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Thread: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

  1. #46
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    The two things that stuck out to me at the time was Gon's transformation and the Rose. Those were the two things that disappointed me.

    I liked the ants. Them being monsters didn't really annoy me. Yupi being the most non-human in appearance didn't annoy me. Villains can look like anything. I didn't think the Injyuu were out of place, for example, even though Worm was literally a giant worm (ok to be fair with limbs). But the Zodiacs really did look out of place to me. It's the crap they wear as well as the caricatured appearance. They shouldn't be TRYING to look like their respective zodiacs, they should BE it.

  2. #47
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Uriel's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    I thought the Rose was brilliant. The only way to defeat a monster without a silly power-up. I find interesting that many people see it was the worst end possible.

    And about the Zodiacs...is another arc :P
    The Sky is pouring
    The wind is blowing
    The sea looks red,
    a surging sea of flames
    looks like the entrance to hell
    'Perfect', the captain said.

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  4. #48
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Cinnabar's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    The two things that stuck out to me at the time was Gon's transformation and the Rose. Those were the two things that disappointed me.

    I liked the ants. Them being monsters didn't really annoy me. Yupi being the most non-human in appearance didn't annoy me. Villains can look like anything. I didn't think the Injyuu were out of place, for example, even though Worm was literally a giant worm (ok to be fair with limbs). But the Zodiacs really did look out of place to me. It's the crap they wear as well as the caricatured appearance. They shouldn't be TRYING to look like their respective zodiacs, they should BE it.
    IIRC, they are trying to look like their respective zodiacs. It's all because of Netero. I don't think everyone wants to be their respective zodiacs anyway; at least Pariston and Ging aren't even trying to look the part. They're all doing this to please Netero, not for their own reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

  5. #49
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kindredxiuxiu's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    I think the Rose is more.... tragic(?) than, for instance, a character powering up and training to become strong enough to defeat Meryem. Sure, the ending of the arc wasn't really that climactic, but, HxH is more than just overpowered characters beating the crap out of each other (Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the fights). There is a lot of heavy symbolism and allusions going on here, and when you put those into consideration, this seems like a fitting end.

    Gon's transformation would normally annoy me, but considering he paid a hefty price for it, I don't mind. I doubt it's going to be a form that Gon could easily switch in and out from.

  6. #50
    Artists of MH 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity FaustXIII's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
    has your friend watch the 99 series?
    He did watched the 1999 Series
    [

  7. #51
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnabar View Post
    IIRC, they are trying to look like their respective zodiacs. It's all because of Netero. I don't think everyone wants to be their respective zodiacs anyway; at least Pariston and Ging aren't even trying to look the part. They're all doing this to please Netero, not for their own reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
    Not really sure about them trying to please the old man. Either way they just end up looking silly like some One Piece characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by kindredxiuxiu View Post
    I think the Rose is more.... tragic(?) than, for instance, a character powering up and training to become strong enough to defeat Meryem. Sure, the ending of the arc wasn't really that climactic, but, HxH is more than just overpowered characters beating the crap out of each other (Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the fights). There is a lot of heavy symbolism and allusions going on here, and when you put those into consideration, this seems like a fitting end.

    Gon's transformation would normally annoy me, but considering he paid a hefty price for it, I don't mind. I doubt it's going to be a form that Gon could easily switch in and out from.
    I like the idea of blowing himself up but it came really, really suddenly and perhaps the explosion didn't really across in the manga - perhaps it will in animated form. As for the transformation, i was under the impression that people must spend time developing their nen or their hatsu - it's not something that you can just easily feel like and do. Kurapica took ages to materialize his chain and i imagine Netero spent an incomprehensible amount of time and will to materialize/emit the statue. The other strange thing with Gon's transformation is that it magically gave him better combat experience and reflexes as well as strength and nen. Here's a guy who couldn't even see, let alone respond, to Pitou powering up and easily evading sneak attacks and counterattacking with kicks. No way.

  8. #52
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnabar View Post
    IIRC, they are trying to look like their respective zodiacs. It's all because of Netero. I don't think everyone wants to be their respective zodiacs anyway; at least Pariston and Ging aren't even trying to look the part. They're all doing this to please Netero, not for their own reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
    That's right! The Zodiac Twelve and more accurately the Hunter Association respect and love the late Chairman Netero.

