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View Poll Results: Who will win?

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  • Yukimura Seiichi

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  • Tooyama Kintarou

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Thread: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou



    Singles 1Yukimura SeiichiTooyama Kintarou
    TitleChild of GodSuper Rookie of the West
    SchoolRikkai Dai Fuzoku 3rd YearShitenhouji 1st Year
    Height175 cm151 cm
    Weight61 kg52 kg
    Dominant HandRightRight
    PlaystyleAll RounderAggressive Baseliner
    TechniquesYipsSuper Megaton Wonder Deluxe Yama Funka Serve
    Super Ultra Great Delicious Daishaarin Yama Arashi

    Serve order: Tooyama -> Yukimura


    This round ends on Saturday, October 6th 8 PM GMT.


    Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

  2. #2
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Yukimura wins this...

    Do I have to explain it? He almost killed Kintarou in the Nationals lol

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  4. #3
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Arcanix's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Yukimura. He absolutely crushed Tooyama at nationals, and he didn't even take his jacket off.

  5. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Mmmm poor Kintarou. Yukimura ends the match in no time, he effortlessly returns that Funka serve plus Yama Arashi. 5 ball not enough to beat Yuki, he crushed Tooyama in the nationals without taking his jacket off,he will do it again. Kintarou is a helpless dude here.

    Result: 6-0, no Yukimura wins the match in one point
    Last edited by LetalHawk; October 03, 2012 at 05:30 PM.

  6. #5
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Yukimura, from what we've seen, learned a new improve Yips.

    Kintarou, on the other hand, learn Super Megaton Wonder Deluxe Yama Funka Serve, 5 balls at once, and creating multiple clones. As far as we know, Yukimura is only confirm to be able to do 2 balls at once.

    I thin Yukimura will win, but the winning gap won't be as large as before. I think maybe 6-4 or something that line. I don't think this will be as one side as other people say it will be.

    The only way that Kintarou can win this is that he obtain PoP, which he DO have chance, according to pair puri. This match lays entirely on that. But that is just assumption, and I don't really like using assumption for these kind of match. Although it seemed that some people clearly assume that some people would improve. In those cases, I don't see Kintarou losing this.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  7. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Ken, are you serious on what you're saying? 6-4? The difference, that gap from nationals is still there, Kintarou improved but Yukimura also, and Nationals Yukimura would crush Kintarou, Kintarou won't take a single point from Yuki.

    POP, no. He gets yipped and just forfeits, It's impossible Yuki will drop a point now against Kintarou.Also, remember POP is banned here, so Yukimura wins this in one point
    Last edited by LetalHawk; October 03, 2012 at 05:36 PM.

  8. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Ken, are you serious on what you're saying? 6-4? The difference, that gap from nationals is still there, Kintarou improved but Yukimura also, and Nationals Yukimura would crush Kintarou, Kintarou won't take a single point from Yuki.

    POP, no. He gets yipped and just forfeits, It's impossible Yuki will drop a point now against Kintarou.
    In Shin, Kintarou improve a lot more than Yukimura. From the loser camp coach, # of balls hits tell a player ability. Kintarou=confirm 5 ball. Yukimura=confirm 2 ball. Yes, I'm serious.

    Imagine this (all make up number)

    PoT
    Yukimura- 1000
    Kintarou- 100

    SPoT
    Yukimura-1100 (Heck, seriously, we don't see that much improvement from him)
    Kintarou- 600

    It could even be something along these line. Kintarou earn a lot more upgrade than Yukimura. He have A LOT more chances to actually win some point now than before.

    On PoP, read pair puri, then talk to me again. It's certainly a possibility. Not just "no".
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  9. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    But as a rule in this tournament, POP is the only way for Kintarou to win, but it can't be used by any character, please Kintarou has no chance even if he can hit 5 balls abd a new serve, Yukimura sees through all of the moves, plus 5 balls isn't enough to beat him.

    Right now he has no chance, by the end of Shin, then I'll agree with you but right now the result is the same as Nationals finals.

  10. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    But as a rule in this tournament, POP is the only way for Kintarou to win, but it can't be used by any character, please Kintarou has no chance even if he can hit 5 balls abd a new serve, Yukimura sees through all of the moves, plus 5 balls isn't enough to beat him.

    Right now he has no chance, by the end of Shin, then I'll agree with you but right now the result is the same as Nationals finals.
    True. I forgot about that rule. Well, I think Yukimura will win in the first place, so that won't change my vote. But it does change the score that this match will be, though.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  11. #10
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    In Shin, Kintarou improve a lot more than Yukimura. From the loser camp coach, # of balls hits tell a player ability. Kintarou=confirm 5 ball. Yukimura=confirm 2 ball. Yes, I'm serious.

    Imagine this (all make up number)

    PoT
    Yukimura- 1000
    Kintarou- 100

    SPoT
    Yukimura-1100 (Heck, seriously, we don't see that much improvement from him)
    Kintarou- 600

    It could even be something along these line. Kintarou earn a lot more upgrade than Yukimura. He have A LOT more chances to actually win some point now than before.

    On PoP, read pair puri, then talk to me again. It's certainly a possibility. Not just "no".
    Yukimura might be over 9000 right now.

