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Thread: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

  1. #46
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    The ,manga has stated as fact that reiatsu could not destroy the train and the train basically transcended the world's ordinary physics. The manga pointed out shinigami, reiatsu, can't do a thing to it and yamamoto is a shinigami who uses reiatsu.
    And Aizen saying that he's got so much of that Reiatsu, that nobody was able to even feel it, turns it into non-reiatsu how exactly? Just as Hakuteiken above mentioned, it's likely the first time someone with high enough reiatsu tried to do it, as Shinigami have no reason attack it on their own. We already knew that Aizen was in his own perception of the world already at that point, he did even percieve Ichigo's as his own[the mountain slice].
    Firm but Fair

  2. #47
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    And Aizen saying that he's got so much of that Reiatsu, that nobody was able to even feel it, turns it into non-reiatsu how exactly? Just as Hakuteiken above mentioned, it's likely the first time someone with high enough reiatsu tried to do it, as Shinigami have no reason attack it on their own. We already knew that Aizen was in his own perception of the world already at that point, he did even percieve Ichigo's as his own[the mountain slice].
    I am not entirely sure of what you are talking about... non-reiatsu? Aizen had reiatsu, it was simply beyond what normal shinigami could hope to be able to perceive or comprehend. Aizen didn't just have a lot of reiatsu at that point, he was innnately superior to shinigami. I don't think that what we have seen suggests that the shinigami just assumed shinigami can't affect the train. Why would we assume that with the likes of urahara and mayuri being in and allied to the squads? If there was actually a way for shinigami to affect it then it wouldn't really make sense that up to this point the way to SS for non shinigami to be such a potential hazard.

  3. #48
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I am not entirely sure of what you are talking about... non-reiatsu? Aizen had reiatsu, it was simply beyond what normal shinigami could hope to be able to perceive or comprehend. Aizen didn't just have a lot of reiatsu at that point, he was innnately superior to shinigami. I don't think that what we have seen suggests that the shinigami just assumed shinigami can't affect the train. Why would we assume that with the likes of urahara and mayuri being in and allied to the squads?
    "The manga pointed out shinigami, reiatsu, can't do a thing to it and yamamoto is a shinigami who uses reiatsu."
    That's what you said in your previous post and I pointed out that it's still reiatsu, but insanely high-level reiatsu that destroyed the cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    If there was actually a way for shinigami to affect it then it wouldn't really make sense that up to this point the way to SS for non shinigami to be such a potential hazard.
    I'm not sure if I get this right.
    Are you asking why they didn't try to get rid of cleaner, so that they can freely move to SS?
    If that's what you are asking (again, I may be getting this totally wrong), the cleaner is there to make sure that nobody resides in that separated realm, over the dimension of time and space.

  4. #49
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    "The manga pointed out shinigami, reiatsu, can't do a thing to it and yamamoto is a shinigami who uses reiatsu."
    That's what you said in your previous post and I pointed out that it's still reiatsu, but insanely high-level reiatsu that destroyed the cleaner.



    I'm not sure if I get this right.
    Are you asking why they didn't try to get rid of cleaner, so that they can freely move to SS?
    If that's what you are asking (again, I may be getting this totally wrong), the cleaner is there to make sure that nobody resides in that separated realm, over the dimension of time and space.
    I was responding to what shabrack said about non reiatsu.... Anyways, it is still a manga fact that shinigami cannot affect the train with their powers, gin pointed out it was impossible to do so. Why disregard something which the manga has presented as fact?

    Its not about getting rid of the cleaner, its that it wouldn't make sense that if the thing could be affected by shinigami powers they would have no way to control it. Mayuri is not the sort to pass on that, urahara is not either. Yet what we see is that every time ichigo or someone else has to go to SS they have to run from that even after ichigo saved SS. There is no reason for the shinigami, specially urahara and mayuri, to not want to understand the kototsu. until the manga says otherwise then 10 yamamamoto's with bankai can't do a thing to it because yamamoto is still only a shinigami with normal reiatsu. Gin said it as a fact, the train is not a being of reiatsu, it is a being of reason and thus cannot be stopped with reiatsu.

  5. #50
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Did Aizen cancel the Homonka? I thought his reiatsu made it impossible for the attack to reach his body initially. It's more like countered, rather than cancelled.
    Yes he did cancel it, as the the Homonka disappeared from him (in the same moment he caught Soi Fong)

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  7. #51
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I was responding to what shabrack said about non reiatsu.... Anyways, it is still a manga fact that shinigami cannot affect the train with their powers, gin pointed out it was impossible to do so. Why disregard something which the manga has presented as fact?

    Its not about getting rid of the cleaner, its that it wouldn't make sense that if the thing could be affected by shinigami powers they would have no way to control it. Mayuri is not the sort to pass on that, urahara is not either. Yet what we see is that every time ichigo or someone else has to go to SS they have to run from that even after ichigo saved SS. There is no reason for the shinigami, specially urahara and mayuri, to not want to understand the kototsu. until the manga says otherwise then 10 yamamamoto's with bankai can't do a thing to it because yamamoto is still only a shinigami with normal reiatsu. Gin said it as a fact, the train is not a being of reiatsu, it is a being of reason and thus cannot be stopped with reiatsu.
    Just to support your point Isshin also said a shinigami cannot make a dent to it http://www.mangapanda.com/94-53161-1...apter-407.html

  8. #52
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I was responding to what shabrack said about non reiatsu.... Anyways, it is still a manga fact that shinigami cannot affect the train with their powers, gin pointed out it was impossible to do so. Why disregard something which the manga has presented as fact?

