obito didn't came to save his butt.
    Yes, he has the chakra. Again, reread the fight with Danzo. He used half a dozen MS techniques, alongside his regular techniques, and didn't get close to running out of chakra. And since gaining EMS, he's used his MS techniques with even more ease.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    4. Does oonoki needs a hand signs? I wonder. Are we reading the same manga? Honestly, you should stop making up things just to make sasuke look better. Sasuke can't defeat oonoki. The last time they fought is a proof that sasuke needs to be on madara`s level to defeat that old man. Oonoki can fire his dust element first before sasuke can use any new shit power he has. Oonoki doesn't need any hand signs for his dust jutsu, that's a manga fact. You can't do anything about it. The moment sasuke will enter to oonoki`s room, he can eat oonoki`s jutsu directly to his face. No but`s and if`s nor he can as for a time out. Oonoki can spam his jutsu just to destroy sasuke. Ems? Those eyes is useless to oonoki.
    Um, Onoki does use handseals to employ his Dust release. Last time they fought? You mean a near on empty Sasuke? That's ridiculous. And a simple genjutsu would easily trick Onoki into thinking he landed a hit while Sasuke strikes from behind. Onoki can't "spam" his techniques. It was already shown that using them are costly. The elderly Onoki would get worn out long before the younger Sasuke.

  15. #119
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    At best, it's merely questionable. There's just as much evidence to support such an idea as there is against it.
    I'm curious, what evidence there is that Sasuke can coat his Susano'o weapons in lightning?
    Manga panels where Sasuke, or anyone else, states that this is possible.

    EDIT: had to specify Susano'o weapons
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; October 09, 2012 at 11:01 AM.

  16. #120
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    Re: Kage Summit Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo
    Amaterasu/Enton is now fast enough to keep up with the Raikage? Am i reading right?
    Correction: Enton is faster than Raikage's max speed. That's far different from "keeping up". Please do attempt to explain away how Sasuke managed to move flames from where Raikage was originally was (or actually, from the Samurai's armor), back behind him and on top of his Susanoo without his flames moving outrageously fast.

    He either spawned them on his Susanoo without eyesight (which means Sasuke wins every fight he'll ever be in from now on, since he doesn't require eyesight to burn shit. He just causes things to ignite out of thin air because he's angry, lmao), or his Enton is so outrageously, game-breakingly fast that it simply outran Raikage's V2 speed. Which is exactly what the hell happened. Exactly.

    It's a lose/lose for those trying to downplay Sasuke's ability to defend against Raikage. No matter which you choose it results in a situation where Raikage burns without too much stamina being wasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
    Point is, he had no flames nearby,
    YES! Exactly. There were no flames nearby, meaning the flames had to move EVEN FASTER to cover the necessary ground needed to defend against Raikage's V2 max speed surprise attack.

    Quote Quote:
    since the samurai hit still had his armour on fire when Kankuro and Temari saved him.
    Amaterasu is part of Sasuke's Susano'o, as we saw with the Magatama and the Amaterasu sword.
    Lol, no it isn't. If it was, he'd need access to Susanoo BEFORE gaining access to Amaterasu. Instead, it's the other way around: you need access to Amaterasu, then Tsukuyomi inorder to gain the ability to wield Susanoo. His Enton Jewel is apart of his Susanoo, yes. But if he fires an Amaterasu, and then uses enton afterwards to manipulate it, then that has absolutely nothing to do with Susanoo. Nothing. Whatsoever.

    Quote Quote:
    Him summoning up flames can be considered just like him summoning up Susano'o.
    No it can't. That'd be like saying Tsukyomi is a part of Susanoo just because the wielder can also use Susanoo.

    ---------- Post added at 12:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
    I'm curious, what evidence there is that Sasuke can coat his Susano'o weapons in lightning?
    Manga panels where Sasuke, or anyone else, states that this is possible.

    EDIT: had to specify Susano'o weapons
    None. But I'm glad you brought up this point, as there's actually something else I've realized Sasuke is capable of doing: Rai-En: Shakunetsu Chidori.

    ...

    What? Never heard of it? Oh, that's because I've just made the shit up. I'll explain: Remember how Raikage karate chopped Sasuke's neck and set his hand aflame with Enton? Remember when Sasuke managed to coat Susanoo in Enton before Raikage could blindside him with his max speed? How about how Sasuke managed to pierce through Raikage's Raiton Armor with Chidori (if only barely)? And lastly, despite the Chidori doing negligable damage, Sasuke chooses as the best counter attack against Raikage... another piercing technique (Kagutsuchi). Now, all of these instances imply several things:

    1: a Raiton that requires dense shape manipulation can be coated in Enton (this is important!).
    2: Sasuke can mount an Enton defense faster than Raikage can hit him with his V2 speed (important aswell! Keep up!)
    3: Sasuke (potentially) believed his Kagutsuchi could pierce deeper than his Chidori did (why else would he resort to an offensive attack in such a dire position? Especially once his last piercing jutsu did so little?

    Basically... Sasuke does severe damage by coating his Chidori in Enton. Yep. And it's perfectly possible based on what we've already seen in the manga. Enton can coat Raiton. Enton can be sharpened via shape manipulation, creating a cutting/piercing weapon. So... Sasuke can coat his Chidori with Enton. I guess... you could compare it to coating a sword with a... hotter, sharper sword. Lol.

    "But how does a Raikage who's seen Sasuke's Enton before get hit with an Enton Chidori?" you ask? Easy: By baiting Raikage without using Susanoo... or by making sure the moment he drops Susano he knows exactly where Raikage's gonna attack from. For example... http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463 If Sasuke had an Amaterasu miss earlier in the fight, he could, at the last second, warp the flames over his Chidori (that Raikage thinks he'll just tank) and then pierce through before sharpening the flames into a serrated blade that stabs deeper while igniting Raikage's chest. Heck, even if it doesn't ignite his body underneath the armor it'll still expand the length and width of the blade making a bigger hole.

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