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Thread: Claymore 132 Discussion

  1. #316
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Seska's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    You guys forgotten something about Galatea. Sure she is Master in Yoki Reading, that tops Thabiata. But She has other "Abilities", too
    Think back the Time, when She was in Active Duty and was "hunting" Clare after she gone Undercover and gone herself to Rescue the Claymores from Rifuls "Awaken Torture"..

    Well, Yagi dont show the Fight. But in the Tunnel She told her "Battle Skill" Secret. But it was not enough to Beat Dauf, but this is the Proof while she was a Single Digit at Her Time.

    So, she is kinda of "Theresa" Light. Rare shown her True Battle force. We just grown used to see her "Supreme Yoki Eye" Reading so far, and forgotten this. She can Bite and Sting, too

    (Sorry, i am to lazy now to hunt the Manga Scene)

    Quote Quote:
    But something I have been thinking of, and that is: Why didn't Galatea learn a technique like Raphaela which resembles En (HXH), because with that she can see other things that aren't using Yoki, like the ghosts when they were clocked, humans and objects which will not only increase her easiness in movement but also help her if her opponent throw something that isn't Yoki based like a normal sword or a spear on the ground.
    Well for me i found a solution to that. Compare Galatea now with Jordie La Forge from Star Trek Next Generation. Jordie "see" his surroundings like "Energies-waves" (I remember 1 Episode, where he shown/explain to someone how his Visor works). So, i come to myself. Galatea learned to read the "Earth and Lifeforms" Yokis around her. So She has a Image inside her Mind. (Remember her Jumps around the Walls, dodging Attacks and so. The "Stones" are emitting weak Earth Yoki)
    So, if someone is reading here, this is the best conclusion for me, how Galatea can still "See" other Lifeforms and such
    Last edited by Seska; November 04, 2012 at 02:17 PM.

  2. #317
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Mangastream has released their version of Claymore chapter (also with Gernot's translation) but the translation is a bit different than what we have here.

  3. #318
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BleachFan2010's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1 View Post
    That certainly is possible. Yagi did leave us on a cliffhanger with "Riful". I do want an explanation for what happened or why/how she survived if it is still Riful. The most plausible thing I can think of is that she was infected by the Destroyer but remained dormant until now.
    I think thats probably the direction Yagi will go in. What if Riful purposefully infected herself like Dauf? Because dauf was ripped apart by Priscilla and when he became infected he regenerated ? Maybe because Riful is stornger than Dauf she was somehow able to control the infection ?

  4. #319
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    I was so happy... and sad... Chronos said it is not riful but similar to riful >.<

    Riful should not be dead >.< Long live Riful :-)

    I don't think Riful is infected if that's Riful..
    The only remains we saw was her upper body..
    This lower half body which we saw now might be her regenerating..

    Long live Riful~~~~

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  6. #320
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Something I want to point out, in general, is this idea that Priscilla has gotten a power-up because of her situation with Raciella....what evidence is there to suggest this?

    Nothing really -- I can't see anything suggesting that either Priscilla or Raciella has gotten any sort of power-up; I think people are just used to that because of the typical fusion-process from other series where such a scenario happens. The thing is though, here, there isn't any sort of fusion going on, but merely a fight for control of Priscilla's body.

    From the perspective of Raciella, who is weaker then Priscilla (I say presumably, but there has never been evidence supporting otherwise really, except speculation, regardless of the fact that we could never figure out how strong she was exactly, except definitely stronger then a "normal' Abyssal...thing is, even that, we've never gotten anything objectively that even supported that -- Riful did say it was only a matter of time until it became stronger then her, way back when, so we can assume it's at least as strong as her, and considering how powerful a rod smashed through her body, I'm inclined to think she is stronger, so Raciella is stronger then an Abyssal One, relatively speaking, even if not the overwhelming amount like Priscilla is), you could indeed say this is a power-up, but that's relatively speaking...

    What I mean to say is, some people seem to think their powers are combining and nothing thus far suggests that, and I'd like to think something of the insane magnitude of Priscilla getting a power-up, would be noted by Galatea or somebody....but no, this seems to be purely a mental-struggle and nothing else. This leads me to believe that Raciella, for all intents and purposes, is dead because she's essentially lost her body....which means, unless she has a sort of network-mentality and can 'live on' through one of her HellCats....if Priscilla ends up winning the struggle, Raciella is basically dead.

    Even if Raciella wins out, there is nothing suggesting a conventional power-up in the sense of, say, yoki-increasing....again, such a thing would be picked up by somebody if something like that were happening and it's not. I think people are taking the tentacles a bit too far...because even if Raciella/Priscilla gain eachother's techniques when they end up winning the mental game, that doesn't necessarily mean their will have a power-up....not anymore then Claire presumably has by taking on Rafaela's memories.