  12. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Yukimura has high base stats but you guys way overvalue them. Against #11 Yukimura is described as 'still MS level' in terms of basic rally. Sanada can rally with him basically perpetually before he got yips.

    The only reason Yukimura wins is because he has basically psychic attacks which at this point only has two known counters. Sanada had the Black Aura before he can hit five balls at a time, suggesting at least the basic Black Aura isn't harder to learn than hitting five balls at a time. It wouldn't surprise me if they just flat out say "Anyone who can hit 10 balls at once is immune to yips" at some point. Given nothing of this sorts has been said you'll have to give the game to Yukimura, but hitting five balls is harder than the basic Black Aura which definitely is able to get you out of yips. Yes Yukimura has an upgraded version of the same techinque but then Kintaro's been improving too.

  13. #12
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    People, TnK is not a "reasonable improvement" even if it were allowed...

    Kintarou has had some improvements, such as the addition of Yama Funka, being able to hit 5 at Once, and the clones, while Yuki gained Dream. Eventually, Yuki probably wins 7-5 or something, but if you give Kintarou some extra improvement, as our thing goes, I'll give it to Kintarou 7-5 because Yuki just has offensive problems and the clones give Kintarou a huge amount of flexibility.

  14. #13
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    People, TnK is not a "reasonable improvement" even if it were allowed...

    Kintarou has had some improvements, such as the addition of Yama Funka, being able to hit 5 at Once, and the clones, while Yuki gained Dream. Eventually, Yuki probably wins 7-5 or something, but if you give Kintarou some extra improvement, as our thing goes, I'll give it to Kintarou 7-5 because Yuki just has offensive problems and the clones give Kintarou a huge amount of flexibility.
    Kintaro had the clone thing back when he was playing against Ryoma. It's just a way of showing how he's extremely fast to the point even if you have illusion of multiple balls he can just chase down every one of the illusions with sheer speed.

    While there are only two known counters to Yukimura's 'psychic' type abilities, it's not like you'd expect someone like Tokugawa to just keel over against yips/dream. Yet Tokugawa hasn't done anything besides hitting 10 balls at once thus far. You've to assume someone who can hit 10 balls at a time must not be easily affected by yips or you might as well say Yukimura will never lose against any of the G10, even though Shuuji doesn't even seem particularly impressed by Tezuka who is way ahead of the rest of the middle schooler now.

    Now we know Kintaro can hit 5 balls at once but we don't know if he can do better than 5 (seems likely, but never shown), so his power level is uncertain at this point, but using Sanada's progression (broke out of yips momentarily with basic Black Aura before he can hit 5 balls at once), it is likely he'll be able to develop resistance to it because he can hit 5 balls at once. Given Kintaro is described as basically infinite endurance, if he breaks out of yips then you'd just have perpetual rallies (Kintaro had a 40 minute rally with Ryoma before) and it seems like Kintaro will eventually win due to his superior base endurance even if none of his special techniques work.

    I give the game to Yukimura due to the uncertainty of how to translate certain aspects to yips resistance but there's no way yips equates to auto-win in POT when you're dealing with 5-ball hitting guys.

  15. #14
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Kintaro had the clone thing back when he was playing against Ryoma. It's just a way of showing how he's extremely fast to the point even if you have illusion of multiple balls he can just chase down every one of the illusions with sheer speed.

    While there are only two known counters to Yukimura's 'psychic' type abilities, it's not like you'd expect someone like Tokugawa to just keel over against yips/dream. Yet Tokugawa hasn't done anything besides hitting 10 balls at once thus far. You've to assume someone who can hit 10 balls at a time must not be easily affected by yips or you might as well say Yukimura will never lose against any of the G10, even though Shuuji doesn't even seem particularly impressed by Tezuka who is way ahead of the rest of the middle schooler now.

    Now we know Kintaro can hit 5 balls at once but we don't know if he can do better than 5 (seems likely, but never shown), so his power level is uncertain at this point, but using Sanada's progression (broke out of yips momentarily with basic Black Aura before he can hit 5 balls at once), it is likely he'll be able to develop resistance to it because he can hit 5 balls at once. Given Kintaro is described as basically infinite endurance, if he breaks out of yips then you'd just have perpetual rallies (Kintaro had a 40 minute rally with Ryoma before) and it seems like Kintaro will eventually win due to his superior base endurance even if none of his special techniques work.

    I give the game to Yukimura due to the uncertainty of how to translate certain aspects to yips resistance but there's no way yips equates to auto-win in POT when you're dealing with 5-ball hitting guys.
    The clones improved though. Against Echizen, it was just a bunch of clones to deal with the illusion of Abare Dama, but against Hakamada, he covers the court with the them in a move I like to call "Swarming the Court."

    There's not enough evidence about how 5 at Once works to make an estimation on all of that.

    In SPoT, Yuki no longer has enough offense to hit the ball past the high level players , such as how Fuwa was returning every ball easily, so it's not as if he'll blast anything by people, but they still need to get balls past him consistently. I believe 10 at Once people crush Yuki, but 5 at Once people, it's not that clear.

  16. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 2 vs Team 9 Singles 1] Yukimura Seiichi vs Tooyama Kintarou

    This match already happened. It ended with Kintarou laying prostrate on the floor.

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