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...a pure titan.
I'm just try to judge/understand/deduct things by looking at what characters say, how they act, etc.
I'm pretty sure R&B's original mission was to "wipe all humans inside the wall" because... well, they said so themselves (and looked very convincingly being honest while doing it). Then they opted to stop that in favor of kidnapping Eren for whatever reason.
So yeah, it's very hard to make and educated guess or formulate an informed hypothesis when you have only bits of information.
Regarding the Ape Titan specifically, I would think it's not a direct threat to R&B (at least atm) just by looking at R&B's facial expression when they saw it at Castle Utgard. Just a guess, not that I couldn't be wrong.
If the Ape Titan showing up is the main reason for R&B to make up their mind about returning to their place, I honestly don't know. Maybe?
But keep in mind, Reiner got his arm in pretty bad shape, so their cover was essentially going to be fucked up real soon anyways, hence Reiner talking that surprisingly openly to Eren.
Being Titan-shifters, one would think using their powers to get them out of a very close call if need be shouldn't be that much a problem, so I don't think Reiner was sincerely worried about having risked his life one time too often as much as being too damn near to blowing up their cover before they managed to kidnap Eren.
Obviously Bertholdt, lacking any self confidence and being the pussy he is, is only capable of thinking about returning home. On top of that, he immediately shits his pants and freaks out going all "WTF you saying? You SURELY oughta be in real bad shape to say SUCH stupid things, isn't it?" as soon as Reiner spills the bins out
So yeah, that's what I think about R&B taking the mask off that suddenly and acting the way they did. About the Ape Titan being a factor within that decision of Reiner's? Who knows.
Regarding the latest chapter, Ymir deducted that finding out the Ape Titan's location is key for R&B's to be able to return to their hometown (whatever that ever happens to be).
Usually, when a character does her smarty talk about anything, it's just a way for the author to say "Look my dear reader, I know this is all a big mess, but let me explain what's really going on here so that I can make things move on in some cool way without you going insane for no reason".
So I'm essentially taking what Ymir says for granted (ie she is not taking it all wrong) just by knowing how decent writing works.
But how exactly finding out where the Ape went relates to R&B being able to return home? How would I know. Maybe the Ape came aboard a giant space ship and they are hoping they can steal it somehow... (no worries, I'm just kidding).
All in all, I think you already answered to all of your doubts in the best possible way:
Last edited by Bandreus; June 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM.
What if the Ape titan didn't come alone over the wall?
Ymir said that maybe he was measuring their strenght, and that Riener and Berth can leave when they find Ape titan's location but I think she's just wrong. Maybe he transformed people from Connie's village for another reason. And remeber how Annie, Reiner and Berth used the commotion after the first attack to get inside the walls?
Combining all that, I got this: During the second attack on Trost, RBA are stopped by Eren and the Garrison. They decide to remove/kidnap Eren as he is an obstacle and a threat/mystery to them. But ther primary goal is unchanged, that's why Annie still enrolls in Military force to enter the interior walls.
After their attack and attempted kidnap failed, came the reinforcements. Ape titan and unknown number of other shifters climb over the walls. Shifters disperse and approach the cities while Ape titan makes a diversion, making everyone believe that Wall Shina has been breached. Once the evacuation starts, shifters use the commotion to blend in with the general population and make their way towards the inner walls.
That was a preconceived plan B in case RBA run into complications, which they did. Reiner and Berth remebered the plan (even got lucky enough to visualy confirm their ally), and realizing that they can leave now since others will finish the job, they decide to take Eren and Ymir and simply run for it.
And about the next chapter, I'm pretty sure that Mikasa, Armin and company will reach the giant forest before nightfall, rescue Eren, and than continue to Shinganshina during the night to plug the breach and get to the basement.
What makes me most curious is when Reiner says to Eren "It's not a bad deal" during his persuasion. There're a few possibilities I can think of:
- They're the only enemies remaining within the wall, so it's not a bad deal that they leave for good.
- They're the only special Titans within the wall, so it's not a bad deal the strongest two are gone.
Going by the first scenario, he'd be telling the truth. In the second case, he'd be telling half a lie (basically not fully honest) but still tries to work in Eren's favour.
If shifter reinforcements (i.e. assuming they're just as special and strong) did come (which serves to be the reason for R&B leaving, meaning they must know about the backup) then Reiner would be straight up telling a lie. It could as well be possible, but I wonder if Reiner was in the state of mind at the time to tell such a massive lie. But then again, having come to wipe out humanity with such a strong reason, there's gotta be another strong reason to make them quit, and even then I very much doubt the reason will be strong enough to completely halt the annihilation mission (i.e. their mission is taken over by somebody else, be they special Titans or normal Titans.)
