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View Poll Results: True peace

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  • Naruto's option

    7 21.88%
  • Madara's option

    6 18.75%
  • Nagato's option

    2 6.25%
  • The world is doomed

    11 34.38%
  • My option ( specify in the thread )

    6 18.75%
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Thread: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

  1. #16
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Quote Originally Posted by Rarhyx View Post
    Well, tbh I don't like to have a fight with my sister. I like it more when we two are on the same wavelenght. Same for my friends.
    Without war you can also improve technology, with war it's just faster. (Einstein developed the nuclear bomb because he was told, the enemys had them already and they needed it also(which wasn't true ofc))
    I don't need hatred. I need love for/from my family and friends.
    We are talking about biiiig societies, not about single people. I don't like arguing with my friend also, but that has nothing to do with wars.

    Even your damn microwave is result of research on sending fast information with microwaves. Scientist's snack melted. Nuclear facilities are using something that was discovered during WW2.

    Yup, you don't, society do. If the war in Iraq stopped, Muslim fundamentalists would start attacking innocent people, because America had to check if their new weapons are effective! Once started it can never be stopped. We need to feel superior. We like to think "Damn, that terrorists attacked again, they're some psychos" But polish were terrorists during WW2, Chechens are terrorists for Russia and for America Al-Kaeda are terrorists. But it sounds right, and make people shit in their pants, that's what counts! If all war stopped there'll be complete anarchy. Our need for superiority wouldn't let us leave other people alone. We can hold grudge about something for tens of years, but we can't hold grudge to that single woman. That's why society and single people are so different.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brill's Avatar
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Basically the world is doomed! Why? Because the cycle of hate is a symptom of the disease and not the disease itself. The real culprit is greed. Greed is the primary culprit of all wars. Madara's war maybe a war of ideals, it's still unclear, but the ninja world is based on a world of greed. They have what I don't so I'll take it. During the war pain, sacrifice, and hate are generated in the process, but they aren't the root cause. So Love and Peace and mutual understanding are swell and dandy but they won't remove the threat of war. Naruto is hunted because of what the Kyuubi can do, not because the Kyuubi ravaged all the 5 nations and justice is going to be extracted.

    So will Naruto's plan work? It will work in Kishi's world because Kishi'll make it work. However, even if you remove the bijuus the nations will find other things to seize and the process starts all over again. It's a pipe dream, nothing more.

    Nagato's plan to control through fear? The problem with oppression is that you often go too far and the tide will break against you. All tyrannies fall it's just a matter of when, Nagato himseld admits it. It's like putting a poisoned bandage onto someone who is hemmoraging blood. The poison is going to kill the patient before the loss of the blood, so it's only a matter of time before the patient rips it off again. The patient is still screwed.

    The only one that really address the disease is Madara's plan. If you give people what they want then they have no reason to be envious or jealous. It only costs you your free will. To many that may be too high a price but it solves the problem. But many Western societies value free will over order. Yet this is a Japanese story. They may look at it the opposite way. Several manga stories have these global mind-controliing scenarios. They always fail but you have to wonder why this theme keeps occuring in mangas. Food for thought.

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  4. #18
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    greed and hatred are something to fill emptiness inside.
    if this emptiness is filled by love from your parents and friends, you would feel happy and satisfied.
    like if you want jinchuuriki to stay sane, and not drift to dark side, you have to fill container with love.

  5. #19
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    We can clearly see that MH would not make a good philosophy board my eyes started to bleed after reading some comments

    Now to answer the OP,
    naruto's idea is way too childish
    madara's way too selfish
    nagato's way too brutal
    True "narutoish" peace can be achieved by allying all the major villages and creating a shinobi country, we already know that all the conflict is caused between different tribes/villages ... You will always have criminals and thugs of course, but you will not have real wars
    THE UCHIHA LOGIC:
    "brother follows hiw on path? destroy konoha " uchiha sasuke
    "the village wants you not to interfere with politics? coup-d'etat" uchiha fugaku
    "coup-d'etat on the way? obliterate entire clan" uchiha itachi
    "clan wants to make peace? destroy everyone everywhere" uchiha madara
    "10 years old crush dead?infinite tsukyumi" uchiha obito



  6. #20
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    There is NO solution... Its NEVER going to be. Just like in real life. Even asuming the great powers join up to form 1 big country the Earth itself is way bigger then the area where Naruto's story takes place. You can also have the Uchiha event when some people in this new, great land would not be ok with what they get. Rebelions and other things are also possible.

    @Uchiha_Blood

    Even if you remove ninjutsu and you still have the curent system. The only diference is that people would use diferent weapons. RK did not create the curent ninja system, only the weapons they are using. Of course the world would be diferent with no ninjutsu BUT ninjutsu is not needed for the curent system. RK message was of PEACE. The world refused his message and used his teachings as a weapon.

    Its like asuming in the future (Naruto world) X dude invents nuclear fusion like we have now to power the world but then people take that and turn it into a weapon. If they would not have nuclear fusion to nuke one another i am sure they would find something else... Its human nature.

