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View Poll Results: Why did Kakashi kill Rin?

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  • She's a traitor

    9 17.65%
  • He had no choice

    15 29.41%
  • Someone was controlling him

    8 15.69%
  • His attack missed someone else

    3 5.88%
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Thread: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

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    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member blackjack612's Avatar
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    Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...




    "It may be too early for you to give me your thanks just yet..."
    Madara Uchiha

    I'll keep my review short this week. As with Naruto 503, the plot isn't very dense or propulsive, so I won't try to read into what little there is. First, let's go over last review's poll. I asked the readers what they would do if offered the chance for a body like Obito's that never need poo again and the majority of you voted No. I guess you guys really value your restroom time. Now for the chapter review...


    Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...
    The images in this review are credited to Mangastream.



    As the chapter begins, Exoskeleton Zetsu helps Obito smash through the boulder blocking the cave entrance using some borrowed Gedo Mazo chakra. Madara wakes just before Obito sets off and warns the lad that he's still not ready to exert his new body. Madara also predicts that this won't be their last meeting, despite Obito's claims otherwise. Obito sets off to find Kakashi and Rin with the Zetsus guiding them with their telepathic communication and information network.

    On the way, Exoskeleton Zetsu fills Obito in on what's going on. Minato is off on another mission and Kakashi and Rin are surrounded by jonin and ANBU level shinobi from the Hidden Mist. He also mentions that the shinobi have experimental bodies but he isn't sure what that means.




    As they approach the battlefield, ExoZetsu suggests taking over when the fighting begins since he's more powerful and Obito is still recovering, but Obito believes that his sharingan united with Kakashi's will make their combinations even stronger than ever. Besides, Obito now possesses the powers of both Uchiha and Senju so his potential is very great.

    When he arrives, Obito witnesses huge explosions of water that he mistook for rain in the distance. He also receives a phantom vision in his missing eye of someone's hand pierced through Rin's chest. Obito tries to ignore it but he soon discovers that it was reality he was seeing. The chapter ends with Obito come too late to help, having found Rin on the receiving end of Kakashi's chidori.




    Naruto 604 was a mixed bag artistically. On the one hand, the locales and action were expertly rendered. Madara, Zetsu, and exoskeleton Obito also remained well drawn and designed. But I don't know what Kishimoto was thinking giving exoskeleton Obito that cloak. He looked awkward in pretty much every panel he was in. Either the angles of his body looked off or that puffy collar around his neck looked ridiculous.

    Likewise, the eyes were hit and miss which is strange considering Kishimoto is pretty much an expert in drawing unusual/stylish/emotive eyes at this point. However, I did like the effect Kishimoto used for Obito being able to see with his missing eye, even if that scene raises some logistical questions. We did get a cover, double-page title spread, and colored first page. But even beautiful images like that panel of Kakashi stabbing Rin can't cover up the artistic flaws of Reunion, and...

    edit: How great is that double page spread? I noticed upon rereading the chapter that everyone pictured aside from Kakashi and Obito looks carefree or happy as children and concerned and serious as adults.




    It's been more than a month since Naruto's delivered a truly knockout chapter, which is a shame since the current chapter's have shown shades of excellence hampered by minor problems here or there. However, Reunion, And Then... is the first chapter since Obito's reveal who's major problem wasn't the plotting or narrative direction. It was the art. I did have a minor quibble with Obito being able to see through Kakashi's eye. Is that an ability he still has? And if so, just how did he lose his recent fight against Kakashi?

    Otherwise, I thought the twist at the end was very effective. Having Kakashi be responsible for Rin's death adds a layer of anguish to Obito's character that wasn't there before and regardless of how that situation came about, I empathize with his actions more than I did previously. For that, Naruto 604 gets a ...

    4 out of 5.

    Predictions

    Well, as stated above, I was really wrong about what happened to Rin. We're still missing the big picture, of course, but her dying at Kakashi's hand isn't something I foresaw in the least. The big question is why. Was this situation really caused by the Hidden Mist (I'd say yes judging from Tobi's later actions) or was Madara influencing the situation to gain an ally when he most needs it?

    edit: I didn't vote in the poll because any of those options would be fine by me. Any of them would change one of the central trio's (Obito, Rin, Kakashi) characterization subtly. Naruto is a shonen, so having Kakashi be controlled would be the easiest way out for Kishimoto, fewer ethical issues to address. That Kakashi had no choice or missed would be darker routes to go with Kakashi. The latter would tie in really well with the resolution of Team 7's first major mission to protect the bridge builder. But if Rin was a traitor, an expanded story could dig into the chief problem with society in this series and in general: you've got a bunch of individuals with disparate motivations and goals that sometimes clash against one another and strain the ties of community.

