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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Who would win between these two Hunters? I chose these two because their abilities are perhaps the most versatile and adaptable to situations/enemies they encounter. In fact both of them say that it doesn't matter if their abilities are known because of how they can use it.
So Bungee Gum or Deep Purple?
Deep Purple since it has better range
Hisoka would win because he's more popular, and Morel will say something like 'My abilities aren't really geared to combat anyway', despite he was hand picked on a team that was fighting for the survival of humanity.
Realistically Morel should win very easily but even Togashi is not immune to powering up popular characters for no reason whatsoever.
Well the question here it how is Morel going to finish off Hisoka. Anything he hits him with His Pipe, Fist or Feet he's gonna get Bungee Gum'd and Hisoka from there is gonna pummel him. I don't doubt that Morel is pretty strong physically but His Smoke clones aren't strong enough Imo to take out Hisoka and Hisoka get ride of them using his cards....I think it'll be a long battle Hisoka will have to Bungee Gum his feet and strike from all over...But I don't see Morel really coming out of this the victor.
The good thing about Deep Purple is that it's smoke...So adding gum wont work, since smoke can change its shape easily.
People seem to fail to realize that Hisoka's ability is a standard 'pick on the weak' ability. Against someone who is physicall stronger it's literally a detriment (that person can pull Hisoka instead of the other way around) and against someone of equal strength it's pretty much a draw (they wouldn't be able to pull each other). And no an experienced user isn't going to have his face accidentally stickied from range because when applied from range, Hisoka's move travels like a standard aura projectile which means if the enemy can't dodge that you can blow them up with an aura blast. Similarly even as an additional side effect on punches, it's not going to land in any vulnerable area (like face) because again getting punched in the face probably could get you killed against a strong opponent so these events would almost never happen to begin with.
Morel's clones can beat Pitou's clone which is basically just a guy firing a machine gun randomly. That's not a trivial level of power to deal with. If you get hit by one of those clones, it's going to hurt. It only seems weak because he was fighting Yupi who can shrug off basically any physical attack. Now of course the clones aren't hard to defeat 1on1, but Morel has a lot of clones to use.
You'll also have to use Gyo to see his Bungee Gum because he uses IN a lot in conjuction with it which makes it that much deadlier.
What Clones? You mean the Human soldiers he was using as puppet to fire machine guns...Those guys weren't a big Threat and Morau gave simple orders to his smoke clones to retreat and then attack. Morau's smoke ability isn't an primarily offense ability and we never seen them physically attack anybody. Hisoka can simply spam Bungee gum and attach cards and swing them around all cray whipping out his clones. Hisoka's Bungee Gum as an Offensive ability is just as versatile as Morau's purple smoke defensive/counter ability.Quote:
Without better arguments I can't admit Morel would win because Hisoka is one the strongest guys we've seen in HxH with an versatile hatsu that can lead to many fighter's downfall.
The whole bit about needing to use Gyo to deal with In is a plot convenience. If people are really got surprise by In then you'd die the first time you fight any Emission user because by definition Emission attacks must be hideable with In so you'd just see someone do a fireball motion and you'd get blown up because you can't see their aura blasts.
Likewise it's impossible to stick the bubblegum via touch to any vital area because people use poisoned weapons and some character possess poisonous bite or similarly deadly effects on touch. For example Shalunark's antennae can be considered instant KO on touch, and even if you assume a strong fighter's skin is not easily penetrated by an antennae, there's no way you want to test that. Honestly if you look at an ability like poisonous bite (widely possessed by Ants, can be duplicated by human characters by simplying buying poisoned weapons) that can cause a death even if it landed in a nonvital area so it's considerably easier to use than Hisoka's ability while being more powerful at the same time.
So there's no way Hisoka's ability has any chance of landing on anyone who is as experienced as he is because the condition to land his attack would already cause death if you simply use Emission techs (if ranged) or poison (if melee).
Now you could land it on someone's arm but his ability is useless against someone of equal physical strength (he can't pull the other guy and vice versa). It is actually detrimental to himself if Morel is physically stronger (which is hard to say, Morel is a tier below in affinity but presumably like Razor he starts with higher overall physical stats for being one of the elite Hunters). Hisoka's ability reminds me a lot like One Piece goes into great length to try to explain why rubber is an awesome ability but there is just no possible way you'd pick rubber or bubblegum as your go to ability if you live in a world where you're constantly fighting to the death. Hisoka should be commanded for making good use of the ability he learned, but there's no way it can be more versatile than say, smoke, which is what Morel has.
