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Thread: Rikudou Sennin

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    Rikudou Sennin

    Was the Rikudou Sennin an Uzumaki?

    From what we know:


    - The Uzumaki and the Senju clan are distant relatives

    - The Uzumaki clan had exceptionally strong seals and very strong life force (like the Senju)

    - Only Uzumaki clan members have been strong enough to handle the Kyuubi's chakra.

    - The Rinnegan evolves from the Sharingan only if Senju and Uchiha blood are together in the same body


    It's possible the RS was a Uzumaki (thus had Senju blood), he gained the bloodline limit the sharingan from the Jyuubi. The rinnegan probably evolved after he became the Juubi's jinchuuriki. The RS being an Uzumaki would explain how he would have have a seal strong enough to seal the whole Juubi inside himself, when the Death god couldn't seal the whole Kyuubi inside Naruto, being that Uzumaki clan have extremely strong seals.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    I was of the opinion that the Uzumaki descended from the Senju, not the other way around. And just because Nagato could use the Rinnegan doesn't mean he had both Senju DNA and Uchiha DNA. Or rather, it does, but not in the way you're implying: the eyes he recieved from Madara counts as the Uchiha DNA necessary for the Rinnegan. Likewise, they had already transformed into the Rinnegan before Madara gave them to him. From that point on he likely only needed more chakra.

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Madara said that nagato is a senju and not an uzumaki.

    If the uchiha needs a senju's power/dna to gain the rinnegan, then does it mean that sasuke and itachi could gain the rinnegan through tsunades dna? Or why would madara wants hashirama's dna if he can kill any senju to have their dna? It doesn't make any sense. Only hashirama who has the power to trash any uchiha. And the senju never known as a clan who have an amzing chakra or amazing life force. It was the uzumaki.

    So maybe hashirama is half senju and halk uzumaki. And maybe the reason why hashirama's wood element jutsu is a freaking powerful is because of his amazing life force from his uzumaki traits.

    But, it's still an assumption. We don't really know if tobi's statement is true or he was just lying about the rikudou's sons. I'm pretty sure old man madara doesn't have a memory gap for saying that nagato is a senju and not a uzumaki.

    Tobi stated that the youngest son of the sage has an amazing life force, and his descendant is the senju. And yet no one in the senju has that kind of chakra, except for hashi and tobirama. And if the youngest son is the successor of the sage, then why the hell the senju has different clan's symbol? While the uzumaki symbol is almost the same as the sage.

    For me, obito's statement about the rikodou's sons is not yet a manga fact.

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    The Uzumaki may be related to the Senju. Or one of Nagato parents is a Senju and the other an Uzumaki...
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Madara said that nagato is a senju and not an uzumaki.

    If the uchiha needs a senju's power/dna to gain the rinnegan, then does it mean that sasuke and itachi could gain the rinnegan through tsunades dna? Or why would madara wants hashirama's dna if he can kill any senju to have their dna? It doesn't make any sense. Only hashirama who has the power to trash any uchiha. And the senju never known as a clan who have an amzing chakra or amazing life force. It was the uzumaki.

    So maybe hashirama is half senju and halk uzumaki. And maybe the reason why hashirama's wood element jutsu is a freaking powerful is because of his amazing life force from his uzumaki traits.

    But, it's still an assumption. We don't really know if tobi's statement is true or he was just lying about the rikudou's sons. I'm pretty sure old man madara doesn't have a memory gap for saying that nagato is a senju and not a uzumaki.

    Tobi stated that the youngest son of the sage has an amazing life force, and his descendant is the senju. And yet no one in the senju has that kind of chakra, except for hashi and tobirama. And if the youngest son is the successor of the sage, then why the hell the senju has different clan's symbol? While the uzumaki symbol is almost the same as the sage.

