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Thread: Bleach 511 Discussion

  1. #226
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    The sword hilt actually looks completely different. It is plausible that was a previous kenpachi though.

    As far as the final explosion I don't see how it could possibly be anyone but ichigo. In context, it makes perfect sense ichigo would literally explode his way into SS to begin with. We saw him on the verge of a new transformation while he was trapped in a cage and the exit was blocked by kirge. In this regard the most likely scenario is that ichigo got his new form, blasted out of the cage and then he proceeded to rip appart the locks which kirge placed on the exit. Conversely it could also be the person who killed kirge but I find that a tad more unlikely.

    We also have to make the consideration that the reaction juhabach had to the explosion made no sense at all. Why would a seasoned warrior react to a far away explosion like that when in the middle of a battlefield? even if he ordered a retreat that does not necessarily mean fights would end by default at all. Why would the captains stop fighting? My crackpot theory is that more than the explosion he reacted to the reaitsu which caused it. As a quincy he should have finely tuned senses so if ichigo as a war potential got a stronger hollowification (thanks to his acquired fullbring powers) it would make sense juha would react this way. Perhaps the new reason for the retreat will end up being ichigo's powers more than anything else.
    When did Ichigo show that he started transforming? Not that im doubting you but i literally saw no signs of it, so maybe i missed something.

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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaStar View Post
    When did Ichigo show that he started transforming? Not that im doubting you but i literally saw no signs of it, so maybe i missed something.
    His mask pattern started showing up on his face last we saw him. Too lazy to look it up though.

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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    His mask pattern started showing up on his face last we saw him. Too lazy to look it up though.
    That was Bringer Light, not mask pattern or anything like that


    And if you're talking about that pattern in his face, that's just blood/bruises

  4. #229
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    how smart of juha bach! he knew about 0th squad's coming,and he planned to retreat and hide for a moment. yet,the explosion and ichigo will keep him busy!

  5. #230
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    I don't think it was Bringer Light,I think it was just pure reiatsu,that appeared near his face(in fact to the back of his face)thus signaling that reiatsu is being gathered around his face,hence his mask or new power will show off(I guess this was what kkck was reffering to as the new transformation).Though,I highly doubt Ichigo will use anymore a mask.What I would love though would be to see Ichigo with new abilities,GT is over(and by over I mean OVER)-used,he really need to enlarge his repertoire of attacks...



    On a side-note,I realized how Kubo can pull of the biggest troll of any manga thus far,the god-like troll : Unohana's Bankai can resurrect dead people.Happy ending for everyone.-.-

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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by g0dzax View Post
    I don't think it was Bringer Light,I think it was just pure reiatsu,that appeared near his face(in fact to the back of his face)thus signaling that reiatsu is being gathered around his face,hence his mask or new power will show off(I guess this was what kkck was reffering to as the new transformation).Though,I highly doubt Ichigo will use anymore a mask.What I would love though would be to see Ichigo with new abilities,GT is over(and by over I mean OVER)-used,he really need to enlarge his repertoire of attacks...



    On a side-note,I realized how Kubo can pull of the biggest troll of any manga thus far,the god-like troll : Unohana's Bankai can resurrect dead people.Happy ending for everyone.-.-
    Bringer light as shown by Ichigo and Tsukishima
    And bringer light shown by Ichigo when imprisoned

    The same effect... It is bringer light, and also, his reiatsu in Bankai becomes Black

  7. #232
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by SaitoSpike View Post
    i completely agree with everything you said, i feel like it was rushed, but i dont wanna get into that because i might jus be called a bitter Yama fan, i have to admit its very surprising to me that it was done in one chapter based on what we've seen from Yama, this seems to indicate that even his spirit was completely defeated, but since we didnt hear a peep from him it kinda leaves a questionamark....in the sense that are we to just understand that Yama-ji is exactly as Juha described? is that the history of Yama and the founding of the 13 divisions that Kubo is gonna go with? so essentially are we to understand that Yama was simply a dictator?