Now I realize Hisoka retroactively turns out to be one of the most powerful characters in HXH despite the whole notion of him getting a Hunter's license is to get the law off his back (presumably Hunters, hard to see him getting bothered by regular crime enforcement), and Morel retroactively got turned into some guy who isn't even very strong despite having an absolutely crucial role in a fight that determined the fate of humanity. If Hisoko turns out to have overall combined strength (factoring in aura affinity) than Morel then he's certainly shown to be able to press such advantage, but it's just silly to compare a guy handpicked as Netero's left hand in a fight to determine the future of humanity as weaker than someone Netero barely paid attention to in the Hunter exam.
---------- Post added at 04:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 AM ----------
I think one of the biggest failure of HXH in general that's particularly amplified by the Election arc is how the Hunter's Association turns out to be a joke in terms of power which is why we even get these debates in the first place. Originally, they're supposed to be the premier non national entity organization in the world. Ilumi applied for a Hunter's license presumably because this lets him have access to certain areas/info that'd otherwise be hard to get. So we're talking about someone as powerful as Ilumi (who, in the Election arc retcon scale, is probably more powerful than the average Zodiac) taking a test and even obeying rules (i.e. he can't kill Gon because that'd disqualify himself) for the convenience bestowed by the said license. Hisoka, likewise, applied for a license because it allows him to avoid responsibility for killing people.
When Gon and Killua were captured by the Spiders, Feitan asked Nobunaga why didn't they chase after the Chain Assassin, and Nobunaga replied that they can't take the risk because the Chain Assassin has another Pro Hunter level ally. Let's look at who was present at that time:
Assuming the Spiders leave behind one unharmed person to watch the hostages + tend the wounded, that means they could send 2 unharmed members to chase after Kurapika, but they did not pursuit this simply knowing he had another 'Pro Hunter level' ally. Note that this is just Pro Hunter. We're not talking about having a Netero-level ally or even a Zodiac-level ally. Just another Hunter was enough for the Spiders to pause and wait for reinforcements.
Kuroro faked his death to get the Mafia off his back, so we can see that even he doesn't want to have an ongoing war with the Mafia. The Spiders might be the most infamous criminal organization but they don't even want to be continously at war with the Mafia, let alone the Hunter's Association. As an organization the Hunter's Association is unfathomably powerful. After all, they're the ones that have the bounty on the Spiders, not the other way around. Yet by the time the Election arc rolls around it seems like the Spiders could've assaulted the Hunter's HQ head on and win. Yes not every Hunter has to be powerful, but again, we have some rather high bars set by the Hunters from the Spiders themselves: Kurapika + Pro Hunter = too risky to chase with 5 of the Spiders present.
Last edited by Phantron; November 17, 2012 at 03:53 AM.
Why you say so? I think the power are pretty clear.
Temp Hunters sucks, they don't even approved the test. They get their license for specific jobs. The only ones who died were Teradin (Sobs, I'm still sad about that one) and the other two. But no other hunter got killed.
And I'll keep saying that Hisoka ratings are just a way to see how interesting someone is, not how powerful. Which is not the same.
---------- Post added at 09:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 AM ----------
Unless the point is that the Hunter's Association's fighting ability somehow declined drastically under Netero's reign, there shouldn't even be a question on who is stronger. The top Hunters should always be the overwhelming favorites. That doesn't mean they will always win but you shouldn't ever question whether a top member of the most elite organization in the world would be an underdog against someone who is really just a common murderer, and likely a target to be hunted for Hunters if he didn't get his license.
I think Hisoka is more interested on potential, actually. Let's remember that He doesn't find some other spider interesting, but they're indeed powerful. Also, Hisoka doesn't think Gotoh was interesting, yet He was strong (Not enough, but meh)
Also, you can't measure strength by the looks in HxH since Nen makes everything more...well, uncertain.
As a point of reference, Pufu said that if the Hunters had several guys who are as strong as Morel then they could've defeated him.
This is someone who Killua needed to use his borderline hacks power to defeat a clone that possess 1/14 of Pufu's power (clone uses 1/7 of his body, 50% penalty when clone isn't controlled by himself). Note that even prior to this point Killua was instant killing grunt level Ants without the need for any special abilities while the average Spider went through considerable difficulty fighting the same grunt level Ants, not to mention Killua's lightning ability is even more hacks than almost anything so far (no human can possibly survive having your face ripped off and fried by electricity). Pufu said that as long as he has direct control of his clones he should be able to wipe out all the invaders, and that's just 1/7 of his total power (he already gave 6/7 of his body to Meryem), and yet against Morel where he has 100% of his power he believes he can lose if there are several enemies of Morel's tier.