    For me, obito's statement about the rikodou's sons is not yet a manga fact.
    Well the tail beasts have confirmed things about Rikudou Sennin...and we have seen the effects of combining different paths (rinnegan, extended Izanagi, mokuton+kamui etc)

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Its something like RS -> Uchiha
    -> Senju ->Uzumachi

    At least that is how i got it. The Senju and Uzumachi shoild be the same. Madara probable whent with Nagato as he was the only choice. Its not like he could go to Konoha and donate his eyes to someone there. Nagato was the perfect choice.

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    We haven't got so much material to discuss about, considering the fact that of him we just know some exploits, some techniques and something about the period before his death.
    In any case Senju, Uzumaki and Uchiha are names that were created by his descendants, so trying to put him in one of this clans won't give us anything.
    Rikoudo in my opinion had all the power of these clans inside his body, so whetever he is called an Uzumaki, an Uchiha or a Senju doesn't make so much difference.

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    It is explained pretty well in the manga.

    Rikudo Sennin had two sons who created two clans : Uchiha and Senju.
    And the Uzumaki clan was created from the Senju clan.

    So, no...
    Rikudo Sennin wasn't Uchiha, Senju or Uzumaki. None of them.

    He was an hermit, so he was probably without a clan.


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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    It is explained pretty well in the manga.

    Rikudo Sennin had two sons who created two clans : Uchiha and Senju.
    And the Uzumaki clan was created from the Senju clan.

    So, no...
    Rikudo Sennin wasn't Uchiha, Senju or Uzumaki. None of them.

    He was an hermit, so he was probably without a clan.
    The descendants of the 2 brothers were called Senju and Uchiha. From what I can remember it never said they created the two clans.

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    It is explained pretty well in the manga.

    Rikudo Sennin had two sons who created two clans : Uchiha and Senju.
    And the Uzumaki clan was created from the Senju clan.

    So, no...
    Rikudo Sennin wasn't Uchiha, Senju or Uzumaki. None of them.

    He was an hermit, so he was probably without a clan.
    Actually all they say about Uzumaki is that they were distant blood relatives, it doesn't say that Uzumaki separated from Senjus, even more so with the confirmation in the recent chaps that Uzumaki=Senju.

    Its more likely, as someone else suggested, that the Younger Son simply had 2 sons themselves, one was a Senju, the other was an Uzumaki.
    As for the surname, easily one of the two could be a female, and thus she would've took the surname of the man she married.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member GyoMasta's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Was the Rikudou Sennin an Uzumaki?

    From what we know:


    - The Uzumaki and the Senju clan are distant relatives

    - The Uzumaki clan had exceptionally strong seals and very strong life force (like the Senju)

    - Only Uzumaki clan members have been strong enough to handle the Kyuubi's chakra.

    - The Rinnegan evolves from the Sharingan only if Senju and Uchiha blood are together in the same body


    It's possible the RS was a Uzumaki (thus had Senju blood), he gained the bloodline limit the sharingan from the Jyuubi. The rinnegan probably evolved after he became the Juubi's jinchuuriki. The RS being an Uzumaki would explain how he would have have a seal strong enough to seal the whole Juubi inside himself, when the Death god couldn't seal the whole Kyuubi inside Naruto, being that Uzumaki clan have extremely strong seals.

    Nothing sugegst that RS was an Uzumaki. Uchiha and "SenjUzumaki" came from Rikudou sennin's genetic attributes being split into 2 parts.

    "Only Uzumaki clan members have been strong enough to handle the Kyuubi's chakra

    1) It would be more accurate to say no one in the recorded Naruto History that we know about has been shown taming the Kyuubi like Madara and Hasshirama have done to then allow a member of the Uzumaki cla to seal it into him/herself. Nothing suggests that only Uzumaki can handle the Kyuubi's chakra. All the other bijuu had jinchuuriki who were unrelated the the Uzumaku or Senju. And Sasuke clearly dispelled Kyuubi's chakra when he was inside Naruto when Naruto was struggling to repel Kurama's chakra and will from overwhelmign him. And Naruto only has ahlf of Kyuubi's chakra, Minato saying the whole woukld have been to dangerous for Naruto and to useful for Tobi.