    Stating "War and hate was ironically generated thanks to Rikudou Sennin" Is more then absurd. War and hate existed before and it will exist with or with no RK. We don't have Ninjutsu.. Do we have war and hate? Sure we do. The only diferences come in flavours. No ninjutsu, shoot bows, use catapults and so on. Killing a man with a fireball or with a katana is the same thing. Hate is generated. No need for ninjutsu for it.

    Quote Quote:
    Thus the idea of peace can be summed up with this 3 one-liners:
    Naruto: peace through mutual understanding
    Madara: peace through absolute control
    Nagato: peace through forced understanding
    Somehow this sounds like the Mass Effect endings. Can you add some color to it? Let's say first is red, other blue lol.
    Last edited by xXan; October 11, 2012 at 09:10 AM.

  7. #21
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Quote Originally Posted by pera2 View Post
    greed and hatred are something to fill emptiness inside.
    if this emptiness is filled by love from your parents and friends, you would feel happy and satisfied.
    like if you want jinchuuriki to stay sane, and not drift to dark side, you have to fill container with love.
    Sooo optimistic. World is fucked up, your happiness doesn't concern anyone. We're talking about whole countries.

  8. #22
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Somehow this sounds like the Mass Effect endings. Can you add some color to it? Let's say first is red, other blue lol.
    Don't mention Mass Effect and ending ever again.
    I loathe how the third ended

  9. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brill's Avatar
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Don't mention Mass Effect and ending ever again.
    I loathe how the third ended
    Really? I thought the third ending was excellent and exactly in-synch with the themes and the main story overall. Kishi has focused on the symptoms of war and equated them with cause which is inaccurate. Kishi is still properly on theme but his premise is wrong, so Naruto will "solve" the effects of war but not the root cause. So it's a naive solution to a very complex problem but it will work for manga geard at teenagers.

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  11. #24
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Quote Originally Posted by Brill View Post
    Really? I thought the third ending was excellent and exactly in-synch with the themes and the main story overall. Kishi has focused on the symptoms of war and equated them with cause which is inaccurate. Kishi is still properly on theme but his premise is wrong, so Naruto will "solve" the effects of war but not the root cause. So it's a naive solution to a very complex problem but it will work for manga geard at teenagers.
    So em, what was your favorite color? Who cares about the decision we had trough the game? Let's give the player a choice of piking the favorite color!

    It suked because the game should really take note about what you had. Random example.
    If you have the Geth they are showed swarming the reapers, if you have the Krogan they are showed going insane on the ground and attacking Reapers and what not.
    Problem is you have 3(4 with the DLC) ending and it did NOT matter what you did to get there. Just get some galactic power (whatever the name was) and do some multiplayer and then you can chose what color you whant. All the small decision we made to that point should decide the ending, not pick your color BS. All the things we had should be showed in that last moment. A climatic battle to save the galaxy.

    No man i wanted my decisions to be showed in the ending. Thing is everybody had to pick 1 of 3 color endings... What i hated the most is that i did not had an options to say F*** off you bastard and then shoot the AI kid in the head (you could do something like this with the DLC but you did not had the chanse to win the fight so FU BW) and if you have enough galactic power you can win IT, like really WIN it. Beat down the bloody Reapers.

    Then a huge cinematic with all the people you found/warr assests doing the best they can do to win that fight. F*** stupid color ending. They tried to fix it with the DLC but it already left a really bad taste in my mouth. If this was the random X game then ok, sure. The ending was not that bad... But considering this was MASS EFFECT... The ending was HORIBLE.

    Like i said before... 5 years where ruined in 5 minutes... I finished the game and never looked back... A shame to as i was planing on finishing it multiple times to see the diference from my choices... But then those where "pick your favorite color" BS....

    @OP sry for the off topic...
    Last edited by xXan; October 12, 2012 at 01:58 AM.

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  13. #25
    MH's Most High Quality Poster 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member earthforge's Avatar
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    You just had to invoke Mass Effect 3. Lol.

    In the constraints of the Narutoverse, from what we've seen, I kinda don't have a problem with Madara's plan. I don't think anyone would notice, since I presume everyone's greedier impulses are put in suspend. However, Madara's plan is error intolerant - if just one person isn't caught or he catches a cold or something, his perfect world goes to ruins.

    Nagato's plan was cute and all, but it was a direct rule by terror. Intolerant to human weaknesses - he can't exactly proclaim to understand everyone and judge them.

    Naruto's plan fails for the same reason - intolerance to human weaknesses. People fail all the time and people don't want to change. Obito, Madara and Sasuke are all so far gone it's impossible. Madara's kinda a living ghost and is stuck in time. Sasuke just wants to invoke his hatred on the world. Obito is desperate to return the world to the way it should've been for him.

    I am kinda sad that by the nature of Naruto being a shounen manga, the adage "old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" will be overturned.
    Avatar © Chelsea Gordon, author of Not Quite Normal.

