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View Poll Results: Who will win?

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  • Echizen Ryoma

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  • Oni Juujirou

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Thread: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

  1. #1
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    [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou



    Singles 1Echizen RyomaOni Juujirou
    TitleSuper Rookie of the EastGatekeeper of Hell
    SchoolSeishun Gakuen 1st YearHigh School 3rd Year
    Height151 cm187 cm
    Weight50 kg83 kg
    Dominant HandLeftRight
    PlaystyleAll RounderAggressive Baseliner
    TechniquesTwist Serve
    Drive A
    Drive B
    COOL Drive
    Drive D
    Muga no Kyouchi
    Black Jack Knife

    Serve order: Oni -> Echizen


    This round ends on Tuesday, October 9th 8 PM GMT.


    Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!
    Last edited by Kaoz; October 07, 2012 at 02:59 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Konomi actually changed the Kaji versus Oni game in volume 8 (I think? could be 7) from just 'sort of close' to 'total blowout' and Kaji saying Oni went to a level above Black Jack Knife.

    If you assume Black Jack Knife is equilvaent to 10-ball that means Oni has another level above that so I'll give the edge to Oni for now. Ryoma wins if not taking the revised information in mind, as Oni has yet to shown any power above the Black Jack Knife level in the serials.

  3. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    I'm going with Ryoma. I'm pretty almost 100% sure Ryoma is going to challenged someone higher than 5th rank, and he will win. So I don't see Oni winning this.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    How is Ryoma going to return BJK? "Ten'imuhou no Kiwami cannot be used by any character"

    Oni destroys Ryoma's wrists and wins this by default.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    I know it's tough on you jose...imagine me
    fapfapfap


  5. #5
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member TheShiraishi's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Wait, all doors of Muga are not allowed? I thought it was just Ten'imuhou no Kiwami. A controlled Hyaku Ren Jitoku no Kiwami is very deadly, as we saw VS Yukimura (before Echizen got Yipped)

    I guess this also opens up the discussion of the limits of Hyaku Ren Jitoku no Kiwami. Can you easily return such a high power technique like BJK (Tomahawk is anime only but is probably the next level of BJK) or 108th Hadouyukuu? Chitose nullified the effects by hitting weak shots, so could you nullify the effects by hitting super powerful ones?

    Any explanation or answer is appreciated.

  6. #6
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    If you assume Black Jack Knife is equilvaent to 10-ball that means Oni has another level above that so I'll give the edge to Oni for now.
    Impossible. This can't be possible.
    Kintaro effortlessly returned this, and blew away Oni's gimmick racket in one return.
    Back then, Kintaro couldn't even hit 5 at a time. BJK isn't something to overrate. It's also Momoshiro's technique now lol.

    ---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShiraishi View Post
    Wait, all doors of Muga are not allowed? I thought it was just Ten'imuhou no Kiwami. A controlled Hyaku Ren Jitoku no Kiwami is very deadly, as we saw VS Yukimura (before Echizen got Yipped)

    I guess this also opens up the discussion of the limits of Hyaku Ren Jitoku no Kiwami. Can you easily return such a high power technique like BJK (Tomahawk is anime only but is probably the next level of BJK) or 108th Hadouyukuu? Chitose nullified the effects by hitting weak shots, so could you nullify the effects by hitting super powerful ones?

    Any explanation or answer is appreciated.
    Hmm... I reckon Muga is allowed excluding TnK. Not sure.

  7. #7
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Impossible. This can't be possible.
    Kintaro effortlessly returned this, and blew away Oni's gimmick racket in one return.
    Back then, Kintaro couldn't even hit 5 at a time. BJK isn't something to overrate. It's also Momoshiro's technique now lol.
    Um Kintaro's uber long name move is described as 'more powerful than Hado 108' so the fact that he can return Black Jack Knife doesn't really say much because its base power is greater than Hado 108. Black Jack Knife is just a normal move Oni can use over and over again, so if you need to use an uber move to return it then Oni still has the advantage in the long run.

    Black Jack Knife is likely just a normal move for a 10 baller. Like I said that's why in the volumes Konomi revised Oni's power by having Kaji saying Oni has a level above BJK (and I guess it also implies he can return BJK, so you don't wonder what was he doing in the team). Oni with whatever his BJK+ move has to be favored over Ryoma who only shows standard 10-ball level. But using only the serial in mind, BJK looks too simple of a move for a 10-baller so Ryoma has the edge. That's probably why Oni got upgraded between the serials and the volumes.

