Bleach 511 Discussion

[NinjaStar]

Pass it off as fan romance, but I would have preferred a cornerstone character to die with dignity....doing his best against a fake doesn't count, a single slash bifurcation adds on to the appalling picture, cadaver wrist amputation and stepping on his corpses head, well i just threw up a little. A decent fight against a decent opponent would have achieved more...for me anyway.....and of emotional attachments in various characters, that is a matter of opinion...Ichigo is the main character, but i dislike him...personally that power of friendship crap he is always pulling together with his immaturity don't draw me to his character...I loved Yama though so I feel a little cheated.....About Kubo not playing around, I wish he would have chosen Komamura, Sado, Iba, Ikkaku, etc to not play around with...so please allow me to cry over the death of one my favorite fictional characters

Im not saying that you can't mourn for him but for him to die with dignity is not something required. People die, this is a war, not some sort of honorable sword duel that ends with the loser getting a giant ceremony. Bach is an evil guy and maybe rightfully so. From what i gathered yama massacred the quincies 1000 years ago. If all my people were killed i'd be a little pissed too. I wouldn't show mercy to the person that did it.

Yama was the one to die because he had nothing left to offer. I know that Neither do some of those characters that you mentioned but Yama was old. He wasn't going to experience anything new in his life. Anything that we could learn about him will be shown in flashbacks. Also he needed to die because if he was still alive everybody would be like "well its not like we actually need to worry. Yama will come and PWN anybody that fucks with SS!!11!". This way it feels like the war is really hopeless. Kubo did a bold thing and im hoping it pays off.

[Kyodai Senkan Mora]

I probably won't come back here again! Yama foreseeing his own death if he used Zanka no tachi once more.

Wow! I did not notice this..Makes the panels much more emotional and relevant...good eye.

A real question that needs to be asked is, why are the stolen Banka's still working with their users dead. Does the medallion somehow trap the Zanpaktou spirit inside and subdue it? I remember Hitsugaya trying but failing at his attempt to talk to Hyorinmaru.....What is the implication of this given that Zanpaktous are part of their owner's spirits?

[benelori]

People don't die with dignity in wars, they die like dogs. Pawns, soldiers, sergeants, generals, all of them. Over 3000 shinigami have been brutally killed by bisection, beheading, impalement, shot, slashed, poisoned, suicide, burnt or crushed. Kira died by a direct shot, Byakuya died pummeled mercilessly multiple times, Renji and Rukia were left on their last breaths, Hisagi was thrown like a ragdoll, Shunsui lost an eye, Kenpachi was strangled. It's all going to hell, and it ain't pretty. In direct comparison to Whitebeard as the patriarch figure, Yamamoto died in a war, Whitebeard died surrounded by his family in a hospital bed.

But this is a manga, where the author has the freedom to choose the manner of death of his characters...we are talking about the strongest shinigami in SS, who suddenly couldn't use any shunpo for example...dignity doesn't just mean the manner of their death, but the struggle before it...

[TheWanderer]

I didn't bother to take notice of it in the first look through but, you have to admire Yamamoto's will, even with his body sliced in half and hand sliced off, inches away from death his blade was still whole til the end. If anything I think the reason why Bach did overpower Yamamoto the way he did was because of Yamamoto's foolish code of honor, by not letting his arm be healed by Orihime he did lower his overall strength, had it not been for then that perhaps he would have been able to parry the attack better but to parry an attack from the left side and lacking an arm is a tad harder. Bach Basically attacked Yamamoto on his exposed side and he had no real way of defending himself from the strike.

It is quite the brutal death though, just like his own subordinates Bach leaves no trace of him. That's quite a viscous way to eliminate a target. I'm hoping the one that breaks through next chapter isn't ichigo, Bach's surprised/worried expression doesn't make much sense in the matter if it was Ichigo he wouldn't act so surprised but his surprised expression seems to be for another reason. I would think that perhaps the Royal Guards have readied themselves quicker than bach anticipated so now he'll have to deal with that before retreating. Either that or the explosion may have come from the one that was pointing the blade at Urahara. Let's say the one that pointed the blade at Urahara was a royal guard, they may have just decided to take him in for his "crimes" along with the fact he pretty much put two humans in danger when last seen Chad had holes in him and it's hard to tell if the same happened to Orihime.

