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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
May be or may be not
We can use this thread to discuss anything about Zero Division. Who they are, what they do, who are the members, etc. If I am not forgetting, the only known character who has been associated with Zero Division (ZD), is the former 12th Division captain - Kirio Hikifune.
My number one concern is how strong are they? At least we know that captains can be the members of this division. Does it indicate their strength?
Last edited by thornofcarrion; October 18, 2012 at 02:13 PM.
An entire division of captains or captain level characters, that's pretty cool. I'm wondering a few things mainly, how big is this division. Since captains(or captain level) are essentially a rare commodity...how many people are in this division 15....50...100? Beyond being just a captain, what are the other requirements, like how strong are they...on average Byakuya level or more like Shunsui and so forth. Does this group have a head captain and how strong is he or she, another Yama or even greater...that's hard to wrap your head around.
Having a structure and power-level similar to Gotei 13 doesn't make any sense, does it? I mean, if its similar to Gotei 13, why not have it bigger than creating another division. I always get the feeling that members of ZD are stronger than most of the captains.
I'm expecting them to be around Kyo & Uki level, more or less (~average). Not all strong characters will get there probably, I think a very important factor would be the personality of that certain character. If we would assume that Kyoraku (i.e.) could not cope or agree with the existence of the King or any of other roles 0 Squad has, he wouldn't be chosen.
And yeah, I guess someone needs to mention it first if we're talking Squad 0 - Isshin
LOL at that,didn't know it.So...RG's are charged with slaying Menos Grande !?! It seems rather fishy to me,I mean,in Gotei 13 captains can play with the Menos Grande,they can easily kill them,so RG's should be able to kill Menos Grande with a flick of their hand(Isshin's flick,that is).I would love to know when or where it is said that RG also have this occupation.Quote:
Even if they do recruit captains to their ranks,I highly doubt the RG is composed solely of captains.I mean,it seems that you have to have certain powers/abilities/that little something special that the RG are looking for,because the only known captain to be promoted is that 12th Division captain,Kirio Hikifune,in the TBTP arc,when Shunsui and Ukitake were also part of the Gotei 13,and in my humble opinion,both of them seem powerful enough to join their ranks,especially considering the fact that they've been trained by Yama-jii himself.Yet they were not recruited,even until now.Also,since it is a long time since the TBTP arc,no other captain has been recruited,suggesting that recruiting captains is a rare occasion.Quote:
They might only bolster their ranks with people who possess certain abilities or,in some cases,extremely powerful,since it would make sense,because the Gotei 13 are the first barrier of protection for the Soul King,and if the Gotei 13 is destroyed then the RG are the last barrier of protection for the Soul King,in which case it would be logical for them to be extremely powerful and above the Gotei 13.
I always wondered if that shoulder-piece-haori Isshin has is actually the haori of the RG,that they normally wear.I'd lol if we find out that Isshin is actually amongst the weakest of the RG,and I think that now he lives in the living world because at one point he was forced to use FGT and lost his powers,consequently being thrown out of the RG.But now he managed to regain his powers,though it still is unknown how he did.In fact,there are MANY questions surrounding Isshin.Originally Posted by Darjaille
Last edited by g0dzax; October 18, 2012 at 02:12 PM. Reason: unknown :\
When I was copying it from wikia, I also laughed at it. Even VCs will have no problem with MGs. I think, even some of the seated officers can take them out.
Royal Guards are in charge of protecting the King and they're the last line of defense, so I think they are stronger than Gotei 13 captains on average. I guess there are 10-12 of them and I agree with Darjaille that they are probably around Shunsui and Ukitake's level. I expect their head captain to be around Yamamoto's level if they have one. Ukitake is mostly sick but I believe the reason why Unohana and Shunsui aren't in the ranks of Royal Guards is because they are important for Gotei 13 and it's not wise to remove all experienced captains who may assume the role of a mentor for new captains.
I doubt their are any VC's in the Zero Division. Especially since, they are reserved for the Royal Family of Soul Society. Makes more sense if all the members are Captains.
My thoughts on Zero-
ok- the "squad" known as zero devision, who are they. where are they, why are they, when are they, what are they?
Who: I think they are a group, no more than 15, I suspect 1 person for each division represented in SS. so my guess is 13 of them.
they are dedicated to protecting the king and exist in whatever realm the sprit king resides.