    ---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by GingFuriksu View Post
    Hmmm, I see.

    Yeah I totally get where you're coming from with the last sentence.

    Still though.. it just boggles my mind how you can hate this arc... Togashi fan's should have seen it coming. This arc is pretty much the Chapter Black arc of HxH. Everything from now on is going to hit the fan.
    Yes like the CHAPTER BLACK Arc from Yu Yu Hakusho!
    Sensui Seven = Chimera Ants
    Asato Kida, Mitsunari Yanagisawa and Yu Kaito = Knuckle, Shoot, Morau, Novu
    Kiyoshi "Seaman" Mitarai = Meleoron
    [

  9. #53
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Cinnabar's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kindredxiuxiu View Post
    I think the Rose is more.... tragic(?) than, for instance, a character powering up and training to become strong enough to defeat Meryem. Sure, the ending of the arc wasn't really that climactic, but, HxH is more than just overpowered characters beating the crap out of each other (Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the fights). There is a lot of heavy symbolism and allusions going on here, and when you put those into consideration, this seems like a fitting end.
    There's actually a lot of anti-climax in HxH. I can't say I particularly liked or disliked the Rose; it just kinda came out of nowhere. I don't think it was bad though.

    Quote Quote:
    Gon's transformation would normally annoy me, but considering he paid a hefty price for it, I don't mind. I doubt it's going to be a form that Gon could easily switch in and out from.
    I would usually by annoyed as well - and I admit, I was a little miffed after the Ant arc ended. But! When I saw how bad he looked, I didn't mind. I mean, just look at his hand. I think I'm a bit more wary of Alluka because he kinda tips the power balance imo, but I'll let Togashi roll with this. There's still a lot more we don't know after all, and we're not sure if the man will answer these mysteries.

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    Not really sure about them trying to please the old man. Either way they just end up looking silly like some One Piece characters.
    The Election arc does give something like a cartoon-y feel. I always thought they looked like that out of adoration or respect for Netero. I always saw him as a bit eccentric, but I forget if this is canon or headcanon.

    Quote Quote:
    I like the idea of blowing himself up but it came really, really suddenly and perhaps the explosion didn't really across in the manga - perhaps it will in animated form. As for the transformation, i was under the impression that people must spend time developing their nen or their hatsu - it's not something that you can just easily feel like and do. Kurapica took ages to materialize his chain and i imagine Netero spent an incomprehensible amount of time and will to materialize/emit the statue. The other strange thing with Gon's transformation is that it magically gave him better combat experience and reflexes as well as strength and nen. Here's a guy who couldn't even see, let alone respond, to Pitou powering up and easily evading sneak attacks and counterattacking with kicks. No way.
    I doubt Kurapika took ages to get his Nen that powerful; there was only about half or a little more than half a year in between the Hunter Exam and Yorkshin. The main reason why he seemed powerful in Yorkshin is because of three things: 1) Nen restriction, that goes without saying; 2) Emperor Time - he's kinda lucky in this regard since this was circumstantial (he just happens to be born from the Kurta clan) and not something gained through pain and hard work; 3) Strategy: I believe he was only able to get so far in part because of meticulous planning.

    I'm also not sure if Nen can be heightened through emotions, but if that is case, then I think it is plausible for Gon to transform since he put a very strict restriction and he was very emotionally-charged.
    Last edited by Cinnabar; October 05, 2012 at 10:02 AM.

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  11. #54
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kindredxiuxiu's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Kurapika has a very well-developed hatsu that has a lot of restrictions placed on it. His Emperor Time is pretty good, and he's a good fighter, and an amazing strategist. However, his abilities work best against the spiders.

    In Gon's case, he seemed to materialize into a future version of himself. Where that materialization came from, or if it's just Gon as an uber enhancer, I'm not sure. But I don't see it as something similar to Netero's stature materializations or Kurapika's chain materializations.

    Quote Quote:
    I'm also not sure if Nen can be heightened through emotions, but if that is case, then I think it is plausible for Gon to transform since he put a very strict restriction and he was very emotionally-charged.
    I think it could be. Words and emotions aren't always separate from each other.

