Naruto 605 Discussion

[Invader]

looking at what that wood can do am $$$$$# we didnt see Tsunade getting wooded

That's what she said. (RIMSHOT) Seriously though, I think we all would very much like to see Tsunade getting wood.

As far as Obito's change is concerned... Pretty much as anticipated. This was all set up in chapter 602 where Madara said this reality is "hell itself"...

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c602/15.html

At first Obito is like, "OK - sure - this reality is hell... Whatever.. B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b - cuckoo! Where's the door?" Now we see him fully accepting what Madara said. And yeah, the graphic violence and blood dripping everywhere and the death of his would-be girlfriend, apparently at the hand of what would be his supposed best-friend while he's half-mangled while wearing a plant-man suit... "OK - yeah I guess this IS hell..." It just makes Obito's initial fear on seeing Madara's sickle that he was going to take him to hell both funny and foreshadowing at the same time. As far as Obito is concerned, hell couldn't be any worse than what actual reality has dished out to him. So he will buy in to Madara's plan to change reality from hell into heaven with his Moon Eye plan. Sure - why not? Heck - maybe he is even so far gone that he thinks he actually DID die and is in hell and that this is his way out. Either way, it makes him committed to the plan at any cost to the point where he sees himself as a good guy and everyone else as a bad guy trying to stop him.

[da_ni]

Um, because Minato had to win due to plot. Pretty sure I said that.

Changing your claim huh? And as previously pointed out, if it was merely Obito drawing upon spiral Zetsus power, then there would be no reason to proclaim it the way he did. Why would spiral Zetsu be surprised at Obito using his body when the entire point of their combination was so Obito could use his power in the first place?

Not merely him, but all three Hokages an Orochimaru. That "Kage level" battle isn't even a chuunin level battle in the current era. The power progression goes directly against your argument, that Kishi has everyone's power already preplanned. Actually no, that wouldn't be anticlimactic. Just loom at DragonBall. Early on, the level of power was made clear with the destruction of the moon. After that, destroying a planet isn't much of a major feat. Same is true in One Piece and maybe Bleach. I believe I can name multiple series that the powerlevels didn't grow majorly. So it's not just a suggestion, but easily proven fact.

Mmm. Considering the argument was over Zetsu being able to use Mokuton, not simply being made of it (which I already acknowledged), them transforming due to contact with cloaked Naruto really doesn't affect my claim.

Also, a note for future reference, Mangareader doesn't work for those in the US.

Those were the main evidence used, which fits right along the Deva Path/Minato example. Question: If something is proven false, how can it be used as proof of foreshadowing? Cause the argument about the pins don't work anymore. Other posters pointed out how the winkles around his face changed from making him look older to looking like injuries.

Before he looked aged, as if he really was Madara or someone from that era. It was then changed to looking like an injury in recent chapters.

I didn't claim at all that "every single thing was being made up", instead my argument was about some things mainly in recent chapter clearly being made up as he went along. Your the one who claimed all this was foreshadowed and I was apparently ignoring that. I then pointed to several examples of things being introduced or changed to help show my point. Interestingly enough, you never answered my point about Kakashi's age change or him going from allowing Rin to die to murdering her. Or the issue with his MS, which was implied early in Part Two to be a recent gain. And that's not even factoring in his interviews, where we have him saying one thing and then doing another, or the databooks for what that's worth. Actually, the screwiness of the databooks is actually the best evidence, since them being written directly by Kishi shows what I'm saying.

The fact remains that I can actually show several examples to support my claim, whereas your argument about there being foreshadowing of Tobi always being meant as Obito and possessing Mokuton has nothing to back it up. And again, I point out that it was you who claimed this all was foreshadowed long before. So you can't come in now and mock me for wanting said foreshadowing when you basically been claiming it was always there.

This.... I don't agree with everything you said... but this part is right on... If you reede the databooks thouroully (like i have) you will find so many inconsistincies with what was going on, specially since the part Tobi was revealled as beeing Obito (i could name at least a duzen points proving it, since Kakashi beeing said to be promoted to Chuuni at age 6 and we now saw him getting the promotion much older, many others...)