    So no, I wouldn't say there are any power-ups going on, like the sort people are thinking of anyway...and considering how strong Priscilla and Raciella already were, they don't really need another.

    ---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------

    That said, who is more likely to win? Well, let's see...

    My first guess would obviously be for Priscilla, simply due to the sheer aggression and power her Awakened form possesses....that being said, while we can't underestimate the kind of drive such a hollow being like Raciella has (so vast yet unintelligent...makes for a very dangerous foe because there is nothing to hold them back -- there are nothing but unrelenting drive because she has 'nothing'), we also can't overestimate Priscilla's mental defenses....for all her power, we know how vulnerable she is mentally, and even this malevolent Awakened persona is not immune to this....if anything, this probably has much to do with why Priscilla is only attacking Awakened Beings....we may not have gotten the show-stopping mental showdown between Claire and Priscilla inside the blob that I kept whining about, but Priscilla may actually be going through changes because of Raciella's influence if her behavior now is any indication.

    If Raciella wins out, Priscilla, for all intents and purposes, will actually die out....and "Priscilla" will truly truly be the monster she has been labelled as for so long -- a mindless beast with ultimate power....if Priscilla wins however, it's very possibly that this behavior will continue and she may get some interesting growth ahead of her.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  7. #321
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member God Eye Galatea's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
    Something I want to point out, in general, is this idea that Priscilla has gotten a power-up because of her situation with Raciella....what evidence is there to suggest this?

    Nothing really -- I can't see anything suggesting that either Priscilla or Raciella has gotten any sort of power-up; I think people are just used to that because of the typical fusion-process from other series where such a scenario happens. The thing is though, here, there isn't any sort of fusion going on, but merely a fight for control of Priscilla's body.

    From the perspective of Raciella, who is weaker then Priscilla (I say presumably, but there has never been evidence supporting otherwise really, except speculation, regardless of the fact that we could never figure out how strong she was exactly, except definitely stronger then a "normal' Abyssal...thing is, even that, we've never gotten anything objectively that even supported that -- Riful did say it was only a matter of time until it became stronger then her, way back when, so we can assume it's at least as strong as her, and considering how powerful a rod smashed through her body, I'm inclined to think she is stronger, so Raciella is stronger then an Abyssal One, relatively speaking, even if not the overwhelming amount like Priscilla is), you could indeed say this is a power-up, but that's relatively speaking...

    What I mean to say is, some people seem to think their powers are combining and nothing thus far suggests that, and I'd like to think something of the insane magnitude of Priscilla getting a power-up, would be noted by Galatea or somebody....but no, this seems to be purely a mental-struggle and nothing else. This leads me to believe that Raciella, for all intents and purposes, is dead because she's essentially lost her body....which means, unless she has a sort of network-mentality and can 'live on' through one of her HellCats....if Priscilla ends up winning the struggle, Raciella is basically dead.

    Even if Raciella wins out, there is nothing suggesting a conventional power-up in the sense of, say, yoki-increasing....again, such a thing would be picked up by somebody if something like that were happening and it's not. I think people are taking the tentacles a bit too far...because even if Raciella/Priscilla gain eachother's techniques when they end up winning the mental game, that doesn't necessarily mean their will have a power-up....not anymore then Claire presumably has by taking on Rafaela's memories.

    So no, I wouldn't say there are any power-ups going on, like the sort people are thinking of anyway...and considering how strong Priscilla and Raciella already were, they don't really need another.
    Shiek, I beg to differ. I don't think the Destroyer Priscilla is just mentally struggling for over only Priscilla's body. I believe there is indeed some kind of fusion between Priscilla and Destroyer, and first process of the fusion was phsycially merging, then this mental battle now is the next process of the fusion, the mental merging, where whoever win this would be the controller of this fusioned body. Parts of the Destroyer must have merged with Priscilla's body because the last time I checked Priscilla didn't have tentacles with life draining power (note: draining life force from the high ranking awaken beings actually had given the Destroyer a slight advantage). Chronos and the ghosts were sensing two beings battling internally for control, so there are two presence there and probably giving off two different yoki signatures within the Destroyer Priscilla. You suggested that all this as just merely a mental struggle, but how did the Destroyer gotten into Priscilla's head to fight for control without at least some sort of fusion or merging with her?

    With that said, we can't say for sure what happens after either the Destroyer or Priscilla gain complete control over the body. Maybe the losing would be suppressed and becomes dormant, or be digested like food. Or maybe the winning side would gain the ability and technique of the losing side, in that case for some people it would really seem like a power-up, Priscilla with life draining power or Destroyer with instantaneous regeneration.