    its very surprising to me for Kubo to leave it as a one sided story when even the lowest bad guys have for the most part had a chance to tell their story before death...including like all of the espada....

    perhaps it is a story that will be told by say Unohana or i dunno....who's left who would know that story? Chojiro's dead too lol.....but yeah it was odd for sure....as i've always said tho and as most agreed his death was necessary....but i agree it seemed rather anti-climactic....and like Kubo is on some sort of deadline to end that fight....

    all in all tho this chapter was excellent, loved the cold bloodedness of Juha flawlessly drawn
    This hole Arc has been rushed... If we think carefully, we can find plenty of things that need answering that makes us wonder where the story is heading...
    If the SR are this powerful, why wait so long to attack SS? We learned that the Captains are immensely strong, yet they've been humiliated beyond any doubt so far... Captains we learned/were lead to believe were very powerful had unworthy defeats (Yamaji, Kempachi, Byakuya)... Again, if they were so strong why wait so long to engage SS? What did they fear? Why didn’t they attacked right after The Aizen incident? Why wait Ichigo regain his powers just to take the opportunity he’s in Hueco Mundo to attack SS? Why not attack SS before he regained his powers? They had more than a year to do that…

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
    Nodt defeated Byakuya thanks to his medallion, which he couldn't use against Yama. Also, Yama is WORLDS APART from Byakuya. You might as well argue that Ayon could defeat Yama because he defeated Hisagi.

    And I believe that the one who defeated Kenpachi was Yhwach himself, who AFTER THAT switched places with Royd (who then grabbed Kenpachi by the neck). Contrived, yes, but hardly a plot hole again.

    I believe the main problem with Bleach fandom is that they call "plot hole" and "bad writing" things that they just don't like. Again: I too feel that the whole "twin decoy" play was a little off-putting and anticlimatic, but it makes sense in the setting. Please stop trying to find logical faults and just say that you feel disappointed and believe Kubo should have came up with something better.
    When did I mentioned Plot holes? And yes, if I can’t understand something, that makes no sense at all, I am entitled to say it’s bad writing from my point of view… Or do you think that by the simple fact that Kubo thinks it’s time to slaughter almost all the shinigami we have to follow his reasoning? Captains were somebody whose sheer reiatsu would be enough to defeat the least capable of the opponents… Plenty of times we saw Yamaji, Kempachi, Byakuya, Toshirou, Shunsui, do that… Blondy even acknowledged Kempachis reiatus when he appeared, and what did it served him? Nothing… He was pawned like a dog…
    And the others here got reduced to their Bankai’s powers alone… no kidou, no speed, no nothing… And people are saying that Yamaji was much stronger than the remaining Captains… Who’s to replace him if retires? Is there no one strong enough to replace him? Is there such a huge gap in power? That can’t be quite true, and if it was true, how come there are several people within the enemies that can fight against him? Deadly enemies, eternal rivals wait 1000 years to dispatch of the Shinigami? The whole point of my argument is “if they were so strong why the hell wait so much time to engage SS?”
    I could understand if there was a strategy, a tight match, and in the end the captains would lose… But like this? This easily? Byakuya, said to be the strongest ever of his family, the most noble of all the noble families, is only worth this? What happened to all his speed? His bankai should only help his offensive power, not his overall abilities, he, being a captain, alone with his Shikai and Reiatsu should be more than enough to at least held his own against that kind of enemy… Then there’s Yamaji… This title made me laugh… Die Standing???? WHO??? Yamamoto? He was TERRIBLY HUMILIATED… We can’t even say he lost because he was tricked to fight another guy before because that just happened to show us Yamamoto’s powers… The way it happened, he would’ve lost either way… Had been Juha Bach from the start and he would still have his bankai stolen and cuted in half…
    And the final insult of all… The so called strongest Shinigami wasn’t even included in the war potentials!! Kempachi was, but he wasn’t? I surely hope that it was the real Juha Bach that defeated Kempachi, because if it wasn’t…
    We know 3 of the 5 war potentials, Ichigo, Kempachi, and Aizen… When where they rated as War potentials? Was it after Aizen rebelled? Was it before? Does this means Juha Bach knew all along that Aizen was evil? And who are the remaining 2? Are they part of the G13? The pace of the story is moving fast, but at the same time there isn’t much being showed… The story itself is progressing very rapidly, but at the same time it’s like it’s being wasted precious pages with futile things… Each chapter seems short as hell… Kubo’s greatest fault is that he’s paying much more attention to the drawings and not to the story, and this could make Bleach loose most of their fans…

