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Thread: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

  1. #76
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member GingFuriksu's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Yes, but here's the problem, suppose he actually knew Rose is poisonous (which should be a common fact), then you'd have a much weaker story overall. Either he is 'good' and just say "alright guys, we all got poisoned so no point to blow more stuff up out of spite", so we skip straight to the Komugi and the Ants die (and Pitou still fights uber Gon). Same ending but pretty unexciting.

    If he still has the conqueror personality, he can obviously take out multiple nations before he finally died, and Pufu will launch whatever nukes they have (NGL clearly has them). It's possible the conqueror Meryem still finds conquest pointless if he can't win (after all, he views conquest as a duty of being the supreme being, not because he enjoys it), and then in that case we get the same result. In either case you'd basically have to cut out the vast majority of the action in the Ants arc.

    BUT, just because what's logical isn't exciting is not an excuse to have such an unrealistic lapse of common sense (not knowing about Rose seems to be equivalent of not knowing what nukes are in real life). Pufu and Meryem basically had a plot forced moment of stupidity so that the part after the Rose actually make sense. Otherwise, there would be no suspense at all. Either Meryem just flat out kills everyone or he immediately resigns knowing he's not going to live anyway.
    You make it sound as if the Rose is common knowledge in the HxH world. My memory is a little foggy of the arc ( I'm currently re-reading HxH ) What chapter specifically did it mention stuff like the rose and etc. is common knowledge ? Just wondering, I probably forgot.

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  3. #77
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Uriel's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    I doubt anything but Meryem could survive enough to check that there is after-effects of the Rose. :/
    The Sky is pouring
    The wind is blowing
    The sea looks red,
    a surging sea of flames
    looks like the entrance to hell
    'Perfect', the captain said.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Palm isn't exactly the kind of person you'd expect to have a top level secret clearance, and at any rate even if you need the equivalent of a top secret clearance to know about this stuff, Meryem is head of the state. Pufu has contingency plan to disguise a Hunter attack as a political coup and he has human contacts. There's no way he wouldn't know about stuff like 'does this country have Rose (they sure do)?' or "does Rose blow a lot of things up?"

    The poison from Rose seems to spread further than the blast radius. I mean sure nobody is going to survive the Rose at point blank range outside of Meryem but presumably the power of the bomb goes down the further you're away from the blast, so that's why it's also poisonous. Again the fact that Palm knows about the Rose being poisonous implies this knowledge can't be hard to get for someone who is the head of state (Meryem). Note that the Ants don't really shun technology. Their controlled army uses machine guns, tanks, and jets. They obviously know high yield explosives can be pretty dangerous. It's one thing they probably won't use bombs because their goal is more of a conquest/enslave deal, so it wouldn't really do them much good to just blow up the world. It'd be sort of like Sergent Frog where you got these aliens with planet busting weapons that you can buy at a vending machine attempting to conquer Earth with small arms because accidentally destroying the planet sort of ruins your attempt for conquest/enslaving the local population. I can see Meryem being too proud to use weapons that only exist to blow things up (remember, his role is to rule/lead, not annihilate) but he'd at least keep that stuff in mind, and Pufu would definitely keep them as a valid option to use against humans.

