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Thread: Claymore 132 Discussion

  1. #331
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Like I said, it seems we're all basically on the same page -- it just boils down to the details which is where things really get tricky and matter the most. I'm not acting nitpicky for the fun of it, but because that's what speculation often rides off of -- the specific details, wording, and so on which is why translations are such a big deal....so we can get the clearest possible picture of what is going on in the chapter, before we start writing our speculations.

    And besides, this is fun because we're developing our reasonings and having to explain why we feel the way we do, which usually leads to new insights and ideas.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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  3. #332
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member God Eye Galatea's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
    Not really sensing your confusion, though maybe it's a good thing -- we're making head-way into breaking this down, even if it's mostly just semantics.

    I'm not sure though, again, where your exactly trouble is -- 'so which is it'? It's really all of the above....Raciella no longer really exists except as a consciousness within Priscilla, grappling for control of her body -- as she continues to gain a mental foothold, Priscilla's body will presumably continue to show traits akin to Raciella, as is happening right now.

    Seems your confusion, again, is simply because of your continued need to use the word "fusion" which implies many things -- for instance, Raciella has a "parasitic fusion ability"? Where do you get that? She, or certainly the rods/Hellcats/etc, can infect their victims and turn them into beasts like Dauf, Beth, or so on.....but fusion? Not exactly the word I would use, because the victims are getting infected....taking over, subverting the victim's consciousness, and so on. Not exactly the kind of thing I would use the dreaded f-word for.

    Another possibility is that Raciella is actually dead and Priscilla is merely getting infected in the 'conventional' way like Beth and Dauf did - it's not like she's showing traits that are necessarily different and her overwhelming power has shown she can resist and expunge the infection from her body as she did with her arm once. I wouldn't say this though because the characters have said their is more then one being 'within' her and this doesn't seem to be the same physical cancerous infection we've seen before.

    One way of looking at it is this -- normally, when a being is infected, the process starts off as physical and turns mentally....the infection spreading through the body, transforming them into a twisted version of their former self before infecting their mind, reducing their consciousness to dust and leaving them an animalistic version of themselves. With Priscilla, the process seems to be backwards, as Raciella is already in her mind and is attempting to take over, and as she does, the process seems to reflect physically by showing traits like the tentacles we normally attach to her.

    Curiously, as we saw with Dauf and Beth, even if their consciousness fades, their basic instincts still remain (protecting and crying for Alicia, shielding Riful)...so even if Raciella succeeds in taking over Priscilla (she certainly seems to have some sort of foothold already), some basic instinctual elements could remain....this may or may not have something to do with why Priscilla is only attacking Awakened Beings. Of course, maybe the victim's consciousness isn't exactly expunged so much as merely locked away as you said....there are alot of details we just don't know or don't realize yet -- if we are too take Priscilla as Yagi's mouthpiece as she was fighting Dauf, then the victim does indeed lose their mind so-to-speak and become an instinctual beast with no free-will of it's own.

    ....And that's pretty much it -- I honestly don't know if I can make my case anymore on this stuff; I've basically done that already in my other posts on this page, though if you have any more questions, I'll try being getting into this more -- good that it seems we're breaking down on the processes of what exactly is going on around here.
    I'm not confused lol It's just that you are not even considering that in the slightest that the possibility that some kind of fusion or merging happened between Priscilla and the Destroyer.

    Are you seriously even doubting the Destroyer's parasitic fusing ability...?

    Spoiler show


    Spoiler show


    Spoiler show


    Surely, they were "infected" by the Destroyer. But, only an infection could sucked your head into a different bodily mass and use it... Moreover, only an infection could make you use foreign bodily mass as arms... They surely are not fusing here, right? Infection or fusion, at the end, two different bodily masses joined together as one. If it makes you feel better, then the Destroyer have parasitic infecting ability, or parasitic joining masses together ability, or even parasitic putting two different bodily masses together ability, or just simply parasitic fusing (merging) ability...

