Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/11/14 - 8/17/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 592 by BadKarma , Gintama 506 (2)

View Poll Results: Were Senju necessary?

Voters
20. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    9 45.00%
  • No

    7 35.00%
  • Uchihas are superior either way, why bother?

    4 20.00%
New Reply
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41

Thread: Were Senju necessary?

  1. #1
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,703
    Post Thanks / Like

    Were Senju necessary?

    With the last chapter ( for future information, 606 ) we've got the confirmation that Uzumaki = Senju in inheritance, meaning that, bluntly, Senju are relegated even more in the trash can as they already were ( I mean, you have a bunch of Sharingan-wielding Uchihas and you only have 1 Mokuton user? ).

    Senju's worth was, up until now, basically having the Younger Son's body and pure inheritance, while Uzumaki were basically "distant cousins", very much like one can assume Hyuugas are for Uchihas.

    With this last piece of information though, I can't help but feel how useless Senju are portrayed by the author, almost like they were just stuffed there to make a connection that wasn't with Naruto, for reasons unknown ( since Naruto and Sasuke are compared to Hashirama and Madara since part 1 ).

    Objectively, Uzumakis have received the gifts Rikudou bestowed upon his Younger Son, while Senju don't have shit.
    Let's compare the two:

    Senju
    -Bigger than average chakra reserves
    -Talent

    This basically makes them equals to non-Sharingan Uchihas ( remember Sasuke? Above average chakra reserves and outstanding talent ), which makes them good, great ninjas, but nothing more.
    Hardly someone discending from Rikudou Sennin.

    Now let's take a look at Uzumakis:
    -Bigger than average chakra reserves ( Naruto, Nagato, Kushina, Mito )
    -Incredible longevity/vitality
    -Incredible stamina
    -Special kind of chakra ( Karin, Naruto, Kushina, Mito )
    -Body capable of withstanding and housing tailed beasts ( Naruto, Kushina, Mito )

    Uzumakis have basically the body of the Sage:
    great chakra pools, incredibly resilient and with great longevity, and also capable of housing tailed beasts, just like Rikudou did in the past with Juubi.

    If we want to compare the two lineages, a fully matured Uchiha can, by all means and purposes, be equal to a fully matured Uzumaki, while a fully matured Senju wouldn't have a thing on either of these two.

    This is even more true if we take into consideration special powers:
    Uzumakis make perfect Jinchuurikis while Uchihas can awaken their Mangekyo, while Senju are left with nothing.

    tl;dr basically Kishi could've given Senju all of Uzumaki's redeeming features without the sealing jutsus, and made Naruto just a "normal" kid.
    Or, if he wanted to link Naruto to Rikudou by force, just make Uzumakis the originary clan and let Senju be known for what they theorically are, the Younger Son descendants.

    This is under the premise that I did not include Hashirama as a standard Senju, since his powers were never found in other Senju and he is, thus, an anomaly, while Uzumakis powers can be traced in all Uzumakis introduced

  2. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #2
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Wonderland 8
    Country
    Bahamas
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,675
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    I think the problem is that he established the Senju as the powerhouse of the ninja world, and then made some special effort to completely ignore them. If we look at the Senjus that we know anything about, they've been pretty impressive. The Senjus that we've seen in action are Hokages, so at the moment the average Senju is slightly more impressive than the average Uchiha, assuming that you include the individuals that got slaughtered in the Uchiha Massacre. I think the poblem is that we don't know what the level of talent attributed to the Senju actually is. If it's akin to Tobirama, and everyone was founding new techniques even close to the level of S/T jutsus and ET, then I guess they'd deserve a lot of credit. If they were Tsunade status in terms of endurance, then they'd deserve a lot of credit. We just don't know what the average Senju was capable of. And I honestly doubt that we're going to find out. In terms of battle prowess it's difficult to tell how useful they are/were, in terms of the plot....they are in fact completely useless.

  4. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    706
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    if Hashirama himself count as whole representation of Senju; then yes. but it was made very clear that Hashirama was an unique case and in recent chapters, it has been shown that Uzumaki clan and Senju clan are "almost" same. so, truth to be told, Senju clan is quite irrelevant. if Hashirama stood out as no-clan person, the story wouldn't have been much different. thus taking the Senju's necessity even further down.
    Last edited by darkprince0521; October 18, 2012 at 06:55 AM.
    Naruto Forever


  5. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  6. #4
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,703
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    I think the problem is that he established the Senju as the powerhouse of the ninja world, and then made some special effort to completely ignore them. If we look at the Senjus that we know anything about, they've been pretty impressive. The Senjus that we've seen in action are Hokages, so at the moment the average Senju is slightly more impressive than the average Uchiha, assuming that you include the individuals that got slaughtered in the Uchiha Massacre. I think the poblem is that we don't know what the level of talent attributed to the Senju actually is. If it's akin to Tobirama, and everyone was founding new techniques even close to the level of S/T jutsus and ET, then I guess they'd deserve a lot of credit. If they were Tsunade status in terms of endurance, then they'd deserve a lot of credit. We just don't know what the average Senju was capable of. And I honestly doubt that we're going to find out. In terms of battle prowess it's difficult to tell how useful they are/were, in terms of the plot....they are in fact completely useless.
    The problem is, they are good, great ninjas, but they aren't even close to what a descendant of Rikudou Sennin would be like.