    The Uzumaki clan had exceptionally strong seals and very strong life force (like the Senju)

    2) Uzumaki having exceptionnaly strong seals: History check>> Rikudou Sennin has the 1st human in History to have displayed valuable use of the chakra, he's the one who unlocked its secret and who could use all 6 natures of chakra to their best through genetic predisposition. He's the one who invented the whole Ninshuu - Shinobi Jutsu/Ninjutsu", and thus Fuuin-Jutsu, which is part of it. Therefore no human knew about Sealing techniques before RS as he is the inventor, therefore there couldn't have been "Uzumaki clan members gifted for Fuuin-Jutsu" of which RS could have came out from as he is the #1 chronology to have displayed such skill. That's also why he's legend. Other people and his children, from whom Uzumaki emerged, learned the art through the Sennin, who didn't learn the art from others.


    It's possible the RS was a Uzumaki (thus had Senju blood), he gained the bloodline limit the sharingan from the Jyuubi. The rinnegan probably evolved after he became the Juubi's jinchuuriki. The RS being an Uzumaki would explain how he would have have a seal strong enough to seal the whole Juubi inside himself, when the Death god couldn't seal the whole Kyuubi inside Naruto, being that Uzumaki clan have extremely strong seals

    It's because he ahd the Rinnegan genetic makeup (+ over the scale genius) that he could perform so much and fight then seal the Juubi, nothing suggests that he gained the Rinnegan because of Juubi, but that because of it he could do as he did and know so much about chakra and its properties.

    It would make more sense that the Uzumaki-Senju and Uchiha were so strong (at least for Senju and Uchiha) and so gifted in the diverse arts, and more in Fuuin-Jutsu for the Uzumaki, before, through teh Elder and Younger Sons, they received both the best blood and the best teachings from the Great Sage since, as we should understand, RS was raising/teaching his sons in a way should have been better than the others he taught Ninjutsu to, as those 2 were supposed to replace HIM in what he, the RS, wass doing. They had to be the best of the best in all three mind, body and skill. Uzumaki are that good with Fuuin-Jutsu because they kept the art purer and better from their ancestors' teachings.

    So it's not that RS was an Uzumaki, but that Rikudou Sennin fathered Uzumaki Senju through his Younger Son. One could postulate that Rikudou was an Uchiha or Senju for similar reasons and the answer would have been the same.
    Last edited by GyoMasta; October 21, 2012 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Quote Originally Posted by GyoMasta View Post
    Nothing sugegst that RS was an Uzumaki. Uchiha and "SenjUzumaki" came from Rikudou sennin's genetic attributes being split into 2 parts.

    "Only Uzumaki clan members have been strong enough to handle the Kyuubi's chakra

    1) It would be more accurate to say no one in the recorded Naruto History that we know about has been shown taming the Kyuubi like Madara and Hasshirama have done to then allow a member of the Uzumaki cla to seal it into him/herself. Nothing suggests that only Uzumaki can handle the Kyuubi's chakra. All the other bijuu had jinchuuriki who were unrelated the the Uzumaku or Senju. And Sasuke clearly dispelled Kyuubi's chakra when he was inside Naruto when Naruto was struggling to repel Kurama's chakra and will from overwhelmign him. And Naruto only has ahlf of Kyuubi's chakra, Minato saying the whole woukld have been to dangerous for Naruto and to useful for Tobi.
     
    No. The Uzumaki's unique ability as excellent hosts has been mentioned several times in the manga. It doesn't help to question the manga. Sasuke dispelling the kyuubi chakra was because of his sharingan, different from keeping it in control as a host.