Where: I think that they exist outside normal time, perhaps in a hybernated state. cut off from SS and the human world. If they are awake and actively monitoring things they must get frustrated and bored very often with nothing to do. as we have not seen them communicate once the entire manga.
Why: I think they are there as a final safeguard to protect the spirit king, I think they only awaken when the CC dies. perhaps the life force of the CC is monitored by some sort of tech that deactivates the hybernation if he dies. I think they expect that if the CC dies, then SS is in deep shit. this is why no intervention when Aizen went to town. CC still alive, no need to wake them up.
When: I think they exist outside of time in a hybernated state and in a realm that is mostly cut off from SS and HM and the real world. Not sure what sort of time flow happens there.. could be similar to dangai, like every year of SS is one day there. who knows.
What : they are the best of the best of the best. or not.- it is possible that when the spirit king took the throne and became the spirit king, that they voulenteered to guard him/her/it. perhaps they are the equivalent of ichigos friends.. If ichigo had to go become the spirit king 10000 years ago or whatever, I could see chad and orihime and ishda saying ok we will guard you.
Why the delay now that SS is in ruins? I think its because the CC had to die, for them to get woken up from deep sleep or slumber or something.
How strong are they"?: I think they are tough, but not uber strong. I think they will be like good captain strength. If they were that much stronger Ichigo wouldnt be needed. If they were just like captains that voulenteered to leave SS and guard the king then went into slumber, they wouldnt have been training all this time and I dont expect them to be godly.
I think we will find the stronger they are, the less their numbers will be.
If they are like captain level or just slightly higher, then I expect no more than 2 dozen in all.
I'm pretty sure that the whole "slaying Menos Grande" stuff is mistranslation.
But anyway...their members are strong, this is something that no one can deny. But I want to remember you all that their mission is to protect the Royal Family...but Aizen stated that the "king" as something not someone. Even Matsumoto just said that "SS has a Royal Family", but it's probably the only time we saw the word "family". So I have my doubts that the Royal Guard are protecting the Royal Family. To me they are protecting, but more importantly, mantaining whatever the lynchpin is.
So, this makes being promoted not a benefit, but something you have to do, and abandon all you beloved family friends for the sake of the existance itself.
They could be organised literally like 1 of the divisions, possibly just the seats, and you get promoted to the bottom like entering one of the regular divisions, Isshin's half haori or whatever it is could be a signifier of his place in that squad; imo i reckon he's comparable to their version of 'lieutenant', not entirely sure why
Unless the king is somewhat of a source of power, I don't see how kubo could finish the plot without trolling . I mean juha has now super strengh+ultimate quincy techs + yama's bankai , Ichigo is at a super high level (and will probably become even more powerful + he can go FGT and destroy everything )
So, what's the point of introducing zero squad unless they can shift the outcome of the battle (or at least be competitive ) , they should all be yama's level . But we know they shouldn't be at yama's level, so they must have powered up somehow .
Just my thoughts about the power level of the zero squad
---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------
There is also the ultimate bleach question : Was isshin the zero squad captain commander ?
I wonder if perhaps the Vizards slaying the Menos Grande the way they did is a hint to what makes the Royal guards so powerful. Cause you do have to consider shinigami do have a limited potential, so what exactly can make a Royal guard more powerful than a shinigami of the Gotei 13? The only logical conclusion comes down to perhaps they are granted the power of Vizards to serve under the King. What made Urahra/Aizen's action so heinous was the fact that they were attempting to produce said power outside of the Royal dimension. If people outside the Royal Dimension are able to turn into Vizards then it makes it harder for those chosen to be the Royal Guard to perform their duty, plus if a person with an evil heart gains the powers of a Vizard they become a greater threat to the Royal Guard.