    ---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SaitoSpike View Post
    i completely agree with everything you said, i feel like it was rushed, but i dont wanna get into that because i might jus be called a bitter Yama fan, i have to admit its very surprising to me that it was done in one chapter based on what we've seen from Yama, this seems to indicate that even his spirit was completely defeated, but since we didnt hear a peep from him it kinda leaves a questionamark....in the sense that are we to just understand that Yama-ji is exactly as Juha described? is that the history of Yama and the founding of the 13 divisions that Kubo is gonna go with? so essentially are we to understand that Yama was simply a dictator?

    its very surprising to me for Kubo to leave it as a one sided story when even the lowest bad guys have for the most part had a chance to tell their story before death...including like all of the espada....

    perhaps it is a story that will be told by say Unohana or i dunno....who's left who would know that story? Chojiro's dead too lol.....but yeah it was odd for sure....as i've always said tho and as most agreed his death was necessary....but i agree it seemed rather anti-climactic....and like Kubo is on some sort of deadline to end that fight....

    all in all tho this chapter was excellent, loved the cold bloodedness of Juha flawlessly drawn
    This hole Arc has been rushed... If we think carefully, we can find plenty of things that need answering that makes us wonder where the story is heading...
    If the SR are this powerful, why wait so long to attack SS? We learned that the Captains are immensely strong, yet they've been humiliated beyond any doubt so far... Captains we learned/were lead to believe were very powerful had unworthy defeats (Yamaji, Kempachi, Byakuya)... Again, if they were so strong why wait so long to engage SS? What did they fear? Why didn’t they attacked right after The Aizen incident? Why wait Ichigo regain his powers just to take the opportunity he’s in Hueco Mundo to attack SS? Why not attack SS before he regained his powers? They had more than a year to do that…

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
    Nodt defeated Byakuya thanks to his medallion, which he couldn't use against Yama. Also, Yama is WORLDS APART from Byakuya. You might as well argue that Ayon could defeat Yama because he defeated Hisagi.

    And I believe that the one who defeated Kenpachi was Yhwach himself, who AFTER THAT switched places with Royd (who then grabbed Kenpachi by the neck). Contrived, yes, but hardly a plot hole again.

