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Thread: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama <3

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Question do we know exactly what Madara ment by he took DNA or "Cells"...did he take some of Hashiramas blood...or a piece of his flesh?
    Well, maybe a piece of his middle finger while hashirama making this pose (.l.) to madara's face.

    Kidding aside, we seen hashirama's bloody face. So madara must hurt him. And collected some of hashirama's blood after their fight.

    Kabuto just created his fusion body through the blood he collected to Karin, jugo and suigetsu. So yeah. Maybe madara did the same.
    When i claimed that minato knows Kage Bunshin, They said that I'm wrong.
    When i claimed that minato is a sage mode user, they said that I'm delusional.
    When i claimed that minato can extend his chakra arms and can activate BM, they said that I'm ridiculous.
    Seriously, Who's "wrong", "delusional" and "ridiculous" now?

  2. #32
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member synapse's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Question do we know exactly what Madara ment by he took DNA or "Cells"...did he take some of Hashiramas blood...or a piece of his flesh?
    Obvious mystery. Isn't there a thread on this? There are a few issues with this.

    - We know in Narutoverse bodies are disposed with great care as they are considered state secrets. Why didn't Konoha ensure this in the case of Madara or more importantly Hashirama's DNA, limb, blood whatever that was left over at VOTE.

    - Hashirama and Madara being the god-like shinobi would not allow themselves to be killed or have their limbs taken away easily. So I am guessing these two events happened together. Madara decided to trade a "fatal shot" to himself in exchange for a limb from Hashirama.

    - Most likely there will be the gigantic Gedo Mazo asspull. This asspull will put to rest all questions like how did Madara grow a ginormous tree with a teeny piece of flesh, why didn't Hashirama's kids or grandkids do anything special etc etc. We have already had a peek at this :

    And this is how I am growing Hashirama cells

    So the real hax is not just hashirma cells but hashirama cells + Mazo
    Last edited by synapse; October 23, 2012 at 05:15 AM.

  3. #33
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Question do we know exactly what Madara ment by he took DNA or "Cells"...did he take some of Hashiramas blood...or a piece of his flesh?
    According to this chapter, he took Hashirama's flesh and used it as his flesh to heal his wounds, so he had Hashirama's cells on his chest.


    Though, how did Madara survive if even Hashirama thought he was dead?

  4. #34
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member synapse's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    According to this chapter, he took Hashirama's flesh and used it as his flesh to heal his wounds, so he had Hashirama's cells on his chest.

    Though, how did Madara survive if even Hashirama thought he was dead?
    This had me thinking about what Senjus do to counter Genjutsu?

  5. #35
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Same thing Orochimaru did, but quicker? So far, only Itachi has shown great skills in genjutsu. Most other Uchiha may not have used genjutsu as much or weren't that good at it. Despite what people think, Uchiha genjutsu is breakable.
    Last edited by M3J; October 23, 2012 at 10:41 AM.

  6. #36
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member synapse's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Same thing Orochimaru did, but quicker? So far, only Itachi has shown great skills in genjutsu. Most other Uchiha may not have used genjutsu as much or weren't that good at it. Despite what people think, Uchiha genjutsu is unbreakable.
    is breakable you mean?

  7. #37
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Typos ftw! BUt yeah, that's what I meant. Hashirama could definitely break out of and use genjutsu, unless Madara never used genjutsu. Though, I don't think Madara was able to use genjutsu on Hashirama to trick him into thinking Madara died, if Tobi's words are anything to go by.

  8. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Yes it is. Healing power of hashirama isn't what makes him a legend. Madara and kabuto clearly stated that hashirama's caliber is entirely on different level even for madara himself.

    So, just accept it. Hashirama is much more superior to madara. We don't know anything about their fights, but madara clearly admitted that only hashirama can stop him and his perfect susanoo. So, do you honestly believe hashirama can stop perfect susanoo by his healing power? It doesn't make any sense.
    I have no idea what you're even talking about. On the other hand, much more superior is a huge and gross exaggeration. No statement like this in the manga aligns with yours. Also, I never even suggested that Hashirmama isn't a legend. Where are you getting this from? I only implied that other than his healing techniques, they were neck to neck. Look at his condition after the battle:

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/568/7

    Doesn't look like someone who is vastly superior to me. Healing techniques allowed Hashirmama to constantly heal himself, whereas Madara only tired himself out. You don't think this is a deciding factor in the battle of that caliber? It's a monstrous advantage. The ultimate deciding factor between victory and defeat. Whether you agree with it or not, is your own opinion.

  9. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by shahdan View Post
    I have no idea what you're even talking about. On the other hand, much more superior is a huge and gross exaggeration. No statement like this in the manga aligns with yours. Also, I never even suggested that Hashirmama isn't a legend. Where are you getting this from? I only implied that other than his healing techniques, they were neck to neck. Look at his condition after the battle:

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/568/7

    Doesn't look like someone who is vastly superior to me. Healing techniques allowed Hashirmama to constantly heal himself, whereas Madara only tired himself out. You don't think this is a deciding factor in the battle of that caliber? It's a monstrous advantage. The ultimate deciding factor between victory and defeat. Whether you agree with it or not, is your own opinion.
    You just said, without his healing power, hashirama can't win against madara.
    Honestly, you just sound as if the reason why hashirama defeated madara is just because of his healing power.

    I've been reading that kind of arguments for quite some time now,

    It's like

    If nagato doesn't have the rinnegan his useless.
    If minato doesn't have his hiraishin his useless.