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    Last edited by blackjack612; October 04, 2012 at 12:25 AM.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member flameorigin's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    Good review as usual! Could also be some sort of manipulation.

    Translation doesn't totally make sense Obito saying "You let Rin die," instead of saying "You killed Rin."

    So there's obviously more than meets the eye here. In fact...Wouldn't Kakashi have visited Rin's gravestone more often? Or was that gravestone for both of them?

    Then again this would fit into the 'guilt', but there's still explaining to do. This is the year of the Kakashi isn't it? I'm guessing at least 2 full months of flashback and Kakashi coming to terms and fighting
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    Intl Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Criss-Kun's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    There's still much to see. Obito never stated that Kakashi killed Rin, so he knows something. There's way, way more than meets the eye. I can't even begin to guess the reason, so this time I will not vote :P

    I believe Madara was behind the incident. As I've put out in my theory before, he went to sleep to gather chakra and energy to perform the manipulation jutsu on Yagura in order to make this plan work.

    He also clearly knows that something will happen. He talks to Obito like he knows exactly what the outcome of that situation will be.

    On the Obito-Kakashi eye link: As we know, shared vision is one of the abilities of the Rinnegan. Mere moments earlier, ExoZetsu hinted about the Rinnegan, talking about Obito now having Senju and Uchiha in him. Maybe Hashirama's cells are reacting to Obito's emotional state, and slowly unlocking a bit of the Rinnegan's power.

    Great review Blackjack, two thumbs up
    Last edited by Criss-Kun; October 04, 2012 at 12:52 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kokuryuu's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack612 View Post
    Naruto is a shonen, so having Kakashi be controlled would be the easiest way out for Kishimoto, fewer ethical issues to address.
    I'm not sure of that... this situation reminds me Rurouni Kenshin (a shonen) a little, when he kills his wife by accident. So I'm going to say that this is some kind of accident, or like I voted in the poll (but more unlikely to me), he has no choice for some reason, because he was crying and all.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    Good review, although imo. i would rule out the possibility of Rin being a traitor. Not only would she need to be a hella young and extraordinary performer, but the fact that her grave was still established in the Konoha cemetary kinda makes me believe she belonged there because she was nothing else than a Konoha shinobi.

    Is Kakashi a Zetzu?
    Did Kakashi by accident kill rin in the mist of battle
    Did Zetzu create many rin clones and Kakashi fell on the wrong one?


    I'd say Zetzu having morphed into Kakashi or Rin are the most probable one.

    Either way, i've called it for a quite a while, this is , in one way or another Madara's doing. Zetzu was created not to help Obito, but to make sure he would be there for Madara to use... Zetzu said it himself.... would Zetzu obey Obito above Madara ? There is a reason for this. Zetzu will soon appear before Madara saying that everything worked as intended.

    Obito will eventually walk on the path of redemtion, he will learn Madara orchestrated all of this and will sacrifice again himself to protect Kakashi.

    Do you seriously believe Naruto and co can match Obito and madara when they could barely take on Sharingan Obito? Sasuke either needs to arrive or Obito needs to switch sides... thats my call.

    My child, do not hesitate, it is the path you chose after all.
    Our suffering will only last an instant, it is nothing compared to what you will have to face.
    Our opinions may differ, but i am still proud of you - Fugaku
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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    awesome review! you made it in just some lines!!! anyway,anout the main theme of this chapter,that is kakashi's action,I have 3 hypothesis:
    1)kakashi was forced for some reasons,as if rin had been like kaien shiba of bleach,totally possessed by an external entity;
    2)rin is a fake made by the hidden mist;
    3)both kakashi and rin are zetsu clones created because of madara's purpose.
    also,the fact madara was so sure that they would meet again hints that he already knew about that...otherwise why would he have had to make such a statement?