    On the tentacles topic, it was more about the connections between the Destroyer and the lower body of this supposed "Riful," rather than the power-ups for the Destroyer or Priscilla.
    Last edited by God Eye Galatea; November 05, 2012 at 01:10 AM.

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  9. #322
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    I think this is all coming down to a semantics thing.

    The problem I have is with the word "fusion" - which implies, basically, what happened with Rafaela and Luciella: two beings, physically and mentally, becoming one....obviously, with the latter, something went wrong since the result wasn't some being with the two combined memories, personalities and soon, but basically a very powerful unintelligent animal.

    To imply that Raciella and Priscilla are 'fusing' is the same thing - that the two are becoming one...or at least, both dying and being replaced by something new -- but this isn't the case at all. Priscilla's body is, for starters, the same as before....there is no grand change whatsoever -- we never saw Rafaela's awakened body, and Luciella's was the monstrous feline Abyssal...Raciella was a giant statue-esque mountain, which is now gone....we now simply have Priscilla's body that, physically, looks the same as it ever did.

    The only indication whatsoever that anything is even going on to clue us in, besides her behavior and the characters flat-out telling us, is because of that new Riful-tentacle attack which is different then her usual bodily manipulation, and Chronos (If I remember right) saying that she is absorbing like Raciella and not simply killing.

    This is it - no great transformation of any sort; mentally, both Raciella and Priscilla inhabit the latter's body which is the same as it always was, barring this new technique.

    Again, I believe this is all semantics, because "fusion" usually implies the two becoming one and a new being to replace them both -- in a looser sense, where one is absorbed into the other and the other remains, albeit with new abilities, you could get away with the fusing/merger/whatever...but that doesn't seem totally right either -- Claire has been getting power-ups for ages now, such as taking Irene's arm...I wouldn't necessarily call that a "fusion" though because that implies too much that simply isn't true - it's easier and more accurate just to say she's getting a power-up.

    I'm going back and forth about this, but to clear things up...

    1) Raciella lives yet -- can she regain any shape or body of her own, is unknown,; it is also unknown if she can exist through a hive-ability through the creatures she spawns/infects. Thus, as far as we know, the state she is within Priscilla is all that she encompasses and puts her in an extremely dangerous situation, because if Priscilla mentally stomps her, she is essentially dead; she has now seemingly been reduced to a pure state of consciousness with no real body of her own.

    It is quite possible however that the hive-mentality is accurate, and she intends to control and use Priscilla's body as her primary host -- even if the the former is false, it would still make Priscilla a real monster as I went into before, as Raciella would be in control of the most powerful creature. Even if the hive-mentality is wrong and she can't mentally spread her reach (which, if true, would make defeating her borderline impossible, and you would have to stamp out every means she has of projecting herself, which means wiping out every single one of her minions/infected victims, etc), it is quite possible she can still mentally communicate with her (infected) pawns, and "Riful" could very well be one of them.

    2) Raciella has seemingly invaded Priscilla's mind as I just explained....naturally, this was undoubtedly unintended -- with her body reduced to a blob, and the blob exploded to pieces when Priscilla escaped, it indeed looks like Raciella has no body of her own as I just went into -- that said, we can scratch "fusion" off the list, as this is certainly no conventional merger where the two combine themselves in every way, including bodily -- thus, we can safely say there has been and isn't any power-upgrade of any sort....something like this, simply would not pass the sensing of anybody nearby, especially the Ghosts who prevously has scanned her and know her potential as well as Raciella...they'd know if she were getting stronger. Of course, from Raciella's point-of-view, it certainly is a power-increase if she ends up taking over.

    3) Regardless of actual power-increases though, that doesn't necessarily make the tentacles we see as contradictory....if Raciella indeed succeeds in conquering Priscilla's body, it would be natural that she would use her incredible power in the style she prefers -- Priscilla's power makes for incredible potential and with Raciella's specific skill-set and preferences, this would make for new techniques, like the tentacles we saw. It's natural to assume that, when we see a new technique or attack or whatever, a power-increase was involved somewhere, and perhaps in a looser sense it's true....but that's not really the case, at least with what some people say. Again, Raciella, if she succeeds in taking over, will use her new host body the way she wants too, which will definitely open the door to new techniques and abilities we haven't seen to reflect this....that doesn't whatsoever necessity or imply an actual yoki-increase in power. Any sort of increase would not be missed by, well, anyone, and nothing thus far shows any sign of this. This is akin to Claire fighting with greater efficacy and experience through Rafaela's memories/experiences and so on...Claire didn't physically power-up, but she gained experience and became stronger fighting in a new style.

