Toriko and his possible growth

[Jorge D. Dragon]

One though actually crossed my mind during this Arc.
Initially I thought that only Toriko would gain access to Food Honour in order to become stronger than other Heavingly Kings, but during this Arc we've seen that Sani and Coco got their Food Honour training as well, thus making them again stronger than Toriko at least for now. Zebra as well managed to get a power-up and still is the strongest among Heavenly Kings.
So my question is how Toriko will become the strongest among them as it is obvious that he has to as he is the main hero and this manga revolves around actual power. Comparing him with other Heavenly Kings he doesn't have anything special in particular as his nose isn't that special as it doesn't let him reach Sunny's level of prediction, his physical power is lower than Zebra's and as well as his overall destructive power and his resistanse to poison is as well second to Coco's. His problem is that he doesn't have any considerable special ability and is average in every department at best, so it seems at least a bit strange.
My guess is that he might develop Food Honour to a higher extent as for him every ingridient seems to be a treasure unlike other Heavenly Kings. And we already know that Food Honour and its level can change overall level of your techniques completely.
Also I believe we might see something that looks like what he did to Tommyrod's bugs in Ice Hell, when his Gourmet Cells produced special type of substanse to actually kill the bugs. That might be as well a way for him to improve as if his Gourmet Cells can produce some substances lto counter bugs or to calm his opponents down at least to some extent, then he might become considerably bigger threat to anyone.

So what do you think about it?

[Zasz]

In my opinion the Food Honor can no longer be trained.
It would be quite ridicoulous if it could be improved more, don't you agree?
About an other mean for Toriko to become stronger, I think the delicious foods are the only things with which he can accomplish such feat, or perhaps he might have another training session with Ichiryu in order to use without the help of the other kings the "Appettite".

[Buggy]

Author made a confusion with Food Honor a bit, made it look like it could only be learned in Shokurin Temple then revealing all the Kings had achieved it through unknown measures. I still think that only Toriko achieved Food immersion and that it can be only achieved on Bubble Road and other Kings have regular Food Honor, like Komatsu does. Wish author elaborated on Food Honor later on.

About Toriko's strength, strangely I see many people consider him the weakest where I've always saw him as only second to Zebra. Coco appeared the weakest because of his long absence and the fact that he is not a physical fighter. Sunny looked really strong at death falls, after learning instinct from Guemon, but he was immediately overshadowed by Toriko who used that same instinct to perform Twin Kugi Punch. If you recall Posion Whale arc when Toriko learned almost instantly to erase his presence which surprised Coco. Those two are probably hints at his greatest strength - potential to learn and adapt faster than others. I agree about his nose being inferior to others' abilities, there is almost nothing it can do that others can't and they were shown incredible versatility in use.

[llydnarz]

Author made a confusion with Food Honor a bit, made it look like it could only be learned in Shokurin Temple then revealing all the Kings had achieved it through unknown measures. I still think that only Toriko achieved Food immersion and that it can be only achieved on Bubble Road and other Kings have regular Food Honor, like Komatsu does. Wish author elaborated on Food Honor later on.

About Toriko's strength, strangely I see many people consider him the weakest where I've always saw him as only second to Zebra. Coco appeared the weakest because of his long absence and the fact that he is not a physical fighter. Sunny looked really strong at death falls, after learning instinct from Guemon, but he was immediately overshadowed by Toriko who used that same instinct to perform Twin Kugi Punch. If you recall Posion Whale arc when Toriko learned almost instantly to erase his presence which surprised Coco. Those two are probably hints at his greatest strength - potential to learn and adapt faster than others. I agree about his nose being inferior to others' abilities, there is almost nothing it can do that others can't and they were shown incredible versatility in use.

I agree with this. I thought Master Chin was the only man who could teach food immersion. And by killing him, the technique would vanish.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

So maybe you are right and Sani and Coco only learned a first basic level of Foof Honour as well as Komatsu and Toriko reached a second (deeper) level when he achieved Food Imersion.
I don't actually think that Toriko how he is now is 2nd strongest among Heavenly Kings. Of course he is strong in terms of raw power and the fastest in terms of adapting and learning something new, but still what Coco and Sani showed during the battle with their respective parts of Four Beast... what Toriko can offer against them? Coco can perform his immensly strong poison moves and they are damn fast and he as he is now doesn't have drawbacks like he had before with his stamina beeing too low to fight with seriously strong opponents. Sani's touches are also strong and they can catch enemies in a way bigger radius than before, so he can also deflect bigger and stronger attacks than before and I believe his instinct got stronger as well.