  5. #79
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Even if there is evident similarities between "our" nuke and the "rose", there are still huge differencies , like the fact that contrary to the nuke the "rose" is made to be used, low budget and possessed by a vast number of nation. The nuke is mostly a leverage, hasn't been used except two time (when only one country had it). We can't affirm that this is the equivalent of the nuke in hxh, and not for example a specific mass destruction weapon, chemical weapon as i'm sure there is a ton which are prohibited in reality.
    Then, we have to also put things in perspective. The ants were young and wild, genuine sometimes, they lacked experience, they didn't know shoji (basically chess game), or even nen at first. So even, if we assert that the "rose" was of common knowledge wich seems to be the case as a journalist transmit the info (use of the rose) among various lies reporting the events, making her report. It 's still very possible that the ants weren't used to these types of weapon, concept (like with gunji or shoji before ). There was a miscalculation for sure as netero said to meruem but nothing incoherent.
    Moreover strategically, these type of offensive were very difficult to put together, knowing that this was a rescue mission (the citizens wouldn't have to be exposed), while the rose (or any similar weapon) is more suitable for terrorists attacks. With pito's en mastery, and meruem and his guards speed, it was way more complicated. They had to isolate him from his guard, and from the citizen. Which would have been impossible if Meruem hadn't follow nétéro by himself.
    They were too naive, but they were young and inexperienced even if they were supremely smart, they didn't excpected it, and they shouldn't have , it was a very risky plan.
    Last edited by Mylesime; October 18, 2012 at 12:57 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member GingFuriksu's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mylesime View Post
    Even if there is evident similarities between "our" nuke and the "rose", there are still huge differencies , like the fact that contrary to the nuke the "rose" is made to be used, low budget and possessed by a vast number of nation. The nuke is mostly a leverage, hasn't been used except two time (when only one country had it). We can't affirm that this is the equivalent of the nuke in hxh, and not for example a specific mass destruction weapon, chemical weapon as i'm sure there is a ton which are prohibited in reality.
    Then, we have to also put things in perspective. The ants were young and wild, genuine sometimes, they lacked experience, they didn't know shoji (basically chess game), or even nen at first. So even, if we assert that the "rose" was of common knowledge wich seems to be the case as a journalist transmit the info (use of the rose) among various lies reporting the events, making her report. It 's still very possible that the ants weren't used to these types of weapon, concept (like with gunji or shoji before ). There was a miscalculation for sure as netero said to meruem but nothing incoherent.
    Moreover strategically, these type of offensive were very difficult to put together, knowing that this was a rescue mission (the citizens wouldn't have to be exposed), while the rose (or any similar weapon) is more suitable for terrorists attacks. With pito's en mastery, and meruem and his guards speed, it was way more complicated. They had to isolate him from his guard, and from the citizen. Which would have been impossible if Meruem hadn't follow nétéro by himself.
    They were too naive, but they were young and inexperienced even if they were supremely smart, they didn't excpected it, and they shouldn't have , it was a very risky plan.
    I agree. They were smart but hey they were JUST born, they didn't have much experience. A good example is Gon. People ALWAYS say Gon is VERY powerful, he has good strategy, he has a SHIT ton of aura but in combat he isn't that good... why ? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE EXPERIENCE.

  8. #81
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    The Ants went through the effort to setup a puppet government under Diego so it's not like they have no idea how the worldview works. It's pretty hard to miss a weapon of mass destruction that is even more widely available than nukes in real life comparatively (every random nation has Rose in HXH).

    As a conqueror/enslaver type of species the Ants probably would have no reason to ever use the Rose for offensive purposes but surely they'll keep it in mind. There's a reason why they're creating the army because that way the high ranked Ants can just sit back and order the army to do the work instead of risking themselves, even though it sure doesn't look like anyone can fight the Royal Guards let alone Meryem. In particular something like an uncureable poison should be something that the Ants would pay especial attention to. You can say the Ants might just assume they can DBZ their way out of an explosion but they're definitely not immune to poison.

  9. #82
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Raad's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    If i had to aswer to the question of this topic, I'd have to go back to when I was confused myself by that arc. At that time I've only watched the anime and didn't have access to the manga, I had no idea of what happened after Greed Island (I assumed GI was the next step after YSC, the arab version ended with Kuroro's rescue). So when I looked it up on the internet and found out on a site (I still didn't know about scans) that the arc after GI was gonna be about the ants, I was like: "What are you thinking Togashi?! (O_O)", I understood that the world of HxH had such creatures, but for an entire arc to revolve around those things... and that feeling was amplified when I was able to download some rars covering the attack on Zazan's palace. "This is gonna be aweful!" That's what I thought then, not only the drawings were bad, but it was all about fights and escalations in power (at least that's the way I looked at it given the mood I was put into). But after I was able to read the entire arc much later I wondered what I was thinking. The guy handled his story much much better than what I expected! Deaths, plans, nen fights, very interesting new characters, I loved it all and I can completely understand why someone would consider this arc the best!

  10. #83
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner powil's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    My favorite arc is Yorknew city, because the mood and atmosphere are so real from start to finish.

