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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
I'll go with random pair vs as a fun part. I'm not sure if this should be new thread or not, though.
Kaidoh/Yagyuu vs Niou/Momoshiro
Kaidoh/Niou vs Yagyuu/Momoshiro
Last edited by -Ken-; October 21, 2012 at 02:20 PM.
Niou can Synchro with whomever he feels like.
Just going to say that it is stupid that nioh can auto synchro with people he has just met. But yeah, based on that, nioh wins all.
By auto synchro I assume you mean Niou just copies whoever his partner is and I guess it's presumed that anybody can always synchro with himself. That said even if you disallow that, Niou inherits the physical abilities of whoever he clones (he can knock away #9 and #10's rackets as Kabaji but not as Tezuka) so just clone someone with extremely high physical stats (Sanada or Kintaro, for example) would give whatever team he is on a huge edge. If he can clone certain high tier moves (i.e. Yukimura's yips) that'd even be better, but there isn't enough information to know what moves he can or cannot clone. Otherwise just clone Yukimura and knock out the opposing team and that'd be the end.
Ochi/Kite is uber version of silver pair. Who do you think win?
Last edited by -Ken-; October 21, 2012 at 03:48 PM.
Due to Hakamada's status as fodder I'll assume all of Ochi's tech work on him.
If Hakamada cannot return Mach Serve then Ochi always wins his serve (Kintaro can only return half of the time, so it'll just be forever deuces even if Kintaro can return Mach Serve and score every single time).
Mind Assassin would make Hakamada double fault on his serve so Hakamada would lose all his serves too.
So Kite/Ochi is guaranteed to win half of the games before considering anything else and I don't see how they can possibly lose like this. It won't necessarily be a blowout because Mind Assassin seems to be something that kicks in only when the score is close, but ultimately Kite/Ochi can't lose by the fact that they'll always get at least half of the games.
As Kite/Ochi will win half of the games, they will win. I'm unsure if Ochi's Mental Assasin technique work on both players at the same time, or like in Atobe/Niou only works on one player and cannot be used on two.
I think that with Sukuchihou, Kite can return Vanish, or it will take some games before that happens.
If Yukimura says it's hard to return then that means it should take games off of every MSer.
The Top are likely to eventually hit it back but in Doubles, with how less frequent Ochi would serve there wouldn't be time to adapt easily.
Mach is taking games off of both Hakamada and Kintaro.
Kintaro's power and Vanish however would be too much I believe. So 6-4 to Tooyama/Hakamada
---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------
So considering Vanish almost defeated Tooyama, it's gonna be hard for Kite to be hitting it back.
Likewise Hakamada will double fault his serve the same way Atobe did during crucial runs. Because Ochi's serve + Hakamada's serve are both guaranteed wins for Ochi/Kite team, they cannot lose since you have to win more than half of the games to win in tennis.
There seems to a rather significant gap between G10 and below. Kite can play against a G10 so he's no worse than Hakamada. Kintaro is probably G10 tier but I don't see him moving into the upper tier (say, G5+). He's probably better than either Kite or Ochi but not by a significant amount, while Kite/Ochi are better than Hakamada possibly by a significant amount. At worst Ochi/Kite certainly don't appear to be underdogs in base stats even though their special moves might be a bit lacking outside of Mach Serve.
Here's the thing though, Ochi will always win his serve.
Kintaro will probably always win his serve too (probably the best player out of these 4, plus he has a new serve).
So the only games that are up to contest are Hakamada's serve and Kite's serve.
In recent NPOT we see that Konomi actually remembered that the serving team has a huge advantage for having the serve. Given that there's no obvious significant difference in both team's power we'll just assume they hold their serves. That means at some point Hakamada will have to serve at either 4-4, 5-4, 5-5, or 6-5. Even if you say 4-4 isn't a pressure situation, the other 3 definitely are so he'll always drop his game there and depending on who was ahead at that time it could easily end the match. If he serves at 4-4 and win, then it'll end up as 6-6 taking a standard 'everyone holds serve' model. This also assumes Kintaro is completely unaffected by Mental Assassin.
Now at a tiebreaker you'd have:
Hakamada will double fault all his serves.