    Its not about getting rid of the cleaner, its that it wouldn't make sense that if the thing could be affected by shinigami powers they would have no way to control it. Mayuri is not the sort to pass on that, urahara is not either. Yet what we see is that every time ichigo or someone else has to go to SS they have to run from that even after ichigo saved SS. There is no reason for the shinigami, specially urahara and mayuri, to not want to understand the kototsu. until the manga says otherwise then 10 yamamamoto's with bankai can't do a thing to it because yamamoto is still only a shinigami with normal reiatsu. Gin said it as a fact, the train is not a being of reiatsu, it is a being of reason and thus cannot be stopped with reiatsu.
    To be honest, me getting into this debate entirely owes it to the fact that I never got a hold of what Gin's words meant. So, I'm assuming he said it cannot be stopped with reiatsu, because the reiatsu he referred to was bounded by the regular Shinigami levels, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Yes he did cancel it, as the the Homonka disappeared from him (in the same moment he caught Soi Fong)
    Ah, my bad. My memory let me down. Thanks for your correction (=

  9. #53
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    To be honest, me getting into this debate entirely owes it to the fact that I never got a hold of what Gin's words meant. So, I'm assuming he said it cannot be stopped with reiatsu, because the reiatsu he referred to was bounded by the regular Shinigami levels, right?



    Ah, my bad. My memory let me down. Thanks for your correction (=
    My impression was along the lines of that. Being technical what gin says makes no sense as he is comparing actual physical real world processes which can be measured and understood (reiatsu clashes in bleach are actual science) with logic(the kototsu being a thing of reason). In a extreme case a shinigami affecting the train is not just physically impossible but also actually plain illogical and incomprehensible, perhaps as absurd as suggesting the possibility of a squared circle.

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  11. #54
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Perhaps hybrid/transcendal beings have a different reiatsu from that of a Shinigami ? It's not like transcendal beings were being studied and everything is known about them

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Perhaps hybrid/transcendal beings have a different reiatsu from that of a Shinigami ? It's not like transcendal beings were being studied and everything is known about them
    You know how humans who cannot perceive spirits (because they have no reiatsu) are unable to interfere with a Shinigami?
    It's the same way a shinigami cannot interfere with Aizen. Aizen merely went beyond what is logical for a shinigami. http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57474-1...apter-420.html

    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-54486-2...apter-409.html Aizen purposely lowered his reiatsu at this point in time to the levels of a shinigami but the humans who are unable to perceive reiatsu can't do a thing.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-54924-1...apter-410.html Ichigo's friends are able to perceive spirits thus they sensed Aizen's reiatsu when he lowered it.

  13. #56
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    People can interfere with Shinigami...apparently it's easier to get physical than to see them

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-463-16...chapter-9.html

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    So, base Aizen vs Yama, Aizen has the advantage over everybody with his shikia only way to counter this is to grab/hold his sword handle and it won't affect you this is useless given its ability it's a complete genjitsu that he releases after his checkmate, it can be done but not the way Kubo writes as Aizen would just reveal that you were touching an illusion....2nd is to be struck by his sword and then hold on which is practically the same thing but his illusions obviously can't hurt you and that you can feel his reiatsu.......So Yamamoto can survive being impaled and counter attack like how his original plan was suppose to turn out....Or he goes banjos and uses Zankai East/West Whichever cladding him in flame and Aizen from there can only use Kidou to attack him.....So Yama yes he can beat Aizen with Low/Mid difficulty.

    Chrysaline Aizen is cocky an doesn't use his shikia ability....Yama Wins this by going Bankia....His Shikia IMO can't land a killing blow or simply would take to long.

    Ascended Aizen same thing gets owned by Bankia.....Mid difficulty he was pretty strong I guess =\

    Super Ascended monster form Yama goes all out facing an seemingly opponent that is just as strong as he is if not a little stronger but will just keep obliterating Aizen until he can seal him...High difficulty.....

    I don't even care who wins Lol xD...Kubo transforming Aizen like that was stupid only Ichigo's complete fusion was Kool and made sense but even he couldn't kill Aizen an still got hurt by him.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Yes he did cancel it, as the the Homonka disappeared from him (in the same moment he caught Soi Fong)
    That was an illusion the whole time the captains fought him. Ichigo saw the whole thing play out. He was probably switching his illusion with Momo when the final blow came from Hitsugaya. Shunsui knew they'd been tricked, but Hitsugaya was brash and rushed (fake) Aizen, that gave an opening for Aizen to cut them down. Seems that instance they were able to still communicate with one another, but Aizen wasn't there. Just a trick of him. It didn't matter with Rose Lisa and co. he still eluded them and KS IMO was the reason.

  16. #59
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    It's likely that Soifon hit air than actually coming in contact with Aizen...He was using KS the whole time

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    It's likely that Soifon hit air than actually coming in contact with Aizen...He was using KS the whole time
    There's no way to confirm that tho, that scene is difficult to understand

    And I may be trolling a bit here, but... Bankai Yama beating Godizen ? Yeah right...

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