    For the nth time, this is not a merger in a physical sense (akin to Rafaela and Luciella - both essentially die and are replaced by an entirely new being) - at best, this is the looser sort of one getting absorbed into the other, except such mergers are usually bodily and grant the person new powers and abiliites, in the sense of Claire getting power-ups. This isn't even that case because they are both fighting for dominion of the same body ("transfer", not merger, perhaps is a better term - Raciella transferred her consciousness into Priscilla's mind) -- the best example of I could give is if Rafaela attempted to take over Claire's body forcibly....had she succeeded, "Claire" would essentially die and Rafaela would take her place - this obviously wouldn't increase her yoki but she would use her body in the best way she can, with her experience and style (i.e. the tentacles from Priscilla's body).

    Of course, such a transfer could be more trouble then it's worth, if you take over a weak person's body, or you can't efficiently use it....Raciella has the benefit of attempting to take over the strongest person in the island with incredible capability, giving her amazing room to work with...plus, being a instinctual animal, Raciella possesses relentless drive comparable with Priscilla's awakened aggression, not to mention, Priscilla is notably mentally vulnerable, so the odds are perhaps in her favor.

    If Priscilla succeeds in winning, will she have new Raciella-abilities? Probably not...if she drives Raciella from her mind, then that's the end of that - it's her body after all so she has less to "gain" from this experience. It's quite possible she may learn and pick up a few new tricks however regardless, but I doubt it. I call this akin to Rafaela attempting to take over Claire and Claire wins out....Claire may have learned a few things from her brief mental struggle with Rafaela, but largely, she will be the same as before as this was not a peaceful transfer but a mental battle -- Claire/Priscilla want Rafaela/Raciella out, so they aren't trying to learn something new, even if they end up doing so.
    Last edited by Shiek927; November 05, 2012 at 02:09 AM.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  10. #323
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member God Eye Galatea's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
    I think this is all coming down to a semantics thing.

    The problem I have is with the word "fusion" - which implies, basically, what happened with Rafaela and Luciella: two beings, physically and mentally, becoming one....obviously, with the latter, something went wrong since the result wasn't some being with the two combined memories, personalities and soon, but basically a very powerful unintelligent animal.

    To imply that Raciella and Priscilla are 'fusing' is the same thing - that the two are becoming one...or at least, both dying and being replaced by something new -- but this isn't the case at all. Priscilla's body is, for starters, the same as before....there is no grand change whatsoever -- we never saw Rafaela's awakened body, and Luciella's was the monstrous feline Abyssal...Raciella was a giant statue-esque mountain, which is now gone....we now simply have Priscilla's body that, physically, looks the same as it ever did.

    The only indication whatsoever that anything is even going on to clue us in, besides her behavior and the characters flat-out telling us, is because of that new Riful-tentacle attack which is different then her usual bodily manipulation, and Chronos (If I remember right) saying that she is absorbing like Raciella and not simply killing.

    This is it - no great transformation of any sort; mentally, both Raciella and Priscilla inhabit the latter's body which is the same as it always was, barring this new technique.

    Again, I believe this is all semantics, because "fusion" usually implies the two becoming one and a new being to replace them both -- in a looser sense, where one is absorbed into the other and the other remains, albeit with new abilities, you could get away with the fusing/merger/whatever...but that doesn't seem totally right either -- Claire has been getting power-ups for ages now, such as taking Irene's arm...I wouldn't necessarily call that a "fusion" though because that implies too much that simply isn't true - it's easier and more accurate just to say she's getting a power-up.

    I'm going back and forth about this, but to clear things up...

    1) Raciella lives yet -- can she regain any shape or body of her own, is unknown,; it is also unknown if she can exist through a hive-ability through the creatures she spawns/infects. Thus, as far as we know, the state she is within Priscilla is all that she encompasses and puts her in an extremely dangerous situation, because if Priscilla mentally stomps her, she is essentially dead; she has now seemingly been reduced to a pure state of consciousness with no real body of her own.

    It is quite possible however that the hive-mentality is accurate, and she intends to control and use Priscilla's body as her primary host -- even if the the former is false, it would still make Priscilla a real monster as I went into before, as Raciella would be in control of the most powerful creature. Even if the hive-mentality is wrong and she can't mentally spread her reach (which, if true, would make defeating her borderline impossible, and you would have to stamp out every means she has of projecting herself, which means wiping out every single one of her minions/infected victims, etc), it is quite possible she can still mentally communicate with her (infected) pawns, and "Riful" could very well be one of them.

