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Thread: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

  1. #61
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    People can interfere with Shinigami...apparently it's easier to get physical than to see them

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-463-16...chapter-9.html
    Not only is chad no exactly normal, he didn't do damage either. Interfere in the since that they can inflict noticable damage.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Chrysalis aizen takes this. The guy's reiatsu is already on a whole new level. The guy disintgrated part of gin's arm without touching it as there aren't even finger marks on it And here comes the catch he appearantly still had his reiatsu lowered so that humans could feel it.

    And not to mention gin reiatsu actually affected ichigo slightly.

    Honestly and if you by chance don't believe chrysalis aizen wins imagine how powerfull monster aizen actually is, It's implied that seraph aizen is on a entire different level then his previous 2 transfromations, then monster aizen was actually able to damage ichigo which is something his seraph form couldn't do.

    Not to mention aizen has ks and immortality as well.

  3. #63
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Getsu View Post
    Chrysalis aizen takes this. The guy's reiatsu is already on a whole new level. The guy disintgrated part of gin's arm without touching it as there aren't even finger marks on it And here comes the catch he appearantly still had his reiatsu lowered so that humans could feel it.

    And not to mention gin reiatsu actually affected ichigo slightly.

    Honestly and if you by chance don't believe chrysalis aizen wins imagine how powerfull monster aizen actually is, It's implied that seraph aizen is on a entire different level then his previous 2 transfromations, then monster aizen was actually able to damage ichigo which is something his seraph form couldn't do.

    Not to mention aizen has ks and immortality as well.
    Well, you are indeed correct with most of these points, if not all of them, but the only mistake is about the first part. Chrysalis Aizen was the one that fought Urahara and Co. in FKT, not the one that Gin assassinated. It was a level below, so, Captain-Commander could still be able to feel his reiatsu back then, something Isshin was unable to do. Then again, Ichigo in FKT felt even that form's reiatsu before his training, so, there is a chance that Captain-Commander was possibly strong enough to feel even that form's reiatsu.

    Butterflaizen and beyond that were probably too much, anyway.

  4. #64
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Well, you are indeed correct with most of these points, if not all of them, but the only mistake is about the first part. Chrysalis Aizen was the one that fought Urahara and Co. in FKT, not the one that Gin assassinated. It was a level below, so, Captain-Commander could still be able to feel his reiatsu back then, something Isshin was unable to do. Then again, Ichigo in FKT felt even that form's reiatsu before his training, so, there is a chance that Captain-Commander was possibly strong enough to feel even that form's reiatsu.

    Butterflaizen and beyond that were probably too much, anyway.
    It's true that chrysalis aizen was a form below however that doesn't mean that mullet Aizen was actually figthing at a level above considering it's confirmed that he lowered his reiatsu during his time in KT. Chrysalis aizen couldn't be felt at all meaning he was exerting way more power. Also keep in mind that it's implied that ichigo was transcendent or had that potenial in it. I don't think it has everything to do with strength. Isshin was stronger then base aizen and caused him to slow down. FKT vizard ichigo couldn't do a thing safe for a sneak attack on aizen, uruhara is implied to have twice the reiatsu of a captain given he understands the hogyoku in the same fashion as aizen. yet ichigo out of all people felt his reiatsu.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Why would we think that the captain commander would be able to feel the power of cocoon aizen? I would argue that the moment in which ishin failed to be able to perceive his power was the moment any other shinigami would have been in the same situation. I don't think its an issue of quantity of reiatsu.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Why would we think that the captain commander would be able to feel the power of cocoon aizen? I would argue that the moment in which ishin failed to be able to perceive his power was the moment any other shinigami would have been in the same situation. I don't think its an issue of quantity of reiatsu.
    I agree for the most of it execpt the fact that quantity of reiatsu has nothing to do with it. Don't get me wrong here I do believe it's a factor here. Now what's interesting here is that aizen also said something along the lines of allowing them to ''interfere'' which might imply that even if he lowered his rei to the same level chances are they would still not be able to feel his reiatsu which may have something to do with the the fact that he transcended. I believe his reiatsu itself might have transcended as well. Given we see things like him destroying something shinigami can't even make a dent in it or the very fact that somebody below isshin could feel chrysalis aizen's reiatsu.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    As I think Aizen wins in any of his "advanced" forms. I will discuss the match of yama VS aizen without hogyoku:

    In terms of strength/speed/physical prowess: here there's more proof favouring aizen in this topic, than favouring yama. But I would asume they are similar since both has shown incredible things clearly out of the level of anybody else, like tearing apart an arrancar with a punch (yama), or cutting komamura's bankai in half with a single blow (aizen).

