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View Poll Results: Were Senju necessary?

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20. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    9 45.00%
  • No

    7 35.00%
  • Uchihas are superior either way, why bother?

    4 20.00%
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Thread: Were Senju necessary?

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    Not completely sure what you're saying about Uzumakis' status, but if you're implying like others before that Senju are closer in lineage to the RS than Uzumaki then its a baseless claim.

    Theres no evidence to say Senju are "directly" descended from the RS and the Uzumaki are a tangential lineage etc etc. Senju and Uzumaki are descended from the younger son of the RS, this is all we can say for sure.
    We have nothing more to go by other than Tobi's view on the lineage. Since we know nothing beyond his anecdote of clans brotherly rivalry, you can't declare this notion false that Madara was being aligned with the older, and Hashirama with the younger son. It's only now the Uzumakis' are being brought or more appropriately squeezed into the picture. The term descendent itself implies a direct lineage or offspring.

  2. #32
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    Theres no evidence to say Senju are "directly" descended from the RS and the Uzumaki are a tangential lineage etc etc. Senju and Uzumaki are descended from the younger son of the RS, this is all we can say for sure.
    It's pretty much confirmed with the whole Senju (Mokuton) Dna + Uchiha Dna = Rinnegan and Rikudou Sennin's power. Wouldn't make much sense for some secondary bloodline to create the original source.

  3. #33
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    :: Senju are kinda dull if you ask me, expect for wood release(exclusive to the first) they got nothing at all and there dont seem to be any around anymore. Maybe they stupided themselves to extinction? ::
    Last edited by babaGAReeb; October 25, 2012 at 01:11 AM.

  4. #34
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member synapse's Avatar
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    It's pretty much confirmed with the whole Senju (Mokuton) Dna + Uchiha Dna = Rinnegan and Rikudou Sennin's power. Wouldn't make much sense for some secondary bloodline to create the original source.
    They are distant cousins, that is all is given. How do you conclude Senju are closer to RS from that information? Any other evidence?

    Hint :



    You can tell Senju is closer to RS than Uzumaki from this map?
    Last edited by synapse; October 25, 2012 at 03:10 AM.

  5. #35
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    They are distant cousins, that is all is given. How do you conclude Senju are closer to RS from that information? Any other evidence?
    it has been stated in the manga.
    Naruto Forever


  6. #36
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    They are distant cousins, that is all is given. How do you conclude Senju are closer to RS from that information? Any other evidence?

    Hint :



    You can tell Senju is closer to RS than Uzumaki from this map?
    The Senju came directly from the Rikudou Sennin like the Uchiha, and the Uzumaki branched off from them. And again, the evidences is that combining Senju Dna with Uchiha Dna recreates the Rikudou Sennin's power.

  7. #37
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member synapse's Avatar
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The Senju came directly from the Rikudou Sennin like the Uchiha, and the Uzumaki branched off from them. And again, the evidences is that combining Senju Dna with Uchiha Dna recreates the Rikudou Sennin's power.
    Branching off from Senju would mean Senju are Uzumaki's ancestors. Manga clearly states they are cousins and thats ^^^ what a cousin map looks like.

    Nobody is said to have RS's power. What gave rise to the Rinnegan was the best of Senju and Uchiha combining (just 2 paths out of the 6).

    Anyway, we have no evidence to state combining Uzumaki and Uchiha will not awake the Rinnegan. In fact going by chapter 606 Senju and Uzumaki are probably equivalent.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c606/16.html

    So you don't have any positive evidence to claim Uzumaki are more distant from RS than Senju.

  8. #38
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    First off, a cousin is anyone who is related but not as a direct ancestor or descendant. A Senju eventually marrying into another clan (Uzumaki) would be them branching off. Secondly, if they were that closely related, then they would have also been that closely related to the Uchiha clan too, yet the implications is that they aren't as connected, meaning the Uzumaki came later on. Thirdly, Kushina described them as being "distantly related".

