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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Ok first off I'm not trying to discourage people from reading Bleach.
But am I the only one tired of constantly hearing a flip flop of
"Bleach is going downhill"
"Bleach is back"
Every so often?
If people don't like Bleach then that's cool. Bleach isn't for everyone. Just like any other series. Personally I rather enjoy Bleach even if it has a few low moments but overall
I've always enjoyed the story arcs. Yes, even the Fullbring Arc. Now I'm not trying
to convince everyone that every story arc is great. That's really up to opinion.
But rather irritates me about Bleach "fans" and this seems to happen a lot more
with this series than other shonen series is that one moment Bleach is "the greatest thing since sliced bread" and the next "worse than trash" and suddenly Kubo is the worse
author of all time and if you read Bleach you have bad taste. But then it goes back
to something they like and all of a sudden it's "Bleach is back." Suddenly it becomes
"cool" to like Bleach again and all kinds of "fans" jump on the Bleach bandwagon.
Now again, I ain't trying to discourage any fans. Even those who changed their minds.
But I ask that you have some P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E while reading Bleach. Have patience
when Kubo has a few slow chapters. Have patience when Kubo trolls. Have patience
when there are no backgrounds. And appreciate Bleach for what it is---a highly
stylized shonen battle manga. People say Bleach is back but really when has Bleach
NOT been about highly stylized shonen battles? EVERY arc Ichigo is either 1. training or 2. fighting. 3. Getting trolled. And he NEEDS to get trolled so he has a REASON to train
and fight. Bleach has NEVER stopped this basic formula. Yes, Ichigo fights different enemies in different places with different techniques and different spices but at the end of the day it's still Bleach. Instead of dropping it like a bad habit every time Kubo does something you don't like try instead waiting to see what Kubo does with it.
Who knows you might actually LIKE it. But again Bleach is not for everyone.
Look back at the old Bleach chapters to the new Bleach chapters. Realize that Kubo
is still Kubo and if you don't like Kubo then chances are you will end up "giving up"
again on Bleach. Of course stories progress and change but there is a certain
signature that no matter what always remains.
Case in point: Yes Ichigo uses getsuga tensho too much but so what?
Are you reading Naruto? I have only been reading 2 long running mangas, this is one, Naruto the other and it is the exact same. Some flip flop with the twist and turns of the story. What is so wrong with that?
I don't understand why so many are so sensitive about how others feel about these story's. Like we are not all individual people with different takes on things.
Sometimes you read a chapter and think it's "not so good", but after a few months (or even years) you read it again and see how that chapter fits perfectly in the context of the series.
It's just impossible to appreciate a paiting if you're too close to it.
I myself don't like this kind of twists in people's opinions.
To be consistent with that, I adopted a single idea about Bleach from day one: I dislike Bleach. This manga is horrible and it cannot get any worse than this.
So, in the end, even the worst parts of Bleach did not disappoint me that much, because I started reading it bearing in mind that it is downright awful.
I'm proud to say my strategy worked.
A good topic, thanks sticky for creating a thread. Just remember, keep it friendly and absolutely no bashing. Whether its another member, an opinion, mangaka or series - be respectful.
I myself don't get why people complain about Bleach so much. Its a great series. Every series has ups and downs. There are chapters that will make you jump and there are chapters that will make you angry. What matters is the overall entertainment the series offer you. Sandan and Bruno said most of what I wanted to say. Let me break it down why I find it a better series:
1. Among the big 3 and many other series, Bleach art has always been great
2. Characters' designs and characters themselves are awesome. I can't remember having so many favorites in one series alone
3. Even without the protagonist, the series never suffer. TBTP arc is a prime example of what I just said
4. Great transformations and techniques (most of them)
5. Plot : itself is never lacking.
6. Great antagonists - Aizen, Ulqi, GJ are only some examples
7. Big bewbs
I can go on but I think you wont be interested. In short, I sometimes find the criticism unjustified. May be its our own expectation, which are not met and we blame the mangaka. For me, I'd quit a series rather than complaining most of the time. Actually I did quit on few series Saint Seiya : The Lost Canvas, Vampire Knight and few weeks back Naruto.
I think that the problem arises when fans, as usual denizens of the net, speak in general...bleach is back, or bleach is better than sliced bread are mostly referring to the current chapter, or if I'm generous then maybe a few chapters in the current arc...
