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Thread: Armored and Colossal Titan.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Cool Armored and Colossal Titan.

    First of all, this is NOT MY THEORY. I'm just copying and pasting here. The original:

    http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/36...prefixid=m9011

    Spoiler: Theory show
    Last edited by Knifeshade; October 14, 2012 at 10:25 PM.

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Knifeshade's Avatar
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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Edited the OP under tags, since the text was way too long~
    ----

    Anyway, personally, I'm not convinced yet that Reiner is a titan. If I had to put it in numbers, I'd say I'm 10% suspicious of him.
    The only point that's interesting to note for me is the last paragraph (minus some shaky interpretations). Even I find it hard to explain how Annie ran straight for the back of the formation after that occurrence. The rest can be more or less debunked in some way or another (some of those hypotheses are a little bit of a stretch and clutching at straws).
    -

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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    While I agree with the theory, a lot of that "evidence" is pretty much just that person reading way too much into things. I'm not going to go through and refute each and every point, but I have to note that when someone reads something into someone telling another person that they are glad they did not get hurt, they are trying way too hard.

    The issue comes down to two things:
    1) Appearance
    2) The location of their village (I completely disagree with how the author of the theory read that scene though. A person running for their life is not going to have a clear memory of what happens. That being said, I do think that part of that story is a lie.)

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Knifeshade's Avatar
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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    The issue comes down to two things:
    1) Appearance
    I love how that's the very first thing that's noted too:

    1. Physical Appearance
    First, obviously, is their appearance. Here is a link to chapter 2, page 30, to see what that titan looks like:
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/shinge...1/c002/30.html

    And compare it with Reiner's appearance:
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/shinge...1/c002/38.html
    So, at the very least, they look very similar, which is a prerequisite.


    On that page, you can see Eren and Mikasa are still young. I can't recall their exact ages from memory but I assume Reiner would be more or less around the same age at that time? So 7-10 years old? Hard to believe somebody of that age has mastered titan powers when we see how hard it is for a young-adult to handle it.
    -

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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    I love how that's the very first thing that's noted too:

    1. Physical Appearance
    First, obviously, is their appearance. Here is a link to chapter 2, page 30, to see what that titan looks like:
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/shinge...1/c002/30.html

    And compare it with Reiner's appearance:
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/shinge...1/c002/38.html
    So, at the very least, they look very similar, which is a prerequisite.
    Physical appearance is the first thing I mention for the same reason he does: from what we know (Annie and Eren being our examples), a person's titan form looks similar to their normal appearance which means a character has to look like a titan to be a reasonable suspect of being that titan. Now, if we find out that a titan can change appearance, all bets are off.

    Physical appearance alone will almost never be evidence enough, but it is a prerequisite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    On that page, you can see Eren and Mikasa are still young. I can't recall their exact ages from memory but I assume Reiner would be more or less around the same age at that time? So 7-10 years old? Hard to believe somebody of that age has mastered titan powers when we see how hard it is for a young-adult to handle it.
    That is a decent point, but we do not really know much about the titan transformation process, so we have no real basis by which we can say what is reasonable or not. Eren has had almost zero training or experience so what he does is not a great point of reference.

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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    About the titan vapor, i'm in doubt.
    Annie and Reiner must have been hurt several times when they trained, it's not possible that someone didn't noted, but Annie running to the right location after she had caught Reiner was suspicious.

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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 41 Discussion / 42 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    While I don't know about him being an Half-Titan it's quite evident he is an Ally of Annie.
    Spoiler show

    "The Right Flank is where she came from"
    Spoiler show

    "I have a feeling she is looking for someone....Eren"
    Spoiler show

    Reiner: But wasn't Rivaille's squad Eren is a part of supposed to be in charge of the right flank where she came from?
    Where might Eren really be?
    Armin to Reiner: "He should be in the safest spot....the back of the center."
    Spoiler show

    Look at what Area of her Body Reiner is held at.
    Spoiler show

    And Annie headed straight to Eren next.
    Spoiler show

    Reiner being the one who proposed to save the Titan "Eren", Jean even questions if he's out of his mind.
    Annie being the sole one to go along.
    You have a good point there. Armin had just said about 'that guy who was in a hurry to die is dead' which made Annie freeze and then Ryner attacked. Then Annie ran straight to the location of Eren after being told he was dead and Ryner having the chance to tell her. Even Armin said 'how? She's heading straight to where Eren is!' She obviously didn't know where Eren was at first hence the taking of hoods to see Armin's face.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Beatrice's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 41 Discussion / 42 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ragna2400 View Post
    You have a good point there. Armin had just said about 'that guy who was in a hurry to die is dead' which made Annie freeze and then Ryner attacked. Then Annie ran straight to the location of Eren after being told he was dead and Ryner having the chance to tell her. Even Armin said 'how? She's heading straight to where Eren is!' She obviously didn't know where Eren was at first hence the taking of hoods to see Armin's face.
    Precisely.