    The Rinnegan and ability to create something from nothing is the Rikudou Sennin's power, which as mentioned is solely formed by combining Senju Dna and Uchiha Dna. If there was another method to gain the same powers, then everyone wouldn't be after Hashirama's Dna. The entire point is that the two are directly from the Rikudou Sennin's two sons, one step down from the Rikudou Sennin himself.
    Last edited by Rikudou King; October 25, 2012 at 01:41 PM.

  9. #39
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member synapse's Avatar
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The Senju came directly from the Rikudou Sennin like the Uchiha, and the Uzumaki branched off from them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    First off, a cousin is anyone who is related but not as a direct ancestor or descendant. A Senju eventually marrying into another clan (Uzumaki) would be them branching off.
    You gotta pick one theory. In your previous post you said "branching from", and now "branching into". "Branched off from" clearly implies creating a new clan as opposed to mergin with an existing one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The Rinnegan and ability to create something from nothing is the Rikudou Sennin's power, which as mentioned is solely formed by combining Senju Dna and Uchiha Dna. If there was another method to gain the same powers, then everyone wouldn't be after Hashirama's Dna.
    And why call Nagato senju? why give the rinnegan to him?

    Haha, people are after hashirama's dna not because he is senju either. There are plenty of other senjus to pick from.

    You and others before, are taking the Older son - Younger son divide all the way to the present, whereas it was just the first step in dilution of the RS's "paths". Those genetic traits are diluted into an unknown number of clans and there may be other combinations that give rise to the rinnegan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Secondly, if they were that closely related, then they would have also been that closely related to the Uchiha clan too, yet the implications is that they aren't as connected, meaning the Uzumaki came later on.
    this is a circular argument and..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The entire point is that the two are directly from the Rikudou Sennin's two sons, one step down from the Rikudou Sennin himself.
    where did you get the number of steps and "later on" from RS? Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki are present descendents of the Older and Younger sons of RS. How do you know how many steps it took for each of them?

  10. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    We know now for a fact that the Uchiha and Senju clan are like two parts of the same line starting from the sage; as their combined power grants them Rinnegan, the eyes of the sage. That's all the proof one needs.

  11. #41
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Were Senju necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    You gotta pick one theory. In your previous post you said "branching from", and now "branching into". "Branched off from" clearly implies creating a new clan as opposed to mergin with an existing one.
    It's the same thing. Family names are only pasted through the male, whereas the female takes the name of her husband. So a Senju marrying into another clan would make her and her children apart of that clan, even though they would still technically be Senju.

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    And why call Nagato senju? why give the rinnegan to him?

    Haha, people are after hashirama's dna not because he is senju either. There are plenty of other senjus to pick from.

    You and others before, are taking the Older son - Younger son divide all the way to the present, whereas it was just the first step in dilution of the RS's "paths". Those genetic traits are diluted into an unknown number of clans and there may be other combinations that give rise to the rinnegan.
    Because he then held Senju Dna thanks to Madara's eyes and because being an Uzumaki gave him the chakra to handle a transplant. He's the most powerful Senju, and so far the only one we know of besides his brother and granddaughter.

    Unknown number of clans? What clans? There's nothing suggesting that they weren't the Senju and Uchiha clan right off the bat. The history we were told in fact state the opposite, that the two clans and their conflict have remained the same since that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    this is a circular argument and..
    No it's not. Back in the beginning, the Senju and Uchiha clan would have been "closely" related. For the Uzumaki clan to only be related to the Senju side, "X" amount of generations would have had to past before the Uchiha clan was farther away then them.

    Quote Originally Posted by synapse View Post
    where did you get the number of steps and "later on" from RS? Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki are present descendents of the Older and Younger sons of RS. How do you know how many steps it took for each of them?
    Because as mentioned, the Sharingan and Mokuton were directly taken from the Rikudou Sennin The combination of the two basically recreates the Rikudou Sennin, which is the whole plot of the villains.

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