Most likely the reason why we haven't gotten the reveal yet is because it should be mentioned next chapter, there may be a few panels that show what happened to Urahara and then perhaps the chapter will end with a reveal of what shocked Bach so much. Definitely gonna be a pain waiting for this chapter though, left it with quite the interesting cliffhanger, and Yamamoto being eliminated in the way he was does definitely make for some interesting character develop hopefully as we get to see how everyone copes with it and perhaps the royal guards intervening to perhaps temporarily take the position for the Squad 1 leader.

[Torran]

But this is a manga, where the author has the freedom to choose the manner of death of his characters...we are talking about the strongest shinigami in SS, who suddenly couldn't use any shunpo for example...

Physically, he was exhausted. Unlike Ichigo who seemingly has infinite reiatsu and can hold his bankai active literally for months, Yamamoto spent his reiatsu against Royd, It took a lot of reiatsu to reach 15,000,000 degrees and it took that same amount to keep himself from burning from his own power. It was his old, beaten, tired body against an enemy with roughly the same power but without the massive exhaustion. Mentally, he'd given up. Once his bankai was stolen, he surrendered consciously and unconsciously, because he knew everything was over. It wouldn't have mattered if he used shunpo or kido because there would be no point in even trying. The moment Bach pulled out his medallion is the moment Soul Society lost.

[NinjaStar]

He didn't dodge for several reasons:

1) The dramatic effect. Like you said earlier Mangas don't always apply real world logic and common sense If they did a lot of stuff wouldn't be a epic and kubo wouldn't have a chance to show off his sexy drawing skills that take up an entire page.

2) He was surprised. He had just got his bankai stolen and he was still processing the fact that he hadn't killed the real bach.

3) Yama doesn't really like dodging lol. When have we ever seen Yama dodge something? About to get stabbed in the cut but the main villain so what should i do? Tank it! About to get pummeled by some hollow with 100 arms so what should i do? Tank it! He doesn't really dodge people too often.

4) Bach is powerful. Maybe you are just underestimating Bach too much. Maybe Yama just wasn't fast enough to react. Bach is obviously powerful and now that he has Yama's bankai he might be the most powerful person in the manga to date.

[Kyodai Senkan Mora]

People don't die with dignity in wars.

Agreed. And if I wanted to read something about that I would pick up a newspaper, read a biography, maybe watch a documentary. I have always loved manga and anime that did not strive to anchor themselves to such realities...Kubo created the world of bleach, I would hope he would own it as his own and not be tied down by the need to conform to such reality....anyway this is neither here nor there and I do not wish to Ignite it into an unnecessary flame...so i will humbly ask you to indulge my need to be disappointed by this.

[jaymizzo]

I hate stupid cliffhangers... And tbh im not pissed at all for Yama dying, Logic has been dead in Bleach for a long time.

I wonder if that is Ichigo or Urahara and co. Or maybe the Zero division.

[Kay3795]

But this is a manga, where the author has the freedom to choose the manner of death of his characters...we are talking about the strongest shinigami in SS, who suddenly couldn't use any shunpo for example...dignity doesn't just mean the manner of their death, but the struggle before it...

It's not like he was the fastest with Shunpo anyway. Plus(according to Uyru), hirenkyaku is superior.
I think(like Bach said) Yamamoto was just outclassed.
Why is it so hard to imagine someone who is almost as old as Yamamoto kicking Yamamoto's butt(even if it was easily).
Bach never stopped getting stronger, he never stopped being ruthless, he continued to get stronger by whatever means while Yamamoto stopped all that 1000 years ago.

[Silhouette]

The way Yama-jii died is very sad but if Juha showed any respect to him then that would be a big contradiction in his character. Juha doesn't give two shits about his most loyal soldiers because he believes that anything other than instilling complete fear and execution of brutal annihilation is being weak. His philosophy is despicable but you have to expect that when it comes to him especially when he was killing an opponent . White Beard would have had a similar fate when he met his death as Yama-jii had it not been for Shanks stopping Akainu.

So was Yama-jii's death sad? Yes it was but to call it without dignity is absurd because he stood his grounds even when he knew it meant death. The way Juha kills his opponents and even followers is what's without dignity.

