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Thread: Bleach 512 Discussion

  1. #256
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakui Lee View Post
    Why are people saying tha Akon is dead ? Cause I'm pretty he's not.
    Well he's as dead as you can get. If they don't use the dragonballs Orihime to heal everyone he is dead as well as everyone else getting blown to pieces.

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  3. #257
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    hello new guy here in this forum

    i don't think ichigo came alone into soul society. remember urahara was actually slashed by someone ridicously strong and beaten by one slash from some unknown guy, if anything a hollow possibly stronger then a vaste lorde has joined the battle and also doing some serious damage as well. remember ichigo was trapped in some random stupid prison and couldn't break it at all and had so much trouble fighting the weakling SR at hueco monde and now acting all high and mighty doesn't seem to make any sense unless he's always holding back.

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/512/4

    look at the page carefully and you see the lowest panel with the eyes don't match akon's at all there someone elses. the way ichigo has also entered is different from the one in hueco monde. He has come to terms with something.

    PErsonally i only like the berserk hollow ichigo and was actually hoping it would take over completely and kill the main weakling ichigo. lets be honest here if the hollow version of ichigo were doing the fighting right now it would make a lot more sense with a heck load of blood, gore and decapitation something the main ichigo can never do.

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  5. #258
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    Not really. Characters should die if it truly serves the plot, not just because you can...these aren't exactly teens in a horror movie lol
    it did serve the plot... you see antagonist of first arc...who fought ichigo and disliked him in the beginning started to believe in him to the point that his last words were "asking help from ichigo" ... this shows the development of his character (bakuya) itself and how ichigo has proved himself and made even his enemies like him...on top of that build up ichigos resolve much more to kick some quincy ass ...

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  7. #259
    Little tocs-Coming Soon 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by dex View Post
    it did serve the plot... you see antagonist of first arc...who fought ichigo and disliked him in the beginning started to believe in him to the point that his last words were "asking help from ichigo" ... this shows the development of his character (bakuya) itself and how ichigo has proved himself and made even his enemies like him...on top of that build up ichigos resolve much more to kick some quincy ass ...
    Indeed. I loved how Kubo developed Byakuya's character. He was a captain with pride only second to Yama, saw Ichigo as someone lower existence. Yet, here he was trusting everything to Ichigo, believing in him. It will really sad if he dies. My only complaint would be, if he dies, it was a rather dim demise. I expected more fireworks, something more grander.

    @amitnaruto : Welcome to MH. Nice to have another Bleach member.
    Last edited by thornofcarrion; October 17, 2012 at 11:19 PM.

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  9. #260
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakui Lee View Post
    Why are people saying tha Akon is dead ? Cause I'm pretty he's not.
    I think he is. He's not a major character, and he had those dead eyes in the panel where he fell over. Plus, Kubo's been so brutal as of late.

    I bet Haschvald will fight Ichigo next week. Seems too early for Bach to fight Ichigo, plus Haschvald seems to be the Ulquiorra of the SR, and it's about time he's done something. He seems more insistent on fighting Ichigo than Bach after all. I'm expecting Ichigo to tragically get his ass kicked.

    ---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thornofcarrion View Post
    Indeed. I loved how Kubo developed Byakuya's character. He was a captain with pride only second to Yama, saw Ichigo as someone lower existence. Yet, here he was trusting everything to Ichigo, believing in him. It will really sad if he dies. My only complaint would be, if he dies, it was a rather dim demise. I expected more fireworks, something more grander.
    Maybe he'll manage to walk over to somewhere and do something epic in his last moment.
    Last edited by exacta; October 17, 2012 at 11:18 PM.

  10. #261
    Little tocs-Coming Soon 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Maybe he'll manage to walk over to somewhere and do something epic in his last moment.
    Its shounen so anything is possible . Or may be Kubo can still redeem it with the flashbacks, no?

  11. #262
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by thornofcarrion View Post
    Indeed. I loved how Kubo developed Byakuya's character. He was a captain with pride only second to Yama, saw Ichigo as someone lower existence. Yet, here he was trusting everything to Ichigo, believing in him. It will really sad if he dies. My only complaint would be, if he dies, it was a rather dim demise. I expected more fireworks, something more grander.