    Quote Quote:
    I think I'm a bit more wary of Alluka because he kinda tips the power balance imo, but I'll let Togashi roll with this. There's still a lot more we don't know after all, and we're not sure if the man will answer these mysteries.
    Same here. I hope he puts some heavy restrictions on him, otherwise I see him more as a plot device than anything. Then again, the whole ending of the Chairman election arc seemed rushed to me.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Just because something is unexpected doesn't mean it's good. The Rose's poison effect seems pretty much tacked on, like you throw a nuke someone and then just in case it's also poisoned because you totally expect someone to survive a nuke. But if the poison is that potent they could've just get people to start spraying this stuff since Meryem presumably still has to breath. It also combos effortlessly with Morel's ability (the poison from the Rose poison is clearly colorless) so basically all they needed was Meleoron and Morel to defeat anybody if they were willing to lose 2 guys, which is a very small price to pay for a fight that determines the survival of humanity.

    It could've made sense if the Rose just weakened Meryem to the point where he can be defeated by normal means, except that was pretty much exactly the opposite of what happened.

    For Gon's transformation, unlike most manga characters Togashi was never shy about selling his potential. It's heavily implied he's supposed to be the most powerful guy in the world when he does grow up and properly trained so he basically just borrowed against his future self for the power. It seems like he didn't pay quite enough (such a power should just outright kill you with no possibilty of recovering, because other characters can't come close to defeat Pitou even if they sacrificed their life) but we can give him a break for getting the Main Character Discount. Of course then you have to ask if it's only a matter of resolve then why is it Pitou who is willing to die for Meryem don't have just as much resolve? Then you get into trying to calculate Pitou's max AP output and how much he may have used up (he never slept during the siege, maintained En forever, etc, etc) and you can at least handwave this stuff in the end. It's even acceptable that Gon eventually gets the Main Character Bailout but the way the Bailout occurred was really cheesy.

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  15. #56
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member GingFuriksu's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Just because something is unexpected doesn't mean it's good. The Rose's poison effect seems pretty much tacked on, like you throw a nuke someone and then just in case it's also poisoned because you totally expect someone to survive a nuke. But if the poison is that potent they could've just get people to start spraying this stuff since Meryem presumably still has to breath. It also combos effortlessly with Morel's ability (the poison from the Rose poison is clearly colorless) so basically all they needed was Meleoron and Morel to defeat anybody if they were willing to lose 2 guys, which is a very small price to pay for a fight that determines the survival of humanity.

    It could've made sense if the Rose just weakened Meryem to the point where he can be defeated by normal means, except that was pretty much exactly the opposite of what happened.

    For Gon's transformation, unlike most manga characters Togashi was never shy about selling his potential. It's heavily implied he's supposed to be the most powerful guy in the world when he does grow up and properly trained so he basically just borrowed against his future self for the power. It seems like he didn't pay quite enough (such a power should just outright kill you with no possibilty of recovering, because other characters can't come close to defeat Pitou even if they sacrificed their life) but we can give him a break for getting the Main Character Discount. Of course then you have to ask if it's only a matter of resolve then why is it Pitou who is willing to die for Meryem don't have just as much resolve? Then you get into trying to calculate Pitou's max AP output and how much he may have used up (he never slept during the siege, maintained En forever, etc, etc) and you can at least handwave this stuff in the end. It's even acceptable that Gon eventually gets the Main Character Bailout but the way the Bailout occurred was really cheesy.
    The part where you said "why doesn't Pitou have the same resolve as Gon" ..... dude, he got his head blown off and still got back and and cut off Gon's arm... LOL But then Gon pretty much made a Spirit Bomb and obliterated him. You can't do much when you're in ashes. Also, like a lot of people said, Gon's power exploded and he turned in to that form partially do to his anger bottled up for over a month.
    Last edited by GingFuriksu; October 05, 2012 at 08:33 PM.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GingFuriksu View Post
    The part where you said "why doesn't Pitou have the same resolve as Gon" ..... dude, he got his head blown off and still got back and and cut off Gon's arm... LOL But then Gon pretty much made a Spirit Bomb and obliterated him. You can't do much when you're in ashes. Also, like a lot of people said, Gon's power exploded and he turned in to that form partially do to his anger bottled up for over a month.
    The starting power level is Gon is nowhere close to being able to fight Pitou. Pitou basically estimates he can do a one-hit kill but he didn't do it because it's not enough to kill Gon or even everyone else, because if Komugi died then he failed his mission.