    Isayama gives alot of hints afterall.
    Spoiler show

    Just as examples.
    "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    What I don't get is how Reiner and Bertholdt decided to kill all of humanity (year 845) when they were about 7-10 years old. Am I missing something? Are they more older than Eren or were they just really mature at a young age? They also looked exactly the same (size wise) then, as Titans, as they do now.

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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauris View Post
    What I don't get is how Reiner and Bertholdt decided to kill all of humanity (year 845) when they were about 7-10 years old. Am I missing something? Are they more older than Eren or were they just really mature at a young age? They also looked exactly the same (size wise) then, as Titans, as they do now.
    I think Reiner and Bertholdt are older than Eren. I could be wrong though...

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member teioh's Avatar
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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Their motivations must be hidden into Reyner's words just before the transformation:

    http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/25

    He said they (him and Berthold) were "brats who knew nothing" and than he talked about "those fools" who manage him to become a "shitty pathetic bastard" and finally he states to be a warrior who must "to fulfill his duty" taking his responsabilty.

    A question of mine: why they no longer have to kill all humanity? Maybe they understand something? For example that those fools that manage them to become titans lied to him and Berthold to deceive them?

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Tauris's Avatar
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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by teioh View Post
    Their motivations must be hidden into Reyner's words just before the transformation:

    http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/25

    He said they (him and Berthold) were "brats who knew nothing" and than he talked about "those fools" who manage him to become a "shitty pathetic bastard" and finally he states to be a warrior who must "to fulfill his duty" taking his responsabilty.

    A question of mine: why they no longer have to kill all humanity? Maybe they understand something? For example that those fools that manage them to become titans lied to him and Berthold to deceive them?
    By saying they were brats means that they weren't that much older than Eren at the time. I find it curious that even as children (brats) they were able to transform into fully sized "adult" Titans and didn't change at all. So, if age doesn't matter when turning humans into Titans, then some of these Titans could be relatively young children (or maybe really old too?). I think the turning-humans-into-Titans process is only really successful when it is done at a really young age.

    But anyway, to your questions. I think you're right. They were probably young and naive, and were basically coaxed into fighting for a cause that they now don't believe. Since it was something they are/were strongly tied to it took a lot for them to turn against their mission and decide to tell Eren.

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    SQUEE x 9000 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Calling himself a "brat" could refer to maturity level, rather than literal age. He might have meant that he was immature, and knew nothing. I can't recall his age being given, it is possible Reiner and Bertholdt are older than Eren. If they were 14 or 15 when well Maria was destroyed it would explain their mastery over there titan powers. Both are taller than average, and could already have been that tall by their early teens. If they are the same age as Eren it would be a major, major plothole. Nothing could explain ten year olds being able to reek that type of havoc.

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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauris View Post
    By saying they were brats means that they weren't that much older than Eren at the time. I find it curious that even as children (brats) they were able to transform into fully sized "adult" Titans and didn't change at all. So, if age doesn't matter when turning humans into Titans, then some of these Titans could be relatively young children (or maybe really old too?). I think the turning-humans-into-Titans process is only really successful when it is done at a really young age.

    But anyway, to your questions. I think you're right. They were probably young and naive, and were basically coaxed into fighting for a cause that they now don't believe. Since it was something they are/were strongly tied to it took a lot for them to turn against their mission and decide to tell Eren.
    Actually, what's really curious is how Berthold as the Colossal titan was able to manifest himself outside of Wall Maria. According to what we know so far, that would suggest he already knew how to operate the 3D gear at the time, or at the very least, that he had an accomplice that helped him get on the top of the wall. The latter of which is problematic as he would still be a target for all the other titans after dispelling his transformation.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Tauris's Avatar
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    Re: Armored and Colossal Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by momotaro84 View Post
    Actually, what's really curious is how Berthold as the Colossal titan was able to manifest himself outside of Wall Maria. According to what we know so far, that would suggest he already knew how to operate the 3D gear at the time, or at the very least, that he had an accomplice that helped him get on the top of the wall. The latter of which is problematic as he would still be a target for all the other titans after dispelling his transformation.
    Oooh, that also kinda needs to be explained. I expect the author to have a very convincing explanation of the events of that day, maybe through the point of view of Berthold and Reiner. The author gave small clues to their identities all through the manga and I bet he had this all laid out. The manga has come so far to have a big plot hole ruin (well not ruin) this amazing story.

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