    @amitnaruto : Welcome to MH. Nice to have another Bleach member.
    To be fair byakuya's change in attitude towards ichigo was seen long before this. Back when he fought tsukishima we actually saw tsukishima inserting himself into byakuya's memory apparently as a friend, a mentor and overall someone to whom byakuya owned everything. In such a extreme scenario in the end we saw byakuya blatantly enjoying battling tsikishima and more than that defeat him remorselessly solely because tsukishima, to whom he owned a debt he could never hope to repay, raised his sword against ichigo. More than that, we saw the captains entrusting the ginjo matter to ichigo after ichigo made his choice. Overall byakuya asking this of ichigo in the current circumstances is not something which in itself adds much to the character based on past developments, it is the emotional impact of the circumstances which counts here. If byakuya does die he does deserve to go with a bang, not just getting left to die on an abandoned part of the battlefield against an opponent who by all logic was not even properly finished by yamamoto. I wonder where is unohana at this point, last we saw of her she and her VC were just chilling at the barracks. Still, I would still find it hard to believe that byakuya would die from those wounds. Granted it was a decent bit of damage and he has lost blood but haven't we seen worst by now? The 4 captains who got slashed by aizen survived the entire time urahara, yoruichi, ishin and ichigo fought and defeated aizen, rukia survived being impaled by arroniero and chad, a normal human survived for a decent while being slashed by nnoitora. At this stage I can't imagine byakuya actually dying from this. Juha and the others are about to leave SS as far as we have seen. Based on the wounds we have seen so far provided unohana and kotetsu are not harmed there is no reason for any of the captains to die so far.

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  13. #263
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    To be fair byakuya's change in attitude towards ichigo was seen long before this. Back when he fought tsukishima we actually saw tsukishima inserting himself into byakuya's memory apparently as a friend, a mentor and overall someone to whom byakuya owned everything. In such a extreme scenario in the end we saw byakuya blatantly enjoying battling tsikishima and more than that defeat him remorselessly solely because tsukishima, to whom he owned a debt he could never hope to repay, raised his sword against ichigo. More than that, we saw the captains entrusting the ginjo matter to ichigo after ichigo made his choice. Overall byakuya asking this of ichigo in the current circumstances is not something which in itself adds much to the character based on past developments, it is the emotional impact of the circumstances which counts here. If byakuya does die he does deserve to go with a bang, not just getting left to die on an abandoned part of the battlefield against an opponent who by all logic was not even properly finished by yamamoto. I wonder where is unohana at this point, last we saw of her she and her VC were just chilling at the barracks. Still, I would still find it hard to believe that byakuya would die from those wounds. Granted it was a decent bit of damage and he has lost blood but haven't we seen worst by now? The 4 captains who got slashed by aizen survived the entire time urahara, yoruichi, ishin and ichigo fought and defeated aizen, rukia survived being impaled by arroniero and chad, a normal human survived for a decent while being slashed by nnoitora. At this stage I can't imagine byakuya actually dying from this. Juha and the others are about to leave SS as far as we have seen. Based on the wounds we have seen so far provided unohana and kotetsu are not harmed there is no reason for any of the captains to die so far.
    yea he had a change in attitude sometime back but this was the first time he could express himself to ichigo....

    also going with a bang would not add anything to the sadness of the situation...sometimes good people do die pathetic deaths... this definitely adds up to the despair created here...also sets up a ground for Renji to take revenge for his captains destroyed pride...if byakuya would have gone with a bang i definitely would have felt less sad for him...but this hopelessness and the look in his eyes...also his last words just amplify the sadness created here... later on when Renji defeats Ass Nodt i think there will definitely be a flashback of byakuya and renji adding much more impact to the fight...also Renji would have avenged his captain that time and surpassed him...

    on top of that byakuya is literally a puddle of blood embossed on a wall...no way he should survive that...

  14. #264
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Sonia Khan's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Well IMHO Ichigo will have a brutal a** kicking from a blonde quincy and then they ll retreat for some reason and then we ll see an invasion on quincy head quarters by remaining captains specially senior ones accompnying Ichigo, and then we ll have glorius one on one fights. Not so sure where Zero division will come in play.

  15. #265
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Here's this chapter explained to you all, and why it was Byakuya and his final words taking a whole chapter. It's important that I explain Byakuya because he's one of the characters that heavily influenced Bleach, not just because his fight with Ichigo was great. Buckle up, it's going to be a long ride just to deconstruct this chapter and the reason it focused on Ichigo's arrival and everybody's reaction.