If anything I would compare the Royal Guard to a sort of "god's" angels in the sense they only watch over what's going on, never really involving themselves into a situation unless it's necessary. The reason why the Royal guard themselves didn't step up to kill the Vizards was because even though the ruling had been to execute them, they had no reason to act as long as they didn't see them doing something that they truly deemed unlawful. They allowed Urahara/Yourichi to escape with them, then proceeded to watch over. The other reason why the Royal Guard may have given Urahara a pardon in terms of helping the Vizards escape as well as being able to live in the human world uninterrupted is because of the Captain he replaced. I would imagine that she may have pleaded with the Royal guards/King to allow him to live in peace and that she was the one that elected him to be captain and knew he was a good person, which is why he has been able to get away with as much as he has and been able to live a peaceful life to the point where he was in contact with Rukia, though if she was aware with what had happened way back she should have notified SS about it.Anyways, had the Vizards themselves ever become a threat to the Royal Dimension then they would have acted but since they never did any of the sort and even aided the Gotei 13 against Aizen they felt there was no need to do anything.
It would appear the only time the Royal Guard would truly need to act is once the dimension is open, though this does lead to an interesting question. Does Yamamoto's Bankai ability of the south grant him the ability to make a Royal Key, if the dead aren't just bones but also their souls, then it's very possible that Bach would be able to make a Royal key out of that. I think even though Yamamoto has been killed perhaps the Royal Guard won't act just yet, the way they may act is if the Royal dimension is disrupted in anyway, though ith the mass amount of shinigami deaths this may happen since it could be causing an imbalance between the shinigami and human world. So it is possible that during Ichigo's fight with either Bach/Blondie they may intervene and cause the bloodshed to stop so that the dimension can be brought back to balance before a door to the Royal Kingdom is opened.
My own theory is that the squad zero is in principle structured the same way as a normal division. Basically we have a captain a VC and beneath them a number of seated officers. If they are meant to be a threat as a force then they would need to have a specific number of captain level people. The gotei 13 had 13 captains and 13 VCs in principle meaning a total of 26 warriors worth something. The stern ritern have the letter thing which also equate to just about 26 warriors (although it seems there could be more). The espada had 10 members and each of then had any number of fraccion each of which was in general about as strong as a VC or so. They were perhaps the most numerous group. In this regard if the squad zero has a similar structure to the gotei 13 then they are going to have specifically 1 captain, 1 VC and 18 seated officers all of which will be of captain level or so. I guess the number is a little large however if they are truly a force on their own to match the other organizations we have seen and they follow the same structure as a normal division then 20 captain level shinigami matches perfectly in every regard. More so, the stern rittern do not seem to actually have VC level shinigami, all of their members seem to be capable of fighting at the captain level so far. Ever kirge was able to defeat tres bestias without any special ability of volstandig. Taking in consideration that half the gotei 13 main members are VC level which in principle equates to fodder then perhaps even 20 other captain level shinigami is not too much to take on the stern rittern.
I mean, we have every reason to believe there are at least 27 stern rittern (one for every letter except for Y which has 2). The remaining gotei 13 members worth a damn are soifon, rose, unohana, shinji, byakuya (if he lives), komamura, shunsui, kensei, hitsugaya, kenpachi (if he lives), mayuri and ukitake. Thats at most 12(and potentially 11 or 10) people to take on potentially more than 20 stern ritern with volstandig. Then add secret letters and juha himself and you got the largest group of actually strong people here.
I never heard about the squad zero having menos slaying duties though. Where was this said?
---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------
As far as what would make the RG member strong I would argue it is age. Forming a captain level shinigami seems to take somewhere about 200 years so far. If the RG only takes captains as their members and it does so not very often then what we have is that the average age of the RG should be somewhat larger than the G13. Even among the captains the stronger ones seem to also be the older ones. Shunsui, ukitake, unohana..... The whole talk about limits is relative at this point. Yamamoto was already thousands of years old when he destroyed the quincy and even to his last days he was able to polish his bankai. Basically there is no reason for any of the current captains to not be able to continue polishing their abilities. There is also the consideration that most of the current G13 are relatively young. Byakuya and gin, even though they were geniuses, are at most 200 years old. Hitsugaya is somewhere over 50 or so. Soifon was just a VC 110 years ago. Rose was promoted to captain merely 112 years ago. Basically half the gotei 13 captains don't seem to surpass the 300 years mark. If the RG only takes members sporadically from captains then it would make sense most of then are from shunsui's generation and older. Yama said that no shinigami stronger than him had been born in 1000 years but there is no mention of before him and what the RG was before he came about, for all we know we will see an older more dangerous geezer than yamamoto(it is a tad unlikely though but it would be a bit fun to see someone in a position to call yamamoto "shige-chan").