    2) Raciella has seemingly invaded Priscilla's mind as I just explained....naturally, this was undoubtedly unintended -- with her body reduced to a blob, and the blob exploded to pieces when Priscilla escaped, it indeed looks like Raciella has no body of her own as I just went into -- that said, we can scratch "fusion" off the list, as this is certainly no conventional merger where the two combine themselves in every way, including bodily -- thus, we can safely say there has been and isn't any power-upgrade of any sort....something like this, simply would not pass the sensing of anybody nearby, especially the Ghosts who prevously has scanned her and know her potential as well as Raciella...they'd know if she were getting stronger. Of course, from Raciella's point-of-view, it certainly is a power-increase if she ends up taking over.

    3) Regardless of actual power-increases though, that doesn't necessarily make the tentacles we see as contradictory....if Raciella indeed succeeds in conquering Priscilla's body, it would be natural that she would use her incredible power in the style she prefers -- Priscilla's power makes for incredible potential and with Raciella's specific skill-set and preferences, this would make for new techniques, like the tentacles we saw. It's natural to assume that, when we see a new technique or attack or whatever, a power-increase was involved somewhere, and perhaps in a looser sense it's true....but that's not really the case, at least with what some people say. Again, Raciella, if she succeeds in taking over, will use her new host body the way she wants too, which will definitely open the door to new techniques and abilities we haven't seen to reflect this....that doesn't whatsoever necessity or imply an actual yoki-increase in power. Any sort of increase would not be missed by, well, anyone, and nothing thus far shows any sign of this. This is akin to Claire fighting with greater efficacy and experience through Rafaela's memories/experiences and so on...Claire didn't physically power-up, but she gained experience and became stronger fighting in a new style.

    For the nth time, this is not a merger in a physical sense (akin to Rafaela and Luciella - both essentially die and are replaced by an entirely new being) - at best, this is the looser sort of one getting absorbed into the other, except such mergers are usually bodily and grant the person new powers and abiliites, in the sense of Claire getting power-ups. This isn't even that case because they are both fighting for dominion of the same body ("transfer", not merger, perhaps is a better term - Raciella transferred her consciousness into Priscilla's mind) -- the best example of I could give is if Rafaela attempted to take over Claire's body forcibly....had she succeeded, "Claire" would essentially die and Rafaela would take her place - this obviously wouldn't increase her yoki but she would use her body in the best way she can, with her experience and style (i.e. the tentacles from Priscilla's body).

    Of course, such a transfer could be more trouble then it's worth, if you take over a weak person's body, or you can't efficiently use it....Raciella has the benefit of attempting to take over the strongest person in the island with incredible capability, giving her amazing room to work with...plus, being a instinctual animal, Raciella possesses relentless drive comparable with Priscilla's awakened aggression, not to mention, Priscilla is notably mentally vulnerable, so the odds are perhaps in her favor.

    If Priscilla succeeds in winning, will she have new Raciella-abilities? Probably not...if she drives Raciella from her mind, then that's the end of that - it's her body after all so she has less to "gain" from this experience. It's quite possible she may learn and pick up a few new tricks however regardless, but I doubt it. I call this akin to Rafaela attempting to take over Claire and Claire wins out....Claire may have learned a few things from her brief mental struggle with Rafaela, but largely, she will be the same as before as this was not a peaceful transfer but a mental battle -- Claire/Priscilla want Rafaela/Raciella out, so they aren't trying to learn something new, even if they end up doing so.
    You are really beating around the bush on this one...

    The case with Luciella and Rafaela is very different than the fusion between Priscilla and the Destroyer. First, Luciella was an awaken being and Rafaela was still a Claymore. Second, Luciella was dead and Rafaela was "alive" when the fusion began, Rafaela transferred her life force into Luciella as she killed her with her hug of death. Neither Luciella nor Rafaela have demonstrated to have any fusing power before becoming the Destroyer.

    However, the Destroyer have shown in several occasions to have parasitic fusing powers, like hellcat rider Beth and hellcats armed Dauf. Thus, it is not out of the ordinary to think that the Destroyer has now merged with Priscilla physically. The twisted twins goddess statue giant was never the Destroyer's true form as it was just its masquerade, the massive blacken formless yoki mass was its true form. It is quite possible after the physical fusion, the Destroyer is hiding in Priscilla's form since it doesn't have a definite form to begin with, much like the how Priscilla is able to hide her massive bodily extensions.

    If it is as you said, the Destroyer succeeds in conquering Priscilla's body, then it would use style it prefers. But, that's when the Destroyer has gained control over Priscilla's body, that's what the mental struggle is for now to gain control over the body. Therefore, if it is like you said, then the Destroyer shouldn't be able to use its life draining power from Priscilla's own body yet. Furthermore, if it's only Priscilla's body, how would draining life force from the high ranking awaken beings give the Destroyer a slight advantage?