The fact is that many of the revelations made currently go against what was previously stated... It's like him saying "everything i wright is true, until i wright saying otherwise"... That's what's happening now... And about the powerlevels in Naruto??? They have changed soooooooooooooooooooooooo much... Take Kakashi's example, the first we saw him using Sharingan, for like 10/20 min, he was knocked out and couldn't stand alone on his feet, he then sugested he had only chakra to use 3 Raikiri's in a day, and now he can use more than 3 Kamuys and kee fighting! Don't get me wrong, i love his character, i actually think he's one of the strongest ninjas in Naruto, unlike many think, but this is absurd... Many of the outcomes of the fights were plot induced... Many many times Kakashi was made to look bad just because he wasn't the main charachter (i'm thinking the Kakuzu fight), and probably his potential wasn't never fully explored before... With his repertoire, his intelligence, he should be abble to win most of his fights (i wouldn't say easilly) but at least he would pull it off... And as for the "kage level fight" where we had a bunch of B class techniques beeing pulled, when now most of the techniques are either S, Kekkei Genkai, or - (meaning that those techniques can only be used by that specific person) makes me laugh!! Good thing both Mdara and Tobi used some Katon, brings back the good old days where most of the techniques where elementel!! Not lasers, Bijuudamas,and etc...

[vizardichigo]

That's what she said. (RIMSHOT) Seriously though, I think we all would very much like to see Tsunade getting wood.

As far as Obito's change is concerned... Pretty much as anticipated. This was all set up in chapter 602 where Madara said this reality is "hell itself"...

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c602/15.html

At first Obito is like, "OK - sure - this reality is hell... Whatever.. B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b - cuckoo! Where's the door?" Now we see him fully accepting what Madara said. And yeah, the graphic violence and blood dripping everywhere and the death of his would-be girlfriend, apparently at the hand of what would be his supposed best-friend while he's half-mangled while wearing a plant-man suit... "OK - yeah I guess this IS hell..." It just makes Obito's initial fear on seeing Madara's sickle that he was going to take him to hell both funny and foreshadowing at the same time. As far as Obito is concerned, hell couldn't be any worse than what actual reality has dished out to him. So he will buy in to Madara's plan to change reality from hell into heaven with his Moon Eye plan. Sure - why not? Heck - maybe he is even so far gone that he thinks he actually DID die and is in hell and that this is his way out. Either way, it makes him committed to the plan at any cost to the point where he sees himself as a good guy and everyone else as a bad guy trying to stop him.

I would disagree...He is a shinobi...Loss comes with the territory...He wants to put the world in a dream like trance forever because of one traumatic experience??? Aren't they trained to accept death as part of their duty as a shinobi?....To me no explanation given by Kishi would justify Obito's descent to the darkside...Way too unbelievable IMO...But to each their own..

[Rarhyx]

don't know if this have been already discussed but:
did their sharingan evolve from 2 tomoe direct to ms with skipping 3 tomoe?

[juUnior]

And about the powerlevels in Naruto??? They have changed soooooooooooooooooooooooo much... Take Kakashi's example, the first we saw him using Sharingan, for like 10/20 min, he was knocked out and couldn't stand alone on his feet, he then sugested he had only chakra to use 3 Raikiri's in a day, and now he can use more than 3 Kamuys and kee fighting!

Well, da_ni, power-levels in fighting shounens like Naruto will definitely change, depending on a particular character <Kakashi just got stronger from the very first time we saw him, thats all - in fighting shounens its natural methinks > The newest example would be Mist shinobi vs Kakashi/Rin - we probably don't know HOW much Kakashi fought with them BUT we do know that the moment Obito awakened MS <along with Kakashi>, then at the same time Kakashi collapsed JUST from MS being awakened <probably drained him so much> It just means how stronger he got later on.

[Duniak]

don't know if this have been already discussed but:
did their sharingan evolve from 2 tomoe direct to ms with skipping 3 tomoe?

I think it was shown how 2-tomoe goes to 3-tomoe and instantly to MS.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/605/4

[Rarhyx]

I think it was shown how 2-tomoe goes to 3-tomoe and instantly to MS.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/605/4

I used the wrong words, sry bout that.
I mean if you go from 2 tomoe (or even 1 tomoe, (trauma, etc.)) direct to ms, do you unlock the "lower" sharingan levels(which you hand't before) at once?

