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Thread: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

  1. #166
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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Ichigo wasn't scared at all during his fight with Grimmjow. He got scared after his fight with Ulquiorra. His mask became "heavy" and he got trashed by Yammy. I don't care about Dangai Ichigo. Unohana explicitly said, that his reiatsu is twice that of a captain. She was obviously comparing it to her reiatsu. And under any circumstances was she weaker than Ichigo. She would trash him. Fear inside him isn't changing his reiatsu capacity. So I don't even know what would it have to do with anything, if Ichigo really was scared during fight with Grimmjow.



    Strength is not he same as reiatsu, period. Noone said recovering reiatsu takes much reiatsu. If that was the case, than how useless is it? Inoue wouldn't be able to heal Ichigo, as her reiatsu isn't even fraction of Ichigo's reiatsu. Her reiatsu was a reiatsu of a normal captain, half of what Ichigo had back in Aizen arc.
    That's just plain silly reasoning. You can't be two faced in your arguments. Questioning someone's conclusions by reasoning then not backing your's is hypocrisy. So you're not being fair in your replies or arguments if you make a conclusion the way someone else you criticised just did.
    Last edited by freshseth83; July 17, 2013 at 03:20 PM.

  2. #167
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Tonix's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Wow the Ichigo vs Shinji fight was surprisingly close, I think that really says something about the thought process of voters here if the main character has to scrape out victories instead of lolhyping his way to the end with ease.
    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    PS. To bad you are not 4 years older and living in my country as i would love to exchange ideas over a drink :P
    Tell the emperor that my hall has fallen to the ground. Phoibos no longer has his house, nor his mantic bay, nor his prophetic spring; the water has dried up.- Pythia of Delphi

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    That's just plain silly reasoning. You can't be two faced in your arguments. Questioning someone's conclusions by reasoning then not backing your's is hypocrisy. So you're not being fair in your replies or arguments if you make a conclusion the way someone else you criticised just did.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...95-page-5.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...95-page-8.html

    "Our reiatsus aren't that different" (Unohana's statement #1), talking to Ichigo with half (Ichigo's statement) of his reiatsu, that is considered captain-class (Unohana's statement#2). So if Unohana compared herself to captain-class saying it's not really different, what does it mean?

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    She was speaking in general terms. Captain class reiatsu. Not literally the same amount. She said their reiatsu isn't too different, nothing about the amount. She obviously has massive amounts of reiatsu to use her own to heal herself. How do you self heal in bleach unless you're a hollow with regenerative abilities? Only Aizen and Unohana have shown to do this, and Aizen relied on the Hoguyoku.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    She was speaking in general terms. Captain class reiatsu. Not literally the same amount. She said their reiatsu isn't too different, nothing about the amount. She obviously has massive amounts of reiatsu to use her own to heal herself. How do you self heal in bleach unless you're a hollow with regenerative abilities? Only Aizen and Unohana have shown to do this, and Aizen relied on the Hoguyoku.
    Yeah, by saying "our reiatsu isn't that different" when Ichigo commented on how ammount of her reiatsu she didn't mean the ammount of her reiatsu. Makes sense.

    Also, you have no base to say, that healing yourself requires high amount of reiatsu. It's your assumption, as you can't understand how it can work differently. And I won't blame you for it, but stop saying like it is a fact and use it as argument. You won't convince me with baseless assumption that you made up to get the impression you know what's going on in this manga.

    So basically, you say you use your own reiatsu to heal body/reiatsu. Unohana states, that healing reiatsu is common thing for Shinigami. So you want to tell me, that if you want to heal for example Kenpachi, you need the whole squad for that? Or to call Unohana because she might be able to heal some part of his reiatsu? Kirinji's hell blood pond doesn't really use his reiatsu. It uses reiatsu of a special-made pond. And it doesn't seem like it has to be recharged. Everything is made of reiatsu >.< Body as well.