    Byakuya never really believed Ichigo to be a lowly peasant or anything. He wanted Rukia to live, but his obligation as a captain was to make sure Rukia was executed, so he had to make his best to try and kill Ichigo. He didn't bother to chase after him or confirm a kill, however, because he knew, maybe even consciously, that there was a chance Ichigo could save Rukia, and that is why Byakuya spared Ichigo's life twice.

    After both their swords clashed, Byakuya realized that Ichigo never wanted to beat him, but wanted to beat the rules that held Rukia prisoner, so he admitted defeat and told Ichigo that his only reason to facilitate Rukia's execution was out of a sense of duty and his pride. The Soul Society arc closes with him thanking Ichigo:

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...9-page-15.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...9-page-16.html

    Because at the end of the day, it was a win-win situation thanks to him. By fighting Ichigo to his full potential, Byakuya didn't fail to follow his role as a captain and leader, and by taking every chance he could by letting both Ichigo and Renji live, he fullfilled his promise to Hisana and his role as a brother, since, after all, he had facilitated Ichigo's growth and Renji played his part in rescuing Rukia.

    Byakuya wasn't the only one in debt to Ichigo though, but hang on to that, I'm busy over here.

    Not much of him was seen during the first half of the Arrancar Arc. But there was a rather important page with him, that shows his change of perception of pride. He was ordered to retrieve Rukia and Renji, knowing well that Ichigo would disobey those unfair rules again and set forth to save Inoue, so Byakuya abused a loophole and allowed both Renji and Rukia to go and help Ichigo.

    A second important part of his development was shown when he killed Zommari, but not on a sense of duty "Shinigami kill Hollow, Shinigami strongest there is", but on his new found sense of pride, Rukia. After the events of SS, he had changed his beliefs that he had to follow two different major morality paths, and now he believed Rukia to be his pride, as the embodiment of his duty as a Noble, as a leader, as a husband and as a brother. It was thanks to Ichigo that he kept those responsibilities, and Rukia was there to prove it. Byakuya also became a lot softer and closer to his subordinates at this point too.

    Now here's a skip point. There's another important milestone in-between, but that one's more general. Here Tsukishima plays a very important role. And I mean very important, because it reestablishes Ichigo's importance as a main character, but it will be split in two. This one's related to Byakuya. First you have to remember how Tsukishima doesn't just alter memories, he can actually introduce himself and change the past of a person, become their new reality. At one point he manages to cut Byakuya, and introduces himself as a mentor whom he trained for a long time. Byakuya acknowledges.Tsukishima as a very important part of his life, but Tsukishima's main mistake was to introduce himself as a mentor as a way to acquire power to fight Byakuya as an equal, when he should have done the same he did with everyone and share Ichigo's presence in their lives. Byakuya mercilessly cuts Tsukishima down, and says "Though my debt to you can't be argued upon, you raised your sword against Kurosaki ichigo, as as though, I may never forgive you", because Ichigo's has become Byakuya's reason to exist. He's the basis to the new Byakuya that outgrew his old conflicted self, into a much better person. It's not only debt to Ichigo, not even his parents, senpais or Rukia will ever come close to the change Ichigo permanently instilled in him, and Soul Society (this one is for later).

    Now back to the point I skipped, because here it becomes broader and with a bigger scope. Mayuri and Byakuya get into an argument. and at the end, both have a strong belief that Ichigo will beat Aizen, and save them all. It may have been a slip of the tongue, but it was pretty clear at this point that they didn't see him as reinforcements because he wasn't under Kyoka Suigetsu, but because he had done the impossible before (many examples, but here's two: One and Two), and he could do it again.