    My other favorite arc is the Chimera Ants because of its awesome conclusion. But I almost quit the first few chapters of the Ant arc because I found the exposition off tangent to what HxH was in my opinion. It's like suddenly we're talking insect biology? The failing art didn't help either

    Plus, monster design wasn't that coherent. Well, what to expect from a race of ants who basically mix random forms.

    Another thing I disliked was that the promise of a huge battle that didn't really paid off for me. I expected more hunters and nen users eventually getting pulled into the conflict versus the ants. And it kind of didn't happen.

    And after the fight, Kaito's reincarnation, and that Alluka kid's ability were just so out of place - more than the rose, for me. but I let these pass co'z they're minor characters.

    What saved this arc for me was the really awesome ending with the major players. I can see how it's very easy to dislike this arc - I almost did!
    Last edited by powil; October 24, 2012 at 03:21 PM.

  11. #84
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    I think that the people who dislike the Chimera Ant arc are mentally retarded. Not only is it the best arc in the series hands down, but it's also the greatest arc in any manga ever, and the great story of all time in any medium. I think it's an absolute masterpiece.

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  13. #85
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Honestly, Togashi doesn't really care what fans think. If he wants to write about ants or a MMORPG that's what he does. HXH actually follows the rough outline of Level E pretty well (live action RPG in V2, deadly ant-like alien species in V3). That said he should be prepared to take some flak in the sense that they're obviously not very exciting topics. Maybe it's okay for a short story like level E where in the climatic battle of the Color Rangers versus Final Boss, the Final Boss offered to solve the issue diplomatically but that doesn't quite work for Hunters versus Meryem. There probably isn't a good way to resolve it because the Ants pretty much start out at a level that's beyond the limitation of humanity. If the problem of the generic fighting manga is that the important henchman are usually too weak, the problem with the Ants is that even the important henchman are mega strong and defeating even one of them was borderline on impossible (i.e. everyone minus Netero put together wouldn't have a chance of beating Pufu or Pitou, and realistically they wouldn't have any chance on Yupi if he didn't decide to kill every one of Morel's clones even when he already knows where he is).

    I guess originally the matchup is intended to be something like Dai-no-daiboken where the good guy's entire strat involves getting the hero to Vearn unharmed and they don't really care how many guys needed to die to do this (even though none of them even died). Novu was saying that 1 win and 3 losses is okay as long as the one who lost was Meryem, but of course they were nowhere close to doing that.

    There was a whole mess of fake info that always involved Pufu betraying Meryem and honestly you'd need that kind of power shift for there to be any meaningful combat. When factoring the Ants' natural durability it's not clear if the attack force could've even defeated a single Royal Guard. Netero would definitely do damage on them, but it's not clear if he'll run out of aura before he can take one down, given all the Royals have ridiculous endurance too. For example we see the Royals take a hit from Meryem who was at least somewhat serious and it's only a bleeding wound, while we know Meryem can KO any human in one hit effortlessly.

  14. #86
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    I'm one of the people who started HxH during the ant arc...the hiatuses didn't bother me much really, but the art at first did...but I just went along, since I've read series with generally considered weak art and I still liked them...and I think that the ant arc is unique and stands out from all the other arcs, and I also think it was brilliant and the best IMO...

    I wasn't a hater, so I'd like to point out that maybe there are other stuff too that people don't like...I didn't read the entire thread so if you guys mentioned this already, then w/e

    PS: I managed to get myself some of the ant arc volumes, and the art is superb...so it should be read in volumes I think...

    PS2: if anyone has the earlier volume releases raw or otherwise pls PM me
    Last edited by benelori; October 29, 2012 at 12:54 PM.

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  16. #87
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    I'm one of the people who started HxH during the ant arc...the hiatuses didn't bother me much really, but the art at first did...but I just went along, since I've read series with generally considered weak art and I still liked them...and I think that the ant arc is unique and stands out from all the other arcs, and I also think it was brilliant and the best IMO...

    I wasn't a hater, so I'd like to point out that maybe there are other stuff too that people don't like...I didn't read the entire thread so if you guys mentioned this already, then w/e

    PS: I managed to get myself some of the ant arc volumes, and the art is superb...so it should be read in volumes I think...