    I believe the main problem with Bleach fandom is that they call "plot hole" and "bad writing" things that they just don't like. Again: I too feel that the whole "twin decoy" play was a little off-putting and anticlimatic, but it makes sense in the setting. Please stop trying to find logical faults and just say that you feel disappointed and believe Kubo should have came up with something better.
    When did I mentioned Plot holes? And yes, if I can’t understand something, that makes no sense at all, I am entitled to say it’s bad writing from my point of view… Or do you think that by the simple fact that Kubo thinks it’s time to slaughter almost all the shinigami we have to follow his reasoning? Captains were somebody whose sheer reiatsu would be enough to defeat the least capable of the opponents… Plenty of times we saw Yamaji, Kempachi, Byakuya, Toshirou, Shunsui, do that… Blondy even acknowledged Kempachis reiatus when he appeared, and what did it served him? Nothing… He was pawned like a dog…
    And the others here got reduced to their Bankai’s powers alone… no kidou, no speed, no nothing… And people are saying that Yamaji was much stronger than the remaining Captains… Who’s to replace him if retires? Is there no one strong enough to replace him? Is there such a huge gap in power? That can’t be quite true, and if it was true, how come there are several people within the enemies that can fight against him? Deadly enemies, eternal rivals wait 1000 years to dispatch of the Shinigami? The whole point of my argument is “if they were so strong why the hell wait so much time to engage SS?”
    I could understand if there was a strategy, a tight match, and in the end the captains would lose… But like this? This easily? Byakuya, said to be the strongest ever of his family, the most noble of all the noble families, is only worth this? What happened to all his speed? His bankai should only help his offensive power, not his overall abilities, he, being a captain, alone with his Shikai and Reiatsu should be more than enough to at least held his own against that kind of enemy… Then there’s Yamaji… This title made me laugh… Die Standing???? WHO??? Yamamoto? He was TERRIBLY HUMILIATED… We can’t even say he lost because he was tricked to fight another guy before because that just happened to show us Yamamoto’s powers… The way it happened, he would’ve lost either way… Had been Juha Bach from the start and he would still have his bankai stolen and cuted in half…
    And the final insult of all… The so called strongest Shinigami wasn’t even included in the war potentials!! Kempachi was, but he wasn’t? I surely hope that it was the real Juha Bach that defeated Kempachi, because if it wasn’t…
    We know 3 of the 5 war potentials, Ichigo, Kempachi, and Aizen… When where they rated as War potentials? Was it after Aizen rebelled? Was it before? Does this means Juha Bach knew all along that Aizen was evil? And who are the remaining 2? Are they part of the G13? The pace of the story is moving fast, but at the same time there isn’t much being showed… The story itself is progressing very rapidly, but at the same time it’s like it’s being wasted precious pages with futile things… Each chapter seems short as hell… Kubo’s greatest fault is that he’s paying much more attention to the drawings and not to the story, and this could make Bleach loose most of their fans…

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  9. #233
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    I didn't get to read all the pages of discussion, but it seems the consensus is that the explosion behind Bach was Ichigo?

    After reading this chapter though, I had a different idea which I wonder if anyone else has considered: I think that explosion was caused by Yamamoto himself in the form seen in that painting in his flashback. It may be the final form of Ryujin Jakka as a phoenix who rises from death from its own ashes. Of course if it appeared, it would mean that Yamamoto would soon afterwards lose his shinigami abilities like Ichigo did and not be able to return to soul society.

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  11. #234
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    I was referring to both, bringer light and the pattern which appeared on ichigo's face. At first I was skeptical of the pattern however it is far too clearly defined for it to be mere blood. Taking in consideration the pattern which perfectly matches his old mask and the fullbring light I would argue ichigo is indeed going through some sort of transformation right now. Perhaps he won't actually have a mask however taking in consideration the obvious relationship of what is going on to fullbring I think the transformation will revolve around the bits and pieces of armor ichigo got. I think the most likely scenario is that the bits and pieces of armor which ichigo has will grow larger and cover a greater portion of his body. Since this would indeed be a type of hollowification in some form then it would not be strange in the least that ichigo ends up resembling a hollow after it. I admit I would love to see a mask here. Interestingly, if my little idea turns out to be correct then ichigo would get yet another form while in shikai. I mean, if what if changing is his fullbring/hollow armor and that changed depending on shikai or bankai then the current transformation should result in ichigo having a slightly different shikai armor when used.

  12. #235
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member BrunoGF's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by da_ni View Post
    Kubo’s greatest fault is that he’s paying much more attention to the drawings and not to the story, and this could make Bleach loose most of their fans…
    Fault? These are the best drawings in bleach. Ever. Kubo can have a couple more years to settle and explain everything regarding the story. Speaking for me, I'm not in a rush to see things end soon.

  13. #236
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    I didn't get to read all the pages of discussion, but it seems the consensus is that the explosion behind Bach was Ichigo?

    After reading this chapter though, I had a different idea which I wonder if anyone else has considered: I think that explosion was caused by Yamamoto himself in the form seen in that painting in his flashback. It may be the final form of Ryujin Jakka as a phoenix who rises from death from its own ashes. Of course if it appeared, it would mean that Yamamoto would soon afterwards lose his shinigami abilities like Ichigo did and not be able to return to soul society.
    Well, the thing about the explosion is just how it looked:
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/511/18
    The explosion started from the right and advanced to the left. Does that make sense for a random explosion? If anything, the explosion makes perfect sense in what we should expect if ichigo literally burst out of a dimension in midair.