    I'm not going to be repeating myself again. There are still something you have yet provide responses for that you insisted that only a mind transferring is happening, not a fusion or merging. For instance, why draining life force from the high ranking awaken beings had given the Destroyer a slight advantage? Some characters are sensing clearly two beings, how are they sensing this? As far as I know sensing things from afar would at least involve reading the yoki, if that's the case, then the Destroyer Priscilla is probably giving off two different yoki signature, if the Destroyer is only in the mind, then where is this other yoki signature from?



    @Goral

    It wasn't my main focus of what I was talking about. I don't want to open another can of worms. lol So let's just agree to disagree on this.

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  5. #333
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    I'm not confused lol It's just that you are not even considering that in the slightest that the possibility that some kind of fusion or merging happened between Priscilla and the Destroyer.
    Maybe I'm simply not understanding what you're trying to say then.

    As before, it probably just boils down to semantics and our choice of words, which I'm trying to, for my part, watch carefully. As before though, in the grand scheme of things, we're on the same page.

    Quote Quote:
    Are you seriously even doubting the Destroyer's parasitic fusing ability...?
    What I'm doubting is your choice of words - you don't need to keep posting pictures, I get what you are referring too - I simply disagree with the way you are labeling it.

    Quote Quote:
    I'm not going to be repeating myself again. There are still something you have yet provide responses for that you insisted that only a mind transferring is happening, not a fusion or merging.
    If you are asking me here 'why' I think the way I do, I've already made my case in those two giant posts I went into.

    Quote Quote:
    For instance, why draining life force from the high ranking awaken beings had given the Destroyer a slight advantage?
    I'm not sure what that has to do with anything about this, but if you are asking what is the use in such an ability, well, plenty -- an ability like that which can absorb strength from opponents would be very useful, to say the least, especially if it's against a stronger opponent. According to Deneve who is most likely speaking for Yagi (>_<), the one with 'greater power' will win....obviously that can anything, but Priscilla was indeed able to forcibly expunge her infection from her body when a rod went threw her arm...as nothing more then a consciousness within her, Raciella's goal seems to be absorbing as much strength as possible in order to have the greatest foothold possible in order to trump Priscilla and take over her body.

    Which probably explains everything and why Priscilla is going after only Awakened Beings -- Raciella is trying to direct Priscilla to, instead of wimpy human beings, to beings with more power like the Awakened Beings and (supposedly summoning) and Cassandra/Riful perhaps as well...so Raciella will have enough strength to forcibly take over her body completely. That's my idea anyway and what Chronos and Dr.Deneve seems to be explaining to us.

    That's a bit, well, interesting -- that gives the impression that Priscilla herself wouldn't benefit from the absorbed strength even though it's her body...somehow Raciella has gained enough of a foothold to direct Priscilla (or her body) where it wants to go, and gains strength by absorbing those around. I wouldn't be surprised though if it DID backfire and Priscilla also started powering up since, again, it's one body after all.

    Quote Quote:
    Some characters are sensing clearly two beings, how are they sensing this? As far as I know sensing things from afar would at least involve reading the yoki, if that's the case, then the Destroyer Priscilla is probably giving off two different yoki signature, if the Destroyer is only in the mind, then where is this other yoki signature from?
    I'd like to point out that, curiously, nothing suggest this....Chronos and the Ghosts seem to have caught on to what's going on simply through watching -- nobody has sensed anything, yoki-wise, that their is more then one being within Priscilla, which sort of makes sense....if Raciella has abandoned her body and become nothing more then an independent consciousness, then she simply can't have any sort of yoki.

    I wouldn't be surprised though, if Raciella gains more (or total) control, Priscilla's yoki-signature will change into Raciella's.
    Last edited by Shiek927; November 05, 2012 at 05:12 PM.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  6. #334
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    May I ask something?

    If Priscilla win the inner battle will she inherit destroyer's traits as well ( life sucking ) or no?
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  7. #335
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    May I ask something?

    If Priscilla win the inner battle will she inherit destroyer's traits as well ( life sucking ) or no?
    I'm guessing you are not reading the debate going on .