So about Toriko... I do believe he has to learn something new and I believe his Food Honour can be trained even futher. As he managed to learn it to the first level with delicate ingridients, then he can make it stronger by training it even more with them.
As we've seen during Bubble Fruit Arc it seemed that Toriko's Food Honour was still inferiour to Master Chin's, so I hope Toriko will develop it a bit more during the upcoming Arcs.

Also I think Toriko can develop new moves that derieve from his Fork and Knife. He also seemed to learn Spoon, but he still didn't show its usage. So it might be a new way for him to develop versatile and strong techs. I hope during the upcoming Cooking Festival he will show us more moves as it seems he will have to fight Bishokukai members.

[Zehahaha]

Coco have learned Food Immersion, just to be clear about it, it was stated by the author in the manga, how ? Dunno, but he did
And I don't think Sani and Zebra don't know about Food Immersion, they must certainly do

[Jorge D. Dragon]

That's one big flow. Of course it was said that Shokurin Temple has several branches, but does it have Bubble Fruit and Bubble Road in every Branch? Otherwise how is it possible to learn Food Immersion? Or there was another method to achieve it?
About Sani I agree that he might know it as well, but Zebra... I really doubt it. He is not the type to even learn Food Honour (though Sani isn't the type as well).

P.S. It might also be a bit of mistranslation about other Heavenly Kings learning Food Immersion or it might be as author's mistake as otherwise it would make all Toriko's progress mostly nothing special as he still doesn't have any considerable bonus compared to other Heavenly Kings due to Food Honour or Food Immersion. Of course he got considerably stronger, versatile and increased his stamina, but other Heavenly Kings powered-up way more after the last Arc... And this is the manga named Toriko...
But hope it will change in several Arcs. He might as well learn something from Ichiryu if he wants.

[cearon]

well, i think the problem stems from the fact that this manga didnt get developed the way it should from the start.it was obvious from the first few chapters this wasnt a manga that got the backing (or should i say confidence) of the editorial staff. they probably thought it will get canceled pretty early so they go to a direction in which toriko is the key to everything. that also made it a big problem since ppl liked the manga so they had to put in other situations in to make toriko seem not all that strong. in some manga that works but in this case it tear opened the space-time continuum (of the torikoverse ) (i will admit i didnt read the 1st one-shot about toriko that got made in 2002, if any1 knows it that will change the details ofc)

about the growth of toriko the above mentioned problem plays the main problem. shima cant make him grow up stronger than the others since it will destroy the diminutive balance he achieved so he went the other way, rather than making toriko beef up by just his own training and such, he makes sure he gets to learn things from the other FHK's as well in order to smooth out the wrinkles. it makes the story seem more finely tuned(it isnt but that is the aim).

Food Immersion is another issue. coco and sani claimed they now it and japanese versions support the fact (no mention of zebra but well he can eat the cooked bubble fruit so he at the very least have to have food honour,)that could be an unintentional mistake at first but the author run with it, or they learned the food honour from 1 of the branches rather than the main temple but their masters knew of the FI(well they should, right?) and gave them a different test. i am fairly certain(it always turned out that way doesnt it?) there r many other types of ingredients than bubble fruit.the application of it will be different thou. as chinchin's FI apperently was on a lvl outside this world.(like messi,) so toriko's FI might be much more deep a state than the others, can bring forth more in terms of power. (coco for example cant create more than 1 mold spear) and he might have learned the spoon based techniques from chinchin as jorge d. mentioned. may as well w8 till the cookfest arc.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

The thing I actually don't get is why Toriko didn't eat at least some ingridients other Heavenly Kings ate during their training. Of course not all of those ingridients should have developed Toriko's Gourmet Cells, but still I do believe it would have increased his overall power at least twice or more times than he has now and it is quite logical especially since he knows that Gourmet World is a place on a whole different level not only in terms of environment, but also wild beasts and opponents. And at some point he might not only face someone of Staajun's caliber in one on one, but as well fight two opponents at the same time and both of them might be very strong, so he just must to use any opportunity he is given in order to become stronger. Also not even talking about strength, but he is a gluton, so he always tries to eat more delicious things, so I can't comprehend why he didn't try others's training ingridients.

[cearon]

Jorge D. buddy, you ask the right questions that makes it impossible for me to concentrate on work. well since i am a pro. at my job work comes first enjoyment later.

to speculate on the question, i propose 2 scenarios.

1) the others didnt get a training regiment like toriko that hunts ingredients (this could be a ploy from the prez. dangling a bait kinda thing) but more about on point training. case in point sani went to train with guemon to learn about intuition that was suggested by yosaku rather than the ichiryuu.and since toriko is self restraining about eating GW ingriedients without komatsu.... coco at the same time was trying to find about atom. zebra ...well he was at the prison and we basically know he isnt the sharing type.