    I mean, what's wrong if hashirama has an amzng healing power? It's part of his caliber.

    And what do you think of madara's perfect susanoo? It's also a monstrous advantage of him.

    The ultimate healing power or the ultimate shield?

    the ultimate deciding factor between the two?

    Both of them.
    When i claimed that minato knows Kage Bunshin, They said that I'm wrong.
    When i claimed that minato is a sage mode user, they said that I'm delusional.
    When i claimed that minato can extend his chakra arms and can activate BM, they said that I'm ridiculous.
    Seriously, Who's "wrong", "delusional" and "ridiculous" now?

  10. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    You just said, without his healing power, hashirama can't win against madara.
    Honestly, you just sound as if the reason why hashirama defeated madara is just because of his healing power.

    I've been reading that kind of arguments for quite some time now,

    It's like

    If nagato doesn't have the rinnegan his useless.
    If minato doesn't have his hiraishin his useless.

    I mean, what's wrong if hashirama has an amzng healing power? It's part of his caliber.

    And what do you think of madara's perfect susanoo? It's also a monstrous advantage of him.

    The ultimate healing power or the ultimate shield?

    the ultimate deciding factor between the two?

    Both of them.
    You misinterpreted my post then, because I never even implied that he shouldn't have his healing techniques.

    ---------- Post added at 04:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Quite honestly (and I had this personal opinion on the matter even before I knew about Hashirama's regeneration), but I think he won by outlasting Madara.

    MS is well known to be incredibly chakra draining. Not only can Hashirama regenerate, but he can create a forest worth of steel-hard wooden defensive structures to protect from Susanoo weapons and Amaterasu, AND he had regenerating clones, AND he had the ability to subdue Kurama (which likely took hella chakra for Madara to both summon AND control).

    I think Madara just threw everything he had at him until he got tired.
    I am pretty sure Madara had EMS.

  11. #41
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    ^He did, but I didn't mention otherwise because it's yet to be confirmed that EMS effects the chakra drain caused by MS techniques. Or strengthens MS techniques for that matter. There was no real reason to differentiate.
    Last edited by ninjabot; October 23, 2012 at 08:21 PM.

  12. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    ^He did, but I didn't mention otherwise because it's yet to be confirmed that EMS effects the chakra drain caused by MS techniques. Or strengthens MS techniques for that matter. There was no real reason to differentiate.
    I am positive EMS reduces stress factors on the body. The original stress factor was due to MS level techniques drawing immense chakra out of the body, ultimately reducing the stamina. Remember when Sasuke first removed the bandages? He erected an improved sussano and used Amatersu but was leisurely walking as if nothing happened. If he had used MS, his eyes would have bled and putting up a sussano would have only put additional burden on his body like we saw when he had MS.

    Even during his fight with Kabuto, he doesn't seem tired even after using sussano for a long time. I believe the term 'Eternal' is a metaphor for techniques as well; breaking the barriers of MS? That's just a hypothesis though, but as EMS is the pinnacle of sharingen, I could not be so far off.

  13. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by shahdan View Post
    I am positive EMS reduces stress factors on the body. The original stress factor was due to MS level techniques drawing immense chakra out of the body, ultimately reducing the stamina. Remember when Sasuke first removed the bandages? He erected an improved sussano and used Amatersu but was leisurely walking as if nothing happened. If he had used MS, his eyes would have bled and putting up a sussano would have only put additional burden on his body like we saw when he had MS.

    Even during his fight with Kabuto, he doesn't seem tired even after using sussano for a long time. I believe the term 'Eternal' is a metaphor for techniques as well; breaking the barriers of MS? That's just a hypothesis though, but as EMS is the pinnacle of sharingen, I could not be so far off.
    i thought "Eternal" just ment that it will never lose its light
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

  14. #44
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    i thought "Eternal" just ment that it will never lose its light
    I don't think so. It is one of the facets yes, but look how Perfect Sussano can only be achieved with EMS. Not to mention the barriers of stress are gone with MS and the hidden technique we have yet to see. It's just hypothetical of me, but I believe there is more to this word than that.

  15. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jalix's Avatar
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    Re: Izanagi definitely saved Madara from Hashirama

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    From the looks of it, Madara never used Izanagi otherwise he wouldn't have been injured to the point of death. Madara did not use Izanagi otherwise Nagato wouldn't have had two Rinnegan. Even if you can't see it on NAGATO, you can see his paths having two eyes. Based on Tobi using the Rikudou jutsu, the paths have the same eyes as their owner, either two Rinnegan or Rinnegan and Sharingan. From this, we can conclude Nagato did have two Rinnegan.
    I really do think Madara could have used Izanagi. It was said in the manga that using the jutsu would result in blindness. But now there seem to be all sorts of qualifications surrounding this. And with the 'introduction' of Hashirama's dna to both Madara and Obito, it seems that Hashirama's cells just may play a convenient role in how/why he could have used it.

    Danzou lost the ability to use the eye after using Izanagi and Obito mentioned it was imperfect, though he trued to take advantage of Hashirama's dna. Obito used it with a sharingan in his left eye, and it went blind. But what if you wouldn't go blind in that eye if you had the EMS AND Hashirama's DNA?

    Point is, I can see Kishimoto changing the rules in order to make Obito, Madara or Sasuke 'special' in comparison to others. He can come up with some sort of exception to the rule that will allow someone like Sasuke use the jutsu without going blind. Like... maybe Sasuke and Madara can use it without going blind becasue they have the "Eternal" MS, which helped them to not lose the light to

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