    Pulled from my post on the last page:

    Quote Quote:
    If Priscilla succeeds in winning, will she have new Raciella-abilities? Probably not...if she drives Raciella from her mind, then that's the end of that - it's her body after all so she has less to "gain" from this experience. It's quite possible she may learn and pick up a few new tricks however regardless, but I doubt it. I call this akin to Rafaela attempting to take over Claire and Claire wins out....Claire may have learned a few things from her brief mental struggle with Rafaela, but largely, she will be the same as before as this was not a peaceful transfer but a mental battle -- Claire/Priscilla want Rafaela/Raciella out, so they aren't trying to learn something new, even if they end up doing so.
    Of course, that's just my current viewpoint anyway.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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  9. #336
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    I read some parts, but me eyes hurt when reading wall of text on monitor for longer than five minutes
    Thank you for your answer. But there is one inor thing there - Clare returned normal to this world and Priscilla will have destroyer's body in her own after she won the mental battle ( if she won it at all ). In a way that looks similar to Clare taking Teresa's flesh inside her body, wouldn't Priscilla than inherit destroyers abilities just like Clare inherited Teresa's sense ability? ( I mean, no matter if the body is brain dead - it still posses some capabilities it had when the person using it was alive. So if some new user learn how to use that body's special powers [ like in this case Priscilla use life sucking ability that destroyer body posses ] shouldn't that be possible? )
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  10. #337
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    May I ask something?

    If Priscilla win the inner battle will she inherit destroyer's traits as well ( life sucking ) or no?
    That's is how I see it. Priscilla and the Destroyer are fighting over who has control of the physical body. But the priscilla now has shown that she has absorbtion abilities that she must have gotten when the destroyer and priscilla "fused" So she already has the ability in her body. If she defeats the destroyer mentally I don't see why she wouldn't still have that power. My view on it is that they are fused together.
    Like in DBZ, Fu..... Sion..... HA!!!!
    Last edited by Claymore1; November 05, 2012 at 05:30 PM.

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  12. #338
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Nixl's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Just skimmed the translation, is Cronus implying that Priscilla is moving towards Raki? Or, that Raki is the reason she did not massacre the ABs? How Cronus connected Raki to the events is still fuzzy to me.

    One thing, if Priscilla can possess characters that have traces of her flesh/youki, would that make Raki a potential victim of the mind-control? I get the sense that Yagi was foreshadowing something in that scene. I do not know what, but I just do not see how the scene served an informative or sentimental function judging by Raki's response.

    What other purpose would the scene serve?
    Last edited by Nixl; November 05, 2012 at 07:16 PM.

  13. #339
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
    Just skimmed the translation, is Cronus implying that Priscilla is moving towards Raki? Or, that Raki is the reason she did not massacre the ABs? How Cronus connected Raki to the events is still fuzzy to me.
    Thew logic is simple, Chronos deducted that there was a reason why Priscilla decided to harm them instead of Ghost who were 5 meters from them and Humans from Rabona who are potential food source for her.
    When he took all things into equation Raki is one big X in it, and that's how he concluded that he have something to do with this situation.

    Quote Quote:
    One thing, if Priscilla can possess characters that have traces of her flesh/youki, would that make Raki a potential victim of the mind-control? I get the sense that Yagi was foreshadowing something in that scene. I do not know what, but I just do not see how the scene served an informative or sentimental function judging by Raki's response.
    I don't think that Priscilla can mind control ordinary Humans, because ordinary Humans lack yoki ( I assume that is the case when we are talking about this kind of things ). The scene was probably to give us something to shake our heads in meantime while we are waiting to see what will happened in the near future, like Goral said: Yagi will probably go toward anime ending - Raki will probably beg Clare not to kill her.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  14. #340
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
    Just skimmed the translation, is Cronus implying that Priscilla is moving towards Raki? Or, that Raki is the reason she did not massacre the ABs? How Cronus connected Raki to the events is still fuzzy to me.

    One thing, if Priscilla can possess characters that have traces of her flesh/youki, would that make Raki a potential victim of the mind-control? I get the sense that Yagi was foreshadowing something in that scene. I do not know what, but I just do not see how the scene served an informative or sentimental function judging by Raki's response.

    What other purpose would the scene serve?
    Chronos was saying that Raki was the reason that Priscilla was targeting the Awakened Beings - he's not a victim.