    If you reread Bleach, you will notice it, their view on Ichigo. Allies respect him, foes are extremely wary of him. By the end of the Shinigami Agent arc, Chad, Inoue, Ishida, Urahara and Yoruichi have a strong respect and belief in Ichigo, and help him rescue Rukia. By the end of Soul Society, Ichigo had created anarchy, had the entire 11th Division as theorical allies, Renji as a comrade, and by the end of SS, Ichigo was considered a hero.. By the Arrancar Arc he had all the captains aid him, and the Vaizaados aided the captains on behalf of Ichigo. His Arrancar enemies learned to fear him. While at first they saw him as trash (his inner Hollow was interfering to the point where he could barely move at times, and also made him worry all the time), at one point they all referred to him by name and drew their swords, fighting at full power. But not only them, Gin Ichimaru did too. Since the very beginning of their fight, he knew that if he himself couldn't kill Aizen, he was sure that at some point, Ichigo would. He placed his trust in Ichigo. And not only him, every captain, Isshin, Urahara did. Aizen himself knew Ichigo wasn't to be taken lightly. In fact, he dedicated countless resources to make sure Ichigo would reach that level, and at the end of the day, he knew Ichigo had in him the power to change the world, and his final Butterfly form was nothing but a copy of Ichigonator.

    But then Ichigo beats Aizen; He changes the world and Soul Society forever. He's become a legend, even new Shinigami know who Ichigo is. On to the Lost Agent arc. A lot of thing happen, but it revolves around Ichigo past the point where he has saved everyone, and not just in a physical way. He has changed them all up to a personal level. They respect him, and want to make up for it, for their debt to him. The whole arc is the embodiment of his power to crush destiny, as that special chapter is called. Ichigo doesn't know it, but everybody has worked on his back to make sure he will never be alone (not literally alone) again. His sisters, his friends, his father. But most importantly, Soul Society. They were in a difficult situation. They owed him, but he was now cooperating with a known traitor that meant to destroy them. But they helped him anyway. The broke that one rule that was punished by death, they gave him his power back. Ichigo changed them, their traditions and rules, something he was fighting against since SS arc, he succeeded.

    And not only that, he also saved the Fullbringers, and Ginjo. Ever realized why Ichigo fought Ginjo for a bit before easily killing him? Why Riruka jumped in front of Ichigo to stop Tsukishima? Because she realized how he saved Ginjo. Ichigo waited until Ginjo realized that he understood him, that Ichigo was thinking "I know you, we've been betrayed, but things have changed. You are mad, you lost yourself, and you want to kill and destroy everything for revenge, I understand, but I can't let you do that" before delivering the killing blow.

    Following Ginjo's death, Ichigo went to talk to Yamamoto to retrieve Ginjo's body. Most of the captains went to receive him. They were still unsure of what would happen next, so they assisted and made an official meeting for an unofficial, unusual situation. Ichigo demanded coldly to take Ginjo's corpse to bury. He didn't forgive the Shinigami for forcing Ginjo into a rampage, but he left something clear. He was in debt with them, they were in debt in him. Important: He would trust them (he took the badge back with him) and they would trust him.

    This is all buildup for what is coming next. As of now Ichigo has become a catalyst for the story, and he's the person that changes everything forever. How and why, I won't explain that. It would take over 20 pages to explain. But I have posted a short version before, hope you were paying attention. So here is where this long wall of text collides. This chapter.

    For those who noticed. All of those details I've mentioned are recurring this arc. At this point everybody on the "good side" respects Ichigo, everybody on the "bad side" fear him. And they are stuck in a rather nasty situation: War, which the enemies are winning. It's a very desperate situation. But there's a ray of hope, the true source of light: Guess who. Ichigo is far beyond everybody else. The VandenReich actively avoid him. So when everything is lost, the Research team contacts him, and ask for help. This phrase becomes common "Ichigo is here, he will definitely save us". When the message spreads that Ichigo is on his way, there's a large relief for everybody. True relief..

    Then comes a trap, that many, if not most readers fell for. Kubo made Yamamoto jump to the front lines. Any reader's impression would be "Yamamoto is so badass, and now he used Bankai. The enemy is so dead". And if you truly believed Yamamoto would do anything to impede the imminent destruction of Soul Society, oh boy, Kubo played you. He lured you into a false sense of security by employing the character that so many people believe to be the "undisputed strongest character in Bleach". But the reality is, Yamamoto was meant to die. Why? Because it's the logical progression of the events if you've been following this through. Yamamoto is the embodiment of the old Soul Society, which is the old system that made absolutely everybody angry to some extent. But Ichigo changed, and he's the embodiment of the new Soul Society. Storytelling demanded Yamamoto to die here, because his time was up from a story perspective. And now it demands for Ichigo to rise. "The Moon rises when the Sun dies".