    I have to clear this out, Rafaela never forcibly attempted to take over Clare's body. Rafaela clearly stated that it was Clare who intruded into her mind. Rafaela only told Clare that if she died in the mental world, then she would be like dead in the real world too since her mind would be gone, Rafaela never suggested that she would take Clare's place. Clare's case is different too. She in some way did mentally merge with Rafaela's mind as she aborbed Rafaela's memories, experiences, and emotions.

    You are surely hung up on issues of power-ups and yoki increase. As I stated already, we can't be sure what happens after the Destroyer or Priscilla gains complete control from this merging or fusion. There are so many possibilities. Maybe the losing would be suppressed and becomes dormant, or be digeseted like food. Maybe the winning side would gain the the ability and techique of the losing side, then in this case some people would feel that it is a power-up, can't really blame them for feeling this way, imagine Priscilla with life draining power or the Destroyer with instantaneous regeneration. The issue of yoki increase, it is possibility that it could happen, you argue that somebody should have noticed already, but the thing is that the fusion is not yet completed, and Priscilla's natural ability of yoki suppression may even throw the best sensor off.

    Another thing, from Chapter 128, it is shown that Priscilla was physically fused with the blob (as you believed that the blob was the Destroyer), thus it is not baseless to think that there is some sort of physical fusion or merging occurred between the the Destroyer and Priscilla.
    Spoiler show
    Last edited by God Eye Galatea; November 05, 2012 at 12:28 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    I'm not beating around anything -- i'm trying to be as clear as possible because people are drawing up ideas even though, thus far, there is nothing to suggest them. Could they happen anyway? Sure, they could....I'm simply trying to go by what we know to be true and working from there, but not too far so I don't make the mistake of making unfounded assumptions.

    That's why I'm trying to be extra-careful with the choice of words so I don't imply something I really don't. You're consistently using the word "fusion" for instance which often implies many things that may or may not be the case with this. The idea that Rafaela transferred her life-force into Luciella is strange for instance because we don't have anything suggesting anything like a 'life force' even existing -- I get your point, but it's often little things like that send people flying in different directions. How often are speculations based around the semantics and word-for-word nitpicking of the character's dialog for instance?

    Quote Quote:
    I have to clear this out, Rafaela never forcibly attempted to take over Clare's body. Rafaela clearly stated that it was Clare who intruded into her mind. Rafaela only told Clare that if she died in the mental world, then she would be like dead in the real world too since her mind would be gone, Rafaela never suggested that she would take Clare's place. Clare's case is different too. She in some way did mentally merge with Rafaela's mind as she aborbed Rafaela's memories, experiences, and emotions.
    I'm aware of all that; I was just making an example there to make my point.

    Quote Quote:
    If it is as you said, the Destroyer succeeds in conquering Priscilla's body, then it would use style it prefers. But, that's when the Destroyer has gained control over Priscilla's body, that's what the mental struggle is for now to gain control over the body. Therefore, if it is like you said, then the Destroyer shouldn't be able to use its life draining power from Priscilla's own body yet. Furthermore, if it's only Priscilla's body, how would draining life force from the high ranking awaken beings give the Destroyer a slight advantage?
    Good question -- I can imagine that the more Raciella has a foot-hold over Priscilla, mentally, the more control she has over her body even if she doesn't have full-control yet. She may not have complete control, but we are seeing tentacles already...difficult to say how much, but it's a sign that Raciella has some level of authority.

    We can probably take that as a sign -- the more Raciella is gaining control, the more of her style we will see....the less, the more Priscilla is winning.

    --

    I think we're basically on the same page, really
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by God Eye Galatea View Post
    (...) Rafaela transferred her life force into Luciella as she killed her with her hug of death. Neither Luciella nor Rafaela have demonstrated to have any fusing power before becoming the Destroyer. (...)
    Actually we don't know that and I think that is rather strange interpretation. Why kill and then transfer oneself to the corpse? IMO Rafaela tried a soul link while holding her sister as strong as she could (even though exhausted, Luciella was still an AO so it must have required a significant amount of force to do that), i.e. she tried the thing Rubel explicitly advised against and it produced unexpected results. Apparently a point blank soul link with an AO whose consciousness went to the other side can create a fusion where the end result is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (i.e. Destroyer is stronger than two AOs). In other words, Cyclone was right 5 years ago.

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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    I do not believe that in Priscilla is only the mind of the destroyer.
    If that's true, why does he want the yoki of awakened? The only logical reason is that he introduced some of its mass in Priscilla, only in this way
    he could take advantage of the yoki of the awakened
    and add it to him.
    Because if there is only the mind, where are going this yoki?