    Quote Originally Posted by GyoMasta View Post
    It would make more sense that the Uzumaki-Senju and Uchiha were so strong (at least for Senju and Uchiha) and so gifted in the diverse arts, and more in Fuuin-Jutsu for the Uzumaki, before, through teh Elder and Younger Sons, they received both the best blood and the best teachings from the Great Sage since, as we should understand, RS was raising/teaching his sons in a way should have been better than the others he taught Ninjutsu to, as those 2 were supposed to replace HIM in what he, the RS, wass doing. They had to be the best of the best in all three mind, body and skill. Uzumaki are that good with Fuuin-Jutsu because they kept the art purer and better from their ancestors' teachings.

    So it's not that RS was an Uzumaki, but that Rikudou Sennin fathered Uzumaki Senju through his Younger Son. One could postulate that Rikudou was an Uchiha or Senju for similar reasons and the answer would have been the same.
    It was never said RS's sons were Senju and Uchiha. They just received ocular powers and body powers respectively. Senju and Uzumaki are dilutions of the younger son. So it doesn't make sense to say Senju were better than Uzumaki at life force/sealing spells because they came before.

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    Thumbs Up Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Was the Rikudou Sennin an Uzumaki?

    From what we know:


    - The Uzumaki and the Senju clan are distant relatives

    - The Uzumaki clan had exceptionally strong seals and very strong life force (like the Senju)

    - Only Uzumaki clan members have been strong enough to handle the Kyuubi's chakra.

    - The Rinnegan evolves from the Sharingan only if Senju and Uchiha blood are together in the same body


    It's possible the RS was a Uzumaki (thus had Senju blood), he gained the bloodline limit the sharingan from the Jyuubi. The rinnegan probably evolved after he became the Juubi's jinchuuriki. The RS being an Uzumaki would explain how he would have have a seal strong enough to seal the whole Juubi inside himself, when the Death god couldn't seal the whole Kyuubi inside Naruto, being that Uzumaki clan have extremely strong seals.
    bro,i traveled this"path"over 2yrs ago...here:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...ibe?highlight=

    i know my wording is alittle off...but at that point i was knew to posting and searching out data/facts.
    but,i knew exactly what i was trying to say...

    as time has gone by...i have come to a belief that this is why uzushiogakure was destroyed.who/whom were looking for something...may it have been scrolls/RS's body/specific person/artifact.
    i even went to speculate that danzou was involved or the main perp...here:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...ack?highlight=

    but,since then i've thought about madara...maybe looking for a compatable rinnegan wielder...
    or the kin gin bros. looking for sennin treasures...
    or orochimaru looking for his share of senju/uzumaki lab rats...i've always found it funny the way he has never shown any attention towards naruto(uzumaki and jinchuuriki).
    now knowing about karin,oro may have felt he had the best pure uzumaki...hence his obsession with obtaining an uchiha body.
    haven't you guys ever found it quite convenient the way karin was found by oro in a wasted village?


    but back on topic...i believe RS was in fact born into this clan(hence the connection between uzumaki and senju).being a close cousin to senju in this light makes sense...lets say...

    i was your father(an uzumaki) and your mother(an uzumaki) give birth to you(rikudou)...but here's the catch,you are not an only child(sirname remains through siblings).
    you(RS)go on to have two sons(with or without an uzumaki mate)...now right there you got cousins to uzumakis(once the bros split only made this more relevent).
    simply,senju went on to carry the uzumaki ways as far as family ties...where the uchiha carried on the hate/jealousy/pride of the oldest son.
    in this way you still have the sirname of uzumaki and now senju/uchiha=cousins

    hell i made my thread 2yrs ago and we are still in the dark about this bit of history(very important it may be)...because this would be the ultimate revelation...that the senju and uchiha are distant cousins who have been warring against each other for decades.
    But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie. Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member GyoMasta's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
     
    No. The Uzumaki's unique ability as excellent hosts has been mentioned several times in the manga. It doesn't help to question the manga. Sasuke dispelling the kyuubi chakra was because of his sharingan, different from keeping it in control as a host.
    You're not countering my point in reference to what I was replying to. Nothing to suggest Rikudou was an Uzumaki. There weren't several times in which Uzumaki's unique ability as excellent hosts. It was said that mito was a very powerful kunoichi and that Kushina had an unique type of chakra with bijuu-suppressing properties. Naruto was just there and Kyuubi had to be sealed. Even saying the Uzumaki had birth predisposition for being more stable or excellent jinchuuriki, it would mean they acquired it from their blood relation to the Rikudou Sennin as Senju as would the Uchiha who are strong by birth, being RS's direct lineage.