Also, I really want to know what Annie's true role is. If it's as simple as wiping out from within the inner most walls then... surely she knows she can't do that alone? Assuming R&B won't be there for her... Although I can't tell if she were planning to join the Military Police before finding out about Eren.
Yes, the Ape Titan not being alone is a possibility. We simply don't know I guess.Quote:
Mmmmh, sure, Ymir could still be wrong. Although I still believe she has pretty much hit bull's eye.Quote:
At first, Reiner tries to deny they are related/interested to the Ape. Also note the expression on their faces when Ymir states her theory about what's going on. Lastly, check Reiner's reaction at Ymir almost going straight to the point about who the real enemy behind all of this migh be, questioning her about how much she thinks can be done about the "supposedly wrong" situatiation she depicted.
Jeeze, Reiner seems to actually be very worried about Ymir being able to get such a clear picture of what is going on.
Yeah, it might as well be the case. Although I think, if all they cared about was getting rid of an obstacle, they might as well had devised a plan which didn't involve "hey Eren, we're the Titans responsible for all of this, please come with us, would you?". Keep in mind R&B&A have been living together for quite some time now, so it's not like taking him out in a discrete way was entirely out of their options (like Annie took rid of the two Titan Guinea Pigs without anyone noticing).Quote:
Yet, I'm not willing to rule out this possibility entirely. We have no clue about why exactly they might want to kidnap Eren. It might as well be they see a potentiall powerful ally in Eren, if only they can make him turn to their cause. As with almost every mystery in SnK, we simply lack enough info to say for sure.
What we do know, is they are not actively pursuing their original plan anymore and all they care is going back to wherever they came from. To be entirelly honest, R&B never once show any sign of worry or apprehension about Annie being captured. I always found this to be pretty interesting, although I guess this might be because of them simply not liking her much in the first place.
Also, Annie never actively took part in any of the Two attacks to the walls performed by R&B. All in all, I think (judging by her past behavior and personality) she simply is so selfish and that much of a lone-wolf that she opted to enlist in the Police because she really didn't want to put herself in any unnecessary trouble. Obviously being able to more easily gather intelligence from inside the innermost wall perimeter would come as an added benefit, but she does go as far as going all the way up to where the Scouting Legion is to take out the two captive Titans as soon as she deems it necessary, so...
All of this is very interesting and mysterious indeed. I don't feel like jumping to conclusion about all of this because I feel we really lack information about the whole thing.
Again, I don't have any clue whatsoever about how many Titans might have come along the Ape, so I don't really know what to say. It might or not be...Quote:
Anyway, it really looks like the Ape Titan was on some very brief recon mission. He was clueless about the 3DMG tough. If R&B were able to stay in contact with outside allies, one would expect they would share as much info as they could. So I don't know... it might as stilll be the Ape the Ape decided to come to the rescue because he haven't been hearing from R&B in a very long time? But then, why going back from where he came after taking a lil walk inside the walls? You do need the two groups (R&B - Ape) to stay in contact to organize a diversion, but that would partially invalidate the fact the Ape seemed to be that little knowledgeable about humans.
I still think R&B really weren't expecting to see the Ape Titan in the slightest in that instance, whatever that might mean. Maybe they weren't hoping to see an ally right when they needed the most, or maybe they were witnessing something they never thought existed in the first place.
Either way, it would look like seeing the Ape did have an impact on their decision, although I need to point out once again Reiner clearly stated their original mission was has changed since. But still, a few pages later, he's willing to fulfill his duties as a warrior regardless the consequences, implying that kidnapping Eren was one of their main goals at that point, rather than a "I'll do this just cause I have the chance" kind of thing.
Also (I won't post links again cause those can be found in my prev post) I believe that Reiner revealing his identity cause their cover was gonna blow up anyways is a pretty major point. There's no logical explanation for them to otherwise do such a thing when they could have just act as usual a little longer, only to disappear never to be seen again as the chance presented itself (they weren't aware people was suspecting them already in the slightest). This, together with everything else, is why I think Eren (and possibly Ymir too) was their very top priority at the time.
I'm not saying the Ape Titan didn't have a prominent weight with their decision, nor assuming anything about an hypothetical allegiance between R&B and the Ape, mind you. I simply believe we don't have enough elements to assume one possibility in place of the other.