    So finally, we've reached this chapter. All the buildup of an entire story has come to this. The fake ray of hope has extinguished with Yamamoto's death last chapter, and Ichigo arrives. Akon is happy to see Ichigo, before falling dead. There's a whole page dedicated to the captains and vice captains reaction to his arrival, the people who have placed their trust in Ichigo, who respect him. Their savior is here. But having them all have a coordinated dialogue where they explain this to the reader would be cheesy, contrived, and quite frankly, it would be shit. So Kubo used Byakuya, the strongest bridge between Soul Society and Ichigo, to explain this. Although it's only him, as a character, in the same line of development as the examples above explain, in reality it's him speaking in behalf of SS and his fellow captains that they entrust him with their future and survival.

    This is why Ichigo will save them, and why this chapter was dedicated to his arrival. If you really believe that Bach will dispose easily of him, you are reading a different story. If you think this chapter would have fit in 4-5 pages, then you are missing the point big time. This chapter symbolizes the progress that has taken place throughout the story, and there are more than words in these panels. If you didn't know everything I've told this post, then I'm afraid you haven't read Bleach at all.

    I think I've taken spoon feeding up a notch here.

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  17. #266
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by amitnaruto View Post
    i don't think ichigo came alone into soul society. remember urahara was actually slashed by someone ridicously strong and beaten by one slash from some unknown guy, if anything a hollow possibly stronger then a vaste lorde has joined the battle and also doing some serious damage as well. remember ichigo was trapped in some random stupid prison and couldn't break it at all and had so much trouble fighting the weakling SR at hueco monde and now acting all high and mighty doesn't seem to make any sense unless he's always holding back.
    He came alone most likely. Quillge closed the garganta from their side. Maybe others will come, but they didn't come with Ichigo.

    Urahara wasn't slashed, just surprised. And I didn't really see the person who slashed Quillge "ridiculously strong", just strong. His blut wasn't active and he could be hurt. The same way Urahara pierced a hole through him, he was cut in half. I think it's Grimmjaw and that's all there is to it.

    So my brother was reading some older chapters yesterday and I was pretty surprised to see this:
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-552-18...hapter-98.html

    Almost the exact same thing as with Byakuya in the last chapter:
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/512/13

    Not bad.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

  18. #267
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Let us just all agree to disagree here. There are readers of the chapter who loved it and there are those who hated it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    But there is one thing we all agree with: WE ALL WANT THE READ THE NEXT CHAPTER!!!
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

  19. #268
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member cleodux's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    I think the reason Byakuya to loose focus on his fight because of his fear for Rukia's safety. I mean... he did imagine her like that lol. But... i am really hoping Kubo will pull a dragon ball on Byakuya. I don't want him to die even though is necessary for the progression. Not until Rukia understood how Byakuya loves her so much (as a sister).

    Yeah i am hoping another shoujo moment here. But hey... Kubo has done weird things in the past.
    lol

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  21. #269
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ruissu's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Spoiler show


    My good sir, that was one of the best resumes of bleach i've ever laid my eyes upon.

    As far as i am concerned, in the last 6 years i've been following bleach, there have been times when i feel frustrated, but looking on the long term, even the less informative chapter had something to had in the long run. This chapter made me shiver, it really stirred up all those chapters so long ago.

    It made me remember why it all started, what was built, what was fought for.

    Byakuya is the solemn example of shinigami pride, and it's (SS) pride, has been entrusted to the, once ago, enemy, and now, wouldbe savior.
    I've come to appreciate bleach, i do. Give or take a mistake made, but it is by far, my favorite manga since a long time.

    Kudos for you sir. Well done
    Nothing is ever right. Therefore, if everything is going right ... something is wrong

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  23. #270
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Bleach 512 Discussion / 513 Predictions

    Spoiler show
    Simply a beautiful well thought out analysis. I don't think I've read any post as detailed concerning bleach as this.
    And the Moon will rise and lead everyone to victory!!
    Like I said before, It's kinda ironic that many readers think the Ichigo will fail miserably while soul seciety & his friends sure believe in his power to lead them to victory.
    How can anyone doubt Ichigo's ability to win after seeing this chapter?
    Last edited by Kay3795; October 18, 2012 at 05:18 AM.

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