    You see Uchihas ( Sasuke, Itachi, Shisui, Obito ) that would completely put to shame every great Senju introduced ( Tobirama, Tsunade ), you see individuals that greatly improved what Tobirama did ( Orochimaru, Kabuto ).
    The paradox is that Tsunade, a Senju, is inferior to two nobodies ( in name at least ) like Orochimaru and Jiraiya, as a Sannin.

    Point being, an average Senju isn't neither Tsunade nor Tobirama level, and even then those three never showed any special gift.
    And even special Senju aren't all that, in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    if Hashirama himself count as whole representation of Senju; then yes. but it was made very clear that Hashirama was an unique case and in recent chapters, it has been shown that Uzumaki clan and Senju clan are "almost" same. so, truth to be told, Senju clan is quite irrelevant. if Hashirama stood out as no-clan person, the story wouldn't have been much different. thus taking the Senju's necessity even further down.
    Exactly my point.
    If Kishi truly would've thought this through and/or wanted Senju to have a modicum of respect, he either would've spread Mokuton or made Sharingan as rare as Mokuton.

  7. #5
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    897
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    I dunno, if it's about power then not many from the Uchiha were all that and a bag of crisps either. We have some guys, Itachi, Sasuke, Madara, Obito and possibly Shizui. Other then that what have we in that clan? Hell Sasori had a Uchiha puppet. There are some geniuses and the rest are average, even with the sharingan.
    It feels like both clans have been diluted, watered down to become pretty average.
    I do feel like the Senju part of power though was something not intended to be what it became to begin with. We have this godly shinobi in Hashirama with cells that cure anything and everything and yet he didn't manage to edo Tensei an old Sarutobi. With what we know now Hashirama alone should be able to destroy everyone on that roof with no trouble.
    It feels like an after thought, the manga was much more focused on Sasukes lineage and the Uchihas and it feels like Kishi is trying to bring in the Senju late to jin and jang the story and fill in the gaps.

    So while posting and contemplating this as the same time......no, they were not, except for the plot point Hashirama might as well have been a hermit and the Uzumaki could have been their own clan.
    Meh

  8. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Country
    Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,705
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    The problem is, they are good, great ninjas, but they aren't even close to what a descendant of Rikudou Sennin would be like.

    You see Uchihas ( Sasuke, Itachi, Shisui, Obito ) that would completely put to shame every great Senju introduced ( Tobirama, Tsunade ), you see individuals that greatly improved what Tobirama did ( Orochimaru, Kabuto ).
    The paradox is that Tsunade, a Senju, is inferior to two nobodies ( in name at least ) like Orochimaru and Jiraiya, as a Sannin.

    Point being, an average Senju isn't neither Tsunade nor Tobirama level, and even then those three never showed any special gift.
    And even special Senju aren't all that, in the end.



    Exactly my point.
    If Kishi truly would've thought this through and/or wanted Senju to have a modicum of respect, he either would've spread Mokuton or made Sharingan as rare as Mokuton.
    i always thought the Senju were famous because they knew thousands of jutsu and were masters in all skills (ninjutsu,taijutsu,genjutsu)...where they also called Senju of a thousand hands.....so it was not the Mokuton that made them famous....it was just a rare bloodline trait(i also believe most of the blood line limits came from the senju clan)
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

  9. #7
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    278
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    i always thought the Senju were famous because they knew thousands of jutsu and were masters in all skills (ninjutsu,taijutsu,genjutsu)...where they also called Senju of a thousand hands.....so it was not the Mokuton that made them famous....it was just a rare bloodline trait(i also believe most of the blood line limits came from the senju clan)
    I would agree. There is more diversity of jutsus among senjus than among Uchihas or Uzumaki.

    Uchiha use fire techs and sharingan techs. Sasuke seems to be a fan of lightning too. But thats it.

    Uzumaki seem to have body related kekkei genkai, but havent demonstrated skill with a lot of jutsu except sealing spells. Besides with the possible exception of Karin they seem to be hyperemotional and impulsive.