Ochi will always score on Hakamada on his serve.
That means out of every 8 points the the Ochi/Kite team is already guaranteed to get 3 points. If they manage just one more point they can't possibly lose the tiebreaker. I don't see how Ochi/Kite will fail to get 0 out of 5 points, since 3 of those are their serves (Ochi serve to Kintaro + 2 serves for Kite).
To be fair I actually think Kintaro/Hakamada team is stronger overall, but Ochi has the serving game locked up by his Mach Serve + Mental Assassin. The guaranteed double fault versus weak player plus the ability to hold his serve means it doesn't matter how badly they play everywhere else, they'd still never lose the game.
---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
As an aside, POT has this strange irrelevence of the big serve even though in such a world the 'big serve' guys would be even more powerful than their real life counterparts. In real life the serve is the hardest shot to return. It's not clear if this is true in POT but serves are certainly no easier to counter than any move. So if you've a guy who can only do big serve and nothing else, it's no worse than a guy who has only one big move and nothing else. But here's the important part: serves cannot be canceled out by most techs. Take an all-powerful tech like Rai or World of Ice. Both can still be stopped by a tech (TPhantom/TZone). But you can't stop Mach Serve the same way because you don't even have the chance to hit the ball yet. If an opponent's tech requires a certain condition (Fuji being the best example) you can always try to avoid creating such situations, but there's no way you can prevent the opponent from serving.
It's honestly totally backwards that almost all the big serve guys are on doubles. If you can always hold your serve, it's physically impossible to lose a singles match but you can defiintely lose a doubles match even if you never lose your serve.
Why on earth should Kintaro be able to?? Clone Technque is for Illusionary shots. Not fast shots.
Shot's that have been simply hit by a player with much more technique than him can't be handled with just Clone Technique.
Kintaro will also Double Fault in Mental Pressure. Not just Hakamada. It's not like Kintaro has been shown to have a High Mental at all. His game plan against Hakamada was pathetic and it made me realize he is just an idiot with great speed, strength and stamina.
Yes Hakamada and Ochi have top class serves and a definete points for both.
Kintaro > Kite will be the difference @Ken.
---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------
If Tezuka!Niou can't hit it back Kintaro isn't doing it anytime soon.
Kintaro probably won't be able to return the serve initially and he'll choke on Mental Pressure initially too but given his character as the backup main character he might eventually find a way to break it. But it doesn't matter because his partner, Hakamada, will absolutely get no such bailouts and since Hakamada must serve and must receive half of Ochi's serves, this alone prevents their team from winning no matter how strong Kintaro is.
---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 PM ----------
In fact there is only one scenario where Hakamada/Kintaro can win, assuming that there's absolutely no way they'll be able to blow out Kite/Ochi. It'll have to start with Hakamada serving, so he'll serve on 4-4 (assuming all hold their serve, due to a lack of any other information) and you can argue at that point he's somehow not pressured (unlikely, but 4-4 is at least better than say, 5-4) and win his serve. Then it'll go into a tiebreaker. As mentioned before out of 8 points there are 3 points guaranteed to win by Ochi/Kite: Ochi's serve to Hakadama, and 2XHakamada's serves. But, at this point if Kintaro pulls a TnK level power up it is conceiveable he wins the other 5 points single handedly and thus win in a tiebreaker.
Note that even if Kintaro has TnK it won't matter in terms of winning any game that isn't a tiebreaker because TnK can't stop his partner from choking, and TnK doesn't allow Kintaro to return a serve for Hakamada (that'd be illegal), so Hakamada's serve (while under Mental Pressure) and Ochi's serve is still guaranteed win for Kite/Ochi even if Kintaro obtains TnK class abilities.
It's been a while, so here's another random match up.
Akutsu/Kintarou vs Oni/Irie
Oni and Irie take this no problem. Oni can destroy Kintarou. Kintarou is known to suck at doubles. Akutsu is good but he hasn't shown anything super special yet. Irie on the other hand has proven to be amazing. Irie and Oni would be a great pair. Kintarou and Akutsu wouldn't work together well and would lose. This would be a blow out.