2)he did eat those ings. but we have not been shown about them. as they didnt have the same effect on toriko the way his targets affected the FHK when they helped the combo.

i am more inclined to go towards 2 more from an occam's razor pov than anything else really.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

You might be right on this.
Both possibilities might be true. But I think still all of them had more or less the same ammount of ingridients to get. The point is that, when Toriko asked Sani to give him a hand in getting Shining Gurami, then Sani got enraged and asked why only Toriko gets such a beautiful ingridient.
Still there might be a possibility that as you said not every ingridient makes the same effect on Toriko as it does on other Heavenly Kings. It was the same way with some Toriko's ingridients like Mellow Cola which had better compatibility with Zebra, but it still made both of them evolve.
Maybe they will eat more delicious ingridients later during the next Arc which might supposedly be centered around Cooking Fest. And by cooking some delicious injgrdients, the others had captured before Komatsu may grow more as a chef.

[cearon]

ooh, you are right about that comment forgot about it. that does make it more plausbile about having ings. more or less the same amount thou at the begining of the mellow cola arc we have heard toriko has the most hard training of them all. so maybe not 7 all together but close enough i believe, though i dont think toriko evolved by drinking cola it probably was autophagy getting "cancelled" i guess is the right word. when his evolves his clothes tore for effect i guess lol.

the cookfest is an arc i am looking forward to actually. shima have been mentioning it some time now and i really want some satisfactory growth from every1. hopefully we will learn about all the others' training ings. as u mentioned.

How many stars will komatsu get do you think and will he actually be more of a man?

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I think after this Arc he will get a level-up in Chef's ranking for sure, cause he managed to cook Bubble Fruit, managed to cook dissapearence cousine and also manage to adapt its preparation in order for normal chefs to prepare it and he also managed to not only prepare this special preparation medical ingridient, but also made a way to prepare it faster for normal chefs, so he should get a way higher position in ranking.
Hope we'll see Toki-kun's reaction on this.

Well, I don't know. Not always Toriko's growth is shown as reaping of closes. Sometimes he shines, sometime he smiles like an idiot (during Century Soup tasting)
So it depends. Let's see how it will be handled with Four Beast's meat. Hope everyone of Heavenly Kings will evolve significantly after eating it.

[XXGenesis]

In my opinion the Food Honor can no longer be trained.
It would be quite ridicoulous if it could be improved more, don't you agree?
About an other mean for Toriko to become stronger, I think the delicious foods are the only things with which he can accomplish such feat, or perhaps he might have another training session with Ichiryu in order to use without the help of the other kings the "Appettite".

Correct Toriko has reached the Zenith with Food Honor he completely mastered. Master Chin mentioned that his Food Honor surpassed his own, when Toriko came to save the day in the Temple arc still appreciating Food insight of the horror the Bishokai had caused. He almost Learned the super secret technique Food Immersion able to store calories up for months. There is no room for improvement unless he declines in Food Honor.

Author made a confusion with Food Honor a bit, made it look like it could only be learned in Shokurin Temple then revealing all the Kings had achieved it through unknown measures. I still think that only Toriko achieved Food immersion and that it can be only achieved on Bubble Road and other Kings have regular Food Honor, like Komatsu does. Wish author elaborated on Food Honor later on.

About Toriko's strength, strangely I see many people consider him the weakest where I've always saw him as only second to Zebra. Coco appeared the weakest because of his long absence and the fact that he is not a physical fighter. Sunny looked really strong at death falls, after learning instinct from Guemon, but he was immediately overshadowed by Toriko who used that same instinct to perform Twin Kugi Punch. If you recall Posion Whale arc when Toriko learned almost instantly to erase his presence which surprised Coco. Those two are probably hints at his greatest strength - potential to learn and adapt faster than others. I agree about his nose being inferior to others' abilities, there is almost nothing it can do that others can't and they were shown incredible versatility in use.

No, mistake I believe everybody except for Zebra learned Food Honor he just the anomaly Tank of Toriko manga he'll always be strong and advance sometimes just because he's a bad ass. Author simply didn't specify their procedure to learning it and it makes perfect sense to speculate they made their way to Shokurin Temple after Toriko and Komatsu. Same as Animaru(sp?) who learned it before Toriko.

Toriko is only 2nd to Zebra in destructive power and raw strength, I believe it'll always be like this until probably the end. He also has the knack for learning a lot faster than the other Kings and seemingly learning technique's readers would have thought would have been personal..Intuition and Puffer Whale Knocking he has an innate talent to learn very fast. His Nose as you said just isn't as versatile as Coco's EM sight, Fortune telling and Poison immunity and poison creations.