[gnut]

I would disagree...He is a shinobi...Loss comes with the territory...He wants to put the world in a dream like trance forever because of one traumatic experience??? Aren't they trained to accept death as part of their duty as a shinobi?....To me no explanation given by Kishi would justify Obito's descent to the darkside...Way too unbelievable IMO...But to each their own..

yeah...they are shinobi...but they are humans first...which both have their flaws.not everyone can be/is a good person and the same goes for shinobi(mentally or physically)...and we are talking about a 14yr old boy(i was pretty incourageable at 14...probably a lot of young men older than 14).

taking into account what he has just seen and what he has just done...is enough to drive a hardcore soldier(in real life)crazy.
next,we will see how an old seasoned war mongor like madara takes advantange of this...if you look at it this way it is not hard to believe.

here's a good example for you...two brothers(preteens...idk...between 12/14)were manipulated by this older pedophile/sicko to murder their father.not only did they do it...they went and stayed with the guy by their own accord.even as much as pretending to be his kids and hiding from police.

so being young and traumatized is an easy road to wrong decision making(basically)...

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

I used the wrong words, sry bout that.
I mean if you go from 2 tomoe (or even 1 tomoe, (trauma, etc.)) direct to ms, do you unlock the "lower" sharingan levels(which you hand't before) at once?

has yet to be seen...but if you go straight to MS...i would imagine the tomoes would have to awaken also

now that i think about it...i bet kakashi awakes to having a three tomoe sharingan...

[matsemann08]

I used the wrong words, sry bout that.
I mean if you go from 2 tomoe (or even 1 tomoe, (trauma, etc.)) direct to ms, do you unlock the "lower" sharingan levels(which you hand't before) at once?

Uhm, yeah, that was what Duniak linked to.
Obito/Kakashi had 1 tomoe in the first frame, second frame 3 tomoes, third frame MS.
You can't unlock MS without 3 tomoes, but you can unlock 3 tomoes and MS right after one another.

[Afro_Sannin]

Is it just me or is something strange here....

Obito awakens his MS and all of a sudden is a genius at using it?

Wasnt it explained that he partially teleports parts of his body with his kamui to the other dimention... Hmmmmm wouldnt that level of difficulty take at least more than a few seconds to master lol.... kakashi ( a true genius ) activated his MS and took 3 years training with it and the best he could manage is transporting object or portions of object to that dimention. How in the heck would Obito rite away figure out hey let me transport myself, or parts of myself to that dimension. PLOT HOLES keep growing. And I love this manga. just seems like things are being pulled out of peoples arses..

[EMS]

I hope we get to see soon about sasuke and orochimaru while sasuke meet the man that knows everything even if sasuke takes the wrong path, sasue will still won't agree with tobi and madara's plan and sasuke might be piss off that tobi lied t him all this time..
I see
Madara: I'm the real uchiha madara.
Sasuke: i don't give a shit.

[danzouismadara]

uchihas are over-sensitive! enough said. Kakashi will kill obito. Obito was taken in by hatred instead of trying to end it. Kakashi will beat some common sense into obito.

[EMS]

uchihas are over-sensitive! enough said. Kakashi will kill obito. Obito was taken in by hatred instead of trying to end it. Kakashi will beat some common sense into obito.

I don't see how in hell kakashi will beat obito up and let's not talk about killing him, kakashi isn't close to obito level, obito is in another league..
Kakashi might use naruto talk not jutsu but about beating him, i don't see it happening at this moment, kakashi is already out of chakra.
You can say kakashi beating obito and killing him in the kakasi gaiden but after that obito got more powerful after awaking his sharingan/ms+ hashirama's cell=out of kakashi's league.

[KiSwordsman]

I used the wrong words, sry bout that.
I mean if you go from 2 tomoe (or even 1 tomoe, (trauma, etc.)) direct to ms, do you unlock the "lower" sharingan levels(which you hand't before) at once?

In this chapter that's exactly what we see. And as far as we know, Obito is the only one to skip like that. he went from 0 to 2 and two to Mangekyo. The guy had 3 tomoe for all of three seconds, if that. The chapter made it seem as if the third only unlocked to unlock the Mangekyo.

[Uchiha_Blood]

I just thought about it when answering to a thread, about how Kakashi is the only one who has a vastly superior rival
See the others rivals, all of them are arguably close in strenght ( Hashirama and Madara were almost equals, Hiruzen and Danzou as well, Jiriaya and Orochimaru too, Naruto and Sasuke will by the end of the manga ) but Obito completely dwarfs Kakashi.

Poor Kakashi