    In terms of reiatsu, they are similar too. Even if Yama is portrayed as having a huge unmatched reiatsu, I think the manga has shown Aizen has an insane amount of reiatsu too. Just remember how he lowered grimmjow to his knees or how powerful was his bakudo when he stopped Tessai's hado being just lieutenant.

    In terms of intelligence, however, and for obvious reasons, Aizen is unmatched by everyone except Urahara.

    In terms of zanpaktoh. Some of you have said Yama has the most powerful zanpaktoh which would make him unstopable on the battleground. Well, we all have seen how Aizen's cunning defeated Yama's allmighty zanpaktoh. But comparing just the two zanpaktohs, kyoka suigetsu appears to me as the most overpowered sword on Bleach. Remember all the problems that sword gave and not even the bankai was shown!

    So, based on what I have said, I think they would be a difficult match for both, and Aizen would probably win. Farewell, Yamamoto Genryusai.

  9. #68
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by metalia View Post
    As I think Aizen wins in any of his "advanced" forms. I will discuss the match of yama VS aizen without hogyoku:

    In terms of strength/speed/physical prowess: here there's more proof favouring aizen in this topic, than favouring yama. But I would asume they are similar since both has shown incredible things clearly out of the level of anybody else, like tearing apart an arrancar with a punch (yama), or cutting komamura's bankai in half with a single blow (aizen).

    In terms of reiatsu, they are similar too. Even if Yama is portrayed as having a huge unmatched reiatsu, I think the manga has shown Aizen has an insane amount of reiatsu too. Just remember how he lowered grimmjow to his knees or how powerful was his bakudo when he stopped Tessai's hado being just lieutenant.

    In terms of intelligence, however, and for obvious reasons, Aizen is unmatched by everyone except Urahara.

    In terms of zanpaktoh. Some of you have said Yama has the most powerful zanpaktoh which would make him unstopable on the battleground. Well, we all have seen how Aizen's cunning defeated Yama's allmighty zanpaktoh. But comparing just the two zanpaktohs, kyoka suigetsu appears to me as the most overpowered sword on Bleach. Remember all the problems that sword gave and not even the bankai was shown!

    So, based on what I have said, I think they would be a difficult match for both, and Aizen would probably win. Farewell, Yamamoto Genryusai.
    Base Aizen and Yama isn't even a discussion. Aizen literally said that he would have eventually been beaten by yama if they fought one on one. It doesn't get much clearer than that. Until the royal guard show more feats or Isshin shows us his FGT, Yama is the strongest Shinigami to exist.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Aizen, easily. He's so powerful that it took dumbed up Aizen to lose to Ichigo. He's the most powerful Bleach character ever.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaStar View Post
    Base Aizen and Yama isn't even a discussion. Aizen literally said that he would have eventually been beaten by yama if they fought one on one. It doesn't get much clearer than that. Until the royal guard show more feats or Isshin shows us his FGT, Yama is the strongest Shinigami to exist.
    No YOU literally said...... If you actually payed enough attention to what Aizen said in context, you would realise that what Aizen said & what you said are worlds apart.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    ^it depends on the translation actually. A couple do outright say RJ would outright overpower aizen however there are other translations from reliable sources which say that as a probability more than anything. As in aizen being overpowered would be a likely scenario in a straight confrontation. However '"ikely" is not quite the same as certain. It also makes sense with how kubo likes to keep stuff ambiguous. More so, aizen himself fights with tricks and his zampakuto is ideal to avoid direct combat so the situation is not quite as simple as being overpowered implying defeat. Even if aizen fights yamamoto's bankai his illusion will allow him to keep as much distance as he needs and we have no clue of what aizen's bankai does just yet.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    No YOU literally said...... If you actually payed enough attention to what Aizen said in context, you would realise that what Aizen said & what you said are worlds apart.
    Lol idk how much more i can pay attention. Are you saying Aizen would beat Yama in his base form?

  14. #73
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DraMas26's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    ^it depends on the translation actually. A couple do outright say RJ would outright overpower aizen however there are other translations from reliable sources which say that as a probability more than anything. As in aizen being overpowered would be a likely scenario in a straight confrontation. However '"ikely" is not quite the same as certain. It also makes sense with how kubo likes to keep stuff ambiguous. More so, aizen himself fights with tricks and his zampakuto is ideal to avoid direct combat so the situation is not quite as simple as being overpowered implying defeat. Even if aizen fights yamamoto's bankai his illusion will allow him to keep as much distance as he needs and we have no clue of what aizen's bankai does just yet.
    I think what Aizen meant was that in an ideal scenario Aizen vs. Yama would be an endless battle.