Sadly enough, I completely agree with this. Chances are we will be left clueless once again about anything meaningful. Damn you Asayama!!! xDQuote:
I think the Ape Titan is Eren's father, Grisha Yeager. Grisha from what he told Eren, knows the secrets of the Titan and everything involving the people of the Walls. It sas said that Grisha cured the plague that was infecting humans. Grisha serum that he gave Eren, is probably the same serum he gave to the people that turned them into Titans 100 years ago. This means that Grisha created the first Titans or had something do with it. Titans don't seem to age like humans so Grisha used it on himself and has been living for many years. Also, Grisha's father has been missing for 5 years and his appearance as the Ape he saw the 3D maneuver and thought when did they get this type of technology. The 3D maneuver seem like new technology and Grisha wouldn't have known about it since he's been gone for some time.
When Grisha was in Shinganshina he would have seen Wall Maria's stationary corps troops there. Even if for some reason he hadn't seen them, he is known to have spent time in the interior and by passing through the inner walls he would surely have seen the other stationary guards, and probably the royal military police. There is no way he wouldn't know what 3D gear was. That said, I do think there's a possibility he could be the ape titan (resemblance and scientific mind/inquisitiveness in particular pointing me in that direction), but he would have to have some kind of "amnesia" as a titan if so, because he should definitely be familiar with 3D gear.
The ape-titan is not as mysterious as it looks. It is just another one of those Warriors(human shifter) to check out the situation since R&B and Annie had failed in their missions after the 5 years, and Annie had been captured. It was also somewhat of a signal that R&B should retreat. The existence of Titan-shifters among humans was not expected, hence they needed to reformulate their plans.
My theory is that there are different types of serums that induce different effects on humans :
1) Normal serum : Normal mindless Titans
2) Armor serum : Armored Titan
3) Colossal Serum : for Colossal Titan
4) Grisha's Serum : Eren's and Annie's forms. (I am not implying Grisha gave the serum to Annie, just that the serum were same)
5) Nocturnal Serum : For nocturnal mindless titans
6) Hairy Ape Serum : For ape Titan
Last edited by vanihba2000; July 05, 2013 at 03:19 AM.
Alternative theory: what if the longer one stays in titan form, the less human s/he comes to look? I wonder this because maybe it would explain why some titans can't walk on two legs, and why some aren't just grotesque (missing skin or extended jawline like Bert are gross but not inhuman specifically) but have specifically non-human characteristics (ape titan's arms and hair; Ymir's shark teeth and lack of bipedality). I know it's a stretch but I just thought I'd put this out there so people would keep an eye on titan features along with me.
just wondering where did eren's dad went again? this is just a hunch but i think eren's dad has a strong connection with R,B&A's mission to kidnap eren, or maybe he is the one who made that order to capture eren, because he has the key in which his father give to him right. regarding that ape titan, i think he is a human type titan, discovering the 3dm gear, the severing the nape method he is probably the kind of good experiment gone wrong
Last edited by janjan99; July 08, 2013 at 12:38 AM.
Monkey Trouble is definitely capable of turning ordinary humans into titans
I read this hipothesis about ape titan from users Kurimu and OnePieceQ8 in other forum, they say the ape titan could be Rivaille (Levi) because he is nowhere to be seen during the ape titan appereance, plus Rivaille and the ape titan share the same disgust for blood, as seen here:
I really don't share that opinion but it could be that they are related in some way without being the same entity?
Last edited by Huesoman; July 20, 2013 at 06:45 PM.
Hmm. Not seeing it. Obviously Levi knows about 3D gear, and the ape titan's personality is completely different aside from the blood thing. (Most people dislike the sight of blood anyway.) On top of that, isn't Levi's injured arm still healing?
Well, I don't agree with that hipothesis but maybe when into ape titan mode he doesn't remember everything? You know, nobody knows how a beast titan "function" so to speak. But to be honest I dont think Levi is the ape titan. BTW, why people think he injured his arm? I didn't see any pag where he shows the bandaged arm, plus his right arm looks fine here:
and his left arm looks fine here:
and both look fine here:
cap30 pag26 he is supposed to be injured, but in the image I just can imagine his leg being injured, not the arms:
and finally, same chapter, next pages, when he fought the female type titan, it looks like his arms were fine because after helping mikasa he use both of them to cut the female type. Unless, of course, he hurts his arm in...a parallel reality .
I'm sorry, I'm not loading three different entire chapters to look at (four times if I clicked the links separately) that so I'll just take your word for it as I find what I'm looking for. I tried to find what you were talking about on another site but I didn't see anything to indicate Levi's arms were in good shape. He doesn't have to be wearing a bandage all the time to be injured.
Here, Levi from chapter 37: "I may be useless in combat right now, but..."
(@everyone: Mangabird isn't compatible with AMR so I can view pages one at a time over there instead of loading the entire chapter. Please use links from Mangabird, or embed the image here, if you're so inclined.)
Last edited by kannazuki; July 20, 2013 at 09:35 PM.