Take my advise as a mod, who had been reading every post of these sections for a long time...comments should be taken with the assumption that it refers to the current chapter, and that's it...if someone is not sure that the comment is general or not, then ask...hence conversations will begin to emerge and people can share their opinions in a much clearer way...but I repeat, the automatic assumption should be the current chapter...
For example I didn't really like the chapter that came out last week...and that's because I thought that Yamamoto's death should've been dealt with in another manner...but I found the current chapter to be exceptional, and that says a lot...and I wouldn't classify this as flip flop, they are just diverging opinions thank to the weekly format of the manga
Last edited by benelori; October 17, 2012 at 03:38 PM.
Kubo is terrible at pacing but you learn to live with it. Yami being the number 1 Espada was the worst twist this series ever had but one I'll have to live with since its canon lol
Beyond that its okay for a shonen, especially a long running one.
bleach rocks- even the chapters that troll me.
I think the pacing the last couple of chapters has been pretty great.
Also when it has been brought up, this place is as good as any. What do you guys mean by trolling chapters or Kubo is trolling? I don't get that, didn't you like what he wrote so hes trolling? Is it a lack of plot consistency(haven't seen much of that since the lack is just a lack of explanation which there still is room for)? Trolling to me is willingly trying to piss some one of on the interwebs by acting or playing silly games.
I think the "trolling" thing could be when something overwrites something that people liked in the story - e.g. people wanted drama and got excited when Hinamori was sliced in half, then she was fixed up just fine, so "trolled"... Or someone displays an awesome performance and people get all excited about the character, then they get pimp-slapped by some random new guy (Yama, for a recent example) either totally overpowered when before they were 'unbeatable' or they seem to "forget" abilities to enable the plot. Basically people get so into a character or storyline that when something unexpected happens like that that it jars them out of it and they call "troll". It actually might speak to the quality of the characters in a weird way if it's at all accurate
Stuff happens like that sometimes though: surely everyone has failed miserably at something they can do at some point, then immediately realised their mistake (facepalm moment) - using the Yama example again, he bankais against Juha thinking "I got this all figured out, screw this guy, burn all the things" then when Juha replies "lulz newb u fail that's not it" he'd immediately think "bugger. What an idiot... If only I'd just used shikai..." *burning facepalm* *dies* In fact that'd probably account for his inability to dodge that ridiculously telegraphed slash; the epic internal facepalm was obscuring his vision, so to speak...
Kubo said himself character is more important than story, no? The awesome artwork is what keeps most people coming back, I'd wager... Comparing it to other mangas with stronger stories compensating for weaker art it might seem empty when there's not much epicness going on, but when Kubo's in full swing it just visually blows everything away and people react with "Bleach is back!" Maybe.
What I see as trolling is doing completely unexpected things, even if it does you some harm. It comes from people calling me a troll, and that's what I do.
In that sense of the word, Kubo is a troll, no denying it. He often brings crazy plot twists, and people are pissed at him for that. But so what, it's fun!
I can certainly appreciate your sentiment, that it can sometimes be exhausting when people relentlessly complain about a series. (Although most of us do our fair share of complaining too, haha.)
But... I don't think that makes someone any less of a fan, because they are still reading it, and still interested in discussing it. If they weren't fans, they wouldn't spend so much time talking about it. It's a very natural thing, to bitch when a series you like kinda loses its luster for a while, but then get excited when the series ramps up again.
Regardless, I'd say everyone posting on the forum is a fan.
Well, what do you expect. Majority of Bleach fans are under 18 and still maturing. Plus, the manga is geared towards younger audiences versus older, so it doesn't surprise me how emotional fans will get over something non-fiction.
And if you don't truly understand the design of Manga itself, you'll get irritated and not realize that all manga really is, is a 17 weekly page version of a sunday comic strip.
You have an overall story, break it down into chapters based on scenarios and build interests around that to tell your story.
For example, this week's chapter was mainly about Ichigo arriving in Soul Society and being pushed into a state of mind that's he never reached before. Hence the convo with Byakuya and the title of the chapter. When you put 8-10 chapters into a volume, you have a full act of a story or "scene". And Kubo, has a way of writing the manga that works for Bleach and the business itself.