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Momoshiro used it. Are you saying he is a 10baller?
    Oni's ten ball move is likely what he used to dispatch Kaji.

    So like I said. BJK can't be a move specifically for a 10baller.

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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Momoshiro used it. Are you saying he is a 10baller?
    Oni's ten ball move is likely what he used to dispatch Kaji.

    So like I said. BJK can't be a move specifically for a 10baller.
    It's clear that the same move used by different guys have different results as a function of their base stats. Momoshiro is not a 10 baller but he can still use a move that a 10 baller can, with lesser effect. Given Oni is obviously much stronger than Momoshiro it's safe to assume no one in the G11-G20 can return that. I consider that to be an appropriate power level for a 10-baller.

    But then since I'm pretty sure any 10-baller can crush a G11-20 without using any special moves, this means BJK is likely a weak move at the 10-baller tier.

    So given the serialized information I'd say Ryoma is stronger. The revised Kaji vs Oni game significantly boosted Oni's power. Before it looked like Kaji was just random court 3 level guy they grabbed to fill Oni's spot, but in the volume it's implied he can return BJK (he lost to a BJK+ level attack) and yet Oni still totally crushed him.

    It should be pretty clear Oni is one of the major characters in NPOT. He told Duke to only use 60% against a middle schooler, which implies he thinks 60% of his power is sufficient even though Duke believes using 60% of his full power might result in him losing the game. That said he really hasn't done anything really impressive so far, which is why he supposed to have an upgrade in the volumes. I don't have the latest volume so I can't say for sure, but the scans looks legit.

  10. #10
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Konomi actually changed the Kaji versus Oni game in volume 8 (I think? could be 7) from just 'sort of close' to 'total blowout' and Kaji saying Oni went to a level above Black Jack Knife.
    Just wanted to confirm this, here's the page.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShiraishi View Post
    Wait, all doors of Muga are not allowed? I thought it was just Ten'imuhou no Kiwami. A controlled Hyaku Ren Jitoku no Kiwami is very deadly, as we saw VS Yukimura (before Echizen got Yipped)
    Muga, Hyakuren and Saiki are technically allowed (if you want to compare, they were on Tezuka's ability list). The reason why I didn't include them for Ryoma is that I personally believe he can't use them anymore and his PP profile hasn't listed them. You're free to argue about them though.

  11. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Ryoma wins this. I see him perfectly returning BJK and using Hyakuren to deal with Oni's upgrade. Still ryoma has to show more from mountain training, Konomi is waiting for him to play and give him a really strong upgrade. So yeah, assuming that he'll face a rank lower than No.5 and win automatically he is above Oni. Ryoma has amazing technique and will counter Oni's special moves,also muga and the fiirst two doors will make him win.

  12. #12
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    To those who think Ryoma can't return BJK, Kintarou comfortably return it BEFORE mountain training. Echizen surely have enough technique to return it. And Serious Oni is something we haven't seen yet, so I don't know if you want to take that into consideration. Even if you were, you also should take the hype Ryoma have into consideration too. I really don't see Ryoma losing this, at all.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  13. #13
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    To those who think Ryoma can't return BJK, Kintarou comfortably return it BEFORE mountain training. Echizen surely have enough technique to return it. And Serious Oni is something we haven't seen yet, so I don't know if you want to take that into consideration. Even if you were, you also should take the hype Ryoma have into consideration too. I really don't see Ryoma losing this, at all.
    Kintarou has a caveman's strenght, I think Ryoma hasn't.

    He wasn't even able to return Big Bang in the Nationals, you think he'll be able to return BJK?
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    I know it's tough on you jose...imagine me
    fapfapfap


  14. #14
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Muga no Kyouchi! ryoma! he saw ryoga return G10 #1 's Byoudin's super power glowing tennis ball

    MAJOR EDIT: in ryoma's techniques box is missing MUGA NO kyouchi k, Hyrakuren, and 2nd door to muga?

    so they are banned?

    ---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

    10 baller is a person who is fast enough to hit 10 balls. no where does it state black jack kniefe is dependent on hitting speed and accuracy of a player.

  15. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: [Round 2 - Team 4 vs Team 6 Singles 1] Echizen Ryoma vs Oni Juujirou

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    Kintarou has a caveman's strenght, I think Ryoma hasn't.

    He wasn't even able to return Big Bang in the Nationals, you think he'll be able to return BJK?
    Techniques can substitute strength. And Ryoma tech has grown considerably ever since then. I don't think Big Bang will be a problem anymore.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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