    So we have Ichigo, who is currently on a captain level reiatsu and it is half, so he has whole next captain level reiatsu to restore. Unohana says she has captain-level reiatsu. So she used up all her reiatsu, then during Ichigo's fight she healed Hiyori, that was cut in half. That makes so much sense. Look at Inoue. She can heal Ichigo and she is NOWHERE close in terms of reiatsu to him. She can heal his entire reiatsu and heal his every wound. So it pretty much PROVES, that there is a way to heal someone and that someone's reiatsu without using much of a reiatsu. Can you prove, that Medical Kido isn't like that too? Takes perfect control of reiatsu and can heal more while being very "cheap" in reiatsu? Of course it's different than Inoue's power. But you have no proof, that it doesn't use as little energy. You can prove one thing, it is Kido afterall, so it needs at least ONE spirit particle.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    You make no sense. She stated our reiatsu isn't much different. Isn't much different =/= the same amount. This was way before Ichigo even talked about the amount he had. Your theory makes no sense because that would mean Ichigo dpesn't know the reiatsu someone like Unohana or a Captain has. Not only that but you changed up what I actually said... "she uses her own to heal herself" to your blatantly false misrpresentative "call the whole squad" for healing someone else. Leave the arguing to someone that knows how to appropriately discern someone's words.
    Last edited by freshseth83; July 24, 2013 at 04:12 PM.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    You make no sense. She stated our reiatsu isn't much different. Isn't much different =/= the same amount.
    That's why we use "class" after captain, to make it captain-class to show it's the whole tier, not the exact amount. If she had much bigger reiatsu than a captain (like Zaraki, whose reiatsu is much much bigger), she wouldn't dare compare herself to Ichigo's captain-class reiatsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    This was way before Ichigo even talked about the amount he had.
    And how is that even relevant, if I may ask? We're talking mainly about Unohana's statement about his reiatsu, not him saying "Hey, it's a little too much, don't you think? My sleeve... blah blah blah, Inoue blah blah, so it's only a half!". Unohana felt his reiatsu and considered it's ammount captain-class. Now tell me, how Ichigo saying he only had half makes her evaluation wrong? It doesn't, because she was talking about the ammount he had had back then. Next time explain thoroughly what you mean. You're American, you shouldn't have problem with that. I, on the other hand, have to worry about the damn grammar and vocabulary when I don't know how to explain what I have in mind. >.<

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Your theory makes no sense because that would mean Ichigo doesn't know the reiatsu someone like Unohana or a Captain has.
    Yeah, he sucks at controlling reiatsu, using reiatsu and sensing reiatsu, proved throughout the whole manga, is it strange for you? In the Aizen fight he perfected all of it and Kubo just had to show how he improved. Mask your reiatsu completely, come there, sense everyone, say how Yuzu and Karin are ok, take Aizen, still not letting even one spirit particel go to waste, defeat Aizen. Easy peasy. You know what is missing there? Him using a Kido to show how he can USE his reiatsu in any other way than Getsuga. But you know what Kubo did? Made him destroy Kirohitsugi with his barehand to show his badassness instead of him using Kirohitsugi on Aizen himself. That'd be overkill without proper training, right.

    Back to the main topic. He didn't say anything about Unohana, he explicitly said "with reiatsu of a captain". He already should have known Zaraki's, Byakuya's and many other's reiatsu. So you're completely right, Ichigo is an idiot. But saying that Ichigo not knowing that makes my statement wrong is... wrong. Because the whole basis for my statement is taken from UNOHANA'S statement. Ichigo saying he had only half is just addition and has nothing to do with Unohana comparing her reiatsu to a captain-class exhausted-Ichigo reiatsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Not only that but you changed up what I actually said... "she uses her own to heal herself" to your blatantly false misrpresentative "call the whole squad" for healing someone else. Leave the arguing to someone that knows how to appropriately discern someone's words.
    She uses her own to heal herself is the same as "she uses her own reiatsu to heal herself". And by taking your reasoning as a basis I made a statement, that even you consider ridicoulous. Also, whole squad healing Kenpachi was simply ironic, but I'm sure few people would have to spend some time over him, his reiatsu is much bigger than any other captain's, so if you se your own reiatsu to heal wounds AND reiatsu, just imagine how much reiatsu you have to put into healing. Much more than you have in Kenpachi's case. Few people would HAVE TO help. Showing that basis is wrong by proving reasoning from that basis is wrong is pretty normal and I don't know how anyone would consider it "changing what you said". I showed you, that your basis came from wrong assumption and gave you alternative, that could work as well, which would disprove your theory. I don't see a problem there, do you? If so, you can show me how anything I wrote is wrong with rules of discussion. Of course, you may not know those rules, you obviously didn't pay attention on philosophy lessons. Rhetoric is explained thoroughly I guess. Don't tell me you didn't have those lessons. I guess it's a country that should be blamed. Or maybe you just didn't really want to learn more and ended up... like that. Showing you have no idea about proper discussion (and I'm not talking about manga characters that, serious discussions). Even so, you claim I don't know how to discuss properly. Just ridicoulous.

    PS. I guess if you could counter my arguments you would have done so long time ago, but you keep going with made up statements and saying I changed something. If you want proper discussion, discuss, don't bitch about me changing anything when I have done no such thing.

  8. #173
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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    I don't have the desire to respond to your posts. You obviously don't get it. Don't act like I claim something when all the while you're rehashing things I've said you have been guilty of. Thats being hypocritical, and thats why imo your posts aren't worth reading let alone replying to. If you don't get what I mean, I'll explain once more for you...