    It'll be:

    1. Yama uses RJ to attack.
    2. Aizen uses illusions to dodge.
    3. Aizen attacks Yama.
    4. Yama surrounds himself with RJ thus causing Aizen to defer the attack.

    So this would continue in one big circle until one of them makes a mistake. So I 'd say Yama vs Aizen in shikai would be based on luck more than anything else.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    No, Aizen would lose. Yama doesn't need to rely on his senses to fight Aizen. Aizen was caught by his pride. Yama understood that about Aizen. To Aizen, Yama was the prize, worthy of finishing with his own blade even after WW had self destructed. Aizen is a baby compared to Yama. Theres little he could do to escape him. Even without Ryujin Jakka Yama knows patience is whats needed. When Aizen made his move Yama had him. He used the sense of reitsu which he recognized from his sword to realize that the Aizen stabbing him wasn't an illusion. Aizen has to cut you down if it's one on one. His strategy in the manga could be done again.

  16. #75
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DraMas26's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni vs Aizen Sosuke

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    No, Aizen would lose. Yama doesn't need to rely on his senses to fight Aizen. Aizen was caught by his pride. Yama understood that about Aizen. To Aizen, Yama was the prize, worthy of finishing with his own blade even after WW had self destructed. Aizen is a baby compared to Yama. Theres little he could do to escape him. Even without Ryujin Jakka Yama knows patience is whats needed. When Aizen made his move Yama had him. He used the sense of reitsu which he recognized from his sword to realize that the Aizen stabbing him wasn't an illusion. Aizen has to cut you down if it's one on one. His strategy in the manga could be done again.
    No it's not.

    If it were that easy then why would Yama risk blowing up everyone? He had Aizen caught but still activated Enetsu Jigoku.

    Sure Yama had Aizen caught but that more due to PIS on Aizen's part for not trying to chop off Yama's head. Same thing happened with Shinji. When he fought Aizen he should have just went for his head rather than just wasting time cutting his shoulder. Yama could only tell if Aizen was real or not after he had been cut and not before so if Aizen just went for his head he probably would have won.

    So in the ideal scenario the battle would play out like this:

    1. Aizen creates an illusion and goes for Yama's head.
    2. Yama, seeing this possibility in advance, surrounds his head with flames so it can't be attacked. He then surrounds the rest of his body with flames as well.
    3. Yama attacks Aizen but finds out he hit an illusion.
    4. Aizen keeps creating illusions and avoids direct battle.

    Winner: Nobody

    KS and RJJ pretty much render each other obsolete.

    And Yama was caught in his pride as well. He himself destroyed WW without considering the consequences as Aizen himself said.

    ---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Battle takes place where Aizen had his final battle with ichigo. Aizen has all the powers and abilities he displayed during his fight with ichigo which are basically all the abilities he had in his transcendental form. Yamamoto has all the techniques which he has shown before including bankai.

    Edit:
    Well, on the subject of which transcendental form aizen has I was intentionally ambiguous on the matter. I can't really point to a link however I recall reading that the last databook said that aizen at some point started evolving however each evolution actually made him weaker. I think it said that the hollow like form was weaker than the butterfly form but I just can't confirm what exactly the facts are here. My idea with the thread was that people would have a place to discuss aizen at his strongest against the full might of yamamoto. The alternative would be to create a a thread for every form aizen had (cocoon, post cocoon, butterfly and hollowish) which seem impractical. So on the subject of which form of aizen to consider here just use whichever you believe to be the strongest one so far. I hope that makes sense to everyone.
    Wait so this is Hogyouku Aizen not base? Then the winner is clearly Aizen. Yama shouldn't be able to land a scratch on him unless Aizen gets cocky.

    As for the databook UNMASKED, here's the translated transcript:

    http://athakra.livejournal.com/1009.html

    Spoiler show


    So yeah basically the databook didn't say anything new and pretty much regurgitated everything said in the manga. It didn't say anything like Aizen's hogyouku evolutions made him weaker. No idea where you got that. His Hogyouku evolutions only made him stronger each time. But if there's one thing the databook made clear it's that Aizen knew what he was talking about and wasn't insane or out of his mind like some people said he was.
    Last edited by DraMas26; April 17, 2013 at 03:31 AM.

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