    I don't see though where you feel that Priscilla can possess characters that have traces of her; where do you get this? It's not like she, say, has been manipulated Raki in any way...if anything, he seems to still be an ordinary human despite all the drama he's been through.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  15. #341
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Nixl's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    It is not so much the translation explicitly said what I am insinuating. I am definitely reading in between the lines (assuming there is anything to read). In my opinion, the scene either foreshadowed something or fell completely flat on its face. I would assume the former (optimism?). I just do not see what the purpose was for the scene. Raki just poker faced it, so I do not think it had any informative or sentimental value.

    As for the arm shenanigans, Raki certainly does not have youki, but he is one of four characters that had a piece of Priscilla inside him. One of those other characters are speeding (well..slow as fuck) mindlessly to end of the plot. As to why I think traces of Priscilla counts, is because there must be some method to the madness. Otherwise, Priscilla has gone Sith Lord on us.

    Essentially, I am trying to string something together, since I refuse to believe that scene contained NO foreshadowing. If it didn't, then Raki is poker face champion.

    Chronus: How about vital information about the man that raised you!
    Raki: *poker face*
    Chronus: Okay-okay, how about you've known about the big bad's identity this entire time?
    Raki: *poker face*
    Chronus: Okay...I. Am. Your. Father. (Disney property, do not steal)
    Raki: *poker face*

    It couldn't have been a "big reveal" since Chronus said nothing that Raki did not already know. In fact, Lars showed more surprise in the scene.

    edit: Off-topic

    Disney owns Star Wars. Holy shit.
    Last edited by Nixl; November 05, 2012 at 08:36 PM.

  16. #342
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    Raki will probably beg Clare not to kill her.
    I don't think that will happen. Priscilla is so ridiculously overpowered, I really don't know how Clare will kill her. And Raki is an adult now, he is smart enough to know that Priscilla is too dangerous to keep alive.

    Quote Quote:
    Disney owns Star Wars. Holy shit.
    I know. Disney is a very large, and very powerful corporation. They own a lot of things. I just hope they don't ruin it.
    Last edited by Claymore1; November 05, 2012 at 08:40 PM.

  17. #343
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Whether or not Priscilla receives a permanent power-up is a moot point since she's already the undisputed most powerful living entity on the Claymore continent/island/wtf-ever you want to call it. Don't get me wrong... it's been a long time since I've seen so many walls of text in a Claymore forum, so from that standpoint it's rather refreshing to see - but I don't see any reason to make such a fuss over something that, in the end, doesn't make any significant difference whatsoever.

    Hmm, Disney owns Muppets. Disney owns Star Wars. Does that mean we'll be seeing more Muppets in Space?

  18. #344
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    edit: Off-topic

    Disney owns Star Wars. Holy shit.
    Spoiler: off-topic show


    ---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

    Quote Quote:
    Whether or not Priscilla receives a permanent power-up is a moot point since she's already the undisputed most powerful living entity on the Claymore continent/island/wtf-ever you want to call it. Don't get me wrong... it's been a long time since I've seen so many walls of text in a Claymore forum, so from that standpoint it's rather refreshing to see - but I don't see any reason to make such a fuss over something that, in the end, doesn't make any significant difference whatsoever.
    It's much more then that -- it's about breaking down and trying to make sense of what exactly is going on with Priscilla; the power-up thing is a part of that.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  19. #345
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member God Eye Galatea's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 132 Discussions/ 133 Predictions

    @ Shiek

    The whole issue is that you are giving the impression that the fusion or merging between the Destroyer and Priscilla is baseless as there is nothing to support this unfounded assumption, essentially it is saying that people are making up stuffs as they go... Now, it's more of an issue with semantics and the labels...