    Unohana uses her own reiatsu to use kaido on herself... the self healing? That means she has so much of it that she can sustain serious injury and still go on about it after healing herself. That means she has a 'resevoir' of reiatsu just to be able to use this ability. Your comparison to Ichigo is trying to justify why you believe she is like any "captain class" shinigami. I don't get your hang up on the issue. No one but Zaraki is stronger. But not even he has the ability to heal himself. So whatever your gripe is, just save it. Theres nothing to argue over. Ichigo has nothing to do with the amount of reiatsu Unohana has.
    Last edited by freshseth83; July 27, 2013 at 02:48 AM.

  9. #174
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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    I don't have the desire to respond to your posts. You obviously don't get it. Don't act like I claim something when all the while you're rehashing things I've said you have been guilty of. Thats being hypocritical, and thats why imo your posts aren't worth reading let alone replying to. If you don't get what I mean, I'll explain once more for you...
    Firstly, prove anything you say, don't write nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Unohana uses her own reiatsu to use kaido on herself... the self healing? That means she has so much of it that she can sustain serious injury and still go on about it after healing herself.
    So there is your first assumption, that you can't really prove: Kaido requires reiatsu to heal/restore reiatsu. If your proof of her reiatsu is she can move her hand after being cut to heal herself, then I can only laugh. So nowadays not being one-shotted speaks highly of ones reiatsu? Fascinating!


    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    That means she has a 'resevoir' of reiatsu just to be able to use this ability.
    Which is assumption, because you don't know if reiatsu is required to use kaido and if reiatsu that is used is high enough to make ANY difference.
    The third assumption is, that using kaido makes your reiatsu high. If so, then everyone in Squad 4, that is, by the way, considered THE WEAKEST AND MOST USELESS IN BATTLE squad, should have OUTSTANDING reiatsu to heal someone. But it's not like that. Using Kaido doesn't mean having big reiatsu. 4th Squad is a squad of outcasts without reiatsu, talent and abilities. Those without reiatsu are being made into healers. Which makes your theory a crap basically.

    The only thing we know is Isane has formidable reiatsu.


    Quote Quote:
    Your comparison to Ichigo is trying to justify why you believe she is like any "captain class" shinigami. I don't get your hang up on the issue. No one but Zaraki is stronger. But not even he has the ability to heal himself. So whatever your gripe is, just save it. Theres nothing to argue over. Ichigo has nothing to do with the amount of reiatsu Unohana has.
    Oh, you got it finally! Ichigo is NOT relevant there, just Unohana's statement, that captain-class reiatsu he had is similar to hers. I NEVER said, she is captain-class Shinigami. I just said, that her reiatsu is captain-class. Reiatsu and it's control is one of 5 factors. There is zanjutsu, reiatsu, hakuda, kido and shunpo. If you think that reiatsu is the most important, you're just wrong. Soifon uses Shunko and her reiatsu isn't anything special. Why would using a Kaido be a factor, if Shunko isn't?

    And I told you at the beggining, prove something...
    Last edited by Duniak; July 27, 2013 at 05:24 PM.

  10. #175
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conn-man's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Kenpachi and urahara have been fighting for a while now...is the next round comming soon?

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Figured Urahara would win. Lets see how Ichigo vs Unohana turns out.

  12. #177
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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    I guess it's a bit too late but I'll mention it anyway in case the same subject comes up in the next fight, I don't have any problem with Urahara using his portable gigai or reiatsu cuffs in tournament fights. Even if reiatsu cuffs is a device, it can be considered standard equipment Urahara carries and uses in any fight if necessary unlike Yoruichi's armor which was used under special circumstances against a known enemy and isn't a part of Yoruichi's normal fighting routine. I don't think reiatsu cuffs is an instant "game over" against cautious opponents who may avoid it but nonetheless Urahara is an intelligent and tricky person and surely makes things as tough as possible for his opponents.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Didn't Urahara develop those cuffs specifically for Aizen? And didn't he say he only made one of them? I disagree with it being "standard equipment", but obviously others feel differently.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Didn't Urahara develop those cuffs specifically for Aizen? And didn't he say he only made one of them? I disagree with it being "standard equipment", but obviously others feel differently.
    He developed it for Aizen. And he NEVER said he made one of them. And it's not really relevant, as it's a technique, proved beyond reasonable doubt, confirmed by Aizen.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament II - Discussion Thread

    The reiatsu cuffs are a seal. Chapter 402, deicide 4, Urahara describes it as a seal, and also says Aizen was touched twice. Not to mention he had preparation time to ready this sealing technique. These fights aren't the same.

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