    So if Gon has some resolve that makes him stronger than Pitou then Pitou should be able to get the same amount of resolve to change it back to their existing difference. I guess you can say Pitou might not have as much room to grow but keep in mind all the Royals start out with >Gon talent. All of them can use Aura by just looking at it. They don't even need anyone to tell them how to realize this potential. Maybe you can say that's an inherent property of their race but there's no reason to believe Pitou is less talented than the most capable human being given the Ants are shown to be a superior species compared to human.

    Because Pitou is clearly not afraid to die, whatever power he uses that kills himself should instantly kill even uber Gon because they're using the same amount of restriction (kill self).

    But then one of the often overlooked part is that Pitou is greatly distressed throughout the entire arc, and additionally he may have jepordized his potential by learning an ability that's completely opposite of his school (healing requires Reinforcement, exactly opposite of his starting school). So you can make an argument that you've an affinity mismatch (Pitou is Specialize but his fighting style takes no advantage of that school), learning mismatch (he should not have learned Reinforcement-dominant moves), and the fact that he never slept and used a lot of AP prior to the fight even started can explain it. It's probably not an ideal explanation, but it is satisfactory.

  17. #58
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kiba's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    well i dont hate the arc
    i hate pufu because he always thinks so long and wasted pages like in the manga volume 29# i did buy today
    it was just annoying if you ask me

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    @Phantron

    I think Pitou's Dr.Blythe heals people through actual surgery, so only Manipulation was needed. But I'm not sure why he had to Emit/Materialize and Manipulate his combat hatsu (Terpsichora?), still, you'd be right that there really is nothing particularly 'Specialization' about it unless he had something similar to Emperor Time.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Half The Sky View Post
    @Phantron

    I think Pitou's Dr.Blythe heals people through actual surgery, so only Manipulation was needed. But I'm not sure why he had to Emit/Materialize and Manipulate his combat hatsu (Terpsichora?), still, you'd be right that there really is nothing particularly 'Specialization' about it unless he had something similar to Emperor Time.
    All recovery related techniques are centered around Reinforcement. Kurapika showed off his improved recovery skills while in Emperor Time mode, implying that the recovery technique is more effective thanks to his 100% modifier during Emperor Time mode.

    When Meryem got blown up by the Rose, both Pufu and Yupi stated quite clearly that Pitou could fix even that up. If you look at Meryem's stage it's clear he's way beyond what 'surgery' can save you.

    As a comparable example, Gon got his arm snapped in the Hunter Exam. The Hunters operated on him while he's unconscious, and he still got his arm in a cast, so while his arm was fixed it's definitely not back to 100% and seems like it took a week or so before it healed fully.

    On the other hand, Pitou snapped his own arm and then recovered with Doctor Blythe, and the implication is quite clear that his arm is back to 100% after it.

    You can assume that Pitou can materialize someone with surgery skill equal to a top notch doctor, but the recovery actions he performs is beyond what can be explained by medical science. Presumably the explanation is that anything that goes beyond what medical science can do eats up Pitou's aura reserve, and this has to spent at the Reinforcement modifier, which is his worst school. Pitou has stated that this technique is horribly inefficient and very draining on him (he can't even use the minimum basic Aura to cover himself at this time) and it's undoubtedly also due to how far away the technique is from his natural school.

    Now why did Pitou chose to learn such a thing? It can either be because he's either whimisical, or that he chose to learn this ability because someone has to have a recovery techinque amongst the Royals. Given Pufu has the ability to reset learned abilities, even if Pitou made a mistake earlier he could change it and just have someone else learn a recovery technique. I got the feeling Pitou's role was supposed to be the Royal that's always by Meryem's side so it'd be most logical for him to have a recovery technique even if it's totally the wrong school. After all, Pitou really doesn't care about his self-preservation so long as it benefits Meryem. Honestly, Pitou's techniques are ill-suited for combat. Controlling himself just isn't a great idea (if control yourself gets you more powerful than reinforce yourself, that'd imply manipulation beats reinforcement at strength, which is illogical), and it almost seems like his technique was designed with his own death in mind.
    Last edited by Phantron; October 06, 2012 at 01:01 AM.

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