Morel was clearly the guy who contributed the most in straight up fighting (not counting Uber Gon) out of the assault force against a group of opponents who can probably defeat the entire Spiders 1on13, and yet he's being questioned for just a 1on1 when he has done a good job fighting guys who are as powerful as the entire Spiders combined. No he didn't come close to winning but it's unlikely even Netero could've fought any of the Royals straight up as the whole point is that their base stats are far beyond human comprehension and you must have some really cheap special ability to deal with them.
---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------
Uncertainty doesn't mean you just throw out all the preparation and hope Togashi liked you more than the other guy you're fighting. Killua once said that while no outcome is certain in aura combat, a fight you can win 1% of the time really isn't the kind of odds you want to go for. Morel does his homework in scouting, setting up the field, and no doubt he has a strong physical body too. Yes in the end he counts on his versatility to win but that doesn't mean he skimps out on the preparation.
I do agree with all you said, and that's why I think Morel wins. As I said before.
Hisoka really is more suited for a battle style similar to Gon, just grind it out with his superior physical ability and use his aura abilities as supplement, plus an occasional surprise or two. He is given an endurance of 5 in the sourcebooks and while these are not definitive, it certainly doesn't sound like a reach. Instead Hisoka became some sort of master strategist that uses skill to overcome physical power, despite the fact that he's #3 in the arm wrestling chart on Spiders (and presumably Phinx is Reinforcement). And if Hisoka is a master strategist what does that make Kuroro, who is clearly physically weaker than Hisoka? Is Kuroro supposed to be the Sun Tzu of aura combat given he obviously starts with a significant physical deficit against an alleged master strategist?
No matter how much Togashi attempts to make bubblegum sound like an awesome power, in the super power lottery you got to be crazy to pick bubblegum over smoke (Morel) or lightning (Killua).
Umm no it's extremely possible to stick his Bungee Gum trough physical contact he explains it to Gon that's why he doesn't care much about revealing his technique. His aura is also tendril like so if your not informed about his Hatsu you can get caught pretty easily if not using Gyo. Hisoka doesn't have to connect his BUngee Gum fro you to him. He can trap you on the floor or bind your limbs....Also Somebody's neck or single leg muscle isn't going to over power him,you'll also be busy not trying to get pulled which leaves you open to attack.Quote:
Didn't Kurro using a Bhenzin knife that 0.1 grams or milligram can kill a Blue Whale and Silva simply squirted it out and tied his arm with an hair..Didn't Ponzu wake up from ZanZan poison sting because he was a Nen user not a Pro eithe but got caught by Pitou trying to escape....Nobody has been introduced with a poison touch and Morau doesn't have that ability we're talking about MOrau not other ppl. And That Wolf guy was either a Reinforcer or Transmuter to be able to bite into Uvo's skin which he likes to torture Ppl he could have won wit a killing poison.
He would use clever tactics if it was useful to attach it to them. Did he not stop Gotoh's coins and broke his finger but still reflected back Razor's full power volleyball attack. hat also got stuck to his hands leaving him to only be able to attack with a volleyball stuck to his cupped hands, easy to capitalize on that......Again I understand we're debating but lets keep this on what Morau has been shown to be capable of.Quote:
He picked it because he's comfortable with it creating an Hatsu should be personal it makes it stronger. Yes Morau's Smoke for hunting and other evident usage more Versatile. You have to respect Hisoka's usage of his ability and the way he uses it. His aura are tendrils that can stick to you making you his puppet and move the way he wants you to. Gyo usage is a must when fighting him he can connect anything to your body and once it's stuck on you that's it...And he distracts Ppl with his talking..Hisoka is like Joker on steroids with Nen.Quote:
It is what it is can't deny him for being represented by Togashi in such a way. He's obviously one of his favorite Characters. We've seen him rating Pro Hunter's many of them fail to him in comparison unless they are the Zodiac's, Spider's, Z family. He Creme De La CremeQuote:
Blame Partison and his Temp Hunters, who aren't Real hunters meaning they'll probably don't even know Nen. Hisoka and Illumi again are The Best of The Best. They are Killing machines who rank up there with the Zodiac's. Illumi has a Give & Take relationship with his family for reason, disciplining him isn't easy.Quote:
Your going Super off Track now. But I'll replyQuote:
Nobunaga is the only person there besides Hachi who had a broken arm and a wound in her stomach(which aint seem to bother her) that is an combat specialist. The rest were The Spider's backbone for stealing and gathering Info. The Chain user killed Uvo 1 on 1 and with 2 more Pro hunters who would have been slaughtered if chase by them were an unknown variable. Their abilities were completely unknwon the Spiders could have been walking into a trap. It was the right call. Note again Nobunaga only combat force with the Spider's intelligence unit. Too much to risk.