    PS2: if anyone has the earlier volume releases raw or otherwise pls PM me
    I don't care too much about art but I certainly have seen better from HXH itself. It doesn't make the Ant arc less enjoyable for me, but I can certainly see why people would expect a consistent level of art throughout HXH.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    What the hell are you guys debating?!?!?! The President was being Hindered by Partison the HXH Association is pretty much run by supporters and followers and Partison held all of this so he always made the President's job hard. This is why certain Ants weren't captured right away because of his meddling and so forth and so forth. The Chimera Ants weren't born in the Human world they were born outside of it so no they don't have thorough knowledge of the Human world. By the Time the Royal Guards were born and Mereyum they were just really smart. They had and never needed any man made weapons gun, bombs,tanks, jets No need what so ever. And none of them sat down and read any encyclopedia's to educate themselves. All their info came from the queens and the human food they ate. So the Rose bomb was to none of their knowledge and even if it was they still probably wouldn't fear it thinking they were far superior than a Man made bomb. They only took control over East Gordo to lure all of it's inhabitants under a puppet human leader for their selection which was to breed around 100K Nen ants if they succeeded there wouldn't be enough pro Hunters to stop them. I seriously don't get the argument over this Rose bomb besides that it was the plot device that killed the King Ant and poisoned him. The Rose was also mentioned as a small Nuke which was cheaply made, so the poison was more than likely radiation and Mereryum took that at point blank range........The Chimera Ant arc was pretty darn interesting only think that sucked was indeed the art but Togashi was sick and it got better towards the end much better. Other than that it's just interesting to see him create such a immensely strong character that was taking out with a bomb and not a nen ability or hunters...Hope we don't see anything or anyone that strong again, cause the President who's fairly one of the strongest Nen users could hardly faze him even after thousands of attacks.

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  19. #89
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member GingFuriksu's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    What the hell are you guys debating?!?!?! The President was being Hindered by Partison the HXH Association is pretty much run by supporters and followers and Partison held all of this so he always made the President's job hard. This is why certain Ants weren't captured right away because of his meddling and so forth and so forth. The Chimera Ants weren't born in the Human world they were born outside of it so no they don't have thorough knowledge of the Human world. By the Time the Royal Guards were born and Mereyum they were just really smart. They had and never needed any man made weapons gun, bombs,tanks, jets No need what so ever. And none of them sat down and read any encyclopedia's to educate themselves. All their info came from the queens and the human food they ate. So the Rose bomb was to none of their knowledge and even if it was they still probably wouldn't fear it thinking they were far superior than a Man made bomb. They only took control over East Gordo to lure all of it's inhabitants under a puppet human leader for their selection which was to breed around 100K Nen ants if they succeeded there wouldn't be enough pro Hunters to stop them. I seriously don't get the argument over this Rose bomb besides that it was the plot device that killed the King Ant and poisoned him. The Rose was also mentioned as a small Nuke which was cheaply made, so the poison was more than likely radiation and Mereryum took that at point blank range........The Chimera Ant arc was pretty darn interesting only think that sucked was indeed the art but Togashi was sick and it got better towards the end much better. Other than that it's just interesting to see him create such a immensely strong character that was taking out with a bomb and not a nen ability or hunters...Hope we don't see anything or anyone that strong again, cause the President who's fairly one of the strongest Nen users could hardly faze him even after thousands of attacks.
    Yeah and the funny thing is that I finished reading Volume 28 of HxH a couple of days ago and it said that the Rose was banned from production years before the series even started........ so yeah.. lol I really don't see what's the big deal with the rose. Yeah there are still Roses out there because most of the Countries agreed to at least keep what they've already made, but even so, in the current time line of HxH the rose is rare as hell.

  20. #90
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Chimera Ant arc haters ?

    Err, the Ants know enough about humanity to understand how to set up a puppet government or even compete in recreational activity. Pufu and Meryem is often shown reading a large number of books and they somehow missed the fact that there's some all powerful explosive with a poison that is said to be uncureable?

    The Ants are probably too perfect as an ideal invasion species that there's no possible way they could overlook something like the Rose. They clearly studied human culture enough to know how to deal with them. And no the whole Pariston thing is irrelevent because the Hunters do not have authority over another soveriegn nation to begin with, which is why the Ants set up a puppet government. Netero could've gotten whoever he wants and it'd just be more food for Meryem.

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