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  15. #26
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    @earthforge
    Quote Quote:
    if just one person isn't caught or he catches a cold or something
    The first part is probably imposible. Its going to genjutsu the entire planet somehow. The second? How is a cold even going to happen? In the new reality that they are going to create even the dead people are going to be brought back to life.

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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Quote Originally Posted by Brill View Post
    Really? I thought the third ending was excellent and exactly in-synch with the themes and the main story overall. Kishi has focused on the symptoms of war and equated them with cause which is inaccurate. Kishi is still properly on theme but his premise is wrong, so Naruto will "solve" the effects of war but not the root cause. So it's a naive solution to a very complex problem but it will work for manga geard at teenagers.
    xXan explained a lot on what I found disappointing about the ending, if I had to elaborate on it I would make a giant wall of text

    I loved all three games to death, and then bam!

    On topic, I wholeheartly agree with you, Naruto's peace, even though it will work since he's the main characters, still can't be the answer to a real peace:
    the moment a foe like Madara will rise and win over the bad guy, the cycle would start again

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @OP sry for the off topic...
    It had to be done good sir

    Quote Originally Posted by earthforge View Post
    You just had to invoke Mass Effect 3. Lol.

    In the constraints of the Narutoverse, from what we've seen, I kinda don't have a problem with Madara's plan. I don't think anyone would notice, since I presume everyone's greedier impulses are put in suspend. However, Madara's plan is error intolerant - if just one person isn't caught or he catches a cold or something, his perfect world goes to ruins.

    Nagato's plan was cute and all, but it was a direct rule by terror. Intolerant to human weaknesses - he can't exactly proclaim to understand everyone and judge them.

    Naruto's plan fails for the same reason - intolerance to human weaknesses. People fail all the time and people don't want to change. Obito, Madara and Sasuke are all so far gone it's impossible. Madara's kinda a living ghost and is stuck in time. Sasuke just wants to invoke his hatred on the world. Obito is desperate to return the world to the way it should've been for him.

    I am kinda sad that by the nature of Naruto being a shounen manga, the adage "old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" will be overturned.
    Pretty good insight, props.

    While I too believe Madara's plan to be the best course of action, I still don't understand how it will truly work:
    in Negima ( Kishi pretty much copied the whole concept of Infinite Tsukuyomi from there ) people would just sleep, enclosed in their dreams. But that was a magic world and whatever, where time could be put on hold.
    In Naruto time would go by, meaning that, if they are put to sleep, that humanity will cease the moment they would grow old and die.
    And if they live their life physically, how can they experience the ones that are dead coming back to life?

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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    if it works like kotoamaterasu, it could give order to everyone: ""be nice to each other or something so they wouldnt be in a dream, but would have commanded behavior, like Itachi was planing to make Sasuke protect Konoha!

  18. #29
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rarhyx's Avatar
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Quote Originally Posted by pera2 View Post
    if it works like kotoamaterasu, it could give order to everyone: ""be nice to each other or something so they wouldnt be in a dream, but would have commanded behavior, like Itachi was planing to make Sasuke protect Konoha!
    lol. after I read that somehow I think infinite Kotoamatsukami will actually be the solution in Naruto xD
    When scum rules the world only more scum are born...

  19. #30
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    Re: The true solution for peace in the Narutoverse

    Peace is nothing but an illusionary concept. Even in our own lives, peace is momentary, it is never transient. Naruto's idea of peace is extremely far fetched and unrealistic. Humans by nature are greedy, prone to deceit, and have innate quality to draw pleasure out of others misery just because of feelings of superiority. If one is to achieve ultimate peace - or semblance it it - then one has to completely eliminate the concept of country, religion, and creed. Once a state of equality is achieved. there won't be any need for superiority as all would be deemed equal based on non-existence of boundaries, creed labels, and religious intolerance.

    I voted for Madara. I may not agree with his stance, but his views on peace are very real and thought provoking.

    ---------- Post added at 12:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    We are talking about biiiig societies, not about single people. I don't like arguing with my friend also, but that has nothing to do with wars.

    Even your damn microwave is result of research on sending fast information with microwaves. Scientist's snack melted. Nuclear facilities are using something that was discovered during WW2.

    Yup, you don't, society do. If the war in Iraq stopped, Muslim fundamentalists would start attacking innocent people, because America had to check if their new weapons are effective! Once started it can never be stopped. We need to feel superior. We like to think "Damn, that terrorists attacked again, they're some psychos" But polish were terrorists during WW2, Chechens are terrorists for Russia and for America Al-Kaeda are terrorists. But it sounds right, and make people shit in their pants, that's what counts! If all war stopped there'll be complete anarchy. Our need for superiority wouldn't let us leave other people alone. We can hold grudge about something for tens of years, but we can't hold grudge to that single woman. That's why society and single people are so different.
    God...do you even have any idea what you are talking about? You can't be this childish, can you?

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