    This makes sense to me. Why the massa disappeared when Priscilla escaped? For me Priscilla not destroyed it. If so, the remains of the massa would be on the floor (like the remains of Daufh) but miria clearly said that there was nothing when she tried to kill Priscilla. The destroyer was introduced into her ( reducing bestial manner his size) on purpose.

    And if Priscilla winning the mental duel. The destroyer will not die, only
    he will leave the body of Priscilla.
    Because if it dies, Where was the huge yoki had him? It is impossible to disappear without reason.
    Last edited by su5so; November 05, 2012 at 02:18 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    Actually we don't know that and I think that is rather strange interpretation. Why kill and then transfer oneself to the corpse? IMO Rafaela tried a soul link while holding her sister as strong as she could (even though exhausted, Luciella was still an AO so it must have required a significant amount of force to do that), i.e. she tried the thing Rubel explicitly advised against and it produced unexpected results. Apparently a point blank soul link with an AO whose consciousness went to the other side can create a fusion where the end result is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (i.e. Destroyer is stronger than two AOs). In other words, Cyclone was right 5 years ago.
    I was back and forth about writing that Gooral, but you (or rather, Cyclone) was correct -- there was, is, nothing suggesting that Luciella was killed or that was ever truly Rafaela's intention at all when you remember what he said and look at what happened. The idea that Rafaela was "carrying" Luciella's consciousness/humanity/etc within her, which is why she never once used her yoki, makes a whole lot of sense.

    I never liked it because, in part, I didn't like the idea that black/white image that Luciella was simply a monster as an Abyssal - I never liked that image or that image as a whole with Awakened Beings in general, and I went into massive posts about it way back in the day, defending and justifying her. Otherwise though, what Cyclone said always made sense and seemed like the most satisfying theory in piecing everything together over Rafaela simply killing her sister in such a bizarre way and the fusion was merely an accident.
    Last edited by Shiek927; November 05, 2012 at 02:40 PM.
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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member God Eye Galatea's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
    I'm not beating around anything -- i'm trying to be as clear as possible because people are drawing up ideas even though, thus far, there is nothing to suggest them. Could they happen anyway? Sure, they could....I'm simply trying to go by what we know to be true and working from there, but not too far so I don't make the mistake of making unfounded assumptions.

    That's why I'm trying to be extra-careful with the choice of words so I don't imply something I really don't. You're consistently using the word "fusion" for instance which often implies many things that may or may not be the case with this. The idea that Rafaela transferred her life-force into Luciella is strange for instance because we don't have anything suggesting anything like a 'life force' even existing -- I get your point, but it's often little things like that send people flying in different directions. How often are speculations based around the semantics and word-for-word nitpicking of the character's dialog for instance?

    I'm aware of all that; I was just making an example there to make my point.

    Good question -- I can imagine that the more Raciella has a foot-hold over Priscilla, mentally, the more control she has over her body even if she doesn't have full-control yet. She may not have complete control, but we are seeing tentacles already...difficult to say how much, but it's a sign that Raciella has some level of authority.

    We can probably take that as a sign -- the more Raciella is gaining control, the more of her style we will see....the less, the more Priscilla is winning.

    --

    I think we're basically on the same page, really


    The assumption that the Destroyer and Priscilla have somehow fused or merged together is not unfounded.
    • Priscilla was shown to be physically fused with the blob before it was broken free as Clare was released
    • The Destroyer Priscilla is displaying power that the Destroyer had
    • Chronos and the ghosts sensed that there are two beings battling internally for control
    • The Destroyer had demonstrated in several occasions that it has parasitic fusing ability, Beth, Dauf, and hellcat rods were the prime examples.

    So which it is...? So now that if the Destroyer has more control mentally, then it would use Priscilla's body to display more style of its own power, and it has some authority... But, several characters already stated that Destroyer and Priscilla are in a deadlock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    Actually we don't know that and I think that is rather strange interpretation. Why kill and then transfer oneself to the corpse? IMO Rafaela tried a soul link while holding her sister as strong as she could (even though exhausted, Luciella was still an AO so it must have required a significant amount of force to do that), i.e. she tried the thing Rubel explicitly advised against and it produced unexpected results. Apparently a point blank soul link with an AO whose consciousness went to the other side can create a fusion where the end result is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (i.e. Destroyer is stronger than two AOs). In other words, Cyclone was right 5 years ago.
    Actually, we sort of do.

    Spoiler show


    Spoiler show


    If anyone was to be able to figure out what caused the merging between Luciella and Rafaela, I figure it would be Riful who spent 7 years with it. I am not going to be debating this.
    Spoiler show
    Last edited by God Eye Galatea; November 05, 2012 at 02:56 PM.