Kubo-sensei, I don't know what to expect anymore. Thank you

[NinjaStar]

Agreed. And if I wanted to read something about that I would pick up a newspaper, read a biography, maybe watch a documentary. I have always loved manga and anime that did not strive to anchor themselves to such realities...Kubo created the world of bleach, I would hope he would own it as his own and not be tied down by the need to conform to such reality....anyway this is neither here nor there and I do not wish to Ignite it into an unnecessary flame...so i will humbly ask you to indulge my need to be disappointed by this.

Thats exactly what he is doing. How often do you see a shounen kill off so many people in such a short time with such brutality? He doesn't have to follow Naruto's lead and not kill off a single significant character. He can do whatever he wants considering its his manga. He is owning it. Even if killing Yama was predictable nobody would have predicted he would be killed like this. Love it or hate it at least you have strongly about it. At least you weren't bored with it like Naruto's supposed 4th great war...

[benelori]

Physically, he was exhausted. Unlike Ichigo who seemingly has infinite reiatsu and can hold his bankai active literally for months, Yamamoto spent his reiatsu against Royd, It took a lot of reiatsu to reach 15,000,000 degrees and it took that same amount to keep himself from burning from his own power. It was his old, beaten, tired body against an enemy with roughly the same power but without the massive exhaustion. Mentally, he'd given up. Once his bankai was stolen, he surrendered consciously and unconsciously, because he knew everything was over. It wouldn't have mattered if he used shunpo or kido because there would be no point in even trying. The moment Bach pulled out his medallion is the moment Soul Society lost.

I disagree with the point where there was no point in trying...even after that the instinct was to stop the evil...so if Kubo is bothering to show us the instinct of a dead person, then why not show it to us while he is alive as well...

And that's all I wanted, and I've said it before...from the reader's perspective there was really no point in trying, but by trying he would've added a bit more positive vibe to this incident...all I wanted is just see him try, that's all

[dopeycheese]

the way I see it, its not like kubo wanted yamaji to die like this, feels more like he wants to rush to story to a certain point, shows how eager he is to introduce zero division.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

The thing I actually really disliked was Yama's humilation like stepping on his head, but more importantly, when we saw Mohawk guy only burnt a bit... it was really the moment I felt sorry for Yama as at this point it looks like all he did during the Arc was in vain if in the end we'll see all the guys he was supposed to burn to ashes will be ok at the end...

[benelori]

He didn't dodge for several reasons:

1) The dramatic effect. Like you said earlier Mangas don't always apply real world logic and common sense If they did a lot of stuff wouldn't be a epic and kubo wouldn't have a chance to show off his sexy drawing skills that take up an entire page.

2) He was surprised. He had just got his bankai stolen and he was still processing the fact that he hadn't killed the real bach.

These two belong together...surprised that he lost his bankai...he is shown to have been deceived, and then he takes out his bankai anyway...that was the moment where he should've tried to use all the other things shinigami have in their arsenal...together with his shikai...at least try to take some subordinates with him...

3) Yama doesn't really like dodging lol. When have we ever seen Yama dodge something? About to get stabbed in the cut but the main villain so what should i do? Tank it! About to get pummeled by some hollow with 100 arms so what should i do? Tank it! He doesn't really dodge people too often.

Haha, that I can't really argue with...at least in this there's consistency in his character...but in all previous situations, Yama was way more powerful and able to tank those hits...Bach escaped his grasp once, so we know, and he knew too, that Back is insanely more powerful than any of the adversaries that have come before...so the situation changed...I like versatility in a character, just like how Byakuya used hand to hand combat the last arc, Yama could've used shunpo...it is a basic ability after all...

4) Bach is powerful. Maybe you are just underestimating Bach too much. Maybe Yama just wasn't fast enough to react. Bach is obviously powerful and now that he has Yama's bankai he might be the most powerful person in the manga to date.

The thing is that the entire sequence of Bach vs Yama was drawn out and made to appear as not that fast...Bach has all the time in the world to set up his own technique, and then he uses one slash to cut Yama in two....I think the matter is that I was overestimating Yama...I don't know Bach's limits, so I can't be underestimating him, just yet...