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View Poll Results: Who will win?

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  • Sanada Gen'ichirou

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  • Irie Kanata

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Thread: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

  1. #31
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I gave an explanation why, despite the discrepancy, the situation makes sense and no other stats are necessary, did I not?
    It doesn't suggest Irie didn't use stamina. He was running around for Atobe til 5-0.
    We saw him running. Something is up. Something must have compensated for this apparent '2' in Stamina.
    We saw Krauser with similar stamina who ran for just 3 games in a row.


    Where are you getting this from? Most of the time he just stood somewhere and placed the ball so that Atobe just barely got to it. Furthermore Irie has an insane speed stat, so he doesn't have to go all out to catch up to shots. Compare it with Kikumaru's and Mukahi's acrobatics for example; Kikumaru can last longer by not going all out, same thing should apply to Irie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Yes, and that something was that Atobe had trouble moving around and Irie could easily dominate him without having to go near his limits for a long time. There's nothing that indicates it has anything to do with high mental or whatnot.
    You are going to tell me he wasn't moving around a lot? http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/46/2

    http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/43/7
    He was moving around.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; October 02, 2012 at 12:19 PM.

  2. #32
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    It doesn't suggest Irie didn't use stamina. He was running around for Atobe til 5-0.
    We saw him running. Something is up. Something must have compensated for this apparent '2' in Stamina.
    We saw Krauser with similar stamina who ran for just 3 games in a row.
    And Krauser's speed is 3 whereas Irie's is 6. Irie would have had no trouble with catching up to any of the shots for those 5 games if he had wanted to. This suggests that he slowed down on purpose, and you simply don't use up as much stamina when not performing at your best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Where are you getting this from? Most of the time he just stood somewhere and placed the ball so that Atobe just barely got to it. Furthermore Irie has an insane speed stat, so he doesn't have to go all out to catch up to shots. Compare it with Kikumaru's and Mukahi's acrobatics for example; Kikumaru can last longer by not going all out, same thing should apply to Irie.
    Look at the first page you linked. Irie hits smash after smash from the same position while Atobe runs left and right just to barely catch up to them. On the second one he makes a step to the left, surely this takes greats amounts of energy. So yeah, he was moving. Did he move in a way that takes up lots of energy? No.

    How about these to illustrate my point:

    http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/45/3
    http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/45/5

    Irie just casually hits shots at that point and makes Atobe run. Not sure whether you wanted me to elaborate on the comparison?

  3. #33
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    Post Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    And Krauser's speed is 3 whereas Irie's is 6. Irie would have had no trouble with catching up to any of the shots for those 5 games if he had wanted to. This suggests that he slowed down on purpose, and you simply don't use up as much stamina when not performing at your best.
    Look at the first page you linked. Irie hits smash after smash from the same position while Atobe runs left and right just to barely catch up to them. On the second one he makes a step to the left, surely this takes greats amounts of energy. So yeah, he was moving. Did he move in a way that takes up lots of energy? No.
    He did things like this for a 3 digit tie-break. And you think that doesn't require any stamina?
    As if smashing the way he was wouldn't eventually take up stamina in a 187-188probably tie-break.
    It just isnt easy no matter which way you view that.

    In my 2nd link he is running. You simply cannot prove he wasin the same position for the whole tie-break with this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    How about these to illustrate my point:

    http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/45/3
    http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/45/5

    Irie just casually hits shots at that point and makes Atobe run. Not sure whether you wanted me to elaborate on the comparison?
    He is at the net here. http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/45/3

    Baseline at the next page. http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/45/4
    You cannot prove he didn't run around. 6-6 187-187 long? That is too long for a player who has very weak stamina.
    Something is clearly up there.

  4. #34
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    @kaoZ thanks for showing me PP and irie super shot in manga chapt. but towards phantom, that just shows a fast shot. no where does it suggest it was 2nd fastest in all the world, or 2nd to TnK.

    that's a speed shot no doubt. that was basically irie revealing he was acting and did a super shot that caught akiba off guard.

    it was drawn for dramatic effect by kononmi sensei
    I can show pot drawings of sanada's Swift like the wind, where konomi draws the picutre where sanada hits it to echizen and echizen uses the same technique and sanada is just moving not know wtf just happened at the moment.

    we just know its fast, lets not compare it to TnK, being the fastest shot on record, unless other managa chars with good skills can comment on them.
    this match would be a close game for sure.

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  6. #35
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    If the POT wikia is correct and Kikumaru only has a 3,5 in speed... that means that Irie is damn fast lol
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    I know it's tough on you jose...imagine me
    fapfapfap


  7. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Either mental can cover for stamina (there are numerous cases where if people have enough willpower they can overcome fatigue) or that Irie's technique is so high that he's expanding nearly no energy while playing tennis. Until there's a scene that shows Irie actually getting tired, he's currently one of the highest stamina character in NPOT despite an outright contradiction to his listed stats.