    Your whole argument started with (my points are in italic):
    • There is only a mind transferring between the Destroyer and Priscilla, purely a mental struggle for control over only Priscilla's body, no physical fusion or merging or whatsoever. However, chapter 128 shown that Priscilla was physically fused with the blob (as you believed the Destroyer's body was reduced to the blob). The Destroyer Priscilla had display the power that the Destroyer had. Draining external powers from the awaken beings into the Destroyer Priscilla actually given the Destroyer a slight advantage. Some characters have sensed that there are two beings battling internally for control. The Destroyer had previously displayed power of fusing or infecting for your liking.
    • On the tentacles life draining power; the Destroyer was able to use Priscilla's body for style of power as its prefer if it indeed succeeds in conquering her body. But, that could only happen after the Destroyer gained control. Then, oh, the Destroyer must have some level authority already in Priscilla's body, as it gains more control it could use more of its attacks, (but then essentially it would transforms Priscilla into the Destroyer). The issue here is Priscilla and the Destroyer are explicitly stated to be at a deadlock. So even in a mental deadlock, the Destroyer was able to transforms parts of Priscilla's body to create its own style of attacks and use its life draining power to drain external powers from the high ranking awaken beings into only Priscilla's body to give itself a slightest advantage while the Destroyer itself is still only remained in Priscilla's infected consciousness. That doesn't really make sense...
    • Nothing suggested that other characters could tell within the Destroyer Priscilla's body are two beings battling for control through sensing anything yoki-wise, they could have caught on what happened through simply watching. If they could tell all that with simple observation, then it would only make sense if Chronos already knew of Priscilla's and Destroyer's powers beforehand, and seeing Priscilla using Destroyer's power he could have deduced that, but that's unlikely. Moreover, unless Tabitha has a telescope attached with a mind reader, I don't see how she was able to tell from a distance that the two beings within a joined (fused) body are still battling for control and still in a deadlock. From what we know, it is only a logical deduction that sensing accurately anything from a distance outside the clear field of vision of the character involves at least some kind of yoki sensing, especially in this case where the issue involve a internal struggle between two beings.
    • Regarding the Destroyer's parasitic fusing power or for your liking, parasitic infecting power, you admitted that Beth and Dauf were infected, and infection is normally started off as physical, then mentally which was what happened with Beth and Dauf. But, now suddenly the Destroyer is doing a 180 degree of its own power and infected Priscilla's consciousness first, then transforming the host's body to its liking. (IMO, this assumption is even more troublesome, it is basically making the Destroyer unstoppable as it could have invaded anyone's consciousness and then just physically transforming the host into the Destroyer.) Priscilla had shown to have greater power to resist the effects of the rods before. However, the rods were only from the hellcats which were only fragments of the Destroyer. In addition, with Clare's help (wills) the Destroyer's power and body was able to seal Priscilla and merged them all together into a blob. No one can say for sure that Priscilla could resist the "infection" from the Destroyer's main body, but then again Priscilla is indeed more or less "infected" now. Then of course, if you have admitted that the Destroyer's parasitic "infecting" power truly work first physically and then mentally, you are rendering you own initial argument of purely mental struggle void. Infection or fusion or not, what the Destroyer did to Beth and Dauf is essentially joining two different bodily masses together as one. If this could not be label as fused, fusion, merged, or merging, then I'm really lost for words.

    I can understand where you are coming from and it is all possible, but I believe the information we have is stating otherwise. You can't really deny that there is at least some physical aspects of the Destroyer fused, merged, joined, absorbed, infected, transferred, or whatever label into Priscilla to explain what is happening now.

    I feel that you are very much hung up on your definition of fusion or merging as you are bothered by the aftermath like power-ups that usually accompany with these labels. Where as I view that fusion as a just process of two or more things joining together as one or forming a single entity. Of course, every fusion process is unique and different, as it depends on what two things are joined together and under what circumstances, and the resulting single entity would surely be affected. Therefore, there are so many possibility for this newly single entity from a fusion, it could be a new being, or it could be a being control by dominant side of the two things from the fusion, and so on. Thus, as much as there is possibility for power-up, there is also possibility that suppressed side could just become dormant and nothing really changes.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    May I ask something?

    If Priscilla win the inner battle will she inherit destroyer's traits as well ( life sucking ) or no?
    It is quite a possibility that this could happened, as it is probably one of the reason why Miria strongly insisted on bringing Cassandra back to her senses first to prevent a winning side from emerging from the internal struggle between the Destroyer and Priscilla.


    Off-Topic
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
    Disney owns Star Wars. Holy shit.
    So, we can expect them to break into songs and dancing throughout the movie now!? lol
    Last edited by God Eye Galatea; November 06, 2012 at 01:45 AM.

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