Umm The Z's were hired to kill The Spider's that's too much unwanted attention and Beef they don't want. Umm Chrollo obviously is genius why be hunter forever by the Mafia who what 5-6 Spider's killed 2000 members in a matter of what an Hr or so. They are Thieves and bandits Why would they want The Zodiac's or entire HxH coming down on their heads....Nen abilities can vary nothing good comes of being cocky and feeling untouchable.Quote:
We never knew what it was like before. Times also got more modern There are opening trades of becoming a Hunter requires only so much physical strength. This also depends on a person personal drive and ambitions.Quote:
He was as small as a fly and flying around very fast. Killua didn't compete with any of the Royal family W/O his Haxx ability, it makes him faster and more agile than almost anyone. Netero's prayer is still faster than him Imo...Killua's speed probably was just enough to fight the King evenly for a limited time, doubt he could exchange fist with him but just to be able to fight and react to him.Quote:
What trouble did the Spider's have?? Feitan mentioned by everybody and himself that he was rusty and much faster, Kalluto was astonished by his speed which wasn't his fastest. His only mistake was being late in putting back up his aura agains't that Emission attack. Phinx didn't need a 15 spin on his cyclone more like 7, he blow the ape into pieces and he didn't suffer any damage in that fight. Kalluto toyed around with her target. Shalnurak isn't a combat specialist, didn't know the ant was being controlled had to play his trump card and we seen how strong he was then more ants obliterated in a matter of seconds... Vacuum chick easily analyzed the Ant/SPider's butt twitching,speed of web and distance and struck him a few times and sucked out his blood..Other dancing dude didn't get hurt and left a Huge ass crater in the ground......Did I mention Kalluto saying that they all were toying around..Only Feitan got hurt because ZanZan was a commander, Rusty in a decent battle and she was a Enhancer who he wasn't physically stronger than why his arm broke....Also ain't Morau have trouble agasin't Ant commanders? Beat Chettah because he's stupid and was using newly created Nen abilities and being cocky, Morau states he would have been trapped in his Nen ability and Leol downfall was flooding the church they fought in and got carbon dioxide poison...Stop trying to Shit on the Spider all of them were playing around besides Rust ass Feitan who was still up agains't a decent opponent.Quote:
Your gettin side tracked to much which is why i'm going to point out what Uber Gon has to do within this thread?? Morau did the most fighting the Ants not the Royal Guards. Because he lost a psychological battle with Pufu and released his Smoke Jail failing his mission to keep him away from the King....Netero or any other Human being beside's Uber Gon can produce as much Nen as the Royal Family did....However Netero could have beaten them in my book. The Guards aren't stronger than the King and Pufu pre-fusion with the King wasn't smarter than him either. None of the Guards would have found that 1/100k opening in Netero's Emission attack. The King had the durability to survive thousands and thousands of attacks moving in ways to make Netero attack with moves he doesn't favor in order to find that opening. He also felt pain from being attacked so many times and was ravaged by Zero Bhudda attack...Togashi made the king wayyyyy to strong even before his fusion with the guards.Quote:
Gon's nen was sealed but it was explained he was producing way more than 20k, he had his anger built up inside him waiting to explode it on Pitou who Morau told Gon to threat him like the enemy. With an little vision Gon exploded with anger..Nen is affected by emotional state and determination. I believe Gon before going Uber could have Hit Pitou with an Attack he would have felt even if just a little bit.Quote:
Hisoka doesn't have a 1% chance to win they are both Pro Nen users. Hisoka can sticky Morau's feet, His Pipe in a unfavorable position even over his pipe's top trapping his Nen smoke ability, Strap a boulder to sling shot into his back, head....His Puppet's are dispelled once attacked.......Morau is more versatile we've seen this with him breathing under water creating more than 1 smoke channel to fill up the room, replacing himself with clones of himself...In a straight up fight how many deep purple clones can he create while they are being dispelled? How does he counter a dashing Hisoka who Gotoh couldn't track? How does he counter items sling shooting at him as only mere distractions? Both him and Hisoka are gonna have to use Gyo to see hidden Nen attacks......Hisoka is just as much a pro Nen users as Morau....Morau just has more usage for his Nen not for battle purposes however.Quote:
O him an Novu were Netero's most trusted comrades and started the mission with him so they were going to finish it..Novu is a Puss as we all know. Zodiac members are obviously stronger and i'm referring to the battle member's not Pityon....Nen is not strictly used for battle it's used for abilities personal to it's user it could be used for something extremely personal like Biscuit's Hatsu or something very versatile.