    As Senju are born with stronger physical energy and life force too, the Uchiha with stronger/larger chakra and spiritual energy and the Sharingan, which for the latter, was proven to be quite efficient for suppressing bijuu with Kyuubi, it clearly means the "unique" adjective should not be applied to Uzumaki, since they're obviously not alone in that department, as they cousins and super-distant Uchiha relative would not be less good than they would. Saying Sasuke doesn't count isn't a valide argument, since your statement implies biological predisposition from the Uzumaki and Uchiha's superior chakra, spiritual energy and doujutsu are natural, biological predisposition that enable them to suppress bijuu influence the way Sasuke did and would apply if one was made a jinchuuriki.


    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    was never said RS's sons were Senju and Uchiha. They just received ocular powers and body powers respectively. Senju and Uzumaki are dilutions of the younger son. So it doesn't make sense to say Senju were better than Uzumaki at life force/sealing spells because they came before.
    Never said that; you misunderstood. I said/suggested that, aside from talent, Uchiha and Senju/Uzumaki have superior genetic and technical (as for Uzumaki's excellency in Fuuin-Jutsu) abilities from the fact that they are descendents from Rikudou Sennin's Sons, who were supposed to be RS heir in power, knowledge and philosophy in the world, and therefore they [Ancestor Sons] must have received superior teachings from their father which they transmitted to their children and so on. Such superior transmitted and cultivated knowledge being part of the of the reason why Uzumaki were so good in Fuuin-Jutsu and why Kyuubi, when being resealed by Naruto, recognized the Fuuin being used as Rikudou's technique, which sealing principle and stronger technique Minato got from Uzumaki Kushina.



    The starter of the topic was saying that Uzumaki's connection with Senju;

    their superior life force and Fuuin-Jutsu;

    them being supposidly the only ones capable of handling the Kyuubi's chakra (when no situation that lead to Kyuubi being sealed in 3 of them hinted to have appeared: that being as saying "the only ones we've seen being or adequately attempting to be Kyuubi's jinchuuriki therefore only Uzumaki can be Kyuubi's jinchuuriki" , which is a flawed statement);

    saying or suggesting that RS had Rinnegan only after he became Juubi's jinchuuriki and not that he already had it


    Those are the point to which I offered counter argument with the points I made. Also saying that Rikudou Sennin was the root of all, not part of an pre-existing Uzumaki clan who already had abilities he was the first to display, as the originator of the whole Shinobijutsu/Ninshuu and the one from which all three Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki received the superior natural gifts in terms of chakra, spirit, body, spiritual/physical energy, doujutsu and life force alike, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND: sons being the source of their father, that is.
    Last edited by GyoMasta; October 21, 2012 at 08:29 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudou Sennin

    I don't believe he was part of any known clan. I believe hes has a unique name and the ninja spawned from him. So far I am guessing his name is Sanada Yukimura. Why? Because the historical figure that was Sanada Yukimura (real name Sanada Nobushig) was rumored to have a group known as the Sanada 10 Braves, a group of ninja. Take a look at the list:

    Quote Quote:
    Sarutobi Sasuke
    Kirigakure Saizo
    Miyoshi Seikai
    Miyoshi Isa
    Anayama Kosuke
    Unno Rokuro
    Kakei Juzo
    Nezu Jinpachi
    Mochizuki Rokuro
    Yuri Kamanosuke
    Just a theory though but he was hailed as a great general of his time and a master in the battle field and the nr 1 warrior in Japan. Maybe Kishi is inspired, maybe not
    Meh

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