    I admit I am warming a bit to the idea of the explosion being whatever the picture in yama's quarters represented. The chapter obviously means to point towards that picture being yamamoto in his old bloodthirsty self destroying everything but if it really is something else it would be interesting that yamamoto's death let it loose. Not sure what that could be though...

    As for yamamoto pulling a phoenix like thing.... yamamoto's powers have never been related to such a mythical creature so far. From what I recall ryujin jakka means fire flowing like blade or something and zanka no tachi means something along the lines of longsword of the remaining flame. And in any scenario the entire point of the blade was dominion over flames, never a mention of any creature as a theme. Ryujin jakka released insane amount of flames, zanka no tachi concentrated them on the blade, made yamamoto's reiatsu appear like a flame, used flames to give energy to dead bodies and used a sort of long range attack with flames. The bankai never had a theme beyond flames applied to something.... Its not like hyorinmaru that has the whole dragon thing for instance.....

  14. #237
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member union98's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    I don't think that explosion has anything to do with the 0 squad or Ichigo, but rather, the picture we saw in the flashback. I'm assuming that with Yama's death, perhaps some kind of seal was broken. Maybe part of his power he had to seal away or something or some other entity that he had to seal away which his death automatically breaks the seal. He told Shunsui in the flashback that if that entity or whatever returns then it means he probably won't be coming back. That's probably what that explosion was. So perhaps JB will have to deal with whatever that is or maybe the 0 squad.

    AND WHY THE F*CK DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP USING MANGAREADER TO REFERENCE BLEACH CHAPTERS....IF NOT EVERYBODY CAN SEE IT, WHAT'S THE POINT? IT'S LIKE YOUR GRADE SCHOOL TEACHER ALWAYS SAID, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FOR THE WHOLE CLASS, LEAVE THAT $HIT AT HOME...MAN THIS HAS BEEN PISSING ME OFF FOR MONTHS NOW!!!

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    Last edited by union98; October 10, 2012 at 03:45 PM.
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    That was Bringer Light, not mask pattern or anything like that


    And if you're talking about that pattern in his face, that's just blood/bruises
    I am, and it's not bruises. Bruises from what, screaming? He didn't have the pattern in the previous panel, then you see black reiatsu/hollow reiatsu, then the pattern starts showing up. Bringer light and reiatsu gathering when putting on a hollow mask looks the same BTW, which makes sense considering how fullbringers get their power.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-669-20...apter-215.html

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Page 5 top right. Also, dunno if mohawk guy is busby.

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/494/15
    Look at his collar.
    Mohawk Guy doesn't have one.
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/494/16

    Plus, mohawk guy is kinda thick, while that other guy is very skinny:
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/506/7

    ---------- Post added at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------
    We didn't even get a full facial expression of Ukitake's reaction. I don't get why Kubo's ignored him so much, he's the only one who was shown to encounter a SR who hasn't had any part of his battle shown.

    That's definitely Buzzby. It's the same face with part of his mohawk gone, and why else would he look like he just got roasted and missing clothes? Or are you saying Mohawk guy is not the one that killed Kira and that that was Buzzby? Because it seems to be implied that they're one in the same from what NaNaNa said.

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    Re: Bleach 511 Discussion / 512 Predictions ~ Don't forget to participate in Community Awards 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    I am, and it's not bruises. Bruises from what, screaming? He didn't have the pattern in the previous panel, then you see black reiatsu/hollow reiatsu, then the pattern starts showing up. Bringer light and reiatsu gathering when putting on a hollow mask looks the same BTW, which makes sense considering how fullbringers get their power.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-669-20...apter-215.html
    Bruises were shown from his fight vs Quillge

    I can still show many panels with bruises and blood if you want to

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