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kokuryuu's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    also,the fact madara was so sure that they would meet again hints that he already knew about that...otherwise why would he have had to make such a statement?
    He could be talking figuratively, something like "you will see, sooner than later, that this world is just crap like I already said to you", you know Madara just being optimistic
    Of course, hinting that that scene is something staged is also possible.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    Great review, as always.
    Now, why did Kakashi kill Rin? ...or did he?

    It depends on many factors.
    First of all, what did Obito see? Was it a link between his sharingans? Then it's probable that Kakashi killed "Rin". It is unknown if it's really Rin or it is a Zetsu clone.
    Was it a link between all white Zetsus? Then Rin is dead and killed by "Kakashi", real or a Zetsu clone. Who knows, maybe while Obito was inside that Zetsu-suit, he was fed the information from the clone that has killed Rin.
    If the latter is true, then Zetsu could feed Obito anything, for example, "Rin" killed by "Kakashi".

    But the most possible turn of events is that Rin is dead, so it's most probably the second version of mine.
    Last edited by Wint; October 05, 2012 at 07:47 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Avishek's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    The hidden mist attacking Kakashi and Rin soon after Obito's entry into Madara's plan is too convenient. But if Madara isnt influencing the fight and due to his inexperience with the sharingan led to Kakashi killing Rin it would explain why Obito thinks that the reality is a joke in which we have no control over how we lead our lives. Kakashi is becoming the poster boy for Obito's plans.

    Let Kakashi have killed Rin by mistake and not some Zetsu related incident. The spiral zetsu is still in major control of Obito's body and it would be fitting that Obito is dragged away from a dying Rin and a grief stricken Kakashi trying desperately to keep her alive, and failing.
    Last edited by Avishek; October 05, 2012 at 10:16 PM.
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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    My prediction is that the experimental bodies were created with data stolen by Rin, Kakashi was sent to deal with the traitor. Rin did it because a Zetsu told her Obito was alive and the experimental body program could save him. Madara realizing that killing Rin would get Obito to hate Kakashi had a Zetsu inform an Uchiha who delivered the news to the kage/council who ordered Rins death.

    In other words Madara set Rin and Kakashi up to get Obito.

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    it's also nice the fact that the mist was testing guinea pigs,maybe they were creating those fishmen like kisame,fuguki and those with shark teeth (suigetsu,chojuro ecc.)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack612 View Post
    But if Rin was a traitor, an expanded story could dig into the chief problem with society in this series and in general: you've got a bunch of individuals with disparate motivations and goals that sometimes clash against one another and strain the ties of community.
    Pretty much sums up the whole theme of Naruto (and also the reality of our real world).

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member KaitenV's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    I believe that it's going to turn out to be an imposter. I couldn't begin to imagine why Kakashi would make the mistake of killing Rin. Plot twist.
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sanga Au79's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    im glad you hinted at the cloak situation. the bulkiness and exozetsu bring up question about the 9tails attack vs the 4th Hokage and could explain it being a possible zetsu, madara, obito combination. but relating to kakashi killing rin, i think it was a tactical killing. in other words. it was he and rin vs countless shinobi. he's experienced enemies sparing the life of medical nin for their skills but she could also become a distraction for the enemy to use against kakashi..so he killed rin to save her life knowing that he might die also. that way he keeps leaf practices safe, keeps rin from being a hostage..and in the even the had to die he'd be dead also.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 604 Reunion, and ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanga Au79 View Post
    im glad you hinted at the cloak situation. the bulkiness and exozetsu bring up question about the 9tails attack vs the 4th Hokage and could explain it being a possible zetsu, madara, obito combination. but relating to kakashi killing rin, i think it was a tactical killing. in other words. it was he and rin vs countless shinobi. he's experienced enemies sparing the life of medical nin for their skills but she could also become a distraction for the enemy to use against kakashi..so he killed rin to save her life knowing that he might die also. that way he keeps leaf practices safe, keeps rin from being a hostage..and in the even the had to die he'd be dead also.
    That's dumb logic. If Kakashi left Rin alive in such a situation, she could've been captured, but the worst thing after that is: she'd be killed (I doubt she could be controlled in a way that'd enable her to put Kakashi in a disadvantageous enough position in battle, since a medical nin can't do much). So, he killed her so she'd not be killed?
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