    Generally speaking it'd appear once you break through whatever the limit someone's technique allow them to use comfortably can return they start losing energy. For example in Tezuka versus Sanada, you can see he starts sweating significantly after he starts using Phantom because the Phantom clearly beyond his comfortable limit. That said since Irie has a mental of 7, he can easily pull the same 'willpower above all' thing that Tezuka always do (who only has a mental of 5).

  8. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    I don't understand why people are so perplexed by Irie's stamina. The answer is simple to me. Atobe has high stamina within the context of a ONE SET MATCH because he is a middle-schooler. Irie has low stamina within the context of a THREE SET MATCH because he is a high-schooler. That makes their stamina around the same.

  9. #38
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    As if smashing the way he was wouldn't eventually take up stamina in a 187-188probably tie-break.
    It just isnt easy no matter which way you view that.
    Key word being eventually. They both seem pretty exhausted at 187-187, but when Atobe starts with 5 stamina and loses x per point and Irie starts with 2 but only loses x/5 or so, there's nothing strange about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    In my 2nd link he is running. You simply cannot prove he wasin the same position for the whole tie-break with this here.
    And you can't prove that he was moving in a way that required a lot of energy. Or that mental has any influence on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    6-6 187-187 long? That is too long for a player who has very weak stamina.
    Something is clearly up there.
    I'm sorry but if you fail to grasp that playing far below the level you're capable of requires much less stamina than normal, I don't know what else to tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    I don't understand why people are so perplexed by Irie's stamina. The answer is simple to me. Atobe has high stamina within the context of a ONE SET MATCH because he is a middle-schooler. Irie has low stamina within the context of a THREE SET MATCH because he is a high-schooler. That makes their stamina around the same.
    I would question this. It would kinda make the whole comparison completely worthless if you apply different standards to the charts. Why show them to us in the first place?

  10. #39
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I'm sorry but if you fail to grasp that playing far below the level you're capable of requires much less stamina than normal, I don't know what else to tell you.
    It is simply illogical. Secondly, they went would have been more than two set's long. After the 5-0. So since you cannot prove that Irie stayed in the same place the whole time, and you cannot prove how often he was playing ''far below the level they're capable of''.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Key word being eventually. They both seem pretty exhausted at 187-187, but when Atobe starts with 5 stamina and loses x per point and Irie starts with 2 but only loses x/5 or so, there's nothing strange about it.
    You don't know how long this happened.
    After 5-0, we're talking 7 more games and 187 points. Of those, you have no idea how long Irie was running around for, or in the same position for.

    We did see him run around at times, and the game went to 187 all. So there just had to have been stamina drainage.
    Just the fact there was a 100-point+ tiebreak and we have witnessed both characters sprinting around, their must be stamina loss on both sides.

    ---------- Post added at 07:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    If the POT wikia is correct and Kikumaru only has a 3,5 in speed... that means that Irie is damn fast lol
    That was in New Prince of Tennis.
    It says Anime OVA however.
    I've removed it, but they are the stats Kikumaru was given by the NPoT anime. They are doing a bad job of SPoT this company.
    Kikumaru also has a 2 in Stamina, meaning Shishido/Ootori and Oishi must be 1.5 max, according to NPoT Anime.

    Ignore the anime's stats. Manga/Databooks and Fanbooks are the only things to confidently go by.

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  12. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I would question this. It would kinda make the whole comparison completely worthless if you apply different standards to the charts. Why show them to us in the first place?
    If you go to college, you bring your high school transcripts. However, your high school GPA will have a different context than your older friend's college GPA. How do we know the middle schooler's stat charts were not from middle school, being carried over into a high school camp?

  13. #41
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    And you can't prove that he was moving in a way that required a lot of energy. Or that mental has any influence on it.
    Well, he was sprinting across for a return in the panel I linked, and if his Stamina is a 2 and he could have been doing so on other occasions, how could he have reached 187, if he has a 2 in Stamina?

    Krauser lasted like 4 games lol. You think Krauser and Irie have the exact same stamina then Kaoz?
    Something had to compensate for Irie's lack of Stamina. If he was controlling how much energy he exerted, then that would be down to his Mental knowing how to do it.
    This is referenced back to Hiyoshi VS Ryoma, when Tachibana says Hiyoshi is playing an Adult's game. and here.
    It is implied there is the issue of pacing yourself, that is another part of a players game, more the Mental aspect.

    So if Krauser and Irie have equal stamina, do you see Krauser doing what Irie did?
    Technique or Mental must have contributed to make him to last so long.

    Kenya is the fastest in the series, you think handing him a 2 in Stamina would let him reach 187-all?

  14. #42
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 3 vs Team 5 Singles 1] Sanada vs Irie

    Sanada Gen'ichirou: 8 votes
    Irie Kanata: 6 votes

    Winner: Sanada Gen'ichirou

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