So maybe you are right and Sani and Coco only learned a first basic level of Foof Honour as well as Komatsu and Toriko reached a second (deeper) level when he achieved Food Imersion.
I don't actually think that Toriko how he is now is 2nd strongest among Heavenly Kings. Of course he is strong in terms of raw power and the fastest in terms of adapting and learning something new, but still what Coco and Sani showed during the battle with their respective parts of Four Beast... what Toriko can offer against them? Coco can perform his immensly strong poison moves and they are damn fast and he as he is now doesn't have drawbacks like he had before with his stamina beeing too low to fight with seriously strong opponents. Sani's touches are also strong and they can catch enemies in a way bigger radius than before, so he can also deflect bigger and stronger attacks than before and I believe his instinct got stronger as well.

So about Toriko... I do believe he has to learn something new and I believe his Food Honour can be trained even futher. As he managed to learn it to the first level with delicate ingridients, then he can make it stronger by training it even more with them.
As we've seen during Bubble Fruit Arc it seemed that Toriko's Food Honour was still inferiour to Master Chin's, so I hope Toriko will develop it a bit more during the upcoming Arcs.

Also I think Toriko can develop new moves that derieve from his Fork and Knife. He also seemed to learn Spoon, but he still didn't show its usage. So it might be a new way for him to develop versatile and strong techs. I hope during the upcoming Cooking Festival he will show us more moves as it seems he will have to fight Bishokukai members.

Author didn't mention other Kings learning Food Immersion and I believe Master Chin thought it to Toriko because he likes him. I doubt the others learned it if anything Zebra probably innately learned or learns it. And Master Chin stated that Toriko's food honor surpassed his own when he showed up still appreciating food in the midst of a hetic battle field. Food Honor is done with he's mastered it and level'd up all his technique's already there's no more room for growth..only in Food immersion he'll probably store up years worth of food or something....Spoon is Chin's technique Toriko just learned how to protect and most likely add more power to his fist by bending his fork around his hands...He'll always be the Knife n Fork Character with a twist on his new technique's for them to be more versatile.

Also Coco, And Sani are simply more versatile than Toriko and Zebra is too he just doesn't lack the physical power as Coco and Sani. Toriko can easily cut Sani's hair or apply a technique he wouldn't be able to block and Coco, he'll just have to take him out quick before he uses a special poison. The other Kings simply add diversity to the fighting style's seen in Toriko that isn't all physical.

One though actually crossed my mind during this Arc.
Initially I thought that only Toriko would gain access to Food Honour in order to become stronger than other Heavingly Kings, but during this Arc we've seen that Sani and Coco got their Food Honour training as well, thus making them again stronger than Toriko at least for now. Zebra as well managed to get a power-up and still is the strongest among Heavenly Kings.
So my question is how Toriko will become the strongest among them as it is obvious that he has to as he is the main hero and this manga revolves around actual power. Comparing him with other Heavenly Kings he doesn't have anything special in particular as his nose isn't that special as it doesn't let him reach Sunny's level of prediction, his physical power is lower than Zebra's and as well as his overall destructive power and his resistanse to poison is as well second to Coco's. His problem is that he doesn't have any considerable special ability and is average in every department at best, so it seems at least a bit strange.
My guess is that he might develop Food Honour to a higher extent as for him every ingridient seems to be a treasure unlike other Heavenly Kings. And we already know that Food Honour and its level can change overall level of your techniques completely.
Also I believe we might see something that looks like what he did to Tommyrod's bugs in Ice Hell, when his Gourmet Cells produced special type of substanse to actually kill the bugs. That might be as well a way for him to improve as if his Gourmet Cells can produce some substances lto counter bugs or to calm his opponents down at least to some extent, then he might become considerably bigger threat to anyone.

So what do you think about it?

He didn't kill the bugs he released the pheromones or sort as a Tree the bugs saw him as a tree and simply stopped attacking him. Toriko does appreciate and view his meals differently than all the other Kings and he learns faster than them. They each will play their part as they'll soon enter Gourmet World and I believe they'll be traveling as a pack to protect Komatsu. Toriko is fine the way he is to me I don't want able to stomp the other Kings their abilities helps to equal them out against each other. Toriko's Nose is just corny compared to everybody else...Sani=Touch Coco=Sight Zebra=Hearing Toriko=Smell.

[llydnarz]

Talking about Toriko's growth, I find it funny that Toriko only started getting strong after he met Komatsu. In the first chapter, a capture level 5 Galala Croc already seems hard for him. Wasn't he supposed to be strong already because he was trained by the strongest man in the world?