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  18. #329
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    The assumption that the Destroyer and Priscilla have somehow fused or merged together is not unfounded.
    • Priscilla was shown to be physically fused with the blob before it was broken free as Clare was released
    • The Destroyer Priscilla is displaying power that the Destroyer had
    • Chronos and the ghosts sensed that there are two beings battling internally for control
    • The Destroyer had demonstrated in several occasions that it has parasitic fusing ability, Beth, Dauf, and hellcat rods were the prime examples.

    So which it is...? So now that if the Destroyer has more control mentally, then it would use Priscilla's body to display more style of its own power, and it has some authority... But, several characters already stated that Destroyer and Priscilla are in a deadlock.
    Not really sensing your confusion, though maybe it's a good thing -- we're making head-way into breaking this down, even if it's mostly just semantics.

    I'm not sure though, again, where your exactly trouble is -- 'so which is it'? It's really all of the above....Raciella no longer really exists except as a consciousness within Priscilla, grappling for control of her body -- as she continues to gain a mental foothold, Priscilla's body will presumably continue to show traits akin to Raciella, as is happening right now.

    Seems your confusion, again, is simply because of your continued need to use the word "fusion" which implies many things -- for instance, Raciella has a "parasitic fusion ability"? Where do you get that? She, or certainly the rods/Hellcats/etc, can infect their victims and turn them into beasts like Dauf, Beth, or so on.....but fusion? Not exactly the word I would use, because the victims are getting infected....taking over, subverting the victim's consciousness, and so on. Not exactly the kind of thing I would use the dreaded f-word for.

    Another possibility is that Raciella is actually dead and Priscilla is merely getting infected in the 'conventional' way like Beth and Dauf did - it's not like she's showing traits that are necessarily different and her overwhelming power has shown she can resist and expunge the infection from her body as she did with her arm once. I wouldn't say this though because the characters have said their is more then one being 'within' her and this doesn't seem to be the same physical cancerous infection we've seen before.

    One way of looking at it is this -- normally, when a being is infected, the process starts off as physical and turns mentally....the infection spreading through the body, transforming them into a twisted version of their former self before infecting their mind, reducing their consciousness to dust and leaving them an animalistic version of themselves. With Priscilla, the process seems to be backwards, as Raciella is already in her mind and is attempting to take over, and as she does, the process seems to reflect physically by showing traits like the tentacles we normally attach to her.

    Curiously, as we saw with Dauf and Beth, even if their consciousness fades, their basic instincts still remain (protecting and crying for Alicia, shielding Riful)...so even if Raciella succeeds in taking over Priscilla (she certainly seems to have some sort of foothold already), some basic instinctual elements could remain....this may or may not have something to do with why Priscilla is only attacking Awakened Beings. Of course, maybe the victim's consciousness isn't exactly expunged so much as merely locked away as you said....there are alot of details we just don't know or don't realize yet -- if we are too take Priscilla as Yagi's mouthpiece as she was fighting Dauf, then the victim does indeed lose their mind so-to-speak and become an instinctual beast with no free-will of it's own.

    ....And that's pretty much it -- I honestly don't know if I can make my case anymore on this stuff; I've basically done that already in my other posts on this page, though if you have any more questions, I'll try being getting into this more -- good that it seems we're breaking down on the processes of what exactly is going on around here.
    Last edited by Shiek927; November 05, 2012 at 03:20 PM.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  19. #330
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    @GOG
    Riful is making many assumptions here (unless she is a mind reader). She couldn't have been a witness of what happened from the start since first thing she did after Isley's fight ended was going after him. At least her words "I was able to stand before Isley in its immediate aftermath" suggest that. Plus she looked helpless and annoyed after she heard Isley say that after Luciella's defeat no one will be able to stand against Priscilla. If she would already have Raciella then I doubt this would be her reaction.

    Anyway, to me Riful's theory doesn't make sense. Her being able to tell why Rafaela was standing before Luciella or assumption that she accidentally flowed her life into Luciella's corpse has no basis. The same goes for her statement that the stronger Claymore get the stronger they become as ABs. This doesn't make sense when you take into account that a moment earlier she thought that in order to get her hands on a strong AB she would need to awaken a single digit and yet when she parted with Clare and co. she suddenly became an expert on a subject that was completely new to her (half-awakening). This wouldn't even make sense if Jean would suddenly emanate a stronger aura than before since Jean would have to awaken again and Riful would have to compare the old and the new AB form. But since Jean's aura hasn't changed it's busted before it even begins.

    Of course if we would treat Riful as Yagi's mouthpiece that would be another matter but I don't like that since that would be admitting that the plot has almost no consistency or logic.

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