  10. #8
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    30
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,927
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Yeah i have to say that i have NO idea how Senju could deal with the Uchiha's if the last had multiple MS users... There is just no way... Madara and Hashirama canceled one another out so how the hell where the rest of the dudes keeping up with MS users? I would love for a backstory about Uchiha/Senju.

    Perhaps they had only basic sharingan (aside from Madara and his bro) but that does not make much sense... Even so i don't see a Senju winning a fight vs a Uchiha with 3 tomoe Sharingan. The Senju would need to be WAY better if you ask me.

  11. #9
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,703
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    i always thought the Senju were famous because they knew thousands of jutsu and were masters in all skills (ninjutsu,taijutsu,genjutsu)...where they also called Senju of a thousand hands.....so it was not the Mokuton that made them famous....it was just a rare bloodline trait(i also believe most of the blood line limits came from the senju clan)
    They had 1000 jutsus not because they have inherited them, but because they created, stored, exchanged them.
    Hell all Uchiha would need would be someone like Kakashi, memorizing 1000 jutsus.

    Hiruzen knew every jutsu Konoha had, just to name one as well.

    And I did say they were talented, but talent can only get you so far.

    A talented Senju would be no better than a Sharingan-less Sasuke, talented and with more chakra than average.
    Sasuke then would awaken his Sharingan and destroy him

    Quote Originally Posted by offensive bias View Post
    I would agree. There is more diversity of jutsus among senjus than among Uchihas or Uzumaki.

    Uchiha use fire techs and sharingan techs. Sasuke seems to be a fan of lightning too. But thats it.

    Uzumaki seem to have body related kekkei genkai, but havent demonstrated skill with a lot of jutsu except sealing spells. Besides with the possible exception of Karin they seem to be hyperemotional and impulsive.
    If I'm not mistaken they were described as a "savage clan" in the databook

    We don't know how Uchiha did their things, their Katons were the inheritance of the clan, they could copy whatever with their Sharingan.
    Itachi was also a fan of Suiton

  12. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    706
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Uchiha_Blood, from the title "Were Senju necessary?" i thought you are talking about the relevance to the plot. but the discussion is rather focused on strength between uchiha and senju.
    Naruto Forever


  13. #11
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,703
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    Uchiha_Blood, from the title "Were Senju necessary?" i thought you are talking about the relevance to the plot. but the discussion is rather focused on strength between uchiha and senju.
    More than plot relevance, it was about the whole Rikudou Sennin/Sons thing.
    My main point was why neglect Senjus so much in contrapposition of Uzumakis while, theorically, Senjus should be the best of the two

  14. #12
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Uzumaki's are from Senju's bloodline. At least Nagato Uzumaki is from Senju's bloodline as said by Madara. Sooo, yep, they're the same I guess. Ana Uzumaki's clan was known for vitality and seals, Senju for healing abilities and vitality.

  15. #13
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    706
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    More than plot relevance, it was about the whole Rikudou Sennin/Sons thing.
    My main point was why neglect Senjus so much in contrapposition of Uzumakis while, theorically, Senjus should be the best of the two
    that i understood from your posts. i was giving importance on plot relevance.

    anyway, yes. you are right. even the elder son of the sage part seems to be irrelevant.

    strongest of the Senju? Hashirama. but he had unique power which none of the Senju inherited. (but all Uchiha can use it anyway)

    then comes Tobirama. not much is known about his ability. but it is very likely that he isn't stronger than the hax uchihas.

    and Tsunade? compared to the strong ones, she is pretty weak.
    Naruto Forever


  16. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  17. #14
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member katon_style's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    Albania
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    let's put like that and like a puzzle.senju is body and uchiha is eyes and to defeat something very powerful both are needed.ex to defeat the juubi both are needed naruto(body) and sasuke(eyes).kurama stated himselfe also

  18. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,143
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Mito, Kushina, Nagato, Naruto are anomalies too. Mito and Kushina were born with special chakra and thus were selected to be the Kyuubi host. Nagato is blessed with the Rinnegan given to him by Madara. Naruto is just Jesus and can do no wrong. Karin is Uzumaki as well and she is crap.

    The Senjus and Uzumaki's are almost exactly the same thing as they share the same lineage. "Senju" and "Uzumaki" is just a name, like one taking the father's surname instead of the mothers. The genetic traits are still traced to the same Senju before the split. If anything Senjus are even more generally gifted as their clan dominated their era, while the Uzumaki's got wiped out. The only thing Uzumaki's had over Senjus are maybe the longetivity thing. There have only been 3 known Senjus and they are all Hokages, with Hashirama being the most powerful character not including the sage. Its hard to argue that they are not as blessed